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America Based on Christianity facts and why Republicans hate

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  • jerry
    You pointed out, and quoted from the Treaty of Tripoli, that this country was NOT founded on the Christian religion. And you are 100% correct. No one, that I m
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 31, 2009
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      You pointed out, and quoted from the Treaty of Tripoli, that this country was NOT founded on the Christian religion. And you are 100% correct. No one, that I'm aware of, ever said it was. It was founded on Christian VALUES! And since you're getting into history - Chritianity, in itself, is NOT a religion. It is a belief. Catholics belong to a religion. Baptists belong to a religion. Calvinists belong to a religion. Methodists belong to a religion. These, and many others, collectively are "Chritianity" because all believe in God and all of them worship the same God - but in their own way. For that matter, Mormons, Amish, and others are also "Christians" and they also worship the same God as other Christians; albeit their beliefs in many other ways are different, even at odds with other Christian religions.

      Jews belong to another religion - yet they also embrace Christian "VALUES" - not Chritianity itself. The atheists you mention in our Founding Fathers were NOT as numerous as you profess - and certainly were not in the majority. And none were Jews. And definitely none were Muslims because we were at war with Islam in 1783 - right after we gained full independence. And Islam itself DOES NOT embrace Christian values - you quote the Treaty of Tripoli. I have five translations of the Koran here, including the first English translation in 1907. What about the tenet of Islam that stipulates, in no uncertain terms, that non-Muslims have only THREE CHOICES - 1) convert to Islam, 2) do not convert, but submit to slavery to Islam and pay the taxes, and 3) do neither and die.

      You might want to read the Koran before you start defending the Democrap Party. And by the way, I'm neither Dem nor GOP. I've been totally disillusioned by both parts for decades - and get even more so as the years go by. I'm an Independent, as are all members of my family. And my family in Northern Ireland are also Independents because they are disillusioned with both the Labor and Conservative parties.

      And it's about time the archaic Electoral College was done away with completely. Past elections have shown, beyond reasonable doubt, that the popular vote is often NOT the vote that gets someone into the White House. If we're going to be a democracy, then let's get back to basics - the very basis of democratic government is MAJORITY RULES! We need to elect our officials by popular vote - not some political appointees or good old boys who can, and have been bought by one party or another to cast a vote that goes against the popular vote in their state.

      And the pandering to minority groups is the most corrupt way of getting into office, in my opinion. Even more than taking bribes. I've done some asking around, and the majority of blacks I've talked to had absolutely no idea at all about the issues involved - they voted for Hussein solely on the strength of color. But have you also noticed how conveniently everyone, especially the press, keeps going on about him being the first black president? Very convenient how they seem to forget he's also half white! And they also conveniently overlook his campaign remark about his mother being "a typical white person".

      But to come up to more recent happenings - what the hell is a US President doing sticking his nose into a purely local law enforcement issue in Cambridge, MA? He has NO BUSINESS involving himself in local law enforcement issues. But then, it was a white cop, and a black professor - wasn't it? And he was totally indoctrinated in the Chicago political machine of hate and anti-white politics. Give me a break - do you think his "pastor", the Rev. Wright, is someone you'd like to have indoctrinating a future US president for 20 years? "God Damn America". Remember that? Say what you will - but we now have an openly racist President. I don't recognize him as other than someone occupying the White House until a qualified human being is finally installed.

      Democratic values? You better look closer at the Democrap Party before you make that claim on their behalf. They are nothing but a bunch of anti-American, left-wing thugs out to destroy this country from within. And since Hussein got into the Oval Office, they've been doing a pretty good job of it. Go ahead, tell me how wonderful the gang of three really are - Obama, Pelosi and Reid. Congress has just about the lowest approval rating from the American people in it's history. And guess who controls Cogress? You got it - the Democraps! Still think they represent the American people? I don't think so.

      As a Staff Sgt. back from Aghanistan, are you in favor of Osama Obama's plan to MAKE military personnel - vets and active duty - pay for the own medical costs? Including injuries sustained in combat? When he was finally forced to back down from that, he was incredulous and made a statement that he couldn't understand why the military was so against it because it's an all-volunteer military and they all knew what they were volunteering for and should, therefore, be willing to pay their own medical bills. Do you agree with that? How about your comrades who came back here to save their lives. I suppose he'd also want them to pay for the cost of their Medevacs from Afghanistan or Iraq to Walter Reed. Why not? It's part of the medical cost, isn't it?

      What if you sustained a combat-related injury and were told, on your salary, that you had to pay $50,000 or more for your medical treatment because your Commie in Chief says you have to. Would you vote for him next time around? You might, if you still had the price of bus fare, and still alive because your medical care was cut off because the insurance ran out and you had no money to pay the bills.

      The last Democrap president, Slick Willy, is the reason my wife retired from the US Navy Reserve in 1995. She waited and submitted her papers the very day she was eligible for retirement - refusing promotion to E-8 because she refused to acknowledge Clinton as her C-in-C for one more day. I was lucky. I retired from 20 years active duty in the Navy in 1983 - when a good president and real American was still in the White House - Ronald Reagan. And yes, my wife put that down on her papers as her reason for retiring and refusing a promotion.

      Anyway, I've gone on far longer than I intended. And anyone on this list can tell you that I very, very rarely ever make any posts at all. But after reading yours, I had to speak up. And I don't "spew hate" - if anything, I "spew facts"! And I have a file on President Pantywaist (a name the British press has given him) that would choke a horse. See how he's been able to restore respect for America abroad? Our longest and closts ally, and arguably our "mother country", has dubbed him "President Pantywaist". Draw your own conclusions.

      Jerry
      PO1, USN, Ret (1963 - 1983)

      Gerard P. Keenan
      16 E. Beech St.
      Central Islip, NY 11722
      (631) 582-1262 (ph)
      (516) 768-9602 (mobile)
      secureops1@...
      gkeenan@...
      www.ic-humint.net
      ACT!For America, NYC/Long Island Chapter
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: stphnhamlin
      To: veterans@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 11:50 PM
      Subject: [veterans] America Based on Christianity facts and why Republicans hate


      I joined this group with the understanding that this was a place for Veterans issue. A place to discuss the problems that we are facing today as a new group of Veterans like myself are emerging from the sand blown deserts from across the world. I was mistaken.

      I have been receiving almost nothing but a HATRED of democratic values, the democratic president, and the democratic people since I have joined here. Why? Why are so focused on hating the democratic party and making slanderous accusations against the current government?

      I remember when we were in the middle of the Bush era, if someone spoke out against that administration they were labeled un-American. Can we not say the same with these cases as well? This is just disheartening to me that we are more focused on the hate aspect and finding FALSE information to spew out than actually giving PROOF and I mean actual PROOF of these acusations.

      The one thing that really gets me going and has been proven false through historical documentation, is the saying by the Rebublican base that America was founded by christians and only christian values. Please, look into this and actually find the truth before spreading lies about our nation.

      Our founding Fathers were Athiests, Diests, and a few christians. According to the Treaty of Tripoly signed on November 4th 1796 Article 11 states:

      As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

      There are also other occurances of this throughout our history. Please look at when In God We trust was put on our money, and when the Pledge of Allegience was ratified.

      We were not founded on Christianity. So please from a Veteran who might become homeless soon because I cannot find a job and I am going on about two years now. STOP SPEWING THE HATE HERE, we need more help then hatefull words and false accusations.

      SSG U.S. ARMY
      Afganistan Veteran




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      Gerard P. Keenan
      16 E. Beech St.
      Central Islip, NY 11722
      (631) 582-1262 (ph)
      (516) 768-9602 (mobile)
      secureops@...
      gkeenan@...
      www.ic-humint.net
      ACT!For America, NYC/Long Island Chapter

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • wndbear@aol.com
      MY RESPONSE BELOW ...... Please read the Sarge s letter first .... then mine. In a message dated 7/31/2009 8:37:54 A.M. Central America Standard T,
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 1, 2009
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        MY RESPONSE BELOW ......

        Please read the Sarge's letter first .... then mine.

        In a message dated 7/31/2009 8:37:54 A.M. Central America Standard T,
        _stphnhamlin@..._ (mailto:stphnhamlin@...) writes:

        I joined this group with the understanding that this was a place for
        Veterans issue. A place to discuss the problems that we are facing today as a
        new group of Veterans like myself are emerging from the sand blown deserts
        from across the world. I was mistaken.

        I have been receiving almost nothing but a HATRED of democratic values,
        the democratic president, and the democratic people since I have joined here.
        Why? Why are so focused on hating the democratic party and making
        slanderous accusations against the current government?

        I remember when we were in the middle of the Bush era, if someone spoke
        out against that administration they were labeled un-American. Can we not say
        the same with these cases as well? This is just disheartening to me that
        we are more focused on the hate aspect and finding FALSE information to spew
        out than actually giving PROOF and I mean actual PROOF of these
        accusations.

        The one thing that really gets me going and has been proven false through
        historical documentation, is the saying by the Republican base that America
        was founded by Christians and only Christian values. Please, look into
        this and actually find the truth before spreading lies about our nation.

        Our founding Fathers were Atheists, Deists, and a few Christians.
        According to the Treaty of Tripoli signed on November 4th 1796 Article 11 states:

        As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense
        founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity
        against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said
        States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any
        Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from
        religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing
        between the two countries.

        There are also other occupancies of this throughout our history. Please
        look at when In God We trust was put on our money, and when the Pledge of
        Allegiance was ratified.

        We were not founded on Christianity. So please from a Veteran who might
        become homeless soon because I cannot find a job and I am going on about two
        years now. STOP SPEWING THE HATE HERE, we need more help then hateful words
        and false accusations.

        SSG U.S. ARMY
        Afghanistan Veteran

        WELL SARGE, WHAT CAN I SAY, THAT COULD POSSIBILY OPEN YOUR EYES????

        This is one generation, reaching out to another generation, with a
        "reality check" Listen!

        It takes a true fool not to see the truth (or to deliberately ignore it,
        or deny it, simply because of personal ideology!). Granted, you are right
        in one respect; the Republicans for the most part very hateful. The Bush
        regime proved that beyond any doubt. But look deeper ... and consider that
        the "Obama'nation" created by the DumboCraps is far worse.

        I was a Democrat pretty much in my younger years, mostly out of stupidity
        (not reading the obvious writing on the wall!). Out of disgust, I went
        Republican without checking the water first! Like the fool on the diving
        board, not checking to see if there was even any water in the pool!. You better
        believe, I look first ... that is why I am now an Independent, and will
        vote for the individual, NOT the party!

        After I witnessed the insanity of the Village Idiot (GWB) and the
        nightmares he caused, I almost ran to the Democrats, and then realized .... wait a
        minute! Those buttheads are just as bad. In reality, its NOT the parties,
        nor their ideals .... its the scumbag INCUMBENTS who have entrenched
        themselves so deep into the system, that in order to survive, America MUST
        unearth them, and get rid of every single one of them!

        Back to your original statement:
        Get a copy of THE FREEDOM DOCUMENTS, compiled by "Chuck Baldwin Live" (you
        can reach them at PO Box 37070, Pensacola FL 32526; it costs $35, and WELL
        WORTH IT!). This book contains ALL of our Founding documents, including
        letters from major historical characters, within our beginning history.

        If you study them, you will discover that almost every single document
        acknowledges God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and give praise to, and
        thanks for, His guidance, and protection for our nation. It would take a true
        fool to deny that America is based on Christian ideals, regardless of one's
        personal thoughts or beliefs.

        Oh I do agree .... the Republican hate .... as you put it, but look at
        the racial hatred Obama has personally express in public! His attitude
        towards the police sergeant when his buddy, the black professor was arrested, is
        one of many examples.

        The reality is, BOTH PARTIES are so far beyond corrupt, that neither is
        worthy of redemption!

        Open your eyes, and realize the truth, but even more important, open your
        nose, and smell your house, burning down around you. In this instance,
        "house" can easily stand for your .... country!

        Most of our lives, we have heard the word "democracy" used in so many
        statements, it has lost its true meaning. America IS NOT (nor was it ever
        intended to be) a "democracy" ... it is a "representative republic". The
        reality is the term "democracy" applies more to a totalitarian government, much
        like the former USSR!

        Like you, the public education cesspool had me pretty well brainwashed
        too. And as a career serviceman, my commanders convinced me of the same
        garbage, simply because they, like me, didn't know any better! We're all
        victims of this stupidity .... think about that for a moment

        Thank you for your service, and WELCOME HOME!

        PO3, US Navy
        Medical Corpsman
        Disabled COMBAT Veteran
        Vietnam (TET; 1968)

        Contact me anytime, you desire.
        _Wndbear@..._ (mailto:Wndbear@...)








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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Dean
        Hi...       I risk appearing contentious while all I wish to do is to contend... for the Truth and to resist Historical Revisionism.       I am here
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 1, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi...
                I risk appearing contentious while all I wish to do is to contend... for the Truth and to resist Historical Revisionism.

                I am here to help my father with his Veteran matters and am very grateful for this Group.

                Thank you ALL for all you have done for the United States of America. I love our country dearly and I believe you all do as well even though we may differ in our
          beliefs.

                                                       Dean Scott-firefighter/paramedic-
                                                                         Proud Son of

                                                       Dr. Jack Scott, US Army Lt. Col. (Ret)                                              Combat Vet, Pacific Theatre, WWII

          The Christian America Debate Continues

          America's Christian Heritage Declared, Defined and Defended
          Setting the Historical Record Straight
          It Might Help to Read the Constitution The Visitor's Center Censors America's Christian HistoryThe Design of the Constitution
          An Exercise in Historical Revisionism: Part 1An
          Exercise in Historical Revisionism: Part 2

          An Exercise in Historical Revisionism: Part 3
          Hijacking the Declaration
          Choose You this Day Whose Notes You Will Follow*
          Censoring the Past No More              America's Christian Heritage Declared and Defended






          \

          When the government fears the people there is liberty;
          when the people fear
          the government there is tyranny.

          -Thomas Jefferson


          --- On Sat, 8/1/09, wndbear@... <wndbear@...> wrote:

          From: wndbear@... <wndbear@...>
          Subject: Re: [veterans] America Based on Christianity facts and why Republicans hate
          To: stphnhamlin@..., veterans@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 12:07 AM






           





          MY RESPONSE BELOW ......



          Please read the Sarge's letter first .... then mine.



          In a message dated 7/31/2009 8:37:54 A.M. Central America Standard T,

          _stphnhamlin@ yahoo.com>_ (mailto:stphnhamlin@ yahoo.com) writes:



          I joined this group with the understanding that this was a place for

          Veterans issue. A place to discuss the problems that we are facing today as a

          new group of Veterans like myself are emerging from the sand blown deserts

          from across the world. I was mistaken.



          I have been receiving almost nothing but a HATRED of democratic values,

          the democratic president, and the democratic people since I have joined here.

          Why? Why are so focused on hating the democratic party and making

          slanderous accusations against the current government?



          I remember when we were in the middle of the Bush era, if someone spoke

          out against that administration they were labeled un-American. Can we not say

          the same with these cases as well? This is just disheartening to me that

          we are more focused on the hate aspect and finding FALSE information to spew

          out than actually giving PROOF and I mean actual PROOF of these

          accusations.



          The one thing that really gets me going and has been proven false through

          historical documentation, is the saying by the Republican base that America

          was founded by Christians and only Christian values. Please, look into

          this and actually find the truth before spreading lies about our nation.



          Our founding Fathers were Atheists, Deists, and a few Christians.

          According to the Treaty of Tripoli signed on November 4th 1796 Article 11 states:



          As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense

          founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity

          against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said

          States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any

          Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from

          religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing

          between the two countries.



          There are also other occupancies of this throughout our history. Please

          look at when In God We trust was put on our money, and when the Pledge of

          Allegiance was ratified.



          We were not founded on Christianity. So please from a Veteran who might

          become homeless soon because I cannot find a job and I am going on about two

          years now. STOP SPEWING THE HATE HERE, we need more help then hateful words

          and false accusations.



          SSG U.S. ARMY

          Afghanistan Veteran



          WELL SARGE, WHAT CAN I SAY, THAT COULD POSSIBILY OPEN YOUR EYES????



          This is one generation, reaching out to another generation, with a

          "reality check" Listen!



          It takes a true fool not to see the truth (or to deliberately ignore it,

          or deny it, simply because of personal ideology!). Granted, you are right

          in one respect; the Republicans for the most part very hateful. The Bush

          regime proved that beyond any doubt. But look deeper ... and consider that

          the "Obama'nation" created by the DumboCraps is far worse.



          I was a Democrat pretty much in my younger years, mostly out of stupidity

          (not reading the obvious writing on the wall!). Out of disgust, I went

          Republican without checking the water first! Like the fool on the diving

          board, not checking to see if there was even any water in the pool!. You better

          believe, I look first ... that is why I am now an Independent, and will

          vote for the individual, NOT the party!



          After I witnessed the insanity of the Village Idiot (GWB) and the

          nightmares he caused, I almost ran to the Democrats, and then realized .... wait a

          minute! Those buttheads are just as bad. In reality, its NOT the parties,

          nor their ideals .... its the scumbag INCUMBENTS who have entrenched

          themselves so deep into the system, that in order to survive, America MUST

          unearth them, and get rid of every single one of them!



          Back to your original statement:

          Get a copy of THE FREEDOM DOCUMENTS, compiled by "Chuck Baldwin Live" (you

          can reach them at PO Box 37070, Pensacola FL 32526; it costs $35, and WELL

          WORTH IT!). This book contains ALL of our Founding documents, including

          letters from major historical characters, within our beginning history.



          If you study them, you will discover that almost every single document

          acknowledges God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and give praise to, and

          thanks for, His guidance, and protection for our nation. It would take a true

          fool to deny that America is based on Christian ideals, regardless of one's

          personal thoughts or beliefs.



          Oh I do agree .... the Republican hate .... as you put it, but look at

          the racial hatred Obama has personally express in public! His attitude

          towards the police sergeant when his buddy, the black professor was arrested, is

          one of many examples.



          The reality is, BOTH PARTIES are so far beyond corrupt, that neither is

          worthy of redemption!



          Open your eyes, and realize the truth, but even more important, open your

          nose, and smell your house, burning down around you. In this instance,

          "house" can easily stand for your .... country!



          Most of our lives, we have heard the word "democracy" used in so many

          statements, it has lost its true meaning. America IS NOT (nor was it ever

          intended to be) a "democracy" ... it is a "representative republic". The

          reality is the term "democracy" applies more to a totalitarian government, much

          like the former USSR!



          Like you, the public education cesspool had me pretty well brainwashed

          too. And as a career serviceman, my commanders convinced me of the same

          garbage, simply because they, like me, didn't know any better! We're all

          victims of this stupidity .... think about that for a moment



          Thank you for your service, and WELCOME HOME!



          PO3, US Navy

          Medical Corpsman

          Disabled COMBAT Veteran

          Vietnam (TET; 1968)



          Contact me anytime, you desire.

          _Wndbear@aol. com_ (mailto:Wndbear@aol. com)











          ************ **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy

          steps!

          (http://pr.atwola. com/promoclk/ 100126575x122284 6709x1201493018/ aol?redir= http://www. freecreditreport .com/pm/default. aspx?sc=668072& hmpgID=115& bcd

          =JulystepsfooterNO1 15)



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




























          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Dean
          Jefferson and the Koran When the government fears the people there is liberty; when the people fear the government there is tyranny. -Thomas Jefferson ...
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 1, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Jefferson and the Koran
            When the government fears the people there is liberty;
            when the people fear the government there is tyranny.

            -Thomas Jefferson


            --- On Sat, 8/1/09, wndbear@... <wndbear@...> wrote:

            From: wndbear@... <wndbear@...>
            Subject: Re: [veterans] America Based on Christianity facts and why Republicans hate
            To: stphnhamlin@..., veterans@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 12:07 AM






             





            MY RESPONSE BELOW ......



            Please read the Sarge's letter first .... then mine.



            In a message dated 7/31/2009 8:37:54 A.M. Central America Standard T,

            _stphnhamlin@ yahoo.com_ (mailto:stphnhamlin@ yahoo.com) writes:



            I joined this group with the understanding that this was a place for

            Veterans issue. A place to discuss the problems that we are facing today as a

            new group of Veterans like myself are emerging from the sand blown deserts

            from across the world. I was mistaken.



            I have been receiving almost nothing but a HATRED of democratic values,

            the democratic president, and the democratic people since I have joined here.

            Why? Why are so focused on hating the democratic party and making

            slanderous accusations against the current government?



            I remember when we were in the middle of the Bush era, if someone spoke

            out against that administration they were labeled un-American. Can we not say

            the same with these cases as well? This is just disheartening to me that

            we are more focused on the hate aspect and finding FALSE information to spew

            out than actually giving PROOF and I mean actual PROOF of these

            accusations.



            The one thing that really gets me going and has been proven false through

            historical documentation, is the saying by the Republican base that America

            was founded by Christians and only Christian values. Please, look into

            this and actually find the truth before spreading lies about our nation.



            Our founding Fathers were Atheists, Deists, and a few Christians.

            According to the Treaty of Tripoli signed on November 4th 1796 Article 11 states:



            As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense

            founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity

            against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said

            States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any

            Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from

            religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing

            between the two countries.



            There are also other occupancies of this throughout our history. Please

            look at when In God We trust was put on our money, and when the Pledge of

            Allegiance was ratified.



            We were not founded on Christianity. So please from a Veteran who might

            become homeless soon because I cannot find a job and I am going on about two

            years now. STOP SPEWING THE HATE HERE, we need more help then hateful words

            and false accusations.



            SSG U.S. ARMY

            Afghanistan Veteran



            WELL SARGE, WHAT CAN I SAY, THAT COULD POSSIBILY OPEN YOUR EYES????



            This is one generation, reaching out to another generation, with a

            "reality check" Listen!



            It takes a true fool not to see the truth (or to deliberately ignore it,

            or deny it, simply because of personal ideology!). Granted, you are right

            in one respect; the Republicans for the most part very hateful. The Bush

            regime proved that beyond any doubt. But look deeper ... and consider that

            the "Obama'nation" created by the DumboCraps is far worse.



            I was a Democrat pretty much in my younger years, mostly out of stupidity

            (not reading the obvious writing on the wall!). Out of disgust, I went

            Republican without checking the water first! Like the fool on the diving

            board, not checking to see if there was even any water in the pool!. You better

            believe, I look first ... that is why I am now an Independent, and will

            vote for the individual, NOT the party!



            After I witnessed the insanity of the Village Idiot (GWB) and the

            nightmares he caused, I almost ran to the Democrats, and then realized .... wait a

            minute! Those buttheads are just as bad. In reality, its NOT the parties,

            nor their ideals .... its the scumbag INCUMBENTS who have entrenched

            themselves so deep into the system, that in order to survive, America MUST

            unearth them, and get rid of every single one of them!



            Back to your original statement:

            Get a copy of THE FREEDOM DOCUMENTS, compiled by "Chuck Baldwin Live" (you

            can reach them at PO Box 37070, Pensacola FL 32526; it costs $35, and WELL

            WORTH IT!). This book contains ALL of our Founding documents, including

            letters from major historical characters, within our beginning history.



            If you study them, you will discover that almost every single document

            acknowledges God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and give praise to, and

            thanks for, His guidance, and protection for our nation. It would take a true

            fool to deny that America is based on Christian ideals, regardless of one's

            personal thoughts or beliefs.



            Oh I do agree .... the Republican hate .... as you put it, but look at

            the racial hatred Obama has personally express in public! His attitude

            towards the police sergeant when his buddy, the black professor was arrested, is

            one of many examples.



            The reality is, BOTH PARTIES are so far beyond corrupt, that neither is

            worthy of redemption!



            Open your eyes, and realize the truth, but even more important, open your

            nose, and smell your house, burning down around you. In this instance,

            "house" can easily stand for your .... country!



            Most of our lives, we have heard the word "democracy" used in so many

            statements, it has lost its true meaning. America IS NOT (nor was it ever

            intended to be) a "democracy" ... it is a "representative republic". The

            reality is the term "democracy" applies more to a totalitarian government, much

            like the former USSR!



            Like you, the public education cesspool had me pretty well brainwashed

            too. And as a career serviceman, my commanders convinced me of the same

            garbage, simply because they, like me, didn't know any better! We're all

            victims of this stupidity .... think about that for a moment



            Thank you for your service, and WELCOME HOME!



            PO3, US Navy

            Medical Corpsman

            Disabled COMBAT Veteran

            Vietnam (TET; 1968)



            Contact me anytime, you desire.

            _Wndbear@aol. com_ (mailto:Wndbear@aol. com)











            ************ **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy

            steps!

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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




























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          • Dean
            Thomas Jefferson and the Koran by Gary DeMarThe opening line of the “Marines’ Hymn”—“From the Halls of Montezuma, to the shores of
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 2, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Thomas Jefferson and the Koran











              by Gary DeMarThe
              opening line of the “Marines’ Hymn”—“From the Halls of Montezuma, to
              the shores of Tripoli”—commemorates the Mexican War (1846–1848) and the
              war with Tripoli when Marines took part in the capture of Derna on
              April 27, 1805. There is a new war going on, a war over history. Keith
              Ellison (D. Minn.), the first Muslim Congressman, told the Detroit Free
              Press that he used Thomas Jefferson’s two-volume copy of the Koran to
              take his oath of office because the book helped influence the founding
              fathers of America. According to Ellison, the Koran is “definitely an
              important historical document in our national history and demonstrates
              that Jefferson was a broad visionary thinker who not only possessed a
              Quran, but read it. . . . It would have been something that contributed
              to his own thinking.” There is no doubt about that, but in what way?

              Jefferson,
              embroiled in a war with Islamic terrorists in his day, commented, “Too
              long, for the honor of nations, have those Barbarians been [permitted]
              to trample on the sacred faith of treaties, on the rights and laws of
              human nature!”[1] Little has changed since the eighteenth
              century. In Joseph Wheelan’s well researched and highly readable book
              on America’s first war on terror with Islam, we learn that “Jefferson’s
              war pitted a modern republic with a free-trade, entrepreneurial creed
              against a medieval autocracy whose credo was piracy and terror. It
              matched an ostensibly Christian nation against an avowed Islamic one
              that professed to despise Christians.”[2] Wheelan’s historical
              assessment of the time is on target. “Except for its Native American
              population and a small percentage of Jews, the United States was
              solidly Christian, while the North African regencies were just as
              solidly Muslim—openly hostile toward Christians.”[3]

              Dumas
              Malone, Jefferson’s biographer, writes: “Treaties had been made with
              these petty piratical powers in the past, all of them calling for what
              amounted to tribute. The United States was acting like the other
              nations with commerce to protect, but Jefferson had opposed this sort
              of policy from the time he was in France, believing that the only
              effective language to employ against these brigands of the sea was that
              of force. He never believed in buying peace with them, and actually he
              was the first President to use force against them.”[4]

              So
              what did Jefferson learn from the Koran? As early as 1786, Jefferson,
              who was serving as the ambassador to France, and John Adams, the
              Ambassador to Britain, met in London with Ambassador Abdrahaman, the
              Dey of Tripoli’s ambassador to Britain, in an attempt to negotiate a
              peace treaty based on Congress’ vote of funding. Peace would come at a
              price. If America wanted “temporary peace,” a one-year guarantee, it
              would cost $66,000 plus a 10% commission. “Everlasting peace” was a
              bargain at $160,000 plus the obligatory commission. This only applied
              to Tripoli. Other nations would also have to be paid. The amount came
              to $1.3 million. But as we saw above, there was no assurance that the
              treaties would be honored. In vain Jefferson and Adams tried to argue
              that the United States were not at war with Tripoli. In what way had
              the U.S provoked the Muslims, they asked? Ambassador Abdrahaman went on
              to explain “the finer points of Islamic jihad” to the Koranically
              challenged Jefferson and Adams. In a letter to John Jay, Jefferson
              wrote the following:

              The Ambassador answered us that it was
              founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their
              Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their
              authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war
              upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they
              could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman [Muslim] who should
              be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.[5]

              Abdrahaman
              was paraphrasing the Koran’s “rules of engagement” found in the 47
              Surah: “Whenever you encounter the ones who disbelieve [during
              wartime], seize them by their necks until once you have subdued them,
              then tie them up as prisoners, either in order to release them later
              on, or also to ask for ransom, until war lays down her burdens.” Unless
              a nation submitted to Islam, whether it was the aggressor or not, that
              nation was by definition at war with Islam. It’s no wonder that
              Jefferson studied the Koran. He realized that if Americans ever
              capitulated, the Muslims would be singing “From the Halls of Montezuma
              to the Shores of A-mer-i-ca.”

              Footnotes:
              [1]. Thomas Jefferson,
              congratulatory letter to Lt. Andrew Sterett (1760–1807). Quoted in
              Joseph Wheelan, Jefferson’s War: America’s First War on Terror,
              1801–1805 (New York: Carroll & Graf Publishers, 2003), 102
              [2]. Wheelan, Jefferson’s War, xxiii.
              [3]. Wheelan, Jefferson’s War, 7.
              [4]. Dumas Malone, Jefferson the President: First Term, 1801–1805 (Boston: Little, Brown and Company, 1970), 4:97–98.
              [5]. Quoted in Wheeler, Jefferson’s War, 40–41.
              When the government fears the people there is liberty;
              when the people fear the government there is tyranny.

              -Thomas Jefferson


              --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Dean <firemedic98323@...> wrote:

              From: Dean <firemedic98323@...>
              Subject: [veterans] The opening line of the “Marines’ Hymn”—“From the Halls of Montezuma, to the shores of Tripoli”—commemorates the Mexican War (1846–1848)
              To: stphnhamlin@..., veterans@yahoogroups.com, wndbear@...
              Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 11:02 AM






               







              Jefferson and the Koran

              When the government fears the people there is liberty;

              when the people fear the government there is tyranny.



              -Thomas Jefferson



              --- On Sat, 8/1/09, wndbear@aol. com <wndbear@aol. com> wrote:



              From: wndbear@aol. com <wndbear@aol. com>

              Subject: Re: [veterans] America Based on Christianity facts and why Republicans hate

              To: stphnhamlin@ yahoo.com, veterans@yahoogroup s.com

              Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 12:07 AM



               



              MY RESPONSE BELOW ......



              Please read the Sarge's letter first .... then mine.



              In a message dated 7/31/2009 8:37:54 A.M. Central America Standard T,



              _stphnhamlin@ yahoo.com_ (mailto:stphnhamlin @ yahoo.com) writes:



              I joined this group with the understanding that this was a place for



              Veterans issue. A place to discuss the problems that we are facing today as a



              new group of Veterans like myself are emerging from the sand blown deserts



              from across the world. I was mistaken.



              I have been receiving almost nothing but a HATRED of democratic values,



              the democratic president, and the democratic people since I have joined here.



              Why? Why are so focused on hating the democratic party and making



              slanderous accusations against the current government?



              I remember when we were in the middle of the Bush era, if someone spoke



              out against that administration they were labeled un-American. Can we not say



              the same with these cases as well? This is just disheartening to me that



              we are more focused on the hate aspect and finding FALSE information to spew



              out than actually giving PROOF and I mean actual PROOF of these



              accusations.



              The one thing that really gets me going and has been proven false through



              historical documentation, is the saying by the Republican base that America



              was founded by Christians and only Christian values. Please, look into



              this and actually find the truth before spreading lies about our nation.



              Our founding Fathers were Atheists, Deists, and a few Christians.



              According to the Treaty of Tripoli signed on November 4th 1796 Article 11 states:



              As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense



              founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity



              against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said



              States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any



              Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from



              religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing



              between the two countries.



              There are also other occupancies of this throughout our history. Please



              look at when In God We trust was put on our money, and when the Pledge of



              Allegiance was ratified.



              We were not founded on Christianity. So please from a Veteran who might



              become homeless soon because I cannot find a job and I am going on about two



              years now. STOP SPEWING THE HATE HERE, we need more help then hateful words



              and false accusations.



              SSG U.S. ARMY



              Afghanistan Veteran



              WELL SARGE, WHAT CAN I SAY, THAT COULD POSSIBILY OPEN YOUR EYES????



              This is one generation, reaching out to another generation, with a



              "reality check" Listen!



              It takes a true fool not to see the truth (or to deliberately ignore it,



              or deny it, simply because of personal ideology!). Granted, you are right



              in one respect; the Republicans for the most part very hateful. The Bush



              regime proved that beyond any doubt. But look deeper ... and consider that



              the "Obama'nation" created by the DumboCraps is far worse.



              I was a Democrat pretty much in my younger years, mostly out of stupidity



              (not reading the obvious writing on the wall!). Out of disgust, I went



              Republican without checking the water first! Like the fool on the diving



              board, not checking to see if there was even any water in the pool!. You better



              believe, I look first ... that is why I am now an Independent, and will



              vote for the individual, NOT the party!



              After I witnessed the insanity of the Village Idiot (GWB) and the



              nightmares he caused, I almost ran to the Democrats, and then realized .... wait a



              minute! Those buttheads are just as bad. In reality, its NOT the parties,



              nor their ideals .... its the scumbag INCUMBENTS who have entrenched



              themselves so deep into the system, that in order to survive, America MUST



              unearth them, and get rid of every single one of them!



              Back to your original statement:



              Get a copy of THE FREEDOM DOCUMENTS, compiled by "Chuck Baldwin Live" (you



              can reach them at PO Box 37070, Pensacola FL 32526; it costs $35, and WELL



              WORTH IT!). This book contains ALL of our Founding documents, including



              letters from major historical characters, within our beginning history.



              If you study them, you will discover that almost every single document



              acknowledges God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and give praise to, and



              thanks for, His guidance, and protection for our nation. It would take a true



              fool to deny that America is based on Christian ideals, regardless of one's



              personal thoughts or beliefs.



              Oh I do agree .... the Republican hate .... as you put it, but look at



              the racial hatred Obama has personally express in public! His attitude



              towards the police sergeant when his buddy, the black professor was arrested, is



              one of many examples.



              The reality is, BOTH PARTIES are so far beyond corrupt, that neither is



              worthy of redemption!



              Open your eyes, and realize the truth, but even more important, open your



              nose, and smell your house, burning down around you. In this instance,



              "house" can easily stand for your .... country!



              Most of our lives, we have heard the word "democracy" used in so many



              statements, it has lost its true meaning. America IS NOT (nor was it ever



              intended to be) a "democracy" ... it is a "representative republic". The



              reality is the term "democracy" applies more to a totalitarian government, much



              like the former USSR!



              Like you, the public education cesspool had me pretty well brainwashed



              too. And as a career serviceman, my commanders convinced me of the same



              garbage, simply because they, like me, didn't know any better! We're all



              victims of this stupidity .... think about that for a moment



              Thank you for your service, and WELCOME HOME!



              PO3, US Navy



              Medical Corpsman



              Disabled COMBAT Veteran



              Vietnam (TET; 1968)



              Contact me anytime, you desire.



              _Wndbear@aol. com_ (mailto:Wndbear@ aol. com)



              ************ **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy



              steps!



              (http://pr.atwola. com/promoclk/ 100126575x122284 6709x1201493018/ aol?redir= http://www. freecreditreport .com/pm/default. aspx?sc=668072& hmpgID=115& bcd



              =JulystepsfooterNO1 15)



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]























              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




























              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Dean
              It appears the links didn t carry over. If you wish to view these items, the URL can be copy and pasted into the address bar.
              Message 6 of 7 , Aug 2, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                It appears the links didn't carry over. If you wish to view these items, the URL can be copy and pasted into the address bar.

                                                                     Dean

                The Christian America Debate Continues
                http://www.americanvision.org/article/the-christian-america-debate-continues/


                The Biblical Basis For Our Constitution

                http://www.coralridge.org/medialibrary/default.aspx?mediaID=CRH0928_S














                Setting the Historical Record Straight
                http://www.americanvision.org/article/setting-the-historical-record-straight/


                It Might Help to Read the Constitution
                http://www.americanvision.org/article/it-might-help-to-read-the-constitution-/

                The Visitor's Center Censors America's Christian History
                http://www.americanvision.org/article/the-visitors-center-censors-americas-christian-history/

                The Design of the Constitution
                http://www.americanvision.org/article/the-design-of-the-constitution/


                An Exercise in Historical Revisionism: Part 1
                http://www.americanvision.org/article/an-exercise-in-historical-revisionism-part-1/

                An Exercise in Historical Revisionism: Part 2
                http://www.americanvision.org/article/an-exercise-in-historical-revisionism-part-2/


                An Exercise in Historical Revisionism: Part 3
                http://www.americanvision.org/article/an-exercise-in-historical-revisionism-part-3/


                Hijacking the Declaration
                http://www.americanvision.org/article/hijacking-the-declaration-/


                Choose You this Day Whose Notes You Will Follow*


                Censoring the Past No More
                http://www.americanvision.org/article/censoring-the-past-no-more/

                America's Christian Heritage Declared and Defended
                http://www.americanvision.org/article/choose-you-this-day-whose-notes-you-will-follow/


                When the government fears the people there is liberty;
                when the people fear the government there is tyranny.

                -Thomas Jefferson


                --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Dean <firemedic98323@...> wrote:

                From: Dean <firemedic98323@...>
                Subject: Re: [veterans] America Based on Christianity facts and why Republicans hate
                To: stphnhamlin@..., veterans@yahoogroups.com, wndbear@...
                Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 10:57 AM






                 





                Hi...

                      I risk appearing contentious while all I wish to do is to contend... for the Truth and to resist Historical Revisionism.



                      I am here to help my father with his Veteran matters and am very grateful for this Group.



                      Thank you ALL for all you have done for the United States of America. I love our country dearly and I believe you all do as well even though we may differ in our

                beliefs.



                                                             Dean Scott-firefighter/ paramedic-

                                                                               Proud Son of



                                                             Dr. Jack Scott, US Army Lt. Col. (Ret)                                              Combat Vet, Pacific Theatre, WWII



                The Christian America Debate Continues



                America's Christian Heritage Declared, Defined and Defended

                Setting the Historical Record Straight

                It Might Help to Read the Constitution The Visitor's Center Censors America's Christian HistoryThe Design of the Constitution

                An Exercise in Historical Revisionism: Part 1An

                Exercise in Historical Revisionism: Part 2



                An Exercise in Historical Revisionism: Part 3

                Hijacking the Declaration

                Choose You this Day Whose Notes You Will Follow*

                Censoring the Past No More              America's Christian Heritage Declared and Defended



                \



                When the government fears the people there is liberty;

                when the people fear

                the government there is tyranny.



                -Thomas Jefferson



                --- On Sat, 8/1/09, wndbear@aol. com <wndbear@aol. com> wrote:



                From: wndbear@aol. com <wndbear@aol. com>

                Subject: Re: [veterans] America Based on Christianity facts and why Republicans hate

                To: stphnhamlin@ yahoo.com, veterans@yahoogroup s.com

                Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 12:07 AM



                 



                MY RESPONSE BELOW ......



                Please read the Sarge's letter first .... then mine.



                In a message dated 7/31/2009 8:37:54 A.M. Central America Standard T,



                _stphnhamlin@ yahoo.com>_ (mailto:stphnhamlin @ yahoo.com) writes:



                I joined this group with the understanding that this was a place for



                Veterans issue. A place to discuss the problems that we are facing today as a



                new group of Veterans like myself are emerging from the sand blown deserts



                from across the world. I was mistaken.



                I have been receiving almost nothing but a HATRED of democratic values,



                the democratic president, and the democratic people since I have joined here.



                Why? Why are so focused on hating the democratic party and making



                slanderous accusations against the current government?



                I remember when we were in the middle of the Bush era, if someone spoke



                out against that administration they were labeled un-American. Can we not say



                the same with these cases as well? This is just disheartening to me that



                we are more focused on the hate aspect and finding FALSE information to spew



                out than actually giving PROOF and I mean actual PROOF of these



                accusations.



                The one thing that really gets me going and has been proven false through



                historical documentation, is the saying by the Republican base that America



                was founded by Christians and only Christian values. Please, look into



                this and actually find the truth before spreading lies about our nation.



                Our founding Fathers were Atheists, Deists, and a few Christians.



                According to the Treaty of Tripoli signed on November 4th 1796 Article 11 states:



                As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense



                founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity



                against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said



                States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any



                Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from



                religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing



                between the two countries.



                There are also other occupancies of this throughout our history. Please



                look at when In God We trust was put on our money, and when the Pledge of



                Allegiance was ratified.



                We were not founded on Christianity. So please from a Veteran who might



                become homeless soon because I cannot find a job and I am going on about two



                years now. STOP SPEWING THE HATE HERE, we need more help then hateful words



                and false accusations.



                SSG U.S. ARMY



                Afghanistan Veteran



                WELL SARGE, WHAT CAN I SAY, THAT COULD POSSIBILY OPEN YOUR EYES????



                This is one generation, reaching out to another generation, with a



                "reality check" Listen!



                It takes a true fool not to see the truth (or to deliberately ignore it,



                or deny it, simply because of personal ideology!). Granted, you are right



                in one respect; the Republicans for the most part very hateful. The Bush



                regime proved that beyond any doubt. But look deeper ... and consider that



                the "Obama'nation" created by the DumboCraps is far worse.



                I was a Democrat pretty much in my younger years, mostly out of stupidity



                (not reading the obvious writing on the wall!). Out of disgust, I went



                Republican without checking the water first! Like the fool on the diving



                board, not checking to see if there was even any water in the pool!. You better



                believe, I look first ... that is why I am now an Independent, and will



                vote for the individual, NOT the party!



                After I witnessed the insanity of the Village Idiot (GWB) and the



                nightmares he caused, I almost ran to the Democrats, and then realized .... wait a



                minute! Those buttheads are just as bad. In reality, its NOT the parties,



                nor their ideals .... its the scumbag INCUMBENTS who have entrenched



                themselves so deep into the system, that in order to survive, America MUST



                unearth them, and get rid of every single one of them!



                Back to your original statement:



                Get a copy of THE FREEDOM DOCUMENTS, compiled by "Chuck Baldwin Live" (you



                can reach them at PO Box 37070, Pensacola FL 32526; it costs $35, and WELL



                WORTH IT!). This book contains ALL of our Founding documents, including



                letters from major historical characters, within our beginning history.



                If you study them, you will discover that almost every single document



                acknowledges God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and give praise to, and



                thanks for, His guidance, and protection for our nation. It would take a true



                fool to deny that America is based on Christian ideals, regardless of one's



                personal thoughts or beliefs.



                Oh I do agree .... the Republican hate .... as you put it, but look at



                the racial hatred Obama has personally express in public! His attitude



                towards the police sergeant when his buddy, the black professor was arrested, is



                one of many examples.



                The reality is, BOTH PARTIES are so far beyond corrupt, that neither is



                worthy of redemption!



                Open your eyes, and realize the truth, but even more important, open your



                nose, and smell your house, burning down around you. In this instance,



                "house" can easily stand for your .... country!



                Most of our lives, we have heard the word "democracy" used in so many



                statements, it has lost its true meaning. America IS NOT (nor was it ever



                intended to be) a "democracy" ... it is a "representative republic". The



                reality is the term "democracy" applies more to a totalitarian government, much



                like the former USSR!



                Like you, the public education cesspool had me pretty well brainwashed



                too. And as a career serviceman, my commanders convinced me of the same



                garbage, simply because they, like me, didn't know any better! We're all



                victims of this stupidity .... think about that for a moment



                Thank you for your service, and WELCOME HOME!



                PO3, US Navy



                Medical Corpsman



                Disabled COMBAT Veteran



                Vietnam (TET; 1968)



                Contact me anytime, you desire.



                _Wndbear@aol. com_ (mailto:Wndbear@ aol. com)



                ************ **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy



                steps!



                (http://pr.atwola. com/promoclk/ 100126575x122284 6709x1201493018/ aol?redir= http://www. freecreditreport .com/pm/default. aspx?sc=668072& hmpgID=115& bcd



                =JulystepsfooterNO1 15)



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