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Re: [videoblogging] Re: vPIP 1.11 Beta (Ogg support & share video) available

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  • Wil Harris
    I think people want, more than anything, the choice. The thing people hate about DRM is it being forced on them and limiting their fair use rights. I think
    Message 1 of 20 , Sep 1, 2007
      I think people want, more than anything, the choice.

      The thing people hate about DRM is it being forced on them and
      limiting their fair use rights.

      I think that letting content creators choose how to publish their
      content is the way forward. DRM is never going to be a one size fits
      all solution to the problem. At the end of the day, even DRM is a
      tool that is useful to some people and will continue to be in the
      future.

      I would hope that no platform provider takes an absolute stance on
      the issue, but allows creators the freedom to build their content and
      their business model in a way that makes sense for them.

      Wil


      On 1 Sep 2007, at 21:11, Charles Hope wrote:

      > Don't worry, Richard. There's no DRM on our road map. However, your
      > concern
      > about DRM is that it has the unfortunate side effect of impeding
      > your actual
      > target audience. So you seem to be against crude, inexact DRM, and
      > not the
      > ideal type which would only be noticed by violators of the Creative
      > Commons.
      > Perhaps you just want better DRM?
      >
      > Richard (Show) Hall wrote:
      > >
      > > Of course, it may be (though I'm skeptical) that I will thwart more
      > > "criminals" by putting this road block up, but the trade off between
      > > screwing up a "non-criminal's" viewing experience, is not even
      > close to the
      > > advantage of blocking illegal use.
      >
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Richard (Show) Hall
      Charles, I don t really want perfect DRM . First, of course, it s hard to imagine it can be done, since the ones who want to violate it are really good at
      Message 2 of 20 , Sep 1, 2007
        Charles,

        I don't really want "perfect DRM". First, of course, it's hard to imagine it
        can be done, since the ones who want to violate it are really good at
        breaking it. But that's not a real argument, of course, since the "perfect"
        is hypothetical and, in any case, you are infinitely more expert and knowing
        what actually would be possible than me. This does have a practical
        implication, however, in the trade off between how much effort it would take
        someone, even with your skills, to make this perfect DRM, and how much that
        would take away time from all the other great things that you do.

        My deeper objection is philosophical - and really applies more to media that
        is bought (as opposed to what I mae that is free) - it's like, if I purchase
        a digital song, or, especially if I buy a physical device, I think my
        personal property rights are being violated if someone does something to
        degrade that device to stop some other criminal, who is not me.

        I'm sure if I spent more time thinking about it, I can imagine scenarios
        where I wouldn't want this and it's most likely some point on a continuum
        (there's an interesting analogy to gun ownership, that makes me a little
        suspicious of my own arguments), but, by and large I lean strongly away from
        the DRM sort of philosophy.

        ... Richard

        On 9/1/07, Charles Hope <charles@...> wrote:
        >
        > Don't worry, Richard. There's no DRM on our road map. However, your
        > concern
        > about DRM is that it has the unfortunate side effect of impeding your
        > actual
        > target audience. So you seem to be against crude, inexact DRM, and not the
        >
        > ideal type which would only be noticed by violators of the Creative
        > Commons.
        > Perhaps you just want better DRM?
        >
        > Richard (Show) Hall wrote:
        > >
        > > Of course, it may be (though I'm skeptical) that I will thwart more
        > > "criminals" by putting this road block up, but the trade off between
        > > screwing up a "non-criminal's" viewing experience, is not even close to
        > the
        > > advantage of blocking illegal use.
        >
        >



        --
        Richard
        http://richardhhall.org
        Shows
        http://richardshow.org
        http://inspiredhealing.tv


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jay dedman
        ... Here s the real story: DRM doesnt work. companies spend thousands of hours building it, and millions of dollars implementing it. They do it through
        Message 3 of 20 , Sep 1, 2007
          > I think people want, more than anything, the choice.
          > The thing people hate about DRM is it being forced on them and
          > limiting their fair use rights.
          > I think that letting content creators choose how to publish their
          > content is the way forward. DRM is never going to be a one size fits
          > all solution to the problem. At the end of the day, even DRM is a
          > tool that is useful to some people and will continue to be in the
          > future.
          > I would hope that no platform provider takes an absolute stance on
          > the issue, but allows creators the freedom to build their content and
          > their business model in a way that makes sense for them.

          Here's the real story: DRM doesnt work.
          companies spend thousands of hours building it, and millions of
          dollars implementing it.
          They do it through software and hardware.
          Then some 17 year old kids spend a weekend to crack it.

          So Richard's advice for blip to not waste time on DRM is a good one.
          if someone wants something bad enough, they're going to get it.

          We have Creative Commons licenses.
          Its clear...and its about trusting people to be smart and respectful.

          I dont need DRM to lock down my videos.
          Let's say someone grabs my videos and starts making millions of dollars....
          first, I'd be pretty impressed...but then i'd hire a lawyer to take care of it.
          If someone is just being a dick by disrespecting my CC license, Ill
          let the community know.
          ultimately, if someone is a dick and doesnt care about reputation, not
          much i can do.

          But DRM is not for you and me.....DRM is built for business.
          they want to make sure the little people dont get their greasy hands
          on their content.
          everyone is suspect. everyone is a criminal.
          forget creating goodwill with the people who keep them rolling in cash.
          people must be stopped.
          stop.

          jay

          --
          http://jaydedman.com
          917 371 6790
        • Irina
          jay you are SO wrong. its a 12 year old kid, not a 17 year old kid! get your facts right. free john johansen! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Johansen ... --
          Message 4 of 20 , Sep 3, 2007
            jay you are SO wrong.
            its a 12 year old kid, not a 17 year old kid!
            get your facts right.
            free john johansen!
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Johansen

            On 9/1/07, Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...> wrote:
            >
            > > I think people want, more than anything, the choice.
            > > The thing people hate about DRM is it being forced on them and
            > > limiting their fair use rights.
            > > I think that letting content creators choose how to publish their
            > > content is the way forward. DRM is never going to be a one size fits
            > > all solution to the problem. At the end of the day, even DRM is a
            > > tool that is useful to some people and will continue to be in the
            > > future.
            > > I would hope that no platform provider takes an absolute stance on
            > > the issue, but allows creators the freedom to build their content and
            > > their business model in a way that makes sense for them.
            >
            > Here's the real story: DRM doesnt work.
            > companies spend thousands of hours building it, and millions of
            > dollars implementing it.
            > They do it through software and hardware.
            > Then some 17 year old kids spend a weekend to crack it.
            >
            > So Richard's advice for blip to not waste time on DRM is a good one.
            > if someone wants something bad enough, they're going to get it.
            >
            > We have Creative Commons licenses.
            > Its clear...and its about trusting people to be smart and respectful.
            >
            > I dont need DRM to lock down my videos.
            > Let's say someone grabs my videos and starts making millions of
            > dollars....
            > first, I'd be pretty impressed...but then i'd hire a lawyer to take care
            > of it.
            > If someone is just being a dick by disrespecting my CC license, Ill
            > let the community know.
            > ultimately, if someone is a dick and doesnt care about reputation, not
            > much i can do.
            >
            > But DRM is not for you and me.....DRM is built for business.
            > they want to make sure the little people dont get their greasy hands
            > on their content.
            > everyone is suspect. everyone is a criminal.
            > forget creating goodwill with the people who keep them rolling in cash.
            > people must be stopped.
            > stop.
            >
            > jay
            >
            > --
            > http://jaydedman.com
            > 917 371 6790
            >
            >



            --
            http://geekentertainment.tv


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • bordercollieaustralianshepherd
            ... 2007 - 1983 = 24 doh! Jon Lech Johansen (born November 18, 1983 in Harstad, Norway) ... content and ... take care ... cash.
            Message 5 of 20 , Sep 3, 2007
              > jay you are SO wrong.
              > its a 12 year old kid, not a 17 year old kid!

              2007 - 1983 = 24 doh!
              Jon Lech Johansen (born November 18, 1983 in Harstad, Norway)

              :-)


              --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Irina <irinaski@...> wrote:
              >
              > jay you are SO wrong.
              > its a 12 year old kid, not a 17 year old kid!
              > get your facts right.
              > free john johansen!
              > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Johansen
              >
              > On 9/1/07, Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > > I think people want, more than anything, the choice.
              > > > The thing people hate about DRM is it being forced on them and
              > > > limiting their fair use rights.
              > > > I think that letting content creators choose how to publish their
              > > > content is the way forward. DRM is never going to be a one size fits
              > > > all solution to the problem. At the end of the day, even DRM is a
              > > > tool that is useful to some people and will continue to be in the
              > > > future.
              > > > I would hope that no platform provider takes an absolute stance on
              > > > the issue, but allows creators the freedom to build their
              content and
              > > > their business model in a way that makes sense for them.
              > >
              > > Here's the real story: DRM doesnt work.
              > > companies spend thousands of hours building it, and millions of
              > > dollars implementing it.
              > > They do it through software and hardware.
              > > Then some 17 year old kids spend a weekend to crack it.
              > >
              > > So Richard's advice for blip to not waste time on DRM is a good one.
              > > if someone wants something bad enough, they're going to get it.
              > >
              > > We have Creative Commons licenses.
              > > Its clear...and its about trusting people to be smart and respectful.
              > >
              > > I dont need DRM to lock down my videos.
              > > Let's say someone grabs my videos and starts making millions of
              > > dollars....
              > > first, I'd be pretty impressed...but then i'd hire a lawyer to
              take care
              > > of it.
              > > If someone is just being a dick by disrespecting my CC license, Ill
              > > let the community know.
              > > ultimately, if someone is a dick and doesnt care about reputation, not
              > > much i can do.
              > >
              > > But DRM is not for you and me.....DRM is built for business.
              > > they want to make sure the little people dont get their greasy hands
              > > on their content.
              > > everyone is suspect. everyone is a criminal.
              > > forget creating goodwill with the people who keep them rolling in
              cash.
              > > people must be stopped.
              > > stop.
              > >
              > > jay
              > >
              > > --
              > > http://jaydedman.com
              > > 917 371 6790
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              > http://geekentertainment.tv
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Irina
              when he was charged with his crime he was about 12 from what i remember. jon told me his father had to get him from school to take him to court. ... On
              Message 6 of 20 , Sep 3, 2007
                when he was charged with his "crime" he was about 12
                from what i remember. jon told me his father had to get him
                from school to take him to court.
                :)

                On 9/3/07, bordercollieaustralianshepherd <
                bordercollieaustralianshepherd@...> wrote:
                >
                > > jay you are SO wrong.
                > > its a 12 year old kid, not a 17 year old kid!
                >
                > 2007 - 1983 = 24 doh!
                > Jon Lech Johansen (born November 18, 1983 in Harstad, Norway)
                >
                > :-)
                >
                > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com <videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com>,
                > Irina <irinaski@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > jay you are SO wrong.
                > > its a 12 year old kid, not a 17 year old kid!
                > > get your facts right.
                > > free john johansen!
                > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Johansen
                > >
                > > On 9/1/07, Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > > I think people want, more than anything, the choice.
                > > > > The thing people hate about DRM is it being forced on them and
                > > > > limiting their fair use rights.
                > > > > I think that letting content creators choose how to publish their
                > > > > content is the way forward. DRM is never going to be a one size fits
                > > > > all solution to the problem. At the end of the day, even DRM is a
                > > > > tool that is useful to some people and will continue to be in the
                > > > > future.
                > > > > I would hope that no platform provider takes an absolute stance on
                > > > > the issue, but allows creators the freedom to build their
                > content and
                > > > > their business model in a way that makes sense for them.
                > > >
                > > > Here's the real story: DRM doesnt work.
                > > > companies spend thousands of hours building it, and millions of
                > > > dollars implementing it.
                > > > They do it through software and hardware.
                > > > Then some 17 year old kids spend a weekend to crack it.
                > > >
                > > > So Richard's advice for blip to not waste time on DRM is a good one.
                > > > if someone wants something bad enough, they're going to get it.
                > > >
                > > > We have Creative Commons licenses.
                > > > Its clear...and its about trusting people to be smart and respectful.
                > > >
                > > > I dont need DRM to lock down my videos.
                > > > Let's say someone grabs my videos and starts making millions of
                > > > dollars....
                > > > first, I'd be pretty impressed...but then i'd hire a lawyer to
                > take care
                > > > of it.
                > > > If someone is just being a dick by disrespecting my CC license, Ill
                > > > let the community know.
                > > > ultimately, if someone is a dick and doesnt care about reputation, not
                > > > much i can do.
                > > >
                > > > But DRM is not for you and me.....DRM is built for business.
                > > > they want to make sure the little people dont get their greasy hands
                > > > on their content.
                > > > everyone is suspect. everyone is a criminal.
                > > > forget creating goodwill with the people who keep them rolling in
                > cash.
                > > > people must be stopped.
                > > > stop.
                > > >
                > > > jay
                > > >
                > > > --
                > > > http://jaydedman.com
                > > > 917 371 6790
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --
                > > http://geekentertainment.tv
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >



                --
                http://geekentertainment.tv


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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