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Copyrights/Collaborations & Vlog Gumbo

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  • Chuck Leggett
    I ve followed the recent discussions concerning copyright and fair use and would like to establish the following guidelines for episodes posted as Vlog
    Message 1 of 23 , Jul 31, 2006
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      I've followed the recent discussions concerning copyright and fair use
      and would like to establish the following guidelines for episodes
      posted as "Vlog Gumbo."

      Vlog Gumbo is and will always remain a not-for-profit project. My
      intention is simply to help promote fellow vloggers and to highlight
      my favorite vlog episodes.

      Vlog Gumbo will NEVER include paid ads or in any way "make a profit."

      All episodes of Vlog Gumbo are published under a creative commons
      license. If I own anything it is only the title, Vlog Gumbo, and my
      own "in-between" segments. As such, those segments are offered for
      republication under the terms of the CC license as noted on my website
      and at the end of each episode of Vlog Gumbo.

      NOTE: If you want to use one of the highlighted segments for profit,
      please contact the vlogger via the website links posted with each
      episode of Vlog Gumbo.

      MY RANT: No one has the right to use my or anyone else's work to
      derive a profit without prior agreement with the copyright holder. I
      believe in fair-use: use my vlogs but please mention its source. If
      you intend to profit from my work, you do NOT have my permission.

      I believe this is in keeping with the spirit of the vlogosphere. We
      all love vlogging and want to share our works with others. It's okay
      to remix, mash-up, or whatever with our vlogs, but do not assume that
      you own our works.

      PROMOTE not PROFIT!

      NOTE: I am not a lawyer, nor do I pretend to fully understand
      copyright laws. I am simply a vlogger who enjoys other vlogs and who
      wants to help "spread the word."

      I hope you enjoy each episode of Vlog Gumbo.


      Chuck

      Vlog Gumbo
      http://vloggumbo.blogspot.com

      Chuck's Vlog
      http://runchuckrun.blogspot.com
    • Heath
      I don t think anyone was saying that someone could just rip a video from someone s other vlog and then use it in a for profit project......I know I was
      Message 2 of 23 , Jul 31, 2006
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        I don't think anyone was saying that someone could just "rip" a video
        from someone's other vlog and then use it in a "for profit"
        project......I know I was only speaking directly about if
        someone "gives" you a clip as part of a collabration.....

        Heath - The Batman Geek
        http://batmangeek7.blogspot.com


        --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Leggett"
        <chucksvlog@...> wrote:
        >
        > I've followed the recent discussions concerning copyright and fair
        use
        > and would like to establish the following guidelines for episodes
        > posted as "Vlog Gumbo."
        >
        > Vlog Gumbo is and will always remain a not-for-profit project. My
        > intention is simply to help promote fellow vloggers and to highlight
        > my favorite vlog episodes.
        >
        > Vlog Gumbo will NEVER include paid ads or in any way "make a
        profit."
        >
        > All episodes of Vlog Gumbo are published under a creative commons
        > license. If I own anything it is only the title, Vlog Gumbo, and my
        > own "in-between" segments. As such, those segments are offered for
        > republication under the terms of the CC license as noted on my
        website
        > and at the end of each episode of Vlog Gumbo.
        >
        > NOTE: If you want to use one of the highlighted segments for profit,
        > please contact the vlogger via the website links posted with each
        > episode of Vlog Gumbo.
        >
        > MY RANT: No one has the right to use my or anyone else's work to
        > derive a profit without prior agreement with the copyright holder. I
        > believe in fair-use: use my vlogs but please mention its source. If
        > you intend to profit from my work, you do NOT have my permission.
        >
        > I believe this is in keeping with the spirit of the vlogosphere. We
        > all love vlogging and want to share our works with others. It's okay
        > to remix, mash-up, or whatever with our vlogs, but do not assume
        that
        > you own our works.
        >
        > PROMOTE not PROFIT!
        >
        > NOTE: I am not a lawyer, nor do I pretend to fully understand
        > copyright laws. I am simply a vlogger who enjoys other vlogs and who
        > wants to help "spread the word."
        >
        > I hope you enjoy each episode of Vlog Gumbo.
        >
        >
        > Chuck
        >
        > Vlog Gumbo
        > http://vloggumbo.blogspot.com
        >
        > Chuck's Vlog
        > http://runchuckrun.blogspot.com
        >
      • Chuck Leggett
        Yes, I understand your point from the other thread; that s why I wanted to start a different thread to examine the ramifications of promoting vlogs other than
        Message 3 of 23 , Jul 31, 2006
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          Yes, I understand your point from the other thread; that's why I wanted to start a different
          thread to examine the ramifications of promoting vlogs other than my own.

          As television catches on to the vlogosphere, I just wonder if other shows like "Web Junk
          (VH1)" will proliferate. After all, I believe we are creating the content that will fuel the new
          media.

          Thereby, I simply wanted to reestablish my committment to honor the spirit of fair-use.

          Chuck


          --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Heath" <heathparks@...> wrote:
          >
          > I don't think anyone was saying that someone could just "rip" a video
          > from someone's other vlog and then use it in a "for profit"
          > project......I know I was only speaking directly about if
          > someone "gives" you a clip as part of a collabration.....
          >
          > Heath - The Batman Geek
          > http://batmangeek7.blogspot.com
        • greg
          I have been following this, but I don t understand. If you have a show like VlogSoup, or VlogGumbo where you take bits of pieces of other vlogs to highlight
          Message 4 of 23 , Aug 1, 2006
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            I have been following this, but I don't understand.

            If you have a show like VlogSoup, or VlogGumbo where you take bits of pieces of other vlogs to highlight them, then is that ok?  What if you *gasp* make some money off the clip (uploaded to revver for instance)?

            It sounds like from this string that stealing peoples clips for a vlogsoup type show would not be a good thing?  What are the *rules*? 

            Isn't it ok to use copyrighted material if it is in a parody?  Is vlogsoup or vloggumbo a parody?

            Just wondering as it seems that people are all up in arms about this issue.  Seems pretty simple to me...  If you give someone a clip, you should assume that they are going to use it in their work.  If you have a problem with that, don't give out the clip.

            Speaking of parodies, I did a ZeFrank parody  and I talk about the inspiration of my Veggie Car.  It is the most I have used editing to make a post more intersting...  (Besides my dance clip of Tangled up Tubes )...  Editing is fun, but boy, it makes the creation process much longer!

            Greg
            gregsvideoblog.blogspot.com
             

            --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Heath" <heathparks@...> wrote:
            >
            > I don't think anyone was saying that someone could just "rip" a video
            > from someone's other vlog and then use it in a "for profit"
            > project......I know I was only speaking directly about if
            > someone "gives" you a clip as part of a collabration.....
            >
            > Heath - The Batman Geek
            > http://batmangeek7.blogspot.com
            >
            >
            > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Leggett"
            > chucksvlog@ wrote:
            > >
            > > I've followed the recent discussions concerning copyright and fair
            > use
            > > and would like to establish the following guidelines for episodes
            > > posted as "Vlog Gumbo."
            > >
            > > Vlog Gumbo is and will always remain a not-for-profit project. My
            > > intention is simply to help promote fellow vloggers and to highlight
            > > my favorite vlog episodes.
            > >
            > > Vlog Gumbo will NEVER include paid ads or in any way "make a
            > profit."
            > >
            > > All episodes of Vlog Gumbo are published under a creative commons
            > > license. If I own anything it is only the title, Vlog Gumbo, and my
            > > own "in-between" segments. As such, those segments are offered for
            > > republication under the terms of the CC license as noted on my
            > website
            > > and at the end of each episode of Vlog Gumbo.
            > >
            > > NOTE: If you want to use one of the highlighted segments for profit,
            > > please contact the vlogger via the website links posted with each
            > > episode of Vlog Gumbo.
            > >
            > > MY RANT: No one has the right to use my or anyone else's work to
            > > derive a profit without prior agreement with the copyright holder. I
            > > believe in fair-use: use my vlogs but please mention its source. If
            > > you intend to profit from my work, you do NOT have my permission.
            > >
            > > I believe this is in keeping with the spirit of the vlogosphere. We
            > > all love vlogging and want to share our works with others. It's okay
            > > to remix, mash-up, or whatever with our vlogs, but do not assume
            > that
            > > you own our works.
            > >
            > > PROMOTE not PROFIT!
            > >
            > > NOTE: I am not a lawyer, nor do I pretend to fully understand
            > > copyright laws. I am simply a vlogger who enjoys other vlogs and who
            > > wants to help "spread the word."
            > >
            > > I hope you enjoy each episode of Vlog Gumbo.
            > >
            > >
            > > Chuck
            > >
            > > Vlog Gumbo
            > > http://vloggumbo.blogspot.com
            > >
            > > Chuck's Vlog
            > > http://runchuckrun.blogspot.com
            > >
            >

          • Heath
            ... no I believe those are mash ups, but to answer your first question, that falls under fair use, which in itself can get sticky....even though it
            Message 5 of 23 , Aug 1, 2006
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              > Isn't it ok to use copyrighted material if it is in a parody? Is
              > vlogsoup or vloggumbo a parody?

              no I believe those are mash ups, but to answer your first question,
              that falls under fair use, which in itself can get sticky....even
              though it shouldn't....copyright law is a mess....at least here in
              the U.S. mainly because of media compainies IMO......

              For me, this whole "issue" has let me to understand a bit more than I
              did before and it will make me think very carefully if/when I ever do
              a collaboration.....

              Heath - The Batman Geek
              http://batmangeek7.blogspot.com

              --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "greg" <gregory@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > I have been following this, but I don't understand.
              >
              > If you have a show like VlogSoup, or VlogGumbo where you take bits
              of
              > pieces of other vlogs to highlight them, then is that ok? What if
              you
              > *gasp* make some money off the clip (uploaded to revver for
              instance)?
              >
              > It sounds like from this string that stealing peoples clips for a
              > vlogsoup type show would not be a good thing? What are the *rules*?
              >
              > Isn't it ok to use copyrighted material if it is in a parody? Is
              > vlogsoup or vloggumbo a parody?
              >
              > Just wondering as it seems that people are all up in arms about this
              > issue. Seems pretty simple to me... If you give someone a clip,
              you
              > should assume that they are going to use it in their work. If you
              have
              > a problem with that, don't give out the clip.
              >
              > Speaking of parodies, I did a ZeFrank parody
              > <http://gregsvideoblog.blogspot.com/2006/07/video-blog-27-why-i-got-
              my-v\
              > eggie-car.html> and I talk about the inspiration of my Veggie
              Car. It
              > is the most I have used editing to make a post more intersting...
              > (Besides my dance clip of Tangled up Tubes
              > <http://gregsvideoblog.blogspot.com/2006/07/tangled-up-
              tubes.html> )...
              > Editing is fun, but boy, it makes the creation process much longer!
              >
              > Greg
              > gregsvideoblog.blogspot.com
              > <http://gregsvideoblog.blogspot.com/>
              > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Heath" <heathparks@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I don't think anyone was saying that someone could just "rip" a
              video
              > > from someone's other vlog and then use it in a "for profit"
              > > project......I know I was only speaking directly about if
              > > someone "gives" you a clip as part of a collabration.....
              > >
              > > Heath - The Batman Geek
              > > http://batmangeek7.blogspot.com
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Leggett"
              > > chucksvlog@ wrote:
              > > >
              > > > I've followed the recent discussions concerning copyright and
              fair
              > > use
              > > > and would like to establish the following guidelines for
              episodes
              > > > posted as "Vlog Gumbo."
              > > >
              > > > Vlog Gumbo is and will always remain a not-for-profit project.
              My
              > > > intention is simply to help promote fellow vloggers and to
              highlight
              > > > my favorite vlog episodes.
              > > >
              > > > Vlog Gumbo will NEVER include paid ads or in any way "make a
              > > profit."
              > > >
              > > > All episodes of Vlog Gumbo are published under a creative
              commons
              > > > license. If I own anything it is only the title, Vlog Gumbo,
              and my
              > > > own "in-between" segments. As such, those segments are offered
              for
              > > > republication under the terms of the CC license as noted on my
              > > website
              > > > and at the end of each episode of Vlog Gumbo.
              > > >
              > > > NOTE: If you want to use one of the highlighted segments for
              profit,
              > > > please contact the vlogger via the website links posted with
              each
              > > > episode of Vlog Gumbo.
              > > >
              > > > MY RANT: No one has the right to use my or anyone else's work to
              > > > derive a profit without prior agreement with the copyright
              holder. I
              > > > believe in fair-use: use my vlogs but please mention its
              source. If
              > > > you intend to profit from my work, you do NOT have my
              permission.
              > > >
              > > > I believe this is in keeping with the spirit of the
              vlogosphere. We
              > > > all love vlogging and want to share our works with others. It's
              okay
              > > > to remix, mash-up, or whatever with our vlogs, but do not assume
              > > that
              > > > you own our works.
              > > >
              > > > PROMOTE not PROFIT!
              > > >
              > > > NOTE: I am not a lawyer, nor do I pretend to fully understand
              > > > copyright laws. I am simply a vlogger who enjoys other vlogs
              and who
              > > > wants to help "spread the word."
              > > >
              > > > I hope you enjoy each episode of Vlog Gumbo.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Chuck
              > > >
              > > > Vlog Gumbo
              > > > http://vloggumbo.blogspot.com
              > > >
              > > > Chuck's Vlog
              > > > http://runchuckrun.blogspot.com
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • Chuck Leggett
              The rules as I see it are explained by this license which is usually attached to vlogs or posted on the website:
              Message 6 of 23 , Aug 1, 2006
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                The "rules" as I see it are explained by this license which is usually
                attached to vlogs or posted on the website:

                http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/

                Obviously, you are free to license your work as you see fit, but in
                Vlog Gumbo I try to highlight only those vlogs which ascribe to the
                above license.

                For the record, Vlog Gumbo is not intended to be a parody. (Hmmm...
                maybe it should be!?)



                --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "greg" <gregory@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > I have been following this, but I don't understand.
                >
                > If you have a show like VlogSoup, or VlogGumbo where you take bits of
                > pieces of other vlogs to highlight them, then is that ok? What if you
                > *gasp* make some money off the clip (uploaded to revver for instance)?
                >
                > It sounds like from this string that stealing peoples clips for a
                > vlogsoup type show would not be a good thing? What are the *rules*?
                >
                > Isn't it ok to use copyrighted material if it is in a parody? Is
                > vlogsoup or vloggumbo a parody?
                >
                > Just wondering as it seems that people are all up in arms about this
                > issue. Seems pretty simple to me... If you give someone a clip, you
                > should assume that they are going to use it in their work. If you have
                > a problem with that, don't give out the clip.
                >
                > Speaking of parodies, I did a ZeFrank parody
                >
                <http://gregsvideoblog.blogspot.com/2006/07/video-blog-27-why-i-got-my-v\
                > eggie-car.html> and I talk about the inspiration of my Veggie Car. It
                > is the most I have used editing to make a post more intersting...
                > (Besides my dance clip of Tangled up Tubes
                > <http://gregsvideoblog.blogspot.com/2006/07/tangled-up-tubes.html> )...
                > Editing is fun, but boy, it makes the creation process much longer!
                >
                > Greg
                > gregsvideoblog.blogspot.com
                > <http://gregsvideoblog.blogspot.com/>
                > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Heath" <heathparks@> wrote:
              • Markus Sandy
                ... Producers or creators of parodies of a copyrighted work have been sued for infringement by the targets of their
                Message 7 of 23 , Aug 1, 2006
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                  greg wrote:

                  Isn't it ok to use copyrighted material if it is in a parody?

                  Producers or creators of parodies of a copyrighted work have been sued for infringement by the targets of their ridicule, even though such use may be protected as fair use. The fair use cases addressing parodies distinguish between parodies — using a work in order to poke fun at or comment on the work itself — and satires — using a work to poke fun or comment on something else. Courts have been more willing to grant fair use protections to parodies than to satires, but the ultimate outcome in either circumstance will turn on the application of the four fair use factors.

                  In Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music, Inc. (1994), the Supreme Court recognized parody as a fair use, even when done for profit. Roy Orbison's publisher, Acuff-Rose Music Inc., had sued 2 Live Crew in 1989 for their use of Orbison's "Oh, Pretty Woman" in a mocking rap version with altered lyrics. The Supreme Court viewed 2 Live Crew's version as a ridiculing commentary on the earlier work, and ruled that when the parody was itself the product rather than used for mere advertising, commercial sale did not bar the defense. The Campbell court also distinguished parodies from satire, which they described as a broader social critique not intrinsically tied to ridicule of a specific work, and so not deserving of the same use exceptions as parody because the satirist's ideas are capable of expression without the use of the other particular work.

                  In a more recent parody case, Suntrust v. Houghton Mifflin, a suit was brought unsuccessfully against the publication of The Wind Done Gone, which reused many of the characters and situations from Gone with the Wind, but told the events from the point of view of the slaves rather than the slaveholders. The Eleventh Circuit, applying Campbell, recognized that The Wind Done Gone was a protected parody, and vacated the district court's injunction against its publication.


                  from

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#Fair_use_and_parody



                  -- 
                  
                  
                  Markus Sandy
                  
                  http://apperceptions.org
                  http://spinflow.org
                • Gary Rosenzweig
                  ... So what about our show? Podcast Salad. We certainly are NOT a not-for-profit venture. We have ads on the site. One day we will have ads in the show. Would
                  Message 8 of 23 , Aug 1, 2006
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                    On 7/31/06, Chuck Leggett <chucksvlog@...> wrote:

                    MY RANT: No one has the right to use my or anyone else's work to
                    derive a profit without prior agreement with the copyright holder. I
                    believe in fair-use: use my vlogs but please mention its source. If
                    you intend to profit from my work, you do NOT have my permission.

                    So what about our show? Podcast Salad.
                    We certainly are NOT a not-for-profit venture. We have ads on the site. One day we will have ads in the show.
                    Would you not want your vlog featured on Podcast Salad then?

                    What if CNN or MSNBC showed a clip from your vlog? Would you balk at that too since both show ads?

                    PROMOTE not PROFIT!

                    What about both?
                     
                    Does anyone here have a problem with a show like Podcast Salad featuring clips from their video podcasts?

                    --
                    Gary Rosenzweig
                    CleverMedia TV
                    http://clevermedia.tv
                  • Lan Bui
                    Ooohh!!! Hot topic!!!! I feel that at this point in my video blogs, and video blogs that I work on, if some MSM outlet showed and talked about it I would love
                    Message 9 of 23 , Aug 1, 2006
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                      Ooohh!!! Hot topic!!!!

                      I feel that at this point in my video blogs, and video blogs that I work on, if some MSM outlet showed and talked about it I would love it! That would be great exposure.

                      That is a big difference than puting them on a site with ads arround it and just profiting.

                      Even though www.NoodleScar.com was on poscast salad and there were ads around and now there are ads on the site, I like the potential exposure. I don't feel ripped off.

                      This is just how I feel for now, I think if I start to feel like someone is ripping me off I'll think different.

                      -Lan
                      www.LanBui.com
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: "Gary Rosenzweig" <rosenz@...>
                      Date: Tuesday, Aug 1, 2006 10:16 am
                      Subject: Re: [videoblogging] Copyrights/Collaborations & Vlog Gumb

                      On 7/31/06, Chuck Leggett <chucksvlog@...> wrote:

                      MY RANT: No one has the right to use my or anyone else's work to
                      derive a profit without prior agreement with the copyright holder. I
                      believe in fair-use: use my vlogs but please mention its source. If
                      you intend to profit from my work, you do NOT have my permission.


                      So what about our show? Podcast Salad.
                      We certainly are NOT a not-for-profit venture. We have ads on the site. One day we will have ads in the show.
                      Would you not want your vlog featured on Podcast Salad then?


                      What if CNN or MSNBC showed a clip from your vlog? Would you balk at that too since both show ads?

                      PROMOTE not PROFIT!

                      What about both?

                      Does anyone here have a problem with a show like Podcast Salad featuring clips from their video podcasts?

                      --
                      Gary Rosenzweig
                      CleverMedia TV

                      http://clevermedia.tv



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                    • Chuck Leggett
                      ... site. One ... I m not familiar with Podcast Salad, but I will check it out. I just want to make clear that the clips that I highlight in Vlog Gumbo do not
                      Message 10 of 23 , Aug 1, 2006
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                        > So what about our show? Podcast Salad.
                        > We certainly are NOT a not-for-profit venture. We have ads on the
                        site. One
                        > day we will have ads in the show.

                        I'm not familiar with Podcast Salad, but I will check it out.

                        I just want to make clear that the clips that I highlight in Vlog
                        Gumbo do not belong to me, so therefore I would never try to profit
                        from them. I am trying to abide by the license that the vlogs are
                        published under.

                        > Would you not want your vlog featured on Podcast Salad then?

                        If you are refering to Vlog Gumbo, then I could not agree to any kind
                        of promotion that profits from the work of others without first
                        securing their agreement to do so.

                        Chuck's Vlog, then, is a different matter because I am the copyright
                        owner for the vlogs; I welcome your consideration to help promote my site.

                        Would you object to having Podcast Salad highlighted on Vlog Gumbo? :)

                        >
                        > What if CNN or MSNBC showed a clip from your vlog? Would you balk at
                        that
                        > too since both show ads?

                        This is an excellent question, and the main reason I posted this
                        thread. It boils down to promotion vs. profit. In the case of CNN or
                        MSNBC highlighting one of my clips, I would have to believe it was
                        done for pure profit motive, because I can see no reason they would
                        want to promote the vlogosphere (outside of trying to make money from
                        it).

                        But it would be an excellent promotional tool to help grow the
                        vlogosphere, there is no doubt.

                        Tough call to make...

                        > Does anyone here have a problem with a show like Podcast Salad featuring
                        > clips from their video podcasts?

                        I have no reason to believe that you are unethical or will try to
                        rip-off anyone. It's an interesting subject and you raise some
                        excellent points.

                        Chuck
                      • valdezatron
                        I think most people would agree that if you have a site that is generating revenue and it features the work of others, it is your (Podcast Salad s)
                        Message 11 of 23 , Aug 1, 2006
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                          I think most people would agree that if you have a site that is
                          generating revenue and it features the work of others, it is your
                          (Podcast Salad's) responsibility to obtain consent from the vlogger.

                          Certainly people are willing to allow use of their work for free in
                          order to get free press and promotion, but it should go through the
                          approval process every time (especially if $ is involved).

                          AV
                          http://www.aaronvaldez.com/vlog
                          http://www.valdezatron.com



                          > So what about our show? Podcast Salad.
                          > We certainly are NOT a not-for-profit venture. We have ads on the
                          site. One
                          > day we will have ads in the show.
                          > Would you not want your vlog featured on Podcast Salad then?
                          >
                          > What if CNN or MSNBC showed a clip from your vlog? Would you balk at
                          that
                          > too since both show ads?
                          >
                          > PROMOTE not PROFIT!
                          >
                          >
                          > What about both?
                          >
                          > Does anyone here have a problem with a show like Podcast Salad featuring
                          > clips from their video podcasts?
                          >
                          > --
                          > Gary Rosenzweig
                          > CleverMedia TV
                          > http://clevermedia.tv
                          >
                        • Casey McKinnon
                          If you re profiting over the use of a video whose license clearly states ND, you are clearly breaking the law. Podcast Salad better contact everyone in
                          Message 12 of 23 , Aug 1, 2006
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                            If you're profiting over the use of a video whose license clearly
                            states ND, you are clearly breaking the law. Podcast Salad better
                            contact everyone in advance like any television network, ask for
                            permission from the content creator and have them fill out a form to
                            waive the ND clause of their license for profitable use on Podcast Salad.

                            Casey

                            ---
                            Galacticast ~ Sci-Fi Lo-Fi
                            http://www.galacticast.com/


                            --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "valdezatron" <valdezfilm@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > I think most people would agree that if you have a site that is
                            > generating revenue and it features the work of others, it is your
                            > (Podcast Salad's) responsibility to obtain consent from the vlogger.
                            >
                            > Certainly people are willing to allow use of their work for free in
                            > order to get free press and promotion, but it should go through the
                            > approval process every time (especially if $ is involved).
                            >
                            > AV
                            > http://www.aaronvaldez.com/vlog
                            > http://www.valdezatron.com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > > So what about our show? Podcast Salad.
                            > > We certainly are NOT a not-for-profit venture. We have ads on the
                            > site. One
                            > > day we will have ads in the show.
                            > > Would you not want your vlog featured on Podcast Salad then?
                            > >
                            > > What if CNN or MSNBC showed a clip from your vlog? Would you balk at
                            > that
                            > > too since both show ads?
                            > >
                            > > PROMOTE not PROFIT!
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > What about both?
                            > >
                            > > Does anyone here have a problem with a show like Podcast Salad
                            featuring
                            > > clips from their video podcasts?
                            > >
                            > > --
                            > > Gary Rosenzweig
                            > > CleverMedia TV
                            > > http://clevermedia.tv
                            > >
                            >
                          • Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen
                            On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 21:28:39 +0200, Casey McKinnon ... I ll assume that you mean NC and not ND. And not necessarily. If quotes from other videos are included
                            Message 13 of 23 , Aug 1, 2006
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                              On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 21:28:39 +0200, Casey McKinnon
                              <caseymckinnon@...> wrote:

                              > If you're profiting over the use of a video whose license clearly
                              > states ND, you are clearly breaking the law. Podcast Salad better
                              > contact everyone in advance like any television network, ask for
                              > permission from the content creator and have them fill out a form to
                              > waive the ND clause of their license for profitable use on Podcast Salad.

                              I'll assume that you mean NC and not ND.
                              And not necessarily. If quotes from other videos are included for the sake
                              of doing a review then it's covered by fair use. Having not seen podcast
                              salad it's impossible to tell. Also the NC clause does not prohibit any
                              kind of profiting only behaviour "that is primarily intended for or
                              directed toward commercial advantage or private monetary compensation."

                              My point is simply that it depends and you have to judge things on a
                              case-by-case basis.

                              --
                              Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen
                              <URL: http://www.solitude.dk/ >
                              Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology.
                            • Markus Sandy
                              not quite no matter what license is in place, fair use generally allows one to quote from any original source for review purposes this has nothing to do with
                              Message 14 of 23 , Aug 1, 2006
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                                not quite

                                no matter what license is in place, fair use generally allows one to "quote" from any original source for review purposes

                                this has nothing to do with for profit or not

                                also, when you do violate copyright, i don't believe you're breaking a law (it's a civil court issue, not criminal - at least here in the US)





                                Casey McKinnon wrote:

                                If you're profiting over the use of a video whose license clearly
                                states ND, you are clearly breaking the law. Podcast Salad better
                                contact everyone in advance like any television network, ask for
                                permission from the content creator and have them fill out a form to
                                waive the ND clause of their license for profitable use on Podcast Salad.

                                -- 
                                
                                
                                Markus Sandy
                                
                                http://apperceptions.org
                                http://spinflow.org
                              • Casey McKinnon
                                That s nice, but last time I checked Podcast Salad wasn t a review show, it was a look at this show. Wouldn t a review show need... I don t know... a
                                Message 15 of 23 , Aug 1, 2006
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                                  That's nice, but last time I checked Podcast Salad wasn't a review
                                  show, it was a "look at this" show. Wouldn't a review show need... I
                                  don't know... a review? In a court of law, I doubt "look at this"
                                  constitutes a definition of the term "review".

                                  Thanks for correcting me, Andreas, I did mean to type NC.

                                  Casey

                                  ---
                                  Galacticast ~ Sci-Fi Lo-Fi
                                  http://www.galacticast.com/

                                  --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Markus Sandy <markus@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > not quite
                                  >
                                  > no matter what license is in place, fair use generally allows one to
                                  > "quote" from any original source for review purposes
                                  >
                                  > this has nothing to do with for profit or not
                                  >
                                  > also, when you do violate copyright, i don't believe you're breaking a
                                  > law (it's a civil court issue, not criminal - at least here in the US)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Casey McKinnon wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > If you're profiting over the use of a video whose license clearly
                                  > > states ND, you are clearly breaking the law. Podcast Salad better
                                  > > contact everyone in advance like any television network, ask for
                                  > > permission from the content creator and have them fill out a form to
                                  > > waive the ND clause of their license for profitable use on Podcast
                                  Salad.
                                  > >
                                  > --
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Markus Sandy
                                  >
                                  > http://apperceptions.org
                                  > http://spinflow.org
                                  >
                                • Gary Rosenzweig
                                  ... That is something we considered when we started, but it was deemed impossible. There just isn t enough time to produce the show that way. We couldn t write
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Aug 1, 2006
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                                    <caseymckinnon@...> wrote:
                                    > Podcast Salad better
                                    > contact everyone in advance like any television network, ask for
                                    > permission from the content creator and have them fill out a form to

                                    That is something we considered when we started, but it was deemed impossible. There just isn't enough time to produce the show that way. We couldn't write the show, then wait for approvals, and then shoot and edit and still have it done in a week. Vloggers and video podcasters simply don't have "front offices" where "our people can contact their people" for approval.

                                    On 8/1/06, Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen < ahpe01@...> wrote:
                                    And not necessarily. If quotes from other videos are included for the sake
                                    of doing a review then it's covered by fair use.

                                    This is exactly what we decided to go with: fair use. We are showing "clips" of shows to essentially promote them. We couldn't think of a good reason why someone would not want to be featured on Podcast Salad. We try to never show too much, so the viewer doesn't feel they don't need to watch the actual video podcast. We should always create a positive flow TO the video podcasts we feature. Why wouldn't we?
                                    But we do spend about 20 work-hours writing and producing Podcast Salad, so we want to recoup and profit from that effort.

                                    --
                                    Gary Rosenzweig
                                    CleverMedia
                                    rosenz@...
                                  • Markus Sandy
                                    i haven t looked at that show, but sounds like siskel and ebert from your discription - those were reviews and they said look at this (or don t look at
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Aug 1, 2006
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                                      i haven't looked at that show, but sounds like siskel and ebert from your discription - those were reviews and they said "look at this" (or "don't look at this")

                                      i wonder if they licenced each clip (more likely, the studios pushed the clips on to them with licences attached!)

                                      Casey McKinnon wrote:

                                      That's nice, but last time I checked Podcast Salad wasn't a review
                                      show, it was a "look at this" show. Wouldn't a review show need... I
                                      don't know... a review? In a court of law, I doubt "look at this"
                                      constitutes a definition of the term "review".

                                      Thanks for correcting me, Andreas, I did mean to type NC.

                                      Casey

                                      ---
                                      Galacticast ~ Sci-Fi Lo-Fi
                                      http://www.galactic ast.com/

                                      --- In videoblogging@ yahoogroups. com, Markus Sandy <markus@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > not quite
                                      >
                                      > no matter what license is in place, fair use generally allows one to
                                      > "quote" from any original source for review purposes
                                      >
                                      > this has nothing to do with for profit or not
                                      >
                                      > also, when you do violate copyright, i don't believe you're breaking a
                                      > law (it's a civil court issue, not criminal - at least here in the US)
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Casey McKinnon wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > If you're profiting over the use of a video whose license clearly
                                      > > states ND, you are clearly breaking the law. Podcast Salad better
                                      > > contact everyone in advance like any television network, ask for
                                      > > permission from the content creator and have them fill out a form to
                                      > > waive the ND clause of their license for profitable use on Podcast
                                      Salad.
                                      > >
                                      > --
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Markus Sandy
                                      >
                                      > http://apperception s.org
                                      > http://spinflow. org
                                      >


                                      -- 
                                      
                                      
                                      Markus Sandy
                                      
                                      http://apperceptions.org
                                      http://spinflow.org
                                    • Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen
                                      On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 22:14:44 +0200, Markus Sandy ... The usual deal (at least in this neck of the woods) [1] is that movie studios provide television programs
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Aug 1, 2006
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                                        On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 22:14:44 +0200, Markus Sandy
                                        <markus@...> wrote:

                                        > i wonder if they licenced each clip (more likely, the studios pushed the
                                        > clips on to them with licences attached!)

                                        The usual deal (at least in this neck of the woods) [1] is that movie
                                        studios provide television programs with a selection of clips they can
                                        choose from. Which is why you see the same clips in all movie reviews. One
                                        local exception was the Danish review show "Bogart" (1985-2002) who would
                                        not review a movie unless they got full control over which clips to show
                                        during the program - and since they were the only movie review tv-show in
                                        the country at the time they got what they wanted. I guess it pays to play
                                        hardball sometimes. :o)

                                        [1] I have this from a talk by the host of "Bogart" that I went to a
                                        couple of years ago.

                                        --
                                        Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen
                                        <URL: http://www.solitude.dk/ >
                                        Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology.
                                      • Casey McKinnon
                                        ... way. We ... edit ... simply don t ... Gary- since you re turning your show into a business, it would be best to do the responsible thing and contact the
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Aug 1, 2006
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                                          --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Rosenzweig" <rosenz@...>
                                          wrote:
                                          >
                                          > > > Podcast Salad better
                                          > > > contact everyone in advance like any television network, ask for
                                          > > > permission from the content creator and have them fill out a form to
                                          >
                                          > That is something we considered when we started, but it was deemed
                                          > impossible. There just isn't enough time to produce the show that
                                          way. We
                                          > couldn't write the show, then wait for approvals, and then shoot and
                                          edit
                                          > and still have it done in a week. Vloggers and video podcasters
                                          simply don't
                                          > have "front offices" where "our people can contact their people" for
                                          > approval.

                                          Gary- since you're turning your show into a business, it would be best
                                          to do the responsible thing and contact the content owners for
                                          permission. Here are ways to do that:

                                          - Most vloggers provide some way to contact them (e-mail on their
                                          blog), some of them even include a phone number;
                                          - If you can't contact them by e-mail, try leaving a comment or
                                          searching to see if they're on another 2.0 site (MySpace comes to mind);
                                          - Start writing your shows at least a couple of weeks in advance and
                                          get in touch with the content owners at the same time or earlier;
                                          - If you're having problems finding contact info, search for domain
                                          owners on WhoIs or ask the videoblogging group if they can help.

                                          > And not necessarily. If quotes from other videos are included for
                                          the sake
                                          > > of doing a review then it's covered by fair use.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > This is exactly what we decided to go with: fair use. We are showing
                                          "clips"
                                          > of shows to essentially promote them. We couldn't think of a good
                                          reason why
                                          > someone would not want to be featured on Podcast Salad. We try to
                                          never show
                                          > too much, so the viewer doesn't feel they don't need to watch the actual
                                          > video podcast. We should always create a positive flow TO the video
                                          podcasts
                                          > we feature. Why wouldn't we?
                                          > But we do spend about 20 work-hours writing and producing Podcast
                                          Salad, so
                                          > we want to recoup and profit from that effort.

                                          If you really want to claim "fair use" you should make sure that you
                                          write a review, don't just direct people to videoblogs... be a real
                                          bonafide critic.

                                          Just because you spend 20 hours producing your show doesn't mean it's
                                          acceptable to use other people's content for profit. This is why it
                                          would be prudent for you to contact people in advance if you plan to
                                          disregard their license. You may do it with good intentions, but that
                                          doesn't hold up in a court of law.

                                          Casey

                                          ---
                                          Galacticast ~ Sci-Fi Lo-Fi
                                          http://www.galacticast.com/



                                          > --
                                          > Gary Rosenzweig
                                        • greg
                                          So, it seems that you can use clips from blogs if they fall under Fair Use ... Ok, got that part to mean you can show a clip as long as you give credit to the
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Aug 1, 2006
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                                            So, it seems that you can use clips from blogs if they fall under "Fair Use"... 

                                            Ok, got that part to mean you can show a clip as long as you give credit to the creator...

                                            However, are you still violating the Creative Commons license?  I don't do the CC thing, but I seem to have read somewhere along the line that says if you use a video that has a CC license, then you have to include the whole video including the part with the CC license? (I take that to mean the little logo at the end) If this is the case, how can you use just a clip, since the license states you have to use the whole video including the part that has the CC license logo? (Maybe I am reading that part wrong?)

                                            Me personally, I subscribe to the idea that I don't care what people do with my stuff.... Until it gets "very popular".  If my works suddenly start to make someone else enough money that it is worth my time to "go after them to get some of that money" then I will cross that bridge when I get to it.

                                            To answer the other question that Heath brought up on "Where to get music"...

                                            I get my music from my musician friends (Go SwampDweller!).  I also search the web for my favorite "unknown" bands to see if they have posted any free MP3's on the web.  I figure if they have a free MP3 posted, then they don't care if I use it, as long as I give them a plug (I am sure this logic is not good logic, but we will see what happens).

                                            For example, check out OM Trio .  These guys were one of my favorites, but they broke up.  Even though they broke up, they still have their music posted on the web.  I feel that this is pretty "safe" to use, since if I make something that is very popular and get their band's name out there, then it is a good thing. (They broke up because they just could not make money touring anymore- if suddenly their name got out to everyone, they would be stoked).

                                            Also, I look for bands that allow people to tape their shows and then I use the taped music.

                                            Heath, if you are really looking for music to use, I give you permission to use the stuff I made and posted.  It is crap, but feel free to use it all.  You can find it at feltonjamhouse.com 

                                            Just my thoughts.

                                            Greg.
                                            gregsvideoblog.blogspot.com 

                                             

                                             


                                            --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Casey McKinnon" <caseymckinnon@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Rosenzweig" rosenz@
                                            > wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > > > Podcast Salad better
                                            > > > > contact everyone in advance like any television network, ask for
                                            > > > > permission from the content creator and have them fill out a form to
                                            > >
                                            > > That is something we considered when we started, but it was deemed
                                            > > impossible. There just isn't enough time to produce the show that
                                            > way. We
                                            > > couldn't write the show, then wait for approvals, and then shoot and
                                            > edit
                                            > > and still have it done in a week. Vloggers and video podcasters
                                            > simply don't
                                            > > have "front offices" where "our people can contact their people" for
                                            > > approval.
                                            >
                                            > Gary- since you're turning your show into a business, it would be best
                                            > to do the responsible thing and contact the content owners for
                                            > permission. Here are ways to do that:
                                            >
                                            > - Most vloggers provide some way to contact them (e-mail on their
                                            > blog), some of them even include a phone number;
                                            > - If you can't contact them by e-mail, try leaving a comment or
                                            > searching to see if they're on another 2.0 site (MySpace comes to mind);
                                            > - Start writing your shows at least a couple of weeks in advance and
                                            > get in touch with the content owners at the same time or earlier;
                                            > - If you're having problems finding contact info, search for domain
                                            > owners on WhoIs or ask the videoblogging group if they can help.
                                            >
                                            > > And not necessarily. If quotes from other videos are included for
                                            > the sake
                                            > > > of doing a review then it's covered by fair use.
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > This is exactly what we decided to go with: fair use. We are showing
                                            > "clips"
                                            > > of shows to essentially promote them. We couldn't think of a good
                                            > reason why
                                            > > someone would not want to be featured on Podcast Salad. We try to
                                            > never show
                                            > > too much, so the viewer doesn't feel they don't need to watch the actual
                                            > > video podcast. We should always create a positive flow TO the video
                                            > podcasts
                                            > > we feature. Why wouldn't we?
                                            > > But we do spend about 20 work-hours writing and producing Podcast
                                            > Salad, so
                                            > > we want to recoup and profit from that effort.
                                            >
                                            > If you really want to claim "fair use" you should make sure that you
                                            > write a review, don't just direct people to videoblogs... be a real
                                            > bonafide critic.
                                            >
                                            > Just because you spend 20 hours producing your show doesn't mean it's
                                            > acceptable to use other people's content for profit. This is why it
                                            > would be prudent for you to contact people in advance if you plan to
                                            > disregard their license. You may do it with good intentions, but that
                                            > doesn't hold up in a court of law.
                                            >
                                            > Casey
                                            >
                                            > ---
                                            > Galacticast ~ Sci-Fi Lo-Fi
                                            > http://www.galacticast.com/
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > > --
                                            > > Gary Rosenzweig
                                            >

                                          • wlight@weatherlight.com
                                            ... I don t know what vloggers you ve been dealing with, but most vloggers I ve run across have their email addresses available. They also have comments
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Aug 1, 2006
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                                              > That is something we considered when we started, but it was deemed
                                              > impossible. There just isn't enough time to produce the show that way. We
                                              > couldn't write the show, then wait for approvals, and then shoot and edit
                                              > and still have it done in a week. Vloggers and video podcasters simply don't
                                              > have "front offices" where "our people can contact their people" for
                                              > approval.

                                              I don't know what vloggers you've been dealing with, but most vloggers I've
                                              run across have their email addresses available. They also have "comments"
                                              sections, message fora, etc. Some have voicemail numbers. They make
                                              themselves available. If they don't respond to your queries, then don't
                                              feature them. I really can't see what you're saying here as being a
                                              legitimate excuse.

                                              I'm part of the production team for a public access TV show. The show is a
                                              talk show, and as such, it requires the cooperation of guests. Guests
                                              sometimes forget to return phone calls and generally throw spanners in the
                                              works. The way we dealt with this was to plan a show at least a couple
                                              weeks down the road and make sure we had guests, that we had alternate
                                              guests we could get together, etc. We still faithfully shot an episode a
                                              week, and had a live studio taping on top of it. By comparison, what
                                              you're doing is entirely possible.

                                              > This is exactly what we decided to go with: fair use. We are showing "clips"
                                              > of shows to essentially promote them. We couldn't think of a good reason why
                                              > someone would not want to be featured on Podcast Salad. We try to never show
                                              > too much, so the viewer doesn't feel they don't need to watch the actual
                                              > video podcast. We should always create a positive flow TO the video podcasts
                                              > we feature. Why wouldn't we?

                                              Promotion is not fair use. Review, commentary, parody, academic
                                              citation...those things are fair use. I haven't seen Podcast Salad, so I
                                              can't claim to know your format, but please don't make the mistake of "I
                                              think I'm doing someone a favor, so it's fair use." Content creators have
                                              a right to decide who promotes them and how.

                                              --
                                              Rhett.

                                              ---------------------------------------------
                                              This message was sent using Endymion MailMan.
                                              http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/
                                            • Gary Rosenzweig
                                              ... Turning my show into a business? Was it not a business before? - Most vloggers provide some way to contact them (e-mail on their ... Most do. But you d be
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Aug 1, 2006
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                                                On 8/1/06, Casey McKinnon <caseymckinnon@...> wrote:
                                                Gary- since you're turning your show into a business, it would be best
                                                to do the responsible thing and contact the content owners for
                                                permission.  Here are ways to do that:

                                                Turning my show into a business? Was it not a business before?

                                                - Most vloggers provide some way to contact them (e-mail on their
                                                blog), some of them even include a phone number;

                                                Most do. But you'd be surprised how many don't, or have bad email addresses, etc. I've tried to email people in advance (Thursday before a Friday show) while we are editing. I'd say about 20% of the time it isn't possible, and 50% of the time I never hear back. But 100% of the time I have heard back, we've made a friend, not an enemy. That has nothing to do with "law", but with the nature of what we are doing.

                                                - Start writing your shows at least a couple of weeks in advance and
                                                get in touch with the content owners at the same time or earlier;

                                                We're trying to be current. The idea behind the show is to let people find out what is going on in video podcasting, not what's old news.
                                                 
                                                If you really want to claim "fair use" you should make sure that you
                                                write a review, don't just direct people to videoblogs... be a real
                                                bonafide critic.

                                                Reviews aren't the only thing covered by fair use. We consider our show to be more of an entertainment news program.

                                                You are thinking of this fair use: "quotation of excerpts in a review or criticism for purposes of illustration or comment"
                                                We are thinking of this fair use: "summary of an address or article, with brief quotations, in a news report"

                                                Two of the key parts of fair use are to consider:
                                                1. amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole
                                                2. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

                                                That is why we only use a clip, and as short of a clip as possible. And that is why we make sure we are always trying to improve the potential market and value of the show we are talking about by promoting the show and directing people to it.

                                                Of course both of these things are easy to do, since it is the very nature of our show: short clips used to recommend video podcasts.

                                                --
                                                Gary Rosenzweig
                                                CleverMedia
                                                rosenz@...
                                              • Andreas Haugstrup
                                                ... No, only in certain circumstances. ... No. Fair Use is more complex than that. ... Fair Use precedes CC licenses and Fair Use certainly trumps it. If
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Aug 2, 2006
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                                                  On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 23:00:53 +0200, greg <gregory@...> wrote:

                                                  > So, it seems that you can use clips from blogs if they fall under "Fair
                                                  > Use"...

                                                  No, only in certain circumstances.

                                                  > Ok, got that part to mean you can show a clip as long as you give credit
                                                  > to the creator...

                                                  No. Fair Use is more complex than that.

                                                  > However, are you still violating the Creative Commons license?

                                                  Fair Use precedes CC licenses and Fair Use certainly trumps it. If
                                                  something is permitted under Fair USe it does not matter which license (if
                                                  any) is used. Fair Use is always allowed.

                                                  --
                                                  Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen
                                                  <URL: http://www.solitude.dk/ >
                                                  Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology.
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