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Re: [videoblogging] Re: vPIP 1.11 Beta (Ogg support & share video) available

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  • Richard (Show) Hall
    For the record, I would be opposed to ANY sort of DRM, or any other sort of tech road block for distributing my content. Please Blip.tv don t spend your time
    Message 1 of 20 , Sep 1, 2007
      For the record, I would be opposed to ANY sort of DRM, or any other sort of
      tech road block for distributing my content. Please Blip.tv don't spend your
      time and energy making it more difficult for people to get to my content.

      The problem is, of course, that the DRM makes this assumption that the user
      is going to try and do something that I don't want them to do, whereas I
      believe the majority will respect my license, and, in any case, my main goal
      is to deliver it most efficiently to those people, not to block evil people.

      On the other hand, if you find anyone using my content inconsistent with
      ways I specify in my license, and it's relatively serious, than by all means
      I encourage you to try and stop it. So you're energy goes toward catching
      someone who has already violated terms.

      Of course, it may be (though I'm skeptical) that I will thwart more
      "criminals" by putting this road block up, but the trade off between
      screwing up a "non-criminal's" viewing experience, is not even close to the
      advantage of blocking illegal use.

      IMHO ... DRM is a bad strategy all around for stopping
      illegal/illicit/whatever uses of digital content and I have trouble
      imagining a case where I would be for it. (Although if anyone reads this
      whole email, they may very well come up with some example that would prove
      me wrong).

      ... Richard (captain anti DRM)

      On 8/31/07, Charles Hope <charles@...> wrote:
      >
      > I think some vloggers here would appreciate DRM technology that thwarts
      > disreputable aggregators who disregard Creative Commons licensing.
      >
      > Steve Watkins wrote:
      > > DRM is understandably unpopular...
      >
      >



      --
      Richard
      http://richardhhall.org
      Shows
      http://richardshow.org
      http://inspiredhealing.tv


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Charles Hope
      Don t worry, Richard. There s no DRM on our road map. However, your concern about DRM is that it has the unfortunate side effect of impeding your actual
      Message 2 of 20 , Sep 1, 2007
        Don't worry, Richard. There's no DRM on our road map. However, your concern
        about DRM is that it has the unfortunate side effect of impeding your actual
        target audience. So you seem to be against crude, inexact DRM, and not the
        ideal type which would only be noticed by violators of the Creative Commons.
        Perhaps you just want better DRM?



        Richard (Show) Hall wrote:
        >
        > Of course, it may be (though I'm skeptical) that I will thwart more
        > "criminals" by putting this road block up, but the trade off between
        > screwing up a "non-criminal's" viewing experience, is not even close to the
        > advantage of blocking illegal use.
      • Wil Harris
        I think people want, more than anything, the choice. The thing people hate about DRM is it being forced on them and limiting their fair use rights. I think
        Message 3 of 20 , Sep 1, 2007
          I think people want, more than anything, the choice.

          The thing people hate about DRM is it being forced on them and
          limiting their fair use rights.

          I think that letting content creators choose how to publish their
          content is the way forward. DRM is never going to be a one size fits
          all solution to the problem. At the end of the day, even DRM is a
          tool that is useful to some people and will continue to be in the
          future.

          I would hope that no platform provider takes an absolute stance on
          the issue, but allows creators the freedom to build their content and
          their business model in a way that makes sense for them.

          Wil


          On 1 Sep 2007, at 21:11, Charles Hope wrote:

          > Don't worry, Richard. There's no DRM on our road map. However, your
          > concern
          > about DRM is that it has the unfortunate side effect of impeding
          > your actual
          > target audience. So you seem to be against crude, inexact DRM, and
          > not the
          > ideal type which would only be noticed by violators of the Creative
          > Commons.
          > Perhaps you just want better DRM?
          >
          > Richard (Show) Hall wrote:
          > >
          > > Of course, it may be (though I'm skeptical) that I will thwart more
          > > "criminals" by putting this road block up, but the trade off between
          > > screwing up a "non-criminal's" viewing experience, is not even
          > close to the
          > > advantage of blocking illegal use.
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Richard (Show) Hall
          Charles, I don t really want perfect DRM . First, of course, it s hard to imagine it can be done, since the ones who want to violate it are really good at
          Message 4 of 20 , Sep 1, 2007
            Charles,

            I don't really want "perfect DRM". First, of course, it's hard to imagine it
            can be done, since the ones who want to violate it are really good at
            breaking it. But that's not a real argument, of course, since the "perfect"
            is hypothetical and, in any case, you are infinitely more expert and knowing
            what actually would be possible than me. This does have a practical
            implication, however, in the trade off between how much effort it would take
            someone, even with your skills, to make this perfect DRM, and how much that
            would take away time from all the other great things that you do.

            My deeper objection is philosophical - and really applies more to media that
            is bought (as opposed to what I mae that is free) - it's like, if I purchase
            a digital song, or, especially if I buy a physical device, I think my
            personal property rights are being violated if someone does something to
            degrade that device to stop some other criminal, who is not me.

            I'm sure if I spent more time thinking about it, I can imagine scenarios
            where I wouldn't want this and it's most likely some point on a continuum
            (there's an interesting analogy to gun ownership, that makes me a little
            suspicious of my own arguments), but, by and large I lean strongly away from
            the DRM sort of philosophy.

            ... Richard

            On 9/1/07, Charles Hope <charles@...> wrote:
            >
            > Don't worry, Richard. There's no DRM on our road map. However, your
            > concern
            > about DRM is that it has the unfortunate side effect of impeding your
            > actual
            > target audience. So you seem to be against crude, inexact DRM, and not the
            >
            > ideal type which would only be noticed by violators of the Creative
            > Commons.
            > Perhaps you just want better DRM?
            >
            > Richard (Show) Hall wrote:
            > >
            > > Of course, it may be (though I'm skeptical) that I will thwart more
            > > "criminals" by putting this road block up, but the trade off between
            > > screwing up a "non-criminal's" viewing experience, is not even close to
            > the
            > > advantage of blocking illegal use.
            >
            >



            --
            Richard
            http://richardhhall.org
            Shows
            http://richardshow.org
            http://inspiredhealing.tv


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Jay dedman
            ... Here s the real story: DRM doesnt work. companies spend thousands of hours building it, and millions of dollars implementing it. They do it through
            Message 5 of 20 , Sep 1, 2007
              > I think people want, more than anything, the choice.
              > The thing people hate about DRM is it being forced on them and
              > limiting their fair use rights.
              > I think that letting content creators choose how to publish their
              > content is the way forward. DRM is never going to be a one size fits
              > all solution to the problem. At the end of the day, even DRM is a
              > tool that is useful to some people and will continue to be in the
              > future.
              > I would hope that no platform provider takes an absolute stance on
              > the issue, but allows creators the freedom to build their content and
              > their business model in a way that makes sense for them.

              Here's the real story: DRM doesnt work.
              companies spend thousands of hours building it, and millions of
              dollars implementing it.
              They do it through software and hardware.
              Then some 17 year old kids spend a weekend to crack it.

              So Richard's advice for blip to not waste time on DRM is a good one.
              if someone wants something bad enough, they're going to get it.

              We have Creative Commons licenses.
              Its clear...and its about trusting people to be smart and respectful.

              I dont need DRM to lock down my videos.
              Let's say someone grabs my videos and starts making millions of dollars....
              first, I'd be pretty impressed...but then i'd hire a lawyer to take care of it.
              If someone is just being a dick by disrespecting my CC license, Ill
              let the community know.
              ultimately, if someone is a dick and doesnt care about reputation, not
              much i can do.

              But DRM is not for you and me.....DRM is built for business.
              they want to make sure the little people dont get their greasy hands
              on their content.
              everyone is suspect. everyone is a criminal.
              forget creating goodwill with the people who keep them rolling in cash.
              people must be stopped.
              stop.

              jay

              --
              http://jaydedman.com
              917 371 6790
            • Irina
              jay you are SO wrong. its a 12 year old kid, not a 17 year old kid! get your facts right. free john johansen! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Johansen ... --
              Message 6 of 20 , Sep 3, 2007
                jay you are SO wrong.
                its a 12 year old kid, not a 17 year old kid!
                get your facts right.
                free john johansen!
                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Johansen

                On 9/1/07, Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...> wrote:
                >
                > > I think people want, more than anything, the choice.
                > > The thing people hate about DRM is it being forced on them and
                > > limiting their fair use rights.
                > > I think that letting content creators choose how to publish their
                > > content is the way forward. DRM is never going to be a one size fits
                > > all solution to the problem. At the end of the day, even DRM is a
                > > tool that is useful to some people and will continue to be in the
                > > future.
                > > I would hope that no platform provider takes an absolute stance on
                > > the issue, but allows creators the freedom to build their content and
                > > their business model in a way that makes sense for them.
                >
                > Here's the real story: DRM doesnt work.
                > companies spend thousands of hours building it, and millions of
                > dollars implementing it.
                > They do it through software and hardware.
                > Then some 17 year old kids spend a weekend to crack it.
                >
                > So Richard's advice for blip to not waste time on DRM is a good one.
                > if someone wants something bad enough, they're going to get it.
                >
                > We have Creative Commons licenses.
                > Its clear...and its about trusting people to be smart and respectful.
                >
                > I dont need DRM to lock down my videos.
                > Let's say someone grabs my videos and starts making millions of
                > dollars....
                > first, I'd be pretty impressed...but then i'd hire a lawyer to take care
                > of it.
                > If someone is just being a dick by disrespecting my CC license, Ill
                > let the community know.
                > ultimately, if someone is a dick and doesnt care about reputation, not
                > much i can do.
                >
                > But DRM is not for you and me.....DRM is built for business.
                > they want to make sure the little people dont get their greasy hands
                > on their content.
                > everyone is suspect. everyone is a criminal.
                > forget creating goodwill with the people who keep them rolling in cash.
                > people must be stopped.
                > stop.
                >
                > jay
                >
                > --
                > http://jaydedman.com
                > 917 371 6790
                >
                >



                --
                http://geekentertainment.tv


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • bordercollieaustralianshepherd
                ... 2007 - 1983 = 24 doh! Jon Lech Johansen (born November 18, 1983 in Harstad, Norway) ... content and ... take care ... cash.
                Message 7 of 20 , Sep 3, 2007
                  > jay you are SO wrong.
                  > its a 12 year old kid, not a 17 year old kid!

                  2007 - 1983 = 24 doh!
                  Jon Lech Johansen (born November 18, 1983 in Harstad, Norway)

                  :-)


                  --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Irina <irinaski@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > jay you are SO wrong.
                  > its a 12 year old kid, not a 17 year old kid!
                  > get your facts right.
                  > free john johansen!
                  > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Johansen
                  >
                  > On 9/1/07, Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > I think people want, more than anything, the choice.
                  > > > The thing people hate about DRM is it being forced on them and
                  > > > limiting their fair use rights.
                  > > > I think that letting content creators choose how to publish their
                  > > > content is the way forward. DRM is never going to be a one size fits
                  > > > all solution to the problem. At the end of the day, even DRM is a
                  > > > tool that is useful to some people and will continue to be in the
                  > > > future.
                  > > > I would hope that no platform provider takes an absolute stance on
                  > > > the issue, but allows creators the freedom to build their
                  content and
                  > > > their business model in a way that makes sense for them.
                  > >
                  > > Here's the real story: DRM doesnt work.
                  > > companies spend thousands of hours building it, and millions of
                  > > dollars implementing it.
                  > > They do it through software and hardware.
                  > > Then some 17 year old kids spend a weekend to crack it.
                  > >
                  > > So Richard's advice for blip to not waste time on DRM is a good one.
                  > > if someone wants something bad enough, they're going to get it.
                  > >
                  > > We have Creative Commons licenses.
                  > > Its clear...and its about trusting people to be smart and respectful.
                  > >
                  > > I dont need DRM to lock down my videos.
                  > > Let's say someone grabs my videos and starts making millions of
                  > > dollars....
                  > > first, I'd be pretty impressed...but then i'd hire a lawyer to
                  take care
                  > > of it.
                  > > If someone is just being a dick by disrespecting my CC license, Ill
                  > > let the community know.
                  > > ultimately, if someone is a dick and doesnt care about reputation, not
                  > > much i can do.
                  > >
                  > > But DRM is not for you and me.....DRM is built for business.
                  > > they want to make sure the little people dont get their greasy hands
                  > > on their content.
                  > > everyone is suspect. everyone is a criminal.
                  > > forget creating goodwill with the people who keep them rolling in
                  cash.
                  > > people must be stopped.
                  > > stop.
                  > >
                  > > jay
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > http://jaydedman.com
                  > > 917 371 6790
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > http://geekentertainment.tv
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Irina
                  when he was charged with his crime he was about 12 from what i remember. jon told me his father had to get him from school to take him to court. ... On
                  Message 8 of 20 , Sep 3, 2007
                    when he was charged with his "crime" he was about 12
                    from what i remember. jon told me his father had to get him
                    from school to take him to court.
                    :)

                    On 9/3/07, bordercollieaustralianshepherd <
                    bordercollieaustralianshepherd@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > jay you are SO wrong.
                    > > its a 12 year old kid, not a 17 year old kid!
                    >
                    > 2007 - 1983 = 24 doh!
                    > Jon Lech Johansen (born November 18, 1983 in Harstad, Norway)
                    >
                    > :-)
                    >
                    > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com <videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com>,
                    > Irina <irinaski@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > jay you are SO wrong.
                    > > its a 12 year old kid, not a 17 year old kid!
                    > > get your facts right.
                    > > free john johansen!
                    > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Johansen
                    > >
                    > > On 9/1/07, Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > > I think people want, more than anything, the choice.
                    > > > > The thing people hate about DRM is it being forced on them and
                    > > > > limiting their fair use rights.
                    > > > > I think that letting content creators choose how to publish their
                    > > > > content is the way forward. DRM is never going to be a one size fits
                    > > > > all solution to the problem. At the end of the day, even DRM is a
                    > > > > tool that is useful to some people and will continue to be in the
                    > > > > future.
                    > > > > I would hope that no platform provider takes an absolute stance on
                    > > > > the issue, but allows creators the freedom to build their
                    > content and
                    > > > > their business model in a way that makes sense for them.
                    > > >
                    > > > Here's the real story: DRM doesnt work.
                    > > > companies spend thousands of hours building it, and millions of
                    > > > dollars implementing it.
                    > > > They do it through software and hardware.
                    > > > Then some 17 year old kids spend a weekend to crack it.
                    > > >
                    > > > So Richard's advice for blip to not waste time on DRM is a good one.
                    > > > if someone wants something bad enough, they're going to get it.
                    > > >
                    > > > We have Creative Commons licenses.
                    > > > Its clear...and its about trusting people to be smart and respectful.
                    > > >
                    > > > I dont need DRM to lock down my videos.
                    > > > Let's say someone grabs my videos and starts making millions of
                    > > > dollars....
                    > > > first, I'd be pretty impressed...but then i'd hire a lawyer to
                    > take care
                    > > > of it.
                    > > > If someone is just being a dick by disrespecting my CC license, Ill
                    > > > let the community know.
                    > > > ultimately, if someone is a dick and doesnt care about reputation, not
                    > > > much i can do.
                    > > >
                    > > > But DRM is not for you and me.....DRM is built for business.
                    > > > they want to make sure the little people dont get their greasy hands
                    > > > on their content.
                    > > > everyone is suspect. everyone is a criminal.
                    > > > forget creating goodwill with the people who keep them rolling in
                    > cash.
                    > > > people must be stopped.
                    > > > stop.
                    > > >
                    > > > jay
                    > > >
                    > > > --
                    > > > http://jaydedman.com
                    > > > 917 371 6790
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > > http://geekentertainment.tv
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >



                    --
                    http://geekentertainment.tv


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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