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Re: [videoblogging] Re: The History of What My Dog Can't Hear

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  • Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen
    Beware though that the US court system do not agree with the dog essay. Adam did not write most of those songs and thus you will also need to secure permission
    Message 1 of 23 , Jul 2 11:57 AM
      Beware though that the US court system do not agree with the dog essay.
      Adam did not write most of those songs and thus you will also need to
      secure permission from the composer (or pay ASCAP fees or whatever the
      procedure is for the kind of work you want to make).

      Longer reply coming in a day or two when I've had time & energy to wade
      through the rhetoric analogies in that essay.

      - Andreas

      Den 02.07.2007 kl. 20:49 skrev David Howell <taoofdavid@...>:

      > Excellent. Much appreciated.
      >
      > I'll care for them and treat them as though they were made of the
      > finest crystal. Maybe, on a hot summer evening, I might just call one
      > of them Fred.
      >
      > David
      > http://www.davidhowellstudios.com
      >
      > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Quirk, Wreck & Salvage"
      > <quirk@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> Free as in liberty and the natural state of man, not price. They
      > actually
      >> cost $4.30 each.
      >>
      >> Them's just jokes. Use em as you see fit. I'd be honored to hear them in
      >> your video, and those songs aren't mine to sell.
      >>
      >> On 7/2/07, David Howell <taoofdavid@...> wrote:
      >> >
      >> > When you say "free lo-fi music by me", is that free as in I can use
      >> > your music without remuneration to you?
      >> >
      >> > Not trying to sound like a prick. I like your tunes and could find use
      >> > for them in a few videos I have planned.
      >> >
      >> > David
      >> > http://www.davidhowellstudios.com
      >> >
      >> > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Quirk, Wreck & Salvage"
      >> > <quirk@> wrote:
      >> > >
      >> > > Back in town, re-reading the Podtech v. Bui thread. I just want to
      >> > talk a
      >> > > little more about copyright and the "ownership" of art, as I felt
      >> > compelled
      >> > > to scratch Mr. Rice's mosquito bite about being "trollish" ;) I
      >> > don't mean
      >> > > to start an argument here, I just need to understand how people feel
      >> > about
      >> > > the things they are making, and I want you all to understand how
      > I feel.
      >> > >
      >> > > A friend of mine wrote an essay on music a couple years ago
      > called The
      >> > > History of What My Dog Can't Hear:
      >> > >
      >> > > http://www.geartekcorporation.com/texts/essay2.html
      >> > >
      >> > > The essay is about changing the way we perceive music, and accepting
      >> > it as
      >> > > something that is not ownable:
      >> > >
      >> > > The ownership or authorship of anything is a deception, surely. But
      >> > I take
      >> > > > no issue with the ownership of objects in the world, like a broom
      >> > or a drum
      >> > > > for example. Music however, is a thing not in the world, and the
      >> > present
      >> > > > deception of its ownability places limits on our consciousness. My
      >> > > > motivation here is not to sell iPods. If this near biblical
      >> > manifesto-mill
      >> > > > can be accused of having any agenda at all, it is merely to
      > assist an
      >> > > > already rising consciousness. Neither are these paragraphs
      >> > commandments or a
      >> > > > bugle call to what we need to realize or do. We didn't need to be
      >> > able to
      >> > > > hear tone in music or need to be aware of its color - it's just
      >> > the way
      >> > > > music is happening to us, rising on a path like the moon. Some
      >> > astronomers
      >> > > > can predict the path of the moon, and surely artists are those
      >> > astronomers.
      >> > > > I understand those who are skeptical or scoff at this as
      > pompous and
      >> > > > irrelevant. After all, when you look at the moon, the moon looks
      >> > still.
      >> > >
      >> > >
      >> > > He feels the same way about music as I do about my videos, and at
      >> > the end he
      >> > > says, EXTRA CREDIT: Re-read this entire essay but replace the word
      >> > "music"
      >> > > with the word "images."
      >> > >
      >> > > Re-reading it I realized that I unconsciously lifted metaphor
      >> > directly from
      >> > > him. Blatant plagiarism! I've already informed him and a check is
      >> > in the
      >> > > mail.
      >> > >
      >> > > Because music is a matter of shifting consciousness and not worldly
      >> > sound, a
      >> > > > person can't claim to own or control music any more than they can
      >> > claim to
      >> > > > own or control a quadrant of mist over a lake.
      >> > >
      >> > >
      >> > > PS. Here is a free album of amazing midi-synthesizer and home-made
      >> > > electronic instrument music by the author of that essay:
      >> > > http://www.geartekcorporation.com/slowdudes/slowdudes.html
      >> > >
      >> > > And some free lo-fi music by me:
      >> > > http://standards.bullemhead.com/
      >> > >
      >> > > --
      >> > > Adam Quirk
      >> > > Wreck & Salvage
      >> > > 551.208.4644
      >> > > Brooklyn, NY
      >> > > http://wreckandsalvage.com
      >> > >
      >> > >
      >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >> > >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >>
      >>
      >> --
      >> Adam Quirk
      >> Wreck & Salvage
      >> 551.208.4644
      >> Brooklyn, NY
      >> http://wreckandsalvage.com
      >>
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >
      >



      --
      Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen
      <URL: http://www.solitude.dk/ >
    • David Howell
      Interesting. So, all musicians or bands covering a tune must get permission first or pay fees? Does that include if they cover a song in an encore or something
      Message 2 of 23 , Jul 2 12:02 PM
        Interesting.

        So, all musicians or bands covering a tune must get permission first
        or pay fees? Does that include if they cover a song in an encore or
        something too?

        Adam's music might have to become my bastard red-haired step children
        then.

        David
        http://www.davidhowellstudios.com

        --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen"
        <solitude@...> wrote:
        >
        > Beware though that the US court system do not agree with the dog
        essay.
        > Adam did not write most of those songs and thus you will also need to
        > secure permission from the composer (or pay ASCAP fees or whatever the
        > procedure is for the kind of work you want to make).
        >
        > Longer reply coming in a day or two when I've had time & energy to
        wade
        > through the rhetoric analogies in that essay.
        >
        > - Andreas
        >
        > Den 02.07.2007 kl. 20:49 skrev David Howell <taoofdavid@...>:
        >
        > > Excellent. Much appreciated.
        > >
        > > I'll care for them and treat them as though they were made of the
        > > finest crystal. Maybe, on a hot summer evening, I might just call one
        > > of them Fred.
        > >
        > > David
        > > http://www.davidhowellstudios.com
        > >
        > > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Quirk, Wreck & Salvage"
        > > <quirk@> wrote:
        > >>
        > >> Free as in liberty and the natural state of man, not price. They
        > > actually
        > >> cost $4.30 each.
        > >>
        > >> Them's just jokes. Use em as you see fit. I'd be honored to hear
        them in
        > >> your video, and those songs aren't mine to sell.
        > >>
        > >> On 7/2/07, David Howell <taoofdavid@> wrote:
        > >> >
        > >> > When you say "free lo-fi music by me", is that free as in I can use
        > >> > your music without remuneration to you?
        > >> >
        > >> > Not trying to sound like a prick. I like your tunes and could
        find use
        > >> > for them in a few videos I have planned.
        > >> >
        > >> > David
        > >> > http://www.davidhowellstudios.com
        > >> >
        > >> > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Quirk, Wreck & Salvage"
        > >> > <quirk@> wrote:
        > >> > >
        > >> > > Back in town, re-reading the Podtech v. Bui thread. I just
        want to
        > >> > talk a
        > >> > > little more about copyright and the "ownership" of art, as I felt
        > >> > compelled
        > >> > > to scratch Mr. Rice's mosquito bite about being "trollish" ;) I
        > >> > don't mean
        > >> > > to start an argument here, I just need to understand how
        people feel
        > >> > about
        > >> > > the things they are making, and I want you all to understand how
        > > I feel.
        > >> > >
        > >> > > A friend of mine wrote an essay on music a couple years ago
        > > called The
        > >> > > History of What My Dog Can't Hear:
        > >> > >
        > >> > > http://www.geartekcorporation.com/texts/essay2.html
        > >> > >
        > >> > > The essay is about changing the way we perceive music, and
        accepting
        > >> > it as
        > >> > > something that is not ownable:
        > >> > >
        > >> > > The ownership or authorship of anything is a deception,
        surely. But
        > >> > I take
        > >> > > > no issue with the ownership of objects in the world, like a
        broom
        > >> > or a drum
        > >> > > > for example. Music however, is a thing not in the world,
        and the
        > >> > present
        > >> > > > deception of its ownability places limits on our
        consciousness. My
        > >> > > > motivation here is not to sell iPods. If this near biblical
        > >> > manifesto-mill
        > >> > > > can be accused of having any agenda at all, it is merely to
        > > assist an
        > >> > > > already rising consciousness. Neither are these paragraphs
        > >> > commandments or a
        > >> > > > bugle call to what we need to realize or do. We didn't need
        to be
        > >> > able to
        > >> > > > hear tone in music or need to be aware of its color - it's just
        > >> > the way
        > >> > > > music is happening to us, rising on a path like the moon. Some
        > >> > astronomers
        > >> > > > can predict the path of the moon, and surely artists are those
        > >> > astronomers.
        > >> > > > I understand those who are skeptical or scoff at this as
        > > pompous and
        > >> > > > irrelevant. After all, when you look at the moon, the moon
        looks
        > >> > still.
        > >> > >
        > >> > >
        > >> > > He feels the same way about music as I do about my videos, and at
        > >> > the end he
        > >> > > says, EXTRA CREDIT: Re-read this entire essay but replace the
        word
        > >> > "music"
        > >> > > with the word "images."
        > >> > >
        > >> > > Re-reading it I realized that I unconsciously lifted metaphor
        > >> > directly from
        > >> > > him. Blatant plagiarism! I've already informed him and a
        check is
        > >> > in the
        > >> > > mail.
        > >> > >
        > >> > > Because music is a matter of shifting consciousness and not
        worldly
        > >> > sound, a
        > >> > > > person can't claim to own or control music any more than
        they can
        > >> > claim to
        > >> > > > own or control a quadrant of mist over a lake.
        > >> > >
        > >> > >
        > >> > > PS. Here is a free album of amazing midi-synthesizer and
        home-made
        > >> > > electronic instrument music by the author of that essay:
        > >> > > http://www.geartekcorporation.com/slowdudes/slowdudes.html
        > >> > >
        > >> > > And some free lo-fi music by me:
        > >> > > http://standards.bullemhead.com/
        > >> > >
        > >> > > --
        > >> > > Adam Quirk
        > >> > > Wreck & Salvage
        > >> > > 551.208.4644
        > >> > > Brooklyn, NY
        > >> > > http://wreckandsalvage.com
        > >> > >
        > >> > >
        > >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >> > >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> --
        > >> Adam Quirk
        > >> Wreck & Salvage
        > >> 551.208.4644
        > >> Brooklyn, NY
        > >> http://wreckandsalvage.com
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > --
        > Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen
        > <URL: http://www.solitude.dk/ >
        >
      • missbhavens1969
        Well, I was under the impression that musicians/bands covering a tune for a recording would certainly need permission on the assumption that money would be
        Message 3 of 23 , Jul 3 6:59 AM
          Well, I was under the impression that musicians/bands covering a tune
          for a recording would certainly need permission on the assumption that
          money would be made from the sale of the album.

          But every band in every live concert I've ever seen has done at least
          one cover (always my favorite part of a show...you can't judge a book by
          it's cover but you CAN judge a band by it's covers) and I can't imagine
          they sought permission first.

          Oh well. There must be some sort of "if you're already famous you can do
          a cover of my famous song" clause.

          In the meanwhile, I'm going to brush up on my piano skills. I've always
          wanted to use "Song for a Future Generation" by the B-52s. Perhaps I'll
          cover that.

          bekah

          ps: David, my fiancee informs me that we no longer say "bastard
          red-headed step children". The more accepted term is "Gingers".

          ; )
          --
          http://www.missbhavens.com


          --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "David Howell" <taoofdavid@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Interesting.
          >
          > So, all musicians or bands covering a tune must get permission first
          > or pay fees? Does that include if they cover a song in an encore or
          > something too?
          >
          > Adam's music might have to become my bastard red-haired step children
          > then.
          >
          > David
          > http://www.davidhowellstudios.com
          >
          > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen"
          > solitude@ wrote:
          > >
          > > Beware though that the US court system do not agree with the dog
          > essay.
          > > Adam did not write most of those songs and thus you will also need
          to
          > > secure permission from the composer (or pay ASCAP fees or whatever
          the
          > > procedure is for the kind of work you want to make).
          > >
          > > Longer reply coming in a day or two when I've had time & energy to
          > wade
          > > through the rhetoric analogies in that essay.
          > >
          > > - Andreas
          > >
          > > Den 02.07.2007 kl. 20:49 skrev David Howell taoofdavid@:
          > >
          > > > Excellent. Much appreciated.
          > > >
          > > > I'll care for them and treat them as though they were made of the
          > > > finest crystal. Maybe, on a hot summer evening, I might just call
          one
          > > > of them Fred.
          > > >
          > > > David
          > > > http://www.davidhowellstudios.com
          > > >
          > > > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Quirk, Wreck &
          Salvage"
          > > > <quirk@> wrote:
          > > >>
          > > >> Free as in liberty and the natural state of man, not price. They
          > > > actually
          > > >> cost $4.30 each.
          > > >>
          > > >> Them's just jokes. Use em as you see fit. I'd be honored to hear
          > them in
          > > >> your video, and those songs aren't mine to sell.
          > > >>
          > > >> On 7/2/07, David Howell <taoofdavid@> wrote:
          > > >> >
          > > >> > When you say "free lo-fi music by me", is that free as in I can
          use
          > > >> > your music without remuneration to you?
          > > >> >
          > > >> > Not trying to sound like a prick. I like your tunes and could
          > find use
          > > >> > for them in a few videos I have planned.
          > > >> >
          > > >> > David
          > > >> > http://www.davidhowellstudios.com
          > > >> >
          > > >> > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Quirk, Wreck &
          Salvage"
          > > >> > <quirk@> wrote:
          > > >> > >
          > > >> > > Back in town, re-reading the Podtech v. Bui thread. I just
          > want to
          > > >> > talk a
          > > >> > > little more about copyright and the "ownership" of art, as I
          felt
          > > >> > compelled
          > > >> > > to scratch Mr. Rice's mosquito bite about being "trollish" ;)
          I
          > > >> > don't mean
          > > >> > > to start an argument here, I just need to understand how
          > people feel
          > > >> > about
          > > >> > > the things they are making, and I want you all to understand
          how
          > > > I feel.
          > > >> > >
          > > >> > > A friend of mine wrote an essay on music a couple years ago
          > > > called The
          > > >> > > History of What My Dog Can't Hear:
          > > >> > >
          > > >> > > http://www.geartekcorporation.com/texts/essay2.html
          > > >> > >
          > > >> > > The essay is about changing the way we perceive music, and
          > accepting
          > > >> > it as
          > > >> > > something that is not ownable:
          > > >> > >
          > > >> > > The ownership or authorship of anything is a deception,
          > surely. But
          > > >> > I take
          > > >> > > > no issue with the ownership of objects in the world, like a
          > broom
          > > >> > or a drum
          > > >> > > > for example. Music however, is a thing not in the world,
          > and the
          > > >> > present
          > > >> > > > deception of its ownability places limits on our
          > consciousness. My
          > > >> > > > motivation here is not to sell iPods. If this near biblical
          > > >> > manifesto-mill
          > > >> > > > can be accused of having any agenda at all, it is merely to
          > > > assist an
          > > >> > > > already rising consciousness. Neither are these paragraphs
          > > >> > commandments or a
          > > >> > > > bugle call to what we need to realize or do. We didn't need
          > to be
          > > >> > able to
          > > >> > > > hear tone in music or need to be aware of its color - it's
          just
          > > >> > the way
          > > >> > > > music is happening to us, rising on a path like the moon.
          Some
          > > >> > astronomers
          > > >> > > > can predict the path of the moon, and surely artists are
          those
          > > >> > astronomers.
          > > >> > > > I understand those who are skeptical or scoff at this as
          > > > pompous and
          > > >> > > > irrelevant. After all, when you look at the moon, the moon
          > looks
          > > >> > still.
          > > >> > >
          > > >> > >
          > > >> > > He feels the same way about music as I do about my videos,
          and at
          > > >> > the end he
          > > >> > > says, EXTRA CREDIT: Re-read this entire essay but replace the
          > word
          > > >> > "music"
          > > >> > > with the word "images."
          > > >> > >
          > > >> > > Re-reading it I realized that I unconsciously lifted metaphor
          > > >> > directly from
          > > >> > > him. Blatant plagiarism! I've already informed him and a
          > check is
          > > >> > in the
          > > >> > > mail.
          > > >> > >
          > > >> > > Because music is a matter of shifting consciousness and not
          > worldly
          > > >> > sound, a
          > > >> > > > person can't claim to own or control music any more than
          > they can
          > > >> > claim to
          > > >> > > > own or control a quadrant of mist over a lake.
          > > >> > >
          > > >> > >
          > > >> > > PS. Here is a free album of amazing midi-synthesizer and
          > home-made
          > > >> > > electronic instrument music by the author of that essay:
          > > >> > > http://www.geartekcorporation.com/slowdudes/slowdudes.html
          > > >> > >
          > > >> > > And some free lo-fi music by me:
          > > >> > > http://standards.bullemhead.com/
          > > >> > >
          > > >> > > --
          > > >> > > Adam Quirk
          > > >> > > Wreck & Salvage
          > > >> > > 551.208.4644
          > > >> > > Brooklyn, NY
          > > >> > > http://wreckandsalvage.com
          > > >> > >
          > > >> > >
          > > >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >> > >
          > > >> >
          > > >> >
          > > >> >
          > > >> >
          > > >> >
          > > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > > >> >
          > > >> >
          > > >> >
          > > >> >
          > > >>
          > > >>
          > > >> --
          > > >> Adam Quirk
          > > >> Wreck & Salvage
          > > >> 551.208.4644
          > > >> Brooklyn, NY
          > > >> http://wreckandsalvage.com
          > > >>
          > > >>
          > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >>
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --
          > > Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen
          > > <URL: http://www.solitude.dk/ >
          > >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen
          There are standard licensing agreements for this kind of stuff and no permission is needed as long as you pay. In the case of music being covered by a live
          Message 4 of 23 , Jul 3 7:21 AM
            There are standard licensing agreements for this kind of stuff and no
            permission is needed as long as you pay. In the case of music being
            covered by a live band it is to the best of my knowledge the venue who is
            paying the licensing fees (in Denmark, don't know about the US) to the
            appropriate organization.

            - Andreas

            Den 03.07.2007 kl. 15:59 skrev missbhavens1969 <missbhavens1969@...>:

            > Well, I was under the impression that musicians/bands covering a tune
            > for a recording would certainly need permission on the assumption that
            > money would be made from the sale of the album.
            >
            > But every band in every live concert I've ever seen has done at least
            > one cover (always my favorite part of a show...you can't judge a book by
            > it's cover but you CAN judge a band by it's covers) and I can't imagine
            > they sought permission first.
            >
            > Oh well. There must be some sort of "if you're already famous you can do
            > a cover of my famous song" clause.
            >
            > In the meanwhile, I'm going to brush up on my piano skills. I've always
            > wanted to use "Song for a Future Generation" by the B-52s. Perhaps I'll
            > cover that.
            >
            > bekah
            >
            > ps: David, my fiancee informs me that we no longer say "bastard
            > red-headed step children". The more accepted term is "Gingers".
            >
            > ; )
            > --
            > http://www.missbhavens.com
            >
            >
            > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "David Howell" <taoofdavid@...>
            > wrote:
            >>
            >> Interesting.
            >>
            >> So, all musicians or bands covering a tune must get permission first
            >> or pay fees? Does that include if they cover a song in an encore or
            >> something too?
            >>
            >> Adam's music might have to become my bastard red-haired step children
            >> then.
            >>
            >> David
            >> http://www.davidhowellstudios.com
            >>
            >> --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen"
            >> solitude@ wrote:
            >> >
            >> > Beware though that the US court system do not agree with the dog
            >> essay.
            >> > Adam did not write most of those songs and thus you will also need
            > to
            >> > secure permission from the composer (or pay ASCAP fees or whatever
            > the
            >> > procedure is for the kind of work you want to make).
            >> >
            >> > Longer reply coming in a day or two when I've had time & energy to
            >> wade
            >> > through the rhetoric analogies in that essay.
            >> >
            >> > - Andreas
            >> >
            >> > Den 02.07.2007 kl. 20:49 skrev David Howell taoofdavid@:
            >> >
            >> > > Excellent. Much appreciated.
            >> > >
            >> > > I'll care for them and treat them as though they were made of the
            >> > > finest crystal. Maybe, on a hot summer evening, I might just call
            > one
            >> > > of them Fred.
            >> > >
            >> > > David
            >> > > http://www.davidhowellstudios.com
            >> > >
            >> > > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Quirk, Wreck &
            > Salvage"
            >> > > <quirk@> wrote:
            >> > >>
            >> > >> Free as in liberty and the natural state of man, not price. They
            >> > > actually
            >> > >> cost $4.30 each.
            >> > >>
            >> > >> Them's just jokes. Use em as you see fit. I'd be honored to hear
            >> them in
            >> > >> your video, and those songs aren't mine to sell.
            >> > >>
            >> > >> On 7/2/07, David Howell <taoofdavid@> wrote:
            >> > >> >
            >> > >> > When you say "free lo-fi music by me", is that free as in I can
            > use
            >> > >> > your music without remuneration to you?
            >> > >> >
            >> > >> > Not trying to sound like a prick. I like your tunes and could
            >> find use
            >> > >> > for them in a few videos I have planned.
            >> > >> >
            >> > >> > David
            >> > >> > http://www.davidhowellstudios.com
            >> > >> >
            >> > >> > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Quirk, Wreck &
            > Salvage"
            >> > >> > <quirk@> wrote:
            >> > >> > >
            >> > >> > > Back in town, re-reading the Podtech v. Bui thread. I just
            >> want to
            >> > >> > talk a
            >> > >> > > little more about copyright and the "ownership" of art, as I
            > felt
            >> > >> > compelled
            >> > >> > > to scratch Mr. Rice's mosquito bite about being "trollish" ;)
            > I
            >> > >> > don't mean
            >> > >> > > to start an argument here, I just need to understand how
            >> people feel
            >> > >> > about
            >> > >> > > the things they are making, and I want you all to understand
            > how
            >> > > I feel.
            >> > >> > >
            >> > >> > > A friend of mine wrote an essay on music a couple years ago
            >> > > called The
            >> > >> > > History of What My Dog Can't Hear:
            >> > >> > >
            >> > >> > > http://www.geartekcorporation.com/texts/essay2.html
            >> > >> > >
            >> > >> > > The essay is about changing the way we perceive music, and
            >> accepting
            >> > >> > it as
            >> > >> > > something that is not ownable:
            >> > >> > >
            >> > >> > > The ownership or authorship of anything is a deception,
            >> surely. But
            >> > >> > I take
            >> > >> > > > no issue with the ownership of objects in the world, like a
            >> broom
            >> > >> > or a drum
            >> > >> > > > for example. Music however, is a thing not in the world,
            >> and the
            >> > >> > present
            >> > >> > > > deception of its ownability places limits on our
            >> consciousness. My
            >> > >> > > > motivation here is not to sell iPods. If this near biblical
            >> > >> > manifesto-mill
            >> > >> > > > can be accused of having any agenda at all, it is merely to
            >> > > assist an
            >> > >> > > > already rising consciousness. Neither are these paragraphs
            >> > >> > commandments or a
            >> > >> > > > bugle call to what we need to realize or do. We didn't need
            >> to be
            >> > >> > able to
            >> > >> > > > hear tone in music or need to be aware of its color - it's
            > just
            >> > >> > the way
            >> > >> > > > music is happening to us, rising on a path like the moon.
            > Some
            >> > >> > astronomers
            >> > >> > > > can predict the path of the moon, and surely artists are
            > those
            >> > >> > astronomers.
            >> > >> > > > I understand those who are skeptical or scoff at this as
            >> > > pompous and
            >> > >> > > > irrelevant. After all, when you look at the moon, the moon
            >> looks
            >> > >> > still.
            >> > >> > >
            >> > >> > >
            >> > >> > > He feels the same way about music as I do about my videos,
            > and at
            >> > >> > the end he
            >> > >> > > says, EXTRA CREDIT: Re-read this entire essay but replace the
            >> word
            >> > >> > "music"
            >> > >> > > with the word "images."
            >> > >> > >
            >> > >> > > Re-reading it I realized that I unconsciously lifted metaphor
            >> > >> > directly from
            >> > >> > > him. Blatant plagiarism! I've already informed him and a
            >> check is
            >> > >> > in the
            >> > >> > > mail.
            >> > >> > >
            >> > >> > > Because music is a matter of shifting consciousness and not
            >> worldly
            >> > >> > sound, a
            >> > >> > > > person can't claim to own or control music any more than
            >> they can
            >> > >> > claim to
            >> > >> > > > own or control a quadrant of mist over a lake.
            >> > >> > >
            >> > >> > >
            >> > >> > > PS. Here is a free album of amazing midi-synthesizer and
            >> home-made
            >> > >> > > electronic instrument music by the author of that essay:
            >> > >> > > http://www.geartekcorporation.com/slowdudes/slowdudes.html
            >> > >> > >
            >> > >> > > And some free lo-fi music by me:
            >> > >> > > http://standards.bullemhead.com/
            >> > >> > >
            >> > >> > > --
            >> > >> > > Adam Quirk
            >> > >> > > Wreck & Salvage
            >> > >> > > 551.208.4644
            >> > >> > > Brooklyn, NY
            >> > >> > > http://wreckandsalvage.com
            >> > >> > >
            >> > >> > >
            >> > >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >> > >> > >
            >> > >> >
            >> > >> >
            >> > >> >
            >> > >> >
            >> > >> >
            >> > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >> > >> >
            >> > >> >
            >> > >> >
            >> > >> >
            >> > >>
            >> > >>
            >> > >> --
            >> > >> Adam Quirk
            >> > >> Wreck & Salvage
            >> > >> 551.208.4644
            >> > >> Brooklyn, NY
            >> > >> http://wreckandsalvage.com
            >> > >>
            >> > >>
            >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >> > >>
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > --
            >> > Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen
            >> > <URL: http://www.solitude.dk/ >
            >> >
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >



            --
            Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen
            <URL: http://www.solitude.dk/ >
          • Brook Hinton
            In the US it is assumed the venue has paid their annual licensing fee. My understanding is even bars and cafes aren t supposed to have a radio on unless they
            Message 5 of 23 , Jul 3 8:16 AM
              In the US it is assumed the venue has paid their annual licensing fee. My
              understanding is even bars and cafes aren't supposed to have a radio on
              unless they have paid a licensing fee. It is: insane.


              _______________________________________________________
              Brook Hinton
              film/video/audio art
              www.brookhinton.com <<vlog links are here
              ______________________________________


              On 7/3/07, Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen <solitude@...> wrote:
              >
              > There are standard licensing agreements for this kind of stuff and no
              > permission is needed as long as you pay. In the case of music being
              > covered by a live band it is to the best of my knowledge the venue who is
              > paying the licensing fees (in Denmark, don't know about the US) to the
              > appropriate organization.
              >
              > - Andreas
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen
              That is true in Denmark as well. The prices are very reasonable (I just looked them up) and won t hold any establishment back. - Andreas ... -- Andreas
              Message 6 of 23 , Jul 3 8:26 AM
                That is true in Denmark as well. The prices are very reasonable (I just
                looked them up) and won't hold any establishment back.

                - Andreas

                Den 03.07.2007 kl. 17:16 skrev Brook Hinton <bhinton@...>:

                > In the US it is assumed the venue has paid their annual licensing fee. My
                > understanding is even bars and cafes aren't supposed to have a radio on
                > unless they have paid a licensing fee. It is: insane.
                >
                >
                > _______________________________________________________
                > Brook Hinton
                > film/video/audio art
                > www.brookhinton.com <<vlog links are here
                > ______________________________________
                >
                >
                > On 7/3/07, Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen <solitude@...> wrote:
                >>
                >> There are standard licensing agreements for this kind of stuff and no
                >> permission is needed as long as you pay. In the case of music being
                >> covered by a live band it is to the best of my knowledge the venue who
                >> is
                >> paying the licensing fees (in Denmark, don't know about the US) to the
                >> appropriate organization.
                >>
                >> - Andreas
                >>
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >



                --
                Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen
                <URL: http://www.solitude.dk/ >
              • Adrian Miles
                around the 3/7/07 Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen mentioned about Re: ... ditto in Australia. the agency responsible also redistributes this money to artists on the
                Message 7 of 23 , Jul 3 2:31 PM
                  around the 3/7/07 Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen mentioned about Re:
                  [videoblogging] Re: The History of What My Dog Can't He that:
                  >That is true in Denmark as well. The prices are very reasonable (I just
                  >looked them up) and won't hold any establishment back.

                  ditto in Australia. the agency responsible also redistributes this
                  money to artists on the basis of sales of music and radio station
                  playlists.
                  --
                  cheers
                  Adrian Miles
                  this email is bloggable [ ] ask first [ ] private [x]
                  vogmae.net.au
                  [official compliance stuff:] CRICOS provider code: 00122A
                • bordercollieaustralianshepherd
                  As always I have stories, but this time I ll just provide links and search terms.. http://www.ascap.com/licensing/ http://www.bmi.com/licensing/?link=navbar
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jul 3 6:55 PM
                    As always I have stories, but this time I'll just provide links and
                    search terms..


                    http://www.ascap.com/licensing/

                    http://www.bmi.com/licensing/?link=navbar

                    http://www.bmi.com/licensing/entry/C1176


                    You should be able to find plenty of info using these search terms:
                    ASCAP and BMI, ASCAP and BMI and VIOLATIONS, ASCAP and BMI and BAR and
                    CLUB.



                    > [videoblogging] Re: The History of What My Dog Can't He that:
                    > >That is true in Denmark as well. The prices are very reasonable (I just
                    > >looked them up) and won't hold any establishment back.
                    >
                    > ditto in Australia. the agency responsible also redistributes this
                    > money to artists on the basis of sales of music and radio station
                    > playlists.
                    > --
                    > cheers
                    > Adrian Miles
                  • Adam Jochum
                    In a live perfomance, the venue pays for the privilege of allowing the musician to perform copyrighted material via ASCAP and BMI membership . If a recording
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jul 4 8:03 AM
                      In a live perfomance, the venue pays for the privilege of allowing the
                      musician to perform copyrighted material via ASCAP and BMI
                      'membership'. If a recording is made, the musician pays for the
                      privilege of distributing the copyrighted material. Some friends of
                      mine in a band who released a live recording are continuously
                      grumbling about the royalties on the 'covers' they played in that show.


                      Adam Jochum
                      cafn8ed.tv


                      --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "missbhavens1969"
                      <missbhavens1969@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Well, I was under the impression that musicians/bands covering a tune
                      > for a recording would certainly need permission on the assumption that
                      > money would be made from the sale of the album.
                      >
                      > But every band in every live concert I've ever seen has done at least
                      > one cover (always my favorite part of a show...you can't judge a book by
                      > it's cover but you CAN judge a band by it's covers) and I can't imagine
                      > they sought permission first.
                      >
                      > Oh well. There must be some sort of "if you're already famous you can do
                      > a cover of my famous song" clause.
                      >
                      > In the meanwhile, I'm going to brush up on my piano skills. I've always
                      > wanted to use "Song for a Future Generation" by the B-52s. Perhaps I'll
                      > cover that.
                      >
                      > bekah
                      >
                      > ps: David, my fiancee informs me that we no longer say "bastard
                      > red-headed step children". The more accepted term is "Gingers".
                      >
                      > ; )
                      > --
                      > http://www.missbhavens.com
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "David Howell" <taoofdavid@>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Interesting.
                      > >
                      > > So, all musicians or bands covering a tune must get permission first
                      > > or pay fees? Does that include if they cover a song in an encore or
                      > > something too?
                      > >
                      > > Adam's music might have to become my bastard red-haired step children
                      > > then.
                      > >
                      > > David
                      > > http://www.davidhowellstudios.com
                      > >
                      > > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen"
                      > > solitude@ wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Beware though that the US court system do not agree with the dog
                      > > essay.
                      > > > Adam did not write most of those songs and thus you will also need
                      > to
                      > > > secure permission from the composer (or pay ASCAP fees or whatever
                      > the
                      > > > procedure is for the kind of work you want to make).
                      > > >
                      > > > Longer reply coming in a day or two when I've had time & energy to
                      > > wade
                      > > > through the rhetoric analogies in that essay.
                      > > >
                      > > > - Andreas
                      > > >
                      > > > Den 02.07.2007 kl. 20:49 skrev David Howell taoofdavid@:
                      > > >
                      > > > > Excellent. Much appreciated.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I'll care for them and treat them as though they were made of the
                      > > > > finest crystal. Maybe, on a hot summer evening, I might just call
                      > one
                      > > > > of them Fred.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > David
                      > > > > http://www.davidhowellstudios.com
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Quirk, Wreck &
                      > Salvage"
                      > > > > <quirk@> wrote:
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >> Free as in liberty and the natural state of man, not price. They
                      > > > > actually
                      > > > >> cost $4.30 each.
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >> Them's just jokes. Use em as you see fit. I'd be honored to hear
                      > > them in
                      > > > >> your video, and those songs aren't mine to sell.
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >> On 7/2/07, David Howell <taoofdavid@> wrote:
                      > > > >> >
                      > > > >> > When you say "free lo-fi music by me", is that free as in I can
                      > use
                      > > > >> > your music without remuneration to you?
                      > > > >> >
                      > > > >> > Not trying to sound like a prick. I like your tunes and could
                      > > find use
                      > > > >> > for them in a few videos I have planned.
                      > > > >> >
                      > > > >> > David
                      > > > >> > http://www.davidhowellstudios.com
                      > > > >> >
                      > > > >> > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Quirk, Wreck &
                      > Salvage"
                      > > > >> > <quirk@> wrote:
                      > > > >> > >
                      > > > >> > > Back in town, re-reading the Podtech v. Bui thread. I just
                      > > want to
                      > > > >> > talk a
                      > > > >> > > little more about copyright and the "ownership" of art, as I
                      > felt
                      > > > >> > compelled
                      > > > >> > > to scratch Mr. Rice's mosquito bite about being "trollish" ;)
                      > I
                      > > > >> > don't mean
                      > > > >> > > to start an argument here, I just need to understand how
                      > > people feel
                      > > > >> > about
                      > > > >> > > the things they are making, and I want you all to understand
                      > how
                      > > > > I feel.
                      > > > >> > >
                      > > > >> > > A friend of mine wrote an essay on music a couple years ago
                      > > > > called The
                      > > > >> > > History of What My Dog Can't Hear:
                      > > > >> > >
                      > > > >> > > http://www.geartekcorporation.com/texts/essay2.html
                      > > > >> > >
                      > > > >> > > The essay is about changing the way we perceive music, and
                      > > accepting
                      > > > >> > it as
                      > > > >> > > something that is not ownable:
                      > > > >> > >
                      > > > >> > > The ownership or authorship of anything is a deception,
                      > > surely. But
                      > > > >> > I take
                      > > > >> > > > no issue with the ownership of objects in the world, like a
                      > > broom
                      > > > >> > or a drum
                      > > > >> > > > for example. Music however, is a thing not in the world,
                      > > and the
                      > > > >> > present
                      > > > >> > > > deception of its ownability places limits on our
                      > > consciousness. My
                      > > > >> > > > motivation here is not to sell iPods. If this near biblical
                      > > > >> > manifesto-mill
                      > > > >> > > > can be accused of having any agenda at all, it is merely to
                      > > > > assist an
                      > > > >> > > > already rising consciousness. Neither are these paragraphs
                      > > > >> > commandments or a
                      > > > >> > > > bugle call to what we need to realize or do. We didn't need
                      > > to be
                      > > > >> > able to
                      > > > >> > > > hear tone in music or need to be aware of its color - it's
                      > just
                      > > > >> > the way
                      > > > >> > > > music is happening to us, rising on a path like the moon.
                      > Some
                      > > > >> > astronomers
                      > > > >> > > > can predict the path of the moon, and surely artists are
                      > those
                      > > > >> > astronomers.
                      > > > >> > > > I understand those who are skeptical or scoff at this as
                      > > > > pompous and
                      > > > >> > > > irrelevant. After all, when you look at the moon, the moon
                      > > looks
                      > > > >> > still.
                      > > > >> > >
                      > > > >> > >
                      > > > >> > > He feels the same way about music as I do about my videos,
                      > and at
                      > > > >> > the end he
                      > > > >> > > says, EXTRA CREDIT: Re-read this entire essay but replace the
                      > > word
                      > > > >> > "music"
                      > > > >> > > with the word "images."
                      > > > >> > >
                      > > > >> > > Re-reading it I realized that I unconsciously lifted metaphor
                      > > > >> > directly from
                      > > > >> > > him. Blatant plagiarism! I've already informed him and a
                      > > check is
                      > > > >> > in the
                      > > > >> > > mail.
                      > > > >> > >
                      > > > >> > > Because music is a matter of shifting consciousness and not
                      > > worldly
                      > > > >> > sound, a
                      > > > >> > > > person can't claim to own or control music any more than
                      > > they can
                      > > > >> > claim to
                      > > > >> > > > own or control a quadrant of mist over a lake.
                      > > > >> > >
                      > > > >> > >
                      > > > >> > > PS. Here is a free album of amazing midi-synthesizer and
                      > > home-made
                      > > > >> > > electronic instrument music by the author of that essay:
                      > > > >> > > http://www.geartekcorporation.com/slowdudes/slowdudes.html
                      > > > >> > >
                      > > > >> > > And some free lo-fi music by me:
                      > > > >> > > http://standards.bullemhead.com/
                      > > > >> > >
                      > > > >> > > --
                      > > > >> > > Adam Quirk
                      > > > >> > > Wreck & Salvage
                      > > > >> > > 551.208.4644
                      > > > >> > > Brooklyn, NY
                      > > > >> > > http://wreckandsalvage.com
                      > > > >> > >
                      > > > >> > >
                      > > > >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > > >> > >
                      > > > >> >
                      > > > >> >
                      > > > >> >
                      > > > >> >
                      > > > >> >
                      > > > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > > >> >
                      > > > >> >
                      > > > >> >
                      > > > >> >
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >> --
                      > > > >> Adam Quirk
                      > > > >> Wreck & Salvage
                      > > > >> 551.208.4644
                      > > > >> Brooklyn, NY
                      > > > >> http://wreckandsalvage.com
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --
                      > > > Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen
                      > > > <URL: http://www.solitude.dk/ >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Richard (Show) Hall
                      Ok, I m not sure how this has changed since Maureen and I were playing music and recording. Anyway, we recorded one cover song on a CD we made - writer was
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jul 4 9:33 AM
                        Ok, I'm not sure how this has changed since Maureen and I were playing music
                        and recording.

                        Anyway, we recorded one cover song on a CD we made - writer was ASCP or BMI,
                        don't remember which - and the way it worked was that for every CD we sold
                        we were to pay him 9 cents or something like that (this was early 90s).

                        So, if that is the "royalties" you refer to, at least in our case, seemed
                        pretty reasonable.

                        I'm not sure how universal this was or what, but we got the info from the
                        song writer himself and from a lot of other singer song writers we knew at
                        the time, so that was our source for information on what to do - no one
                        official.

                        Now we give away the one CD we recorded for free and all the songs can be
                        downloaded for free at blisshippy.com (not a big deal, and not trying to
                        promote our music - there a zillions of much more talented artists on pod
                        safe music - archive.org live archives - etc. - where you can get songs to
                        play for free with your vlogs).

                        But the point with the free part, is I would logically deduce that when we
                        give a cover song away - one we perform, ourselves - we don't have to pay
                        any royalties.

                        So, if I want to have a certain popular song as background, and I'm a
                        musician with the ability to play that song myself, I can use it without
                        worrying so long as I don't make money off of the song/video. Now, if I do
                        make money, not sure what would be equivalent to one CD sold, so, not sure
                        how royalty would work.

                        I would love to hear comments from someone with more expertise on the
                        legalities of using a copy righted cover song that I perform myself in a
                        situation where I'm not making money, and I'm distributing widely - is that
                        legal to do without paying royalties?

                        ... Richard

                        On 7/4/07, Adam Jochum <cafn8ed.tv@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > In a live perfomance, the venue pays for the privilege of allowing the
                        > musician to perform copyrighted material via ASCAP and BMI
                        > 'membership'. If a recording is made, the musician pays for the
                        > privilege of distributing the copyrighted material. Some friends of
                        > mine in a band who released a live recording are continuously
                        > grumbling about the royalties on the 'covers' they played in that show.
                        >
                        > Adam Jochum
                        > cafn8ed.tv
                        >
                        > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com <videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com>,
                        > "missbhavens1969"
                        >
                        > <missbhavens1969@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Well, I was under the impression that musicians/bands covering a tune
                        > > for a recording would certainly need permission on the assumption that
                        > > money would be made from the sale of the album.
                        > >
                        > > But every band in every live concert I've ever seen has done at least
                        > > one cover (always my favorite part of a show...you can't judge a book by
                        > > it's cover but you CAN judge a band by it's covers) and I can't imagine
                        > > they sought permission first.
                        > >
                        > > Oh well. There must be some sort of "if you're already famous you can do
                        > > a cover of my famous song" clause.
                        > >
                        > > In the meanwhile, I'm going to brush up on my piano skills. I've always
                        > > wanted to use "Song for a Future Generation" by the B-52s. Perhaps I'll
                        > > cover that.
                        > >
                        > > bekah
                        > >
                        > > ps: David, my fiancee informs me that we no longer say "bastard
                        > > red-headed step children". The more accepted term is "Gingers".
                        > >
                        > > ; )
                        > > --
                        > > http://www.missbhavens.com
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com <videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com>,
                        > "David Howell" <taoofdavid@>
                        > > wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Interesting.
                        > > >
                        > > > So, all musicians or bands covering a tune must get permission first
                        > > > or pay fees? Does that include if they cover a song in an encore or
                        > > > something too?
                        > > >
                        > > > Adam's music might have to become my bastard red-haired step children
                        > > > then.
                        > > >
                        > > > David
                        > > > http://www.davidhowellstudios.com
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com <videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com>,
                        > "Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen"
                        > > > solitude@ wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Beware though that the US court system do not agree with the dog
                        > > > essay.
                        > > > > Adam did not write most of those songs and thus you will also need
                        > > to
                        > > > > secure permission from the composer (or pay ASCAP fees or whatever
                        > > the
                        > > > > procedure is for the kind of work you want to make).
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Longer reply coming in a day or two when I've had time & energy to
                        > > > wade
                        > > > > through the rhetoric analogies in that essay.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > - Andreas
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Den 02.07.2007 kl. 20:49 skrev David Howell taoofdavid@:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > > Excellent. Much appreciated.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > I'll care for them and treat them as though they were made of the
                        > > > > > finest crystal. Maybe, on a hot summer evening, I might just call
                        > > one
                        > > > > > of them Fred.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > David
                        > > > > > http://www.davidhowellstudios.com
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com<videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com>,
                        > "Adam Quirk, Wreck &
                        > > Salvage"
                        > > > > > <quirk@> wrote:
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> Free as in liberty and the natural state of man, not price. They
                        > > > > > actually
                        > > > > >> cost $4.30 each.
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> Them's just jokes. Use em as you see fit. I'd be honored to hear
                        > > > them in
                        > > > > >> your video, and those songs aren't mine to sell.
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> On 7/2/07, David Howell <taoofdavid@> wrote:
                        > > > > >> >
                        > > > > >> > When you say "free lo-fi music by me", is that free as in I can
                        > > use
                        > > > > >> > your music without remuneration to you?
                        > > > > >> >
                        > > > > >> > Not trying to sound like a prick. I like your tunes and could
                        > > > find use
                        > > > > >> > for them in a few videos I have planned.
                        > > > > >> >
                        > > > > >> > David
                        > > > > >> > http://www.davidhowellstudios.com
                        > > > > >> >
                        > > > > >> > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com<videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com>,
                        > "Adam Quirk, Wreck &
                        > > Salvage"
                        > > > > >> > <quirk@> wrote:
                        > > > > >> > >
                        > > > > >> > > Back in town, re-reading the Podtech v. Bui thread. I just
                        > > > want to
                        > > > > >> > talk a
                        > > > > >> > > little more about copyright and the "ownership" of art, as I
                        > > felt
                        > > > > >> > compelled
                        > > > > >> > > to scratch Mr. Rice's mosquito bite about being "trollish" ;)
                        > > I
                        > > > > >> > don't mean
                        > > > > >> > > to start an argument here, I just need to understand how
                        > > > people feel
                        > > > > >> > about
                        > > > > >> > > the things they are making, and I want you all to understand
                        > > how
                        > > > > > I feel.
                        > > > > >> > >
                        > > > > >> > > A friend of mine wrote an essay on music a couple years ago
                        > > > > > called The
                        > > > > >> > > History of What My Dog Can't Hear:
                        > > > > >> > >
                        > > > > >> > > http://www.geartekcorporation.com/texts/essay2.html
                        > > > > >> > >
                        > > > > >> > > The essay is about changing the way we perceive music, and
                        > > > accepting
                        > > > > >> > it as
                        > > > > >> > > something that is not ownable:
                        > > > > >> > >
                        > > > > >> > > The ownership or authorship of anything is a deception,
                        > > > surely. But
                        > > > > >> > I take
                        > > > > >> > > > no issue with the ownership of objects in the world, like a
                        > > > broom
                        > > > > >> > or a drum
                        > > > > >> > > > for example. Music however, is a thing not in the world,
                        > > > and the
                        > > > > >> > present
                        > > > > >> > > > deception of its ownability places limits on our
                        > > > consciousness. My
                        > > > > >> > > > motivation here is not to sell iPods. If this near biblical
                        > > > > >> > manifesto-mill
                        > > > > >> > > > can be accused of having any agenda at all, it is merely to
                        > > > > > assist an
                        > > > > >> > > > already rising consciousness. Neither are these paragraphs
                        > > > > >> > commandments or a
                        > > > > >> > > > bugle call to what we need to realize or do. We didn't need
                        > > > to be
                        > > > > >> > able to
                        > > > > >> > > > hear tone in music or need to be aware of its color - it's
                        > > just
                        > > > > >> > the way
                        > > > > >> > > > music is happening to us, rising on a path like the moon.
                        > > Some
                        > > > > >> > astronomers
                        > > > > >> > > > can predict the path of the moon, and surely artists are
                        > > those
                        > > > > >> > astronomers.
                        > > > > >> > > > I understand those who are skeptical or scoff at this as
                        > > > > > pompous and
                        > > > > >> > > > irrelevant. After all, when you look at the moon, the moon
                        > > > looks
                        > > > > >> > still.
                        > > > > >> > >
                        > > > > >> > >
                        > > > > >> > > He feels the same way about music as I do about my videos,
                        > > and at
                        > > > > >> > the end he
                        > > > > >> > > says, EXTRA CREDIT: Re-read this entire essay but replace the
                        > > > word
                        > > > > >> > "music"
                        > > > > >> > > with the word "images."
                        > > > > >> > >
                        > > > > >> > > Re-reading it I realized that I unconsciously lifted metaphor
                        > > > > >> > directly from
                        > > > > >> > > him. Blatant plagiarism! I've already informed him and a
                        > > > check is
                        > > > > >> > in the
                        > > > > >> > > mail.
                        > > > > >> > >
                        > > > > >> > > Because music is a matter of shifting consciousness and not
                        > > > worldly
                        > > > > >> > sound, a
                        > > > > >> > > > person can't claim to own or control music any more than
                        > > > they can
                        > > > > >> > claim to
                        > > > > >> > > > own or control a quadrant of mist over a lake.
                        > > > > >> > >
                        > > > > >> > >
                        > > > > >> > > PS. Here is a free album of amazing midi-synthesizer and
                        > > > home-made
                        > > > > >> > > electronic instrument music by the author of that essay:
                        > > > > >> > > http://www.geartekcorporation.com/slowdudes/slowdudes.html
                        > > > > >> > >
                        > > > > >> > > And some free lo-fi music by me:
                        > > > > >> > > http://standards.bullemhead.com/
                        > > > > >> > >
                        > > > > >> > > --
                        > > > > >> > > Adam Quirk
                        > > > > >> > > Wreck & Salvage
                        > > > > >> > > 551.208.4644
                        > > > > >> > > Brooklyn, NY
                        > > > > >> > > http://wreckandsalvage.com
                        > > > > >> > >
                        > > > > >> > >
                        > > > > >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > > > >> > >
                        > > > > >> >
                        > > > > >> >
                        > > > > >> >
                        > > > > >> >
                        > > > > >> >
                        > > > > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > > > > >> >
                        > > > > >> >
                        > > > > >> >
                        > > > > >> >
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> --
                        > > > > >> Adam Quirk
                        > > > > >> Wreck & Salvage
                        > > > > >> 551.208.4644
                        > > > > >> Brooklyn, NY
                        > > > > >> http://wreckandsalvage.com
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --
                        > > > > Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen
                        > > > > <URL: http://www.solitude.dk/ >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >



                        --
                        Richard
                        http://richardhhall.org
                        Shows
                        http://richardshow.org
                        http://inspiredhealing.tv


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Rupert
                        Music copyright - recorded and performed - is handled in the UK by the MCPS-PRS Alliance. They are experimenting with various different discount schemes for
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jul 4 9:46 AM
                          Music copyright - recorded and performed - is handled in the UK by
                          the MCPS-PRS Alliance.

                          They are experimenting with various different discount schemes for
                          using music in podcasts.

                          They had a cheap license last year, I think, which they withdrew.
                          They're now planning to re-release it, i think, with all sorts of
                          limitations on it like not using the whole song and not using
                          bookmarks and show notes to indicate start and end points. And a few
                          other more restrictive ones besides.

                          The licenses for live venues and for recorded music here have been
                          overhauled as part of our government's attempts to legislate
                          everything they possibly can as quickly as possible. The Musicians
                          Union and other people made a lot of noise about how the new laws
                          would kill live music in venues where acts performed only
                          occasionally (license is something like £1000 per year, so a country
                          pub's got to sell a lot of beer to recover that as a result of the
                          occasional weekend band). But I'm not sure what the actual effect
                          has been in the end.

                          Rupert
                          http://twittervlog.tv/




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Rupert
                          I took you at you word, even though the word honoured was directed at David: I stole your beautiful rainbow and pasted it over my ugly house :)
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jul 7 2:56 AM
                            I took you at you word, even though the word honoured was directed at
                            David:

                            I stole your beautiful rainbow and pasted it over my ugly house :)

                            http://twittervlog.tv/?p=153

                            Rupert

                            On 2 Jul 2007, at 19:38, Adam Quirk, Wreck & Salvage wrote:

                            Free as in liberty and the natural state of man, not price. They
                            actually
                            cost $4.30 each.

                            Them's just jokes. Use em as you see fit. I'd be honored to hear them in
                            your video, and those songs aren't mine to sell.

                            On 7/2/07, David Howell <taoofdavid@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > When you say "free lo-fi music by me", is that free as in I can use
                            > your music without remuneration to you?
                            >
                            > Not trying to sound like a prick. I like your tunes and could find
                            use
                            > for them in a few videos I have planned.
                            >
                            > David
                            > http://www.davidhowellstudios.com
                            >
                            > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Quirk, Wreck & Salvage"
                            > <quirk@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Back in town, re-reading the Podtech v. Bui thread. I just want to
                            > talk a
                            > > little more about copyright and the "ownership" of art, as I felt
                            > compelled
                            > > to scratch Mr. Rice's mosquito bite about being "trollish" ;) I
                            > don't mean
                            > > to start an argument here, I just need to understand how people
                            feel
                            > about
                            > > the things they are making, and I want you all to understand how
                            I feel.
                            > >
                            > > A friend of mine wrote an essay on music a couple years ago
                            called The
                            > > History of What My Dog Can't Hear:
                            > >
                            > > http://www.geartekcorporation.com/texts/essay2.html
                            > >
                            > > The essay is about changing the way we perceive music, and
                            accepting
                            > it as
                            > > something that is not ownable:
                            > >
                            > > The ownership or authorship of anything is a deception, surely. But
                            > I take
                            > > > no issue with the ownership of objects in the world, like a broom
                            > or a drum
                            > > > for example. Music however, is a thing not in the world, and the
                            > present
                            > > > deception of its ownability places limits on our
                            consciousness. My
                            > > > motivation here is not to sell iPods. If this near biblical
                            > manifesto-mill
                            > > > can be accused of having any agenda at all, it is merely to
                            assist an
                            > > > already rising consciousness. Neither are these paragraphs
                            > commandments or a
                            > > > bugle call to what we need to realize or do. We didn't need to be
                            > able to
                            > > > hear tone in music or need to be aware of its color - it's just
                            > the way
                            > > > music is happening to us, rising on a path like the moon. Some
                            > astronomers
                            > > > can predict the path of the moon, and surely artists are those
                            > astronomers.
                            > > > I understand those who are skeptical or scoff at this as
                            pompous and
                            > > > irrelevant. After all, when you look at the moon, the moon looks
                            > still.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > He feels the same way about music as I do about my videos, and at
                            > the end he
                            > > says, EXTRA CREDIT: Re-read this entire essay but replace the word
                            > "music"
                            > > with the word "images."
                            > >
                            > > Re-reading it I realized that I unconsciously lifted metaphor
                            > directly from
                            > > him. Blatant plagiarism! I've already informed him and a check is
                            > in the
                            > > mail.
                            > >
                            > > Because music is a matter of shifting consciousness and not worldly
                            > sound, a
                            > > > person can't claim to own or control music any more than they can
                            > claim to
                            > > > own or control a quadrant of mist over a lake.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > PS. Here is a free album of amazing midi-synthesizer and home-made
                            > > electronic instrument music by the author of that essay:
                            > > http://www.geartekcorporation.com/slowdudes/slowdudes.html
                            > >
                            > > And some free lo-fi music by me:
                            > > http://standards.bullemhead.com/
                            > >
                            > > --
                            > > Adam Quirk
                            > > Wreck & Salvage
                            > > 551.208.4644
                            > > Brooklyn, NY
                            > > http://wreckandsalvage.com
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >

                            --
                            Adam Quirk
                            Wreck & Salvage
                            551.208.4644
                            Brooklyn, NY
                            http://wreckandsalvage.com

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • bordercollieaustralianshepherd
                            Eat faster, Drink quick, Move along, nothing to hear here any more. Without a special license, owners of bars, clubs and restaurants could be sued for playing
                            Message 13 of 23 , Aug 1, 2007
                              Eat faster, Drink quick, Move along, nothing to hear here any more.

                              "Without a special license, owners of bars, clubs and restaurants could be sued for playing
                              any one of 8 million recorded songs, even from their own CDs.

                              The American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers (ASCAP) says that equates to
                              performing copyrighted music without permission, and the group is going after local
                              businesses that haven't paid them for the privilege."
                              more: <http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/
                              2003815486_royalty01.html>

                              --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Quirk, Wreck & Salvage" <quirk@...>
                              wrote:

                              >
                              > A friend of mine wrote an essay on music a couple years ago called The
                              > History of What My Dog Can't Hear:
                              >
                              > http://www.geartekcorporation.com/texts/essay2.html
                              >
                              > The essay is about changing the way we perceive music, and accepting it as
                              > something that is not ownable:
                              >
                              > The ownership or authorship of anything is a deception, surely. But I take
                              > > no issue with the ownership of objects in the world, like a broom or a drum
                              > > for example. Music however, is a thing not in the world, and the present
                              > > deception of its ownability places limits on our consciousness.
                            • Steve Watkins
                              Heres a tinyurl to the story you posted: http://tinyurl.com/3bzguo I dont think its a new law though is it, just another wave of make an example of them to
                              Message 14 of 23 , Aug 1, 2007
                                Heres a tinyurl to the story you posted: http://tinyurl.com/3bzguo

                                I dont think its a new law though is it, just another wave of 'make an
                                example of them to get others to comply, throw the book at them' type
                                stuff?

                                Added together these sorts of extra costs can make it hard for the
                                smaller venues to survive, if they arent too profitable to start with.
                                But its something Im sure most businesses are used to paying, I think
                                in the UK that most companies accept they have to pay such things, or
                                they try to avoid it until they are first approached, and then they
                                cough up the moolah rather than having to suffer any further hassle.

                                I dont expect anybody that makes a stand in the courts to win, as I
                                think the laws are pretty well established regarding public
                                performance rights, but maybe Im wrong.

                                Like when I was a kid, when they played videos at school the
                                smallprint always mentioned that the video was not licensed for
                                display at public events, in schools etc. I always wondered if the
                                schools paid a blanket fee, or some higher authority covered it on
                                their behalf, or whether they were being naughty and ignoring such things.

                                As that article's quotes from people show, the majority dont really
                                buy into the concept tat when they buy music or films or whatever,
                                they dont own them, they are just given rights to do certain things
                                with them. Its a tricky one, companies are spending lots of money
                                trying to 'educate the public' that things like mp3 downloading are
                                the same as stealing CDs from a music shop. Theres a really dreadful
                                advert on UK TV at the moment that tries to make a social taboo out of
                                buying pirate DVDs and such things, equating it to a bloke who gives
                                his girlfriend a ring he found in the street, what a cheapskate, hate
                                him, hate him. Meanwhile research suggests that the UK is a world
                                leader in terms of people buying dodgy fake goods.

                                What I really object to is when I buy a legit DVD and then every time
                                I stick it in the drive I am forced to watch a short piece about how
                                evil copied DVDs are. Great, punish me for having the legit version!

                                If In 25 years it is the trend for people to gather at venues wher
                                videoblogs are played on giant screens, would videobloggers think this
                                was commercial use and that they are entitled to some small cut? Thats
                                when the issues can get interesting, as otherwise its too easy to side
                                with freedom.

                                At this point my own philosophy is settling on the total respect for
                                whtaever the particular content cretor wants. If theyve signed up to a
                                system that uses draconian methods, more fool them in the long run. If
                                they want all media to be free and believe in a true creative commons
                                of works, then hoorah. If they believe in something else then I'll
                                respect that too, though I personally have a special place in my heart
                                for those who want to push freedom further than most.

                                Cheers

                                Steve Elbows

                                --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "bordercollieaustralianshepherd"
                                <bordercollieaustralianshepherd@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Eat faster, Drink quick, Move along, nothing to hear here any more.
                                >
                                > "Without a special license, owners of bars, clubs and restaurants
                                could be sued for playing
                                > any one of 8 million recorded songs, even from their own CDs.
                                >
                                > The American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers (ASCAP)
                                says that equates to
                                > performing copyrighted music without permission, and the group is
                                going after local
                                > businesses that haven't paid them for the privilege."
                                > more: <http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/
                                > 2003815486_royalty01.html>
                                >
                              • Adam Quirk, Wreck & Salvage
                                ... No. At this point my own philosophy is settling on the total respect for ... Me too... I have a special place in my heart for those who want to push
                                Message 15 of 23 , Aug 1, 2007
                                  >
                                  > If In 25 years it is the trend for people to gather at venues wher
                                  > videoblogs are played on giant screens, would videobloggers think this
                                  > was commercial use and that they are entitled to some small cut?


                                  No.

                                  At this point my own philosophy is settling on the total respect for
                                  > whtaever the particular content cretor wants. If theyve signed up to a
                                  > system that uses draconian methods, more fool them in the long run. If
                                  > they want all media to be free and believe in a true creative commons
                                  > of works, then hoorah. If they believe in something else then I'll
                                  > respect that too, though I personally have a special place in my heart
                                  > for those who want to push freedom further than most.


                                  Me too... I have a special place in my heart for those who want to push
                                  anything farther than most. Creativity, freedom, even obscenity (for fuck's
                                  sake). One of the biggest misses in videoblogging is the lack of people
                                  pushing limits, and I don't exclude myself.

                                  The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who
                                  really know where it is are the ones who have gone over.
                                  Hunter S. Thompson


                                  --
                                  Adam Quirk
                                  Wreck & Salvage
                                  551.208.4644
                                  Brooklyn, NY
                                  http://wreckandsalvage.com


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Ron Watson
                                  Perhaps we need a personal information contract that we could supply to corporations that says , You don t own this information, you just have the rights to
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Aug 1, 2007
                                    Perhaps we need a personal information contract that we could supply
                                    to corporations that says ,"You don't own this information, you just
                                    have the rights to use it for your personal records."

                                    If enough of the market were on board, they'd have to deal with it.

                                    I'm tired of them exploiting us.

                                    Cheers,

                                    Ron Watson

                                    Pawsitive Vybe
                                    11659 Berrigan Ave
                                    Cedar Springs, MI 49319
                                    http://pawsitivevybe.com

                                    Personal Contact:
                                    616.802.8923
                                    k9disc@...

                                    On the Web:
                                    http://pawsitivevybe.com
                                    http://k9disc.com
                                    http://k9disc.blip.tv


                                    On Aug 1, 2007, at 1:07 PM, Steve Watkins wrote:

                                    > Heres a tinyurl to the story you posted: http://tinyurl.com/3bzguo
                                    >
                                    > I dont think its a new law though is it, just another wave of 'make an
                                    > example of them to get others to comply, throw the book at them' type
                                    > stuff?
                                    >
                                    > Added together these sorts of extra costs can make it hard for the
                                    > smaller venues to survive, if they arent too profitable to start with.
                                    > But its something Im sure most businesses are used to paying, I think
                                    > in the UK that most companies accept they have to pay such things, or
                                    > they try to avoid it until they are first approached, and then they
                                    > cough up the moolah rather than having to suffer any further hassle.
                                    >
                                    > I dont expect anybody that makes a stand in the courts to win, as I
                                    > think the laws are pretty well established regarding public
                                    > performance rights, but maybe Im wrong.
                                    >
                                    > Like when I was a kid, when they played videos at school the
                                    > smallprint always mentioned that the video was not licensed for
                                    > display at public events, in schools etc. I always wondered if the
                                    > schools paid a blanket fee, or some higher authority covered it on
                                    > their behalf, or whether they were being naughty and ignoring such
                                    > things.
                                    >
                                    > As that article's quotes from people show, the majority dont really
                                    > buy into the concept tat when they buy music or films or whatever,
                                    > they dont own them, they are just given rights to do certain things
                                    > with them. Its a tricky one, companies are spending lots of money
                                    > trying to 'educate the public' that things like mp3 downloading are
                                    > the same as stealing CDs from a music shop. Theres a really dreadful
                                    > advert on UK TV at the moment that tries to make a social taboo out of
                                    > buying pirate DVDs and such things, equating it to a bloke who gives
                                    > his girlfriend a ring he found in the street, what a cheapskate, hate
                                    > him, hate him. Meanwhile research suggests that the UK is a world
                                    > leader in terms of people buying dodgy fake goods.
                                    >
                                    > What I really object to is when I buy a legit DVD and then every time
                                    > I stick it in the drive I am forced to watch a short piece about how
                                    > evil copied DVDs are. Great, punish me for having the legit version!
                                    >
                                    > If In 25 years it is the trend for people to gather at venues wher
                                    > videoblogs are played on giant screens, would videobloggers think this
                                    > was commercial use and that they are entitled to some small cut? Thats
                                    > when the issues can get interesting, as otherwise its too easy to side
                                    > with freedom.
                                    >
                                    > At this point my own philosophy is settling on the total respect for
                                    > whtaever the particular content cretor wants. If theyve signed up to a
                                    > system that uses draconian methods, more fool them in the long run. If
                                    > they want all media to be free and believe in a true creative commons
                                    > of works, then hoorah. If they believe in something else then I'll
                                    > respect that too, though I personally have a special place in my heart
                                    > for those who want to push freedom further than most.
                                    >
                                    > Cheers
                                    >
                                    > Steve Elbows
                                    >
                                    > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "bordercollieaustralianshepherd"
                                    > <bordercollieaustralianshepherd@...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Eat faster, Drink quick, Move along, nothing to hear here any more.
                                    > >
                                    > > "Without a special license, owners of bars, clubs and restaurants
                                    > could be sued for playing
                                    > > any one of 8 million recorded songs, even from their own CDs.
                                    > >
                                    > > The American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers (ASCAP)
                                    > says that equates to
                                    > > performing copyrighted music without permission, and the group is
                                    > going after local
                                    > > businesses that haven't paid them for the privilege."
                                    > > more: <http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/
                                    > > 2003815486_royalty01.html>
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >



                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Adrian Miles
                                    around the 1/8/07 Steve Watkins mentioned about [videoblogging] Re: ... you re right, old law. as discussed here recently, in Australia this been the norm for
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Aug 1, 2007
                                      around the 1/8/07 Steve Watkins mentioned about [videoblogging] Re:
                                      Hardball legal tactics. Was: The Histor that:
                                      >I dont think its a new law though is it, just another wave of 'make an
                                      >example of them to get others to comply, throw the book at them' type
                                      >stuff?

                                      you're right, old law. as discussed here recently, in Australia this
                                      been the norm for years. Small annual licence fee, the money is
                                      redistributed as royalties to the artists (they do audits of what is
                                      played and bought).

                                      >
                                      >Added together these sorts of extra costs can make it hard for the
                                      >smaller venues to survive, if they arent too profitable to start with.
                                      >But its something Im sure most businesses are used to paying, I think
                                      >in the UK that most companies accept they have to pay such things, or
                                      >they try to avoid it until they are first approached, and then they
                                      >cough up the moolah rather than having to suffer any further hassle.


                                      here the cost for clubs has just gone up substantially which they're
                                      all upset about, on the other hand if I sell a recording to an
                                      individual for an individual cost and it gets played to a *paying*
                                      audience in a club of 1000, it seems pretty reasonable that the
                                      artist gets a return...

                                      >
                                      >I dont expect anybody that makes a stand in the courts to win, as I
                                      >think the laws are pretty well established regarding public
                                      >performance rights, but maybe Im wrong.
                                      >
                                      >Like when I was a kid, when they played videos at school the
                                      >smallprint always mentioned that the video was not licensed for
                                      >display at public events, in schools etc. I always wondered if the
                                      >schools paid a blanket fee, or some higher authority covered it on
                                      >their behalf, or whether they were being naughty and ignoring such things.

                                      it is normal practice to buy a different licence for edu use. eg a
                                      film that i can buy for $30 over the counter for home use might be
                                      $300 but I can then show it to a lecture theatre full of students.
                                      same logic as for the music. also why technically you can only
                                      photocopy x% of a book to make available to students.

                                      we can complain about it, or we can make work that is not subject to
                                      these forms of copyright if we wish. :-)
                                      --
                                      cheers
                                      Adrian Miles
                                      this email is bloggable [ ] ask first [ ] private [x]
                                      vogmae.net.au
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                                    • Steve Watkins
                                      In a different thread Adam Quirk said: I have a special place in my heart for those who want to push anything farther than most. Creativity, freedom, even
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Aug 3, 2007
                                        In a different thread Adam Quirk said:

                                        "I have a special place in my heart for those who want to push
                                        anything farther than most. Creativity, freedom, even obscenity (for
                                        fuck's sake). One of the biggest misses in videoblogging is the lack
                                        of people pushing limits, and I don't exclude myself."

                                        Yes I ponder that a lot all the time. I wanted to do risky stuff but I
                                        struggle because I am a chickenshit, get paranoid, intimidate myself lol.

                                        I have commented not so long ago that a lot of edgy stuff Ive seen in
                                        my life has been on UK television.

                                        But Ive got a few examples of stuff I think is edgy on the net that I
                                        wasnt aware of till recently:

                                        Better Bad News (god knows why I only just saw this amazing stuff)

                                        Pat Condell on Youtube (attacking religions with comic truth, whoa)


                                        I dont know if its harder to stumble over the edge these days, maybe I
                                        am looking for the wrong edge. Would Lenny Bruce and Bill Hicks have
                                        been edgy if they were of the vlogging era? Is it harder to be edgy on
                                        the net?

                                        Are conspiracy theory talking heads edgy?

                                        Oh I just dont know, so much of this is about cultural taboo's, we
                                        have seen that comments about Thailands king are definately edgy if
                                        you are vlogging such things in Thailand where he is revered and there
                                        still seem to be widespread belief in that sort of deference and respect.

                                        I suppose a reason to expect more edgy stuff on the net, is that such
                                        things may not traditionalyl get on TV due to financial and legal
                                        risks. So maybe youd expect a floodtide of such stuff on the net
                                        because it doesnt currently suffer those barriers much.

                                        Also I guess its about audience, Janet Jacksons nipple can cause a
                                        storm if it slips out to the masses at a certain time of day,
                                        meanwhile look at whats available on the net.

                                        Cheers

                                        Steve Elbows
                                      • Bill Cammack
                                        ... Yeah... I ve TRIED not to laugh at Better Bad News , but I haven t seen an episode of it yet where I haven t gotten at
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Aug 3, 2007
                                          --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Watkins" <steve@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > But Ive got a few examples of stuff I think is edgy on the net that I
                                          > wasnt aware of till recently:
                                          >
                                          > Better Bad News (god knows why I only just saw this amazing stuff)
                                          >
                                          > Cheers
                                          >
                                          > Steve Elbows
                                          >

                                          Yeah... I've TRIED not to laugh at "Better Bad News"
                                          <http://betterbadnews.blip.tv/>, but I haven't seen an episode of it
                                          yet where I haven't gotten at least two decent laughs out of it.
                                          There's obviously a lot of writing work ?improv work? that goes into
                                          that show.

                                          --
                                          billcammack
                                          http://reelsolid.tv
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