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Re: [videoblogging] Re: vPIP 1.11 Beta (Ogg support & share video) available

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  • Jay dedman
    ... we need to do some testing using the QT plugin: http://xiph.org/quicktime/download.html the default settings look really good. jay -- http://jaydedman.com
    Message 1 of 20 , Aug 31, 2007
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      > That's an excellent point. Do we have specs on setting up Compressor
      > for ogg output? Data Rate, etc? Or do you use the same settings as,
      > say, MOV, but just switch the codec?

      we need to do some testing using the QT plugin:
      http://xiph.org/quicktime/download.html

      the default settings look really good.

      jay

      --
      http://jaydedman.com
      917 371 6790
    • Bill Cammack
      I see. You re right. Default looks good. I used export - movie to ogg from Quicktime player. It introduced a slight lag, maybe 1 or 2 frames with the
      Message 2 of 20 , Aug 31, 2007
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        I see. You're right. Default looks good.

        I used "export" -> "movie to ogg" from Quicktime player. It
        introduced a slight lag, maybe 1 or 2 frames with the video trailing
        the audio. That may have something to do with the FPS reading 48.01,
        or it may have something to do with watching it in Quicktime player,
        because it had to load the ogg as if it was translating the file. It
        didn't open automatically, like a quicktime file you have on your
        computer... rather, like a progressive download from the internet.

        I'll have to see how it plays in vPiP later today.

        --
        billcammack
        http://realfans.tv

        --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Jay dedman" <jay.dedman@...> wrote:
        >
        > > That's an excellent point. Do we have specs on setting up Compressor
        > > for ogg output? Data Rate, etc? Or do you use the same settings as,
        > > say, MOV, but just switch the codec?
        >
        > we need to do some testing using the QT plugin:
        > http://xiph.org/quicktime/download.html
        >
        > the default settings look really good.
        >
        > jay
        >
        > --
        > http://jaydedman.com
        > 917 371 6790
        >
      • Jay dedman
        ... yeah...see how it plays in the Ogg player that vPIP uses. you may also want to use VLC to playback Ogg files on your computer. Here s note from the
        Message 3 of 20 , Aug 31, 2007
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          > I used "export" -> "movie to ogg" from Quicktime player. It
          > introduced a slight lag, maybe 1 or 2 frames with the video trailing
          > the audio. That may have something to do with the FPS reading 48.01,
          > or it may have something to do with watching it in Quicktime player,
          > because it had to load the ogg as if it was translating the file. It
          > didn't open automatically, like a quicktime file you have on your
          > computer... rather, like a progressive download from the internet.
          > I'll have to see how it plays in vPiP later today.

          yeah...see how it plays in the Ogg player that vPIP uses.
          you may also want to use VLC to playback Ogg files on your computer.

          Here's note from the developer. You cannot resize the exported Ogg
          video, but there is a wordaround:

          "you can use it to export Ogg Theora directly from Final Cut, one limitation it
          still has right now is, that it does not provide options for resize, you
          can work around that by creating a new Sequence in the dimensions you want and
          place the Sequence you want to export inside that Sequence doing the
          scaling in Final Cut."

          jay


          --
          http://jaydedman.com
          917 371 6790
        • ryanne hodson
          not sure if this means what i think it means but: ...the big seller for Adobe is the ability to include in Flash movies so-called digital rights management
          Message 4 of 20 , Aug 31, 2007
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            not sure if this means what i think it means but:

            "...the big seller for Adobe is the ability to include in Flash movies
            so-called digital rights management (DRM) - allowing copyright holders to
            require the viewing of adverts, or restrict copying."

            from
            http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6558979.stm

            not that flash is fun to convert for copying/remixing,
            but it is doable....
            maybe in the future it won't be a possiblity
            for flash or quicktime either...



            On 8/30/07, Steve Watkins <steve@...> wrote:
            >
            > Well yes its a good thing to support formats that are apparently
            > unimpinged by patents, and where encoding and decoding stuff for the
            > formats is available as open source.
            >
            > I dont think the example of DRM is a very likely future nightmare
            > reason why people would abandon flash or quicktime, as support for
            > DRM-content can coexist quite peacfully with all the non-DRM uses of
            > stuff, but yes, there are reasons why people would want to back an
            > open format that is free in multiple senses of the word.
            >
            > An example of people wanting to switch away from h264 in future would
            > be if they put some silly licenses costs on content creators who use
            > h264, when these terms are updated in 2010 or something.
            >
            > Or yeah if Adobe went insane and did something to flash player that
            > made people not want it installed on their machines.
            >
            > If these sorts of things dont happen, then there arent too many
            > reasons to assume ogg will go massive, but its nice to have it around
            > and support for it in many tools, it is based on good principals and
            > could be important in the future, depends how many corporations
            > behave, and we know from human experience that we cant bank on them
            > always being good corporate citizens.
            >
            > Am I right to assume the Ogg Theora video playback is provided by this
            > java app?
            >
            > http://www.flumotion.net/cortado/
            >
            > Ive joined the showinabox google group but havent had a moment to post
            > there yet, will take most of m future input on this stuff otver there
            > from now on.
            >
            > I just encoded my first ogg file, using this quicktime plugin stuff:
            >
            > http://xiph.org/quicktime/download.html
            >
            > It seemed to go ok, but it is late now and Im tired, so I will have to
            > stop for tonight.
            >
            > Cheers
            >
            > Steve Elbows
            >
            >
            > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com <videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com>,
            > "Jay dedman" <jay.dedman@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > > The main features of this release is being able to play Ogg video with
            > > > the included cortado Ogg player. And on wordpress you can share the
            > > > embed code of your videos so viewers can embed the video on their
            > sites.
            > > > To download only vPIP go to:
            > > > http://vpip.org/
            > > > and select the document page for where you'll be installing vPIP.
            > > > To download this version of vPIP with ShowInABox go to:
            > > > http://showinabox.tv/wordpress/download/
            > > > and get "The Whole Enchilada"
            > >
            > > and just to be more clear why this new version of vPIP rocks like a
            > > crazy animal with superpowers:
            > >
            > > Enric included an Ogg player in vPIP...so if you provide an Ogg
            > > version, anyone can watch it without any installation. The embedded
            > > video will play like flash. The viewer wont know the difference.
            > >
            > > Why is this important?
            > > on the Showinabox list (http://groups.google.com/group/show-in-a-box),
            > > we've been talking about Ogg which is an open source codec....similar
            > > to Flash. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogg)
            > > The big question is: what happens if Flash or Quicktime starts putting
            > > DRM in their codec? or starts putting in limitations we dont want?
            > > There's not much we could do. But Ogg, like wordpress, is infinitely
            > > malleable. Lots of challenges to overcome, but enric did a big thing
            > > by making the Ogg viewing experience seemless.
            > >
            > > The new vPIP also has a "multiple embed-code generator", or Share.
            > > This lets the viewer choose which video format they want to embed on
            > their site.
            > > a person might want the 320x240 Flash version.
            > > someone else might want to embed the 640x480 HD quicktime.
            > > choices!!!!!
            > >
            > > forward and onward.
            > >
            > > Jay
            > >
            > >
            > > --
            > > http://jaydedman.com
            > > 917 371 6790
            > >
            >
            >
            >



            --
            Me ----> http://RyanEdit.com
            Twitter------>http://twitter.com/Ryanne
            Documenting Green ---->http://RyanIsHungry.com
            Educate ----> http://FreeVlog.org
            iChat/AIM ----> VideoRodeo


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Steve Watkins
            DRM is understandably unpopular, but lets not get too carried away with its implications. DRM mechanisms are already present in many of the formats people use
            Message 5 of 20 , Aug 31, 2007
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              DRM is understandably unpopular, but lets not get too carried away
              with its implications.

              DRM mechanisms are already present in many of the formats people use
              today. It causes no problem at all for unprotected media. Its only a
              restriction if the content creator/distributor chooses to use it, so
              the issues it raises will not rear their ugly heads for any vlogger
              who is against DRM.

              DRM is probably incompatible with creative commons, but again this
              only applies if you decide to protect your stuff with DRM, you can
              still use formats that technically allow DRM, just dont use that feature.

              Now if it was virtually impossible to download flash files, then CC
              would be against the use of flash, as this is denying users rights to
              download and redistribute content, which is a central right in
              creative commons. What that BBC story was refering to the fact that
              Adobe announced a desktop player app that would make downloading flash
              video even easier, but to stop their customers who are not
              progressive, and believe in tight control, from totally going nuts,
              they've given them the option to use DRM to restrict things for the
              users. Again this will only affect content where DRM is being used.
              This stuff is all about business, and the old-fashioned ways of
              monetizing creative works, by attempting to levy a charge on their
              distribution. Vlogging is generally against that, and so DRM is
              largely irrelevant, a future nightmare scenerio where all content is
              locked down with DRM, seems highly unlikely as nobody cares about
              protecting all content, just content that wants to be protected.

              I know there was that case where Sony (I think) persued an over the
              top DRM strategy that backfired when they used a system that sucked
              and caused potential security breech to users who had the stuff
              installed, and perhaps this has confused the issue somewhat. Anyway
              Sony & others probably learnt a painful lesson from that, and these
              days whilst DRM is far from dead, some have become more progressive
              about these issues, whilst others are at least balancing their
              appetite for control with the potential losses from using technology
              that sucks so bad it costs them customers. Its all about money, after
              all, and if protecting your content isnt part of the economy, nobody
              cares about forcing DRM on your stuff, DRM will not make your future hell.

              That is unless vloggers decide they actually want a bit more of DRM
              and the old ways of control. If the arse falls off the immature video
              advertising market, or people run out of other options, some people
              who make shows with an aim to make some proper dosh, might start
              looking at the old systems of controlled distribution and decide they
              want a piece of that action. I dont see many signs of this, although
              lots of people on this list have often been very hostile when others
              are rehosting their content, it seems to have been deemed as at the
              very least bad etiquette, and thus I occasionally waffle about how
              this competely contradicts creative commons principals, oh well.

              I suppose in the future, depending on how various 'new media networks'
              evolve, some vlogers may do deals where one of these networks becomes
              their publisher but they have a DRM policy or something else that
              places limits on redistribution of your show by others.

              I hate DRM and I hope the concept is gradually abandoned, but its just
              not any sort of threat or worry for vloggers, indeed it continues to
              give a real advantage to independent content, unburdened by it
              compared to shows that are on a DRM-loving network. There are
              musicians out there who would like to do stuff with their back-catalog
              but their publisher has a lot of say in that stuff and so they get
              thwarted if their publisher isnt progressive. Its darn frustrating for
              them, and the lesson is to read smallprint and consider wider
              implications before doing deals.

              Cheers

              Steve Elbows
              <ryanne.hodson@...> wrote:
              >
              > not sure if this means what i think it means but:
              >
              > "...the big seller for Adobe is the ability to include in Flash movies
              > so-called digital rights management (DRM) - allowing copyright
              holders to
              > require the viewing of adverts, or restrict copying."
              >
              > from
              > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6558979.stm
              >
              > not that flash is fun to convert for copying/remixing,
              > but it is doable....
              > maybe in the future it won't be a possiblity
              > for flash or quicktime either...
              >
              >
              >
              > On 8/30/07, Steve Watkins <steve@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Well yes its a good thing to support formats that are apparently
              > > unimpinged by patents, and where encoding and decoding stuff for the
              > > formats is available as open source.
              > >
              > > I dont think the example of DRM is a very likely future nightmare
              > > reason why people would abandon flash or quicktime, as support for
              > > DRM-content can coexist quite peacfully with all the non-DRM uses of
              > > stuff, but yes, there are reasons why people would want to back an
              > > open format that is free in multiple senses of the word.
              > >
              > > An example of people wanting to switch away from h264 in future would
              > > be if they put some silly licenses costs on content creators who use
              > > h264, when these terms are updated in 2010 or something.
              > >
              > > Or yeah if Adobe went insane and did something to flash player that
              > > made people not want it installed on their machines.
              > >
              > > If these sorts of things dont happen, then there arent too many
              > > reasons to assume ogg will go massive, but its nice to have it around
              > > and support for it in many tools, it is based on good principals and
              > > could be important in the future, depends how many corporations
              > > behave, and we know from human experience that we cant bank on them
              > > always being good corporate citizens.
              > >
              > > Am I right to assume the Ogg Theora video playback is provided by this
              > > java app?
              > >
              > > http://www.flumotion.net/cortado/
              > >
              > > Ive joined the showinabox google group but havent had a moment to post
              > > there yet, will take most of m future input on this stuff otver there
              > > from now on.
              > >
              > > I just encoded my first ogg file, using this quicktime plugin stuff:
              > >
              > > http://xiph.org/quicktime/download.html
              > >
              > > It seemed to go ok, but it is late now and Im tired, so I will have to
              > > stop for tonight.
              > >
              > > Cheers
              > >
              > > Steve Elbows
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com
              <videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com>,
              > > "Jay dedman" <jay.dedman@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > > The main features of this release is being able to play Ogg
              video with
              > > > > the included cortado Ogg player. And on wordpress you can
              share the
              > > > > embed code of your videos so viewers can embed the video on their
              > > sites.
              > > > > To download only vPIP go to:
              > > > > http://vpip.org/
              > > > > and select the document page for where you'll be installing vPIP.
              > > > > To download this version of vPIP with ShowInABox go to:
              > > > > http://showinabox.tv/wordpress/download/
              > > > > and get "The Whole Enchilada"
              > > >
              > > > and just to be more clear why this new version of vPIP rocks like a
              > > > crazy animal with superpowers:
              > > >
              > > > Enric included an Ogg player in vPIP...so if you provide an Ogg
              > > > version, anyone can watch it without any installation. The embedded
              > > > video will play like flash. The viewer wont know the difference.
              > > >
              > > > Why is this important?
              > > > on the Showinabox list
              (http://groups.google.com/group/show-in-a-box),
              > > > we've been talking about Ogg which is an open source
              codec....similar
              > > > to Flash. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogg)
              > > > The big question is: what happens if Flash or Quicktime starts
              putting
              > > > DRM in their codec? or starts putting in limitations we dont want?
              > > > There's not much we could do. But Ogg, like wordpress, is infinitely
              > > > malleable. Lots of challenges to overcome, but enric did a big thing
              > > > by making the Ogg viewing experience seemless.
              > > >
              > > > The new vPIP also has a "multiple embed-code generator", or Share.
              > > > This lets the viewer choose which video format they want to embed on
              > > their site.
              > > > a person might want the 320x240 Flash version.
              > > > someone else might want to embed the 640x480 HD quicktime.
              > > > choices!!!!!
              > > >
              > > > forward and onward.
              > > >
              > > > Jay
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --
              > > > http://jaydedman.com
              > > > 917 371 6790
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              > Me ----> http://RyanEdit.com
              > Twitter------>http://twitter.com/Ryanne
              > Documenting Green ---->http://RyanIsHungry.com
              > Educate ----> http://FreeVlog.org
              > iChat/AIM ----> VideoRodeo
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Charles Hope
              I think some vloggers here would appreciate DRM technology that thwarts disreputable aggregators who disregard Creative Commons licensing.
              Message 6 of 20 , Aug 31, 2007
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                I think some vloggers here would appreciate DRM technology that thwarts
                disreputable aggregators who disregard Creative Commons licensing.



                Steve Watkins wrote:
                > DRM is understandably unpopular...
              • Richard (Show) Hall
                For the record, I would be opposed to ANY sort of DRM, or any other sort of tech road block for distributing my content. Please Blip.tv don t spend your time
                Message 7 of 20 , Sep 1, 2007
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                  For the record, I would be opposed to ANY sort of DRM, or any other sort of
                  tech road block for distributing my content. Please Blip.tv don't spend your
                  time and energy making it more difficult for people to get to my content.

                  The problem is, of course, that the DRM makes this assumption that the user
                  is going to try and do something that I don't want them to do, whereas I
                  believe the majority will respect my license, and, in any case, my main goal
                  is to deliver it most efficiently to those people, not to block evil people.

                  On the other hand, if you find anyone using my content inconsistent with
                  ways I specify in my license, and it's relatively serious, than by all means
                  I encourage you to try and stop it. So you're energy goes toward catching
                  someone who has already violated terms.

                  Of course, it may be (though I'm skeptical) that I will thwart more
                  "criminals" by putting this road block up, but the trade off between
                  screwing up a "non-criminal's" viewing experience, is not even close to the
                  advantage of blocking illegal use.

                  IMHO ... DRM is a bad strategy all around for stopping
                  illegal/illicit/whatever uses of digital content and I have trouble
                  imagining a case where I would be for it. (Although if anyone reads this
                  whole email, they may very well come up with some example that would prove
                  me wrong).

                  ... Richard (captain anti DRM)

                  On 8/31/07, Charles Hope <charles@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I think some vloggers here would appreciate DRM technology that thwarts
                  > disreputable aggregators who disregard Creative Commons licensing.
                  >
                  > Steve Watkins wrote:
                  > > DRM is understandably unpopular...
                  >
                  >



                  --
                  Richard
                  http://richardhhall.org
                  Shows
                  http://richardshow.org
                  http://inspiredhealing.tv


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Charles Hope
                  Don t worry, Richard. There s no DRM on our road map. However, your concern about DRM is that it has the unfortunate side effect of impeding your actual
                  Message 8 of 20 , Sep 1, 2007
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                    Don't worry, Richard. There's no DRM on our road map. However, your concern
                    about DRM is that it has the unfortunate side effect of impeding your actual
                    target audience. So you seem to be against crude, inexact DRM, and not the
                    ideal type which would only be noticed by violators of the Creative Commons.
                    Perhaps you just want better DRM?



                    Richard (Show) Hall wrote:
                    >
                    > Of course, it may be (though I'm skeptical) that I will thwart more
                    > "criminals" by putting this road block up, but the trade off between
                    > screwing up a "non-criminal's" viewing experience, is not even close to the
                    > advantage of blocking illegal use.
                  • Wil Harris
                    I think people want, more than anything, the choice. The thing people hate about DRM is it being forced on them and limiting their fair use rights. I think
                    Message 9 of 20 , Sep 1, 2007
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                      I think people want, more than anything, the choice.

                      The thing people hate about DRM is it being forced on them and
                      limiting their fair use rights.

                      I think that letting content creators choose how to publish their
                      content is the way forward. DRM is never going to be a one size fits
                      all solution to the problem. At the end of the day, even DRM is a
                      tool that is useful to some people and will continue to be in the
                      future.

                      I would hope that no platform provider takes an absolute stance on
                      the issue, but allows creators the freedom to build their content and
                      their business model in a way that makes sense for them.

                      Wil


                      On 1 Sep 2007, at 21:11, Charles Hope wrote:

                      > Don't worry, Richard. There's no DRM on our road map. However, your
                      > concern
                      > about DRM is that it has the unfortunate side effect of impeding
                      > your actual
                      > target audience. So you seem to be against crude, inexact DRM, and
                      > not the
                      > ideal type which would only be noticed by violators of the Creative
                      > Commons.
                      > Perhaps you just want better DRM?
                      >
                      > Richard (Show) Hall wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Of course, it may be (though I'm skeptical) that I will thwart more
                      > > "criminals" by putting this road block up, but the trade off between
                      > > screwing up a "non-criminal's" viewing experience, is not even
                      > close to the
                      > > advantage of blocking illegal use.
                      >
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Richard (Show) Hall
                      Charles, I don t really want perfect DRM . First, of course, it s hard to imagine it can be done, since the ones who want to violate it are really good at
                      Message 10 of 20 , Sep 1, 2007
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                        Charles,

                        I don't really want "perfect DRM". First, of course, it's hard to imagine it
                        can be done, since the ones who want to violate it are really good at
                        breaking it. But that's not a real argument, of course, since the "perfect"
                        is hypothetical and, in any case, you are infinitely more expert and knowing
                        what actually would be possible than me. This does have a practical
                        implication, however, in the trade off between how much effort it would take
                        someone, even with your skills, to make this perfect DRM, and how much that
                        would take away time from all the other great things that you do.

                        My deeper objection is philosophical - and really applies more to media that
                        is bought (as opposed to what I mae that is free) - it's like, if I purchase
                        a digital song, or, especially if I buy a physical device, I think my
                        personal property rights are being violated if someone does something to
                        degrade that device to stop some other criminal, who is not me.

                        I'm sure if I spent more time thinking about it, I can imagine scenarios
                        where I wouldn't want this and it's most likely some point on a continuum
                        (there's an interesting analogy to gun ownership, that makes me a little
                        suspicious of my own arguments), but, by and large I lean strongly away from
                        the DRM sort of philosophy.

                        ... Richard

                        On 9/1/07, Charles Hope <charles@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Don't worry, Richard. There's no DRM on our road map. However, your
                        > concern
                        > about DRM is that it has the unfortunate side effect of impeding your
                        > actual
                        > target audience. So you seem to be against crude, inexact DRM, and not the
                        >
                        > ideal type which would only be noticed by violators of the Creative
                        > Commons.
                        > Perhaps you just want better DRM?
                        >
                        > Richard (Show) Hall wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Of course, it may be (though I'm skeptical) that I will thwart more
                        > > "criminals" by putting this road block up, but the trade off between
                        > > screwing up a "non-criminal's" viewing experience, is not even close to
                        > the
                        > > advantage of blocking illegal use.
                        >
                        >



                        --
                        Richard
                        http://richardhhall.org
                        Shows
                        http://richardshow.org
                        http://inspiredhealing.tv


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Jay dedman
                        ... Here s the real story: DRM doesnt work. companies spend thousands of hours building it, and millions of dollars implementing it. They do it through
                        Message 11 of 20 , Sep 1, 2007
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                          > I think people want, more than anything, the choice.
                          > The thing people hate about DRM is it being forced on them and
                          > limiting their fair use rights.
                          > I think that letting content creators choose how to publish their
                          > content is the way forward. DRM is never going to be a one size fits
                          > all solution to the problem. At the end of the day, even DRM is a
                          > tool that is useful to some people and will continue to be in the
                          > future.
                          > I would hope that no platform provider takes an absolute stance on
                          > the issue, but allows creators the freedom to build their content and
                          > their business model in a way that makes sense for them.

                          Here's the real story: DRM doesnt work.
                          companies spend thousands of hours building it, and millions of
                          dollars implementing it.
                          They do it through software and hardware.
                          Then some 17 year old kids spend a weekend to crack it.

                          So Richard's advice for blip to not waste time on DRM is a good one.
                          if someone wants something bad enough, they're going to get it.

                          We have Creative Commons licenses.
                          Its clear...and its about trusting people to be smart and respectful.

                          I dont need DRM to lock down my videos.
                          Let's say someone grabs my videos and starts making millions of dollars....
                          first, I'd be pretty impressed...but then i'd hire a lawyer to take care of it.
                          If someone is just being a dick by disrespecting my CC license, Ill
                          let the community know.
                          ultimately, if someone is a dick and doesnt care about reputation, not
                          much i can do.

                          But DRM is not for you and me.....DRM is built for business.
                          they want to make sure the little people dont get their greasy hands
                          on their content.
                          everyone is suspect. everyone is a criminal.
                          forget creating goodwill with the people who keep them rolling in cash.
                          people must be stopped.
                          stop.

                          jay

                          --
                          http://jaydedman.com
                          917 371 6790
                        • Irina
                          jay you are SO wrong. its a 12 year old kid, not a 17 year old kid! get your facts right. free john johansen! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Johansen ... --
                          Message 12 of 20 , Sep 3, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            jay you are SO wrong.
                            its a 12 year old kid, not a 17 year old kid!
                            get your facts right.
                            free john johansen!
                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Johansen

                            On 9/1/07, Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > I think people want, more than anything, the choice.
                            > > The thing people hate about DRM is it being forced on them and
                            > > limiting their fair use rights.
                            > > I think that letting content creators choose how to publish their
                            > > content is the way forward. DRM is never going to be a one size fits
                            > > all solution to the problem. At the end of the day, even DRM is a
                            > > tool that is useful to some people and will continue to be in the
                            > > future.
                            > > I would hope that no platform provider takes an absolute stance on
                            > > the issue, but allows creators the freedom to build their content and
                            > > their business model in a way that makes sense for them.
                            >
                            > Here's the real story: DRM doesnt work.
                            > companies spend thousands of hours building it, and millions of
                            > dollars implementing it.
                            > They do it through software and hardware.
                            > Then some 17 year old kids spend a weekend to crack it.
                            >
                            > So Richard's advice for blip to not waste time on DRM is a good one.
                            > if someone wants something bad enough, they're going to get it.
                            >
                            > We have Creative Commons licenses.
                            > Its clear...and its about trusting people to be smart and respectful.
                            >
                            > I dont need DRM to lock down my videos.
                            > Let's say someone grabs my videos and starts making millions of
                            > dollars....
                            > first, I'd be pretty impressed...but then i'd hire a lawyer to take care
                            > of it.
                            > If someone is just being a dick by disrespecting my CC license, Ill
                            > let the community know.
                            > ultimately, if someone is a dick and doesnt care about reputation, not
                            > much i can do.
                            >
                            > But DRM is not for you and me.....DRM is built for business.
                            > they want to make sure the little people dont get their greasy hands
                            > on their content.
                            > everyone is suspect. everyone is a criminal.
                            > forget creating goodwill with the people who keep them rolling in cash.
                            > people must be stopped.
                            > stop.
                            >
                            > jay
                            >
                            > --
                            > http://jaydedman.com
                            > 917 371 6790
                            >
                            >



                            --
                            http://geekentertainment.tv


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • bordercollieaustralianshepherd
                            ... 2007 - 1983 = 24 doh! Jon Lech Johansen (born November 18, 1983 in Harstad, Norway) ... content and ... take care ... cash.
                            Message 13 of 20 , Sep 3, 2007
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                              > jay you are SO wrong.
                              > its a 12 year old kid, not a 17 year old kid!

                              2007 - 1983 = 24 doh!
                              Jon Lech Johansen (born November 18, 1983 in Harstad, Norway)

                              :-)


                              --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Irina <irinaski@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > jay you are SO wrong.
                              > its a 12 year old kid, not a 17 year old kid!
                              > get your facts right.
                              > free john johansen!
                              > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Johansen
                              >
                              > On 9/1/07, Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > > I think people want, more than anything, the choice.
                              > > > The thing people hate about DRM is it being forced on them and
                              > > > limiting their fair use rights.
                              > > > I think that letting content creators choose how to publish their
                              > > > content is the way forward. DRM is never going to be a one size fits
                              > > > all solution to the problem. At the end of the day, even DRM is a
                              > > > tool that is useful to some people and will continue to be in the
                              > > > future.
                              > > > I would hope that no platform provider takes an absolute stance on
                              > > > the issue, but allows creators the freedom to build their
                              content and
                              > > > their business model in a way that makes sense for them.
                              > >
                              > > Here's the real story: DRM doesnt work.
                              > > companies spend thousands of hours building it, and millions of
                              > > dollars implementing it.
                              > > They do it through software and hardware.
                              > > Then some 17 year old kids spend a weekend to crack it.
                              > >
                              > > So Richard's advice for blip to not waste time on DRM is a good one.
                              > > if someone wants something bad enough, they're going to get it.
                              > >
                              > > We have Creative Commons licenses.
                              > > Its clear...and its about trusting people to be smart and respectful.
                              > >
                              > > I dont need DRM to lock down my videos.
                              > > Let's say someone grabs my videos and starts making millions of
                              > > dollars....
                              > > first, I'd be pretty impressed...but then i'd hire a lawyer to
                              take care
                              > > of it.
                              > > If someone is just being a dick by disrespecting my CC license, Ill
                              > > let the community know.
                              > > ultimately, if someone is a dick and doesnt care about reputation, not
                              > > much i can do.
                              > >
                              > > But DRM is not for you and me.....DRM is built for business.
                              > > they want to make sure the little people dont get their greasy hands
                              > > on their content.
                              > > everyone is suspect. everyone is a criminal.
                              > > forget creating goodwill with the people who keep them rolling in
                              cash.
                              > > people must be stopped.
                              > > stop.
                              > >
                              > > jay
                              > >
                              > > --
                              > > http://jaydedman.com
                              > > 917 371 6790
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --
                              > http://geekentertainment.tv
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • Irina
                              when he was charged with his crime he was about 12 from what i remember. jon told me his father had to get him from school to take him to court. ... On
                              Message 14 of 20 , Sep 3, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                when he was charged with his "crime" he was about 12
                                from what i remember. jon told me his father had to get him
                                from school to take him to court.
                                :)

                                On 9/3/07, bordercollieaustralianshepherd <
                                bordercollieaustralianshepherd@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > jay you are SO wrong.
                                > > its a 12 year old kid, not a 17 year old kid!
                                >
                                > 2007 - 1983 = 24 doh!
                                > Jon Lech Johansen (born November 18, 1983 in Harstad, Norway)
                                >
                                > :-)
                                >
                                > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com <videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                > Irina <irinaski@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > jay you are SO wrong.
                                > > its a 12 year old kid, not a 17 year old kid!
                                > > get your facts right.
                                > > free john johansen!
                                > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Johansen
                                > >
                                > > On 9/1/07, Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > > I think people want, more than anything, the choice.
                                > > > > The thing people hate about DRM is it being forced on them and
                                > > > > limiting their fair use rights.
                                > > > > I think that letting content creators choose how to publish their
                                > > > > content is the way forward. DRM is never going to be a one size fits
                                > > > > all solution to the problem. At the end of the day, even DRM is a
                                > > > > tool that is useful to some people and will continue to be in the
                                > > > > future.
                                > > > > I would hope that no platform provider takes an absolute stance on
                                > > > > the issue, but allows creators the freedom to build their
                                > content and
                                > > > > their business model in a way that makes sense for them.
                                > > >
                                > > > Here's the real story: DRM doesnt work.
                                > > > companies spend thousands of hours building it, and millions of
                                > > > dollars implementing it.
                                > > > They do it through software and hardware.
                                > > > Then some 17 year old kids spend a weekend to crack it.
                                > > >
                                > > > So Richard's advice for blip to not waste time on DRM is a good one.
                                > > > if someone wants something bad enough, they're going to get it.
                                > > >
                                > > > We have Creative Commons licenses.
                                > > > Its clear...and its about trusting people to be smart and respectful.
                                > > >
                                > > > I dont need DRM to lock down my videos.
                                > > > Let's say someone grabs my videos and starts making millions of
                                > > > dollars....
                                > > > first, I'd be pretty impressed...but then i'd hire a lawyer to
                                > take care
                                > > > of it.
                                > > > If someone is just being a dick by disrespecting my CC license, Ill
                                > > > let the community know.
                                > > > ultimately, if someone is a dick and doesnt care about reputation, not
                                > > > much i can do.
                                > > >
                                > > > But DRM is not for you and me.....DRM is built for business.
                                > > > they want to make sure the little people dont get their greasy hands
                                > > > on their content.
                                > > > everyone is suspect. everyone is a criminal.
                                > > > forget creating goodwill with the people who keep them rolling in
                                > cash.
                                > > > people must be stopped.
                                > > > stop.
                                > > >
                                > > > jay
                                > > >
                                > > > --
                                > > > http://jaydedman.com
                                > > > 917 371 6790
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --
                                > > http://geekentertainment.tv
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >



                                --
                                http://geekentertainment.tv


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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