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Re: [veganbodybuilding] Advanced Bodybuilding Workout Routine For Monster Mass!

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  • Tom Rogers
    With all due respect - if you are NOT on drugs (Steroids), you will destroy your body following the advice in that post. If the answer to getting bigger is
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 29, 2008
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      With all due respect - if you are NOT on drugs (Steroids), you will destroy your body following the advice in that post.

      If the answer to getting bigger is LONGER TRAINING, why stop at 2 hours? Why not train for 3, 4, 5 hours? Instead of 22 sets per a single SMALL body part like the chest, why stop there? Why not do 35, 45, 55 sets? All one needs to do is THINK for himself and you will know that this kind of logic is insane.

      If you want to stimulate and accumulate LEAN MASS, then train to FAILURE. In order to train to failure, you have to work HARD and INTENSE. In order to do that, you MUST work shorter, it cannot last long. Can a sprinter sprint all out for 2 miles? Of course not. Proper INTENSE training MUST be short, or it's not intense enough training.

      The areas of the chest that you normally hit are upper, middle, lower, outer, inner. Five areas - well, middle, lower are basically the same (exercise-wise), and there are exercises that hit both inner and upper on the same exercise. So take 3 maybe 4 exercises tops, do 1-2 warm up sets ONLY before the FIRST exercise, then 1 set (that's right, just ONE set) to Positive FAILURE on each of the remaining exercises.

      You don't think Positive failure is enough? Then take it to NEGATIVE failure, so that your positive (lifting), static (holding), negative (lowering) strengths are all exhausted - still on that ONE single set, by doing static holds after positive failure, and then negative reps after static failure.

      Then go home and rest. Rest 2, 3, 4 days before training again. Give yourself time to recover and by getting the proper nutrition and rest, you will grow like never before.

      The body has a genetically determined Recovery Ability. It doesn't change to a bigger amount just because you are getting stronger and bigger. It is a set point. When you exceed that point, and you keep training before you have restored your recovery ability, then allowed for growth to occur, you will overtrain and head the other way fast. It will even damage your health!

      Remember Dr Kenneth Cooper? The Dr. from the Air Force who started the Aerobics craze? He later stated that he was WRONG. Longer is NOT better, and actually hurts your health! Thus now you have all these studies about HIiT Cardio being so much better. How does one do High Intensity Interval Training Cardio? HARD, INTENSE, SHORT. Sprint for 1 minute, recover for 2 minutes, sprint for 1 min, etc - total session done in 15-20 minutes.

      Train heavier, train at a SLOW rep speed - controlled movement, no momentum ever, smooth turns at each end of the motion, feel the muscle(s) contract through the entire range of motion, fight through the burning pain, fight trying to move the weight for 5 seconds more even when the bar isn't moving (when you've reached failure) - train one set to failure, then REST (with proper nutrition at all times), then see how you grow. I guarantee you will not want to train any other way.

      I've done it, I've tried it and am trying it even stricter now. It works! Every single training session I am stronger - up in reps, weight or both. But don't take my word for it...try it yourself - if you dare. I'm telling you, nothing is harder to do than proper HIT training for BB. I'll train for 4 sets, 5-6 exercises per body part anyday over HIT (if I was a wimp), HIT is that demanding. but I choose HIT because it makes sense, it is quick and to the point, and bottom line - it works!

      One heavy set at a 4/2/4 rep speed has my heart pumping, and me gasping for air much more than any HIiT or traditional Cardio I have ever done before.

      Ignore the nonsense posted below...

      -Tom Rogers


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Dane Fletcher
      To: veganbodybuilding@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 2:58 PM
      Subject: [veganbodybuilding] Advanced Bodybuilding Workout Routine For Monster Mass!


      By Dane C. Fletcher <http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=Dane_C._Fletcher>
      [Platinum Quality Author]

      As bodybuilders solidify their adherence to the rules of bodybuilding,
      something starts to happen. They begin to succeed. They grow like
      they've never grown. Their strength reaches new level, and their bodies
      reach new sizes. Consistency delivers results. And as results begin to
      accumulate the body is suddenly able to handle new workloads, and must,
      in order to continue to grow.

      There are two ways a body can be challenged in order to stimulate new
      growth- Training heavier and training longer. Training heavier is always
      the goal of beginner and intermediate bodybuilders. But as one reaches
      advanced levels of bodybuilding, the weights become more and more
      dangerous, and the body's joints and tendons become more and more
      susceptible to injury. The alternative to heavier weights is to train
      longer - up to two hours per body part.

      By definition, this is over training. If you have any element of your
      bodybuilding regimen unchecked, you will fail. Nutrition, rest, and
      supplementation need to be covered 100% or you are wasting your time.
      But if you are able to keep all factors completely in check - and
      increase them when warranted - you might be ready for 120 minute body
      part training.

      For this example, we'll examine a chest routine. Suppose you normally
      complete 4 sets for upper chest (incline bench press), 4 sets for
      lower/middle chest (flat dumbbell presses) and 4 sets for chest/delt
      tie-in (cable crossovers). You complete your workout in about 45 to 60
      minutes. You will keep this workout, but add new movements to supplement
      the target areas. Your new workout would look like this:

      -3 Sets Flat Bench Press (Warm-Up & Overall Chest)

      -4 Sets Incline Bench Press (Upper Chest)

      -4 Sets Incline Dumbbell Flies (Upper Chest)

      -4 Sets Flat Dumbbell Press (Middle Chest)

      -4 Sets Flat Dumbbell Flies (Middle And Outer Chest)

      -3 Sets Decline Bench Press (Lower And Middle Chest)

      At this point, you would take your 'recharge' break. If you're done, go
      home. But if you have it in you to complete the 120-minute workout, eat
      a piece of fruit, stretch a bit, and complete the workout. Your weights
      will now be lighter and your rep sets higher (10 to 15 reps per set)

      -3 Sets Weighted Chest Dips

      -4 Sets Dumbbell Pullovers

      -4 Sets Cable Crossovers

      -5 To 10 Minutes Of Stretching

      This workout is not for the faint of heart. You will be sore the next
      day. Initially, you may need a day off following this routine for the
      central nervous system (CNS) to recover. Each week, you should be able
      to add one more day like this to your training regimen until you're
      doing 4 to 5 days of 120-minute routines.

      Have your post workout nutrition ready ahead of time (whey shake with
      dextrose) and consume 15 minutes after training with cold water. Hit the
      showers. Drive home and tackles a very protein-rich, carb-rich meal.
      Spaghetti and meatballs will beat out a chicken salad any day after this
      routine. Training for 120 minutes per body part is only recommended for
      advanced athletes who have all nutritional, sleep, and supplementation
      bases covered. See if it's right for you!

      Dane Fletcher is the world's most prolific bodybuilding and fitness
      expert and is currently the executive editor for BodybuildingToday.com.

      If you are looking for more bodybuilding tips
      <http://www.bodybuildingtoday.com/> or information on weight training,
      or supplementation, please visit www.BodybuildingToday.com
      <http://www.bodybuildingtoday.com/> , the bodybuilding and fitness
      authority site with hundreds of articles available FREE to help you
      meet your goals.

      Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/?expert=Dane_C._Fletcher
      <http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=Dane_C._Fletcher>
      [Dane C. Fletcher - EzineArticles Expert Author]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Vegan Bodybuilding
      Nice to have you onboard Dane, WOW! 1970 s high volume style training! I ve got a load of routines just like this in my old magazine collection, a real blast
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 1, 2008
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        Nice to have you onboard Dane,

        WOW! 1970's high volume style training! I've got a load of routines just
        like this in my old magazine collection, a real blast from the past :-)
        Steroids where legal & you could train like this twice a day & still grow
        :-).

        It is possible a genetic monster 'could' manage to do this & gain something,
        but for most you're talking overkill within a few weeks (if you're working
        HARD), in my view.



        Also you'd need nutrition during your training if you ever attempted this as
        otherwise you'd be in 'cortisol city' (catabolic as hell). For something
        like that I say 5 grams fast protein (soya or pea), a gram or 2 of BCAA's,
        20-30 grams of simple carbs (grape juice is my choice), you can also grind
        up a vit A,C & E pill & add it to your drink (or take half before, half
        after training (should have no more than daily recommend dose in the pill),
        add plenty of water to the mix. Then get a post workout drink as soon as
        possible after.



        QUOTE - "There are two ways a body can be challenged in order to stimulate
        new growth- Training heavier and training longer."



        Actually there are more than 2 ways for the body to improve, lessening rest
        periods, rep speed, exercise choice (choosing a harder exercise could lessen
        a load, while still increasing intensity), how often you train, how you
        split your training (full body workouts, bodypart splits, plexes, circuits
        etc), style of lifting ('functional training', Olympic style lifts, HIT, DC
        etc etc) many things can be changed to allow for new challenges to the body.



        I bet most of you could actually do this workout, if you wanted to, but my
        guess would be (not having seen you all) that most of you wouldn't benefit
        as much as more intense, shorter routine. If anyone is planning on doing
        something like this I'd suggest the above workout nutrition (if you like I
        can supply the peer-reviewed research to back it up - it's going up on the
        VBB blog over the next few weeks anyway, so you'll see it there), & take it
        as a short 4 to (at most) 8 week 'over-reaching' routine, then back right
        off. I'd do it thus: 8 weeks (absolute max!), then a week or 2 back-off,
        then 4 weeks on again, then drop it (man, this has come at the right time
        I'm reading a pile of 70's Bradley J Steiner books right now - he was a well
        respected bodybuilding writer of the time), that's a classic way of the time
        (well, if you're going to go '70's, do it properly :-).



        I'm actually planning to try a Steiner style leg specialisation after this
        cycle (not as high volume as we're talking about, but more volume than I do
        at the moment), it will be using the 8 wk on, 2 week back-off, 4 wk on
        system, 3 times a week routine, should be interesting to see if I can hang
        with the 70's crew :-). I'll give you more details when I start, which
        (hopefully) shouldn't be for a few more weeks as I'm still gaining on the
        present cycle & I'm 'sucking it dry' before I begin a new one.



        All the best,



        Pete Ryan www.veganbodybuilding.org



        From: veganbodybuilding@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:veganbodybuilding@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Rogers
        Sent: 29 February 2008 20:50
        To: veganbodybuilding@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [veganbodybuilding] Advanced Bodybuilding Workout Routine For
        Monster Mass!



        With all due respect - if you are NOT on drugs (Steroids), you will destroy
        your body following the advice in that post.

        If the answer to getting bigger is LONGER TRAINING, why stop at 2 hours? Why
        not train for 3, 4, 5 hours? Instead of 22 sets per a single SMALL body part
        like the chest, why stop there? Why not do 35, 45, 55 sets? All one needs to
        do is THINK for himself and you will know that this kind of logic is insane.

        If you want to stimulate and accumulate LEAN MASS, then train to FAILURE. In
        order to train to failure, you have to work HARD and INTENSE. In order to do
        that, you MUST work shorter, it cannot last long. Can a sprinter sprint all
        out for 2 miles? Of course not. Proper INTENSE training MUST be short, or
        it's not intense enough training.

        The areas of the chest that you normally hit are upper, middle, lower,
        outer, inner. Five areas - well, middle, lower are basically the same
        (exercise-wise), and there are exercises that hit both inner and upper on
        the same exercise. So take 3 maybe 4 exercises tops, do 1-2 warm up sets
        ONLY before the FIRST exercise, then 1 set (that's right, just ONE set) to
        Positive FAILURE on each of the remaining exercises.

        You don't think Positive failure is enough? Then take it to NEGATIVE
        failure, so that your positive (lifting), static (holding), negative
        (lowering) strengths are all exhausted - still on that ONE single set, by
        doing static holds after positive failure, and then negative reps after
        static failure.

        Then go home and rest. Rest 2, 3, 4 days before training again. Give
        yourself time to recover and by getting the proper nutrition and rest, you
        will grow like never before.

        The body has a genetically determined Recovery Ability. It doesn't change to
        a bigger amount just because you are getting stronger and bigger. It is a
        set point. When you exceed that point, and you keep training before you have
        restored your recovery ability, then allowed for growth to occur, you will
        overtrain and head the other way fast. It will even damage your health!

        Remember Dr Kenneth Cooper? The Dr. from the Air Force who started the
        Aerobics craze? He later stated that he was WRONG. Longer is NOT better, and
        actually hurts your health! Thus now you have all these studies about HIiT
        Cardio being so much better. How does one do High Intensity Interval
        Training Cardio? HARD, INTENSE, SHORT. Sprint for 1 minute, recover for 2
        minutes, sprint for 1 min, etc - total session done in 15-20 minutes.

        Train heavier, train at a SLOW rep speed - controlled movement, no momentum
        ever, smooth turns at each end of the motion, feel the muscle(s) contract
        through the entire range of motion, fight through the burning pain, fight
        trying to move the weight for 5 seconds more even when the bar isn't moving
        (when you've reached failure) - train one set to failure, then REST (with
        proper nutrition at all times), then see how you grow. I guarantee you will
        not want to train any other way.

        I've done it, I've tried it and am trying it even stricter now. It works!
        Every single training session I am stronger - up in reps, weight or both.
        But don't take my word for it...try it yourself - if you dare. I'm telling
        you, nothing is harder to do than proper HIT training for BB. I'll train for
        4 sets, 5-6 exercises per body part anyday over HIT (if I was a wimp), HIT
        is that demanding. but I choose HIT because it makes sense, it is quick and
        to the point, and bottom line - it works!

        One heavy set at a 4/2/4 rep speed has my heart pumping, and me gasping for
        air much more than any HIiT or traditional Cardio I have ever done before.

        Ignore the nonsense posted below...

        -Tom Rogers

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Dane Fletcher
        To: veganbodybuilding@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:veganbodybuilding%40yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 2:58 PM
        Subject: [veganbodybuilding] Advanced Bodybuilding Workout Routine For
        Monster Mass!

        By Dane C. Fletcher <http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=Dane_C._Fletcher>
        [Platinum Quality Author]

        As bodybuilders solidify their adherence to the rules of bodybuilding,
        something starts to happen. They begin to succeed. They grow like
        they've never grown. Their strength reaches new level, and their bodies
        reach new sizes. Consistency delivers results. And as results begin to
        accumulate the body is suddenly able to handle new workloads, and must,
        in order to continue to grow.

        There are two ways a body can be challenged in order to stimulate new
        growth- Training heavier and training longer. Training heavier is always
        the goal of beginner and intermediate bodybuilders. But as one reaches
        advanced levels of bodybuilding, the weights become more and more
        dangerous, and the body's joints and tendons become more and more
        susceptible to injury. The alternative to heavier weights is to train
        longer - up to two hours per body part.

        By definition, this is over training. If you have any element of your
        bodybuilding regimen unchecked, you will fail. Nutrition, rest, and
        supplementation need to be covered 100% or you are wasting your time.
        But if you are able to keep all factors completely in check - and
        increase them when warranted - you might be ready for 120 minute body
        part training.

        For this example, we'll examine a chest routine. Suppose you normally
        complete 4 sets for upper chest (incline bench press), 4 sets for
        lower/middle chest (flat dumbbell presses) and 4 sets for chest/delt
        tie-in (cable crossovers). You complete your workout in about 45 to 60
        minutes. You will keep this workout, but add new movements to supplement
        the target areas. Your new workout would look like this:

        -3 Sets Flat Bench Press (Warm-Up & Overall Chest)

        -4 Sets Incline Bench Press (Upper Chest)

        -4 Sets Incline Dumbbell Flies (Upper Chest)

        -4 Sets Flat Dumbbell Press (Middle Chest)

        -4 Sets Flat Dumbbell Flies (Middle And Outer Chest)

        -3 Sets Decline Bench Press (Lower And Middle Chest)

        At this point, you would take your 'recharge' break. If you're done, go
        home. But if you have it in you to complete the 120-minute workout, eat
        a piece of fruit, stretch a bit, and complete the workout. Your weights
        will now be lighter and your rep sets higher (10 to 15 reps per set)

        -3 Sets Weighted Chest Dips

        -4 Sets Dumbbell Pullovers

        -4 Sets Cable Crossovers

        -5 To 10 Minutes Of Stretching

        This workout is not for the faint of heart. You will be sore the next
        day. Initially, you may need a day off following this routine for the
        central nervous system (CNS) to recover. Each week, you should be able
        to add one more day like this to your training regimen until you're
        doing 4 to 5 days of 120-minute routines.

        Have your post workout nutrition ready ahead of time (whey shake with
        dextrose) and consume 15 minutes after training with cold water. Hit the
        showers. Drive home and tackles a very protein-rich, carb-rich meal.
        Spaghetti and meatballs will beat out a chicken salad any day after this
        routine. Training for 120 minutes per body part is only recommended for
        advanced athletes who have all nutritional, sleep, and supplementation
        bases covered. See if it's right for you!

        Dane Fletcher is the world's most prolific bodybuilding and fitness
        expert and is currently the executive editor for BodybuildingToday.com.

        If you are looking for more bodybuilding tips
        <http://www.bodybuildingtoday.com/> or information on weight training,
        or supplementation, please visit www.BodybuildingToday.com
        <http://www.bodybuildingtoday.com/> , the bodybuilding and fitness
        authority site with hundreds of articles available FREE to help you
        meet your goals.

        Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/?expert=Dane_C._Fletcher
        <http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=Dane_C._Fletcher>
        [Dane C. Fletcher - EzineArticles Expert Author]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Kirk McAnsh
        Interesting concept. However, the main problem I see with training longer is that after about 45 minutes of training the body s catabolic hormone cortisol
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 1, 2008
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          Interesting concept. However, the main problem I see with training "longer" is that after about 45 minutes of training the body's catabolic hormone cortisol rises to unacceptable levels and supersedes the anabolic hormones, testosterone, growth hormone, IGF-1, insulin, etc.

          The key is to stimulate (vs. annihilate) with INTENSITY and plenty of rest.

          The only people that can train heavy for ling periods of time consistently are those taking drugs (anabolic steroids).


          Kirk





          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Dane Fletcher
          To: veganbodybuilding@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 2:58 PM
          Subject: [veganbodybuilding] Advanced Bodybuilding Workout Routine For Monster Mass!


          By Dane C. Fletcher <http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=Dane_C._Fletcher>
          [Platinum Quality Author]

          As bodybuilders solidify their adherence to the rules of bodybuilding,
          something starts to happen. They begin to succeed. They grow like
          they've never grown. Their strength reaches new level, and their bodies
          reach new sizes. Consistency delivers results. And as results begin to
          accumulate the body is suddenly able to handle new workloads, and must,
          in order to continue to grow.

          There are two ways a body can be challenged in order to stimulate new
          growth- Training heavier and training longer. Training heavier is always
          the goal of beginner and intermediate bodybuilders. But as one reaches
          advanced levels of bodybuilding, the weights become more and more
          dangerous, and the body's joints and tendons become more and more
          susceptible to injury. The alternative to heavier weights is to train
          longer - up to two hours per body part.

          By definition, this is over training. If you have any element of your
          bodybuilding regimen unchecked, you will fail. Nutrition, rest, and
          supplementation need to be covered 100% or you are wasting your time.
          But if you are able to keep all factors completely in check - and
          increase them when warranted - you might be ready for 120 minute body
          part training.

          For this example, we'll examine a chest routine. Suppose you normally
          complete 4 sets for upper chest (incline bench press), 4 sets for
          lower/middle chest (flat dumbbell presses) and 4 sets for chest/delt
          tie-in (cable crossovers). You complete your workout in about 45 to 60
          minutes. You will keep this workout, but add new movements to supplement
          the target areas. Your new workout would look like this:

          -3 Sets Flat Bench Press (Warm-Up & Overall Chest)

          -4 Sets Incline Bench Press (Upper Chest)

          -4 Sets Incline Dumbbell Flies (Upper Chest)

          -4 Sets Flat Dumbbell Press (Middle Chest)

          -4 Sets Flat Dumbbell Flies (Middle And Outer Chest)

          -3 Sets Decline Bench Press (Lower And Middle Chest)

          At this point, you would take your 'recharge' break. If you're done, go
          home. But if you have it in you to complete the 120-minute workout, eat
          a piece of fruit, stretch a bit, and complete the workout. Your weights
          will now be lighter and your rep sets higher (10 to 15 reps per set)

          -3 Sets Weighted Chest Dips

          -4 Sets Dumbbell Pullovers

          -4 Sets Cable Crossovers

          -5 To 10 Minutes Of Stretching

          This workout is not for the faint of heart. You will be sore the next
          day. Initially, you may need a day off following this routine for the
          central nervous system (CNS) to recover. Each week, you should be able
          to add one more day like this to your training regimen until you're
          doing 4 to 5 days of 120-minute routines.

          Have your post workout nutrition ready ahead of time (whey shake with
          dextrose) and consume 15 minutes after training with cold water. Hit the
          showers. Drive home and tackles a very protein-rich, carb-rich meal.
          Spaghetti and meatballs will beat out a chicken salad any day after this
          routine. Training for 120 minutes per body part is only recommended for
          advanced athletes who have all nutritional, sleep, and supplementation
          bases covered. See if it's right for you!

          Dane Fletcher is the world's most prolific bodybuilding and fitness
          expert and is currently the executive editor for BodybuildingToday.com.

          If you are looking for more bodybuilding tips
          <http://www.bodybuildingtoday.com/> or information on weight training,
          or supplementation, please visit www.BodybuildingToday.com
          <http://www.bodybuildingtoday.com/> , the bodybuilding and fitness
          authority site with hundreds of articles available FREE to help you
          meet your goals.

          Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/?expert=Dane_C._Fletcher
          <http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=Dane_C._Fletcher>
          [Dane C. Fletcher - EzineArticles Expert Author]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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