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Stretching anatomy & strength ball training (book review)

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  • Vegan Bodybuilding
    Hi all, I ve just finished two books I had for my birthday, so here s my thoughts about them. Stretching anatomy by Arnold Nelson & Jouko Kokkonen
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 10, 2007
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      Hi all,

      I've just finished two books I had for my birthday, so here's my thoughts
      about them.

      "Stretching anatomy" by Arnold Nelson & Jouko Kokkonen
      http://www.humankinetics.com/products/showproduct.cfm?isbn=0736059725
      Anyone who's read "strength training anatomy" has got the idea of what this
      book looks like. It's basically an illustrated book showing various
      stretches & which muscles are involved. It's really quite an interesting
      book, if, like me, you're interested in the skeletal muscle structure &
      great for anyone interested in which stretches do what. It also gives a
      basic guide to stretching for those wanting to keep or improve their
      flexibility.

      "Strength ball training" by Lorne Goldenberg & Peter Twist
      http://www.humankinetics.com/products/showproduct.cfm?isbn=0736066977
      This is one of those book/DVD combos. The book explains the basics of using
      a stability ball (both the standard & a BOSU type of ball) & a medicine
      ball. To be honest this is a little outside my normal style of training,
      although I had used a medicine ball as a lad during my boxing days, so I was
      quite interested to see if it had anything to offer compared to the
      conventional barbell. To be honest most of the training looked to me more
      like conditioning than strength & quite a few core stabilisation exercises.
      I do think that maybe if you enjoy using these tools they could aid with
      agility, aerobic conditioning, balance, reaction times, so if any of these
      are your goals then I'd say it would be a useful addition, but I've not been
      convinced you'd make serious strength/size gains, nor that it is the best
      core building system. I might well be wrong here as I've never given it a
      fair crack, so I'll give you my reasons & you can see.
      Conventional wisdom has it that for absolute strength you need to impose a
      load just above the normal maximum. Doing weights on an unstable surface
      means you use less weight & the small stabilising muscles are working hard,
      but the main muscle targeted is not. This may be useful for working on
      rehab, or low intensity day, or even for those wishing to tone up, but as a
      rule I'd say to get as strong as possible lifting the big lifts on a stable
      surface would be the way to go.
      Core stability work is basically strengthening your mid section. The idea
      of a stability ball is an unstable surface makes this area work hard to keep
      everything steady. While this is true, my argument has always been that do
      you think someone doing a bodyweight plus standing shoulder press, overhead
      deep squat (squat holding a bar overhead), heavy back squat, deadlift or
      similar isn't going to have a decent amount of core strength? Again rehab,
      conditioning or low intensity days it may prove a challenging change, but I
      always suggest the big, basic compound moves to provide a sturdy foundation
      in the core.
      As I've got both a stability ball & now a medicine ball I'm sure I'll give
      some of the moves a go now & again, but personally I don't feel the same joy
      & satisfaction I get from good old heavy iron on a flat bench (maybe I'm
      just old fashioned :-)

      For both books I'd give a provisional thumbs up, depending of your aims. If
      you like to know what a stretch actually does, then "Stretching anatomy" is
      a good starting place. If you are just toning up, or looking for a novel
      training approach (especially with a training partner), getting some
      conditioning or all-round fitness without too much heavy lifting, then
      "Strength ball training" might be the book for you.

      Pete www.veganbodybuilding.org

      --
      No virus found in this outgoing message.
      Checked by AVG Free Edition.
      Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.33/678 - Release Date: 09/02/2007
      16:06
    • Louis Gross
      Pete, can you - would you - decribe some of the psoas and illiacus stretches you do? Lou Vegan Bodybuilding wrote: Hi all, I ve
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 10, 2007
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        Pete, can you - would you - decribe some of the psoas and illiacus stretches you do?

        Lou

        Vegan Bodybuilding <pete@...> wrote: Hi all,

        I've just finished two books I had for my birthday, so here's my thoughts
        about them.

        "Stretching anatomy" by Arnold Nelson & Jouko Kokkonen
        http://www.humankinetics.com/products/showproduct.cfm?isbn=0736059725
        Anyone who's read "strength training anatomy" has got the idea of what this
        book looks like. It's basically an illustrated book showing various
        stretches & which muscles are involved. It's really quite an interesting
        book, if, like me, you're interested in the skeletal muscle structure &
        great for anyone interested in which stretches do what. It also gives a
        basic guide to stretching for those wanting to keep or improve their
        flexibility.

        "Strength ball training" by Lorne Goldenberg & Peter Twist
        http://www.humankinetics.com/products/showproduct.cfm?isbn=0736066977
        This is one of those book/DVD combos. The book explains the basics of using
        a stability ball (both the standard & a BOSU type of ball) & a medicine
        ball. To be honest this is a little outside my normal style of training,
        although I had used a medicine ball as a lad during my boxing days, so I was
        quite interested to see if it had anything to offer compared to the
        conventional barbell. To be honest most of the training looked to me more
        like conditioning than strength & quite a few core stabilisation exercises.
        I do think that maybe if you enjoy using these tools they could aid with
        agility, aerobic conditioning, balance, reaction times, so if any of these
        are your goals then I'd say it would be a useful addition, but I've not been
        convinced you'd make serious strength/size gains, nor that it is the best
        core building system. I might well be wrong here as I've never given it a
        fair crack, so I'll give you my reasons & you can see.
        Conventional wisdom has it that for absolute strength you need to impose a
        load just above the normal maximum. Doing weights on an unstable surface
        means you use less weight & the small stabilising muscles are working hard,
        but the main muscle targeted is not. This may be useful for working on
        rehab, or low intensity day, or even for those wishing to tone up, but as a
        rule I'd say to get as strong as possible lifting the big lifts on a stable
        surface would be the way to go.
        Core stability work is basically strengthening your mid section. The idea
        of a stability ball is an unstable surface makes this area work hard to keep
        everything steady. While this is true, my argument has always been that do
        you think someone doing a bodyweight plus standing shoulder press, overhead
        deep squat (squat holding a bar overhead), heavy back squat, deadlift or
        similar isn't going to have a decent amount of core strength? Again rehab,
        conditioning or low intensity days it may prove a challenging change, but I
        always suggest the big, basic compound moves to provide a sturdy foundation
        in the core.
        As I've got both a stability ball & now a medicine ball I'm sure I'll give
        some of the moves a go now & again, but personally I don't feel the same joy
        & satisfaction I get from good old heavy iron on a flat bench (maybe I'm
        just old fashioned :-)

        For both books I'd give a provisional thumbs up, depending of your aims. If
        you like to know what a stretch actually does, then "Stretching anatomy" is
        a good starting place. If you are just toning up, or looking for a novel
        training approach (especially with a training partner), getting some
        conditioning or all-round fitness without too much heavy lifting, then
        "Strength ball training" might be the book for you.

        Pete www.veganbodybuilding.org

        --
        No virus found in this outgoing message.
        Checked by AVG Free Edition.
        Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.33/678 - Release Date: 09/02/2007
        16:06




        ---------------------------------
        http://www.veganbodybuilding.org
        http://www.veganfitness.net
        Yahoo! Groups Links






        Lou Gross
        24-hr voicemail : 1-310-285-8132 1-888-299-5973
        up to 3-min messages
        Big Website - Lots of Info - http://www.backfixbodywork.com - home page
        Stretching Video Info - teaches better ways to stretch & use all stretching
        http://www.backfixbodywork.com/Programs_Stretching_Relaxation.htm
        Body-Mind Therapy & Personal Growth Info - scroll down home page
        right side menu to Bodymind Reichian Netherton Section, see article on
        Key Point first, 1st & 3rd articles, Personal Growth article, Stress Removal of
        Bodywork article


        ---------------------------------
        Looking for earth-friendly autos?
        Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Vegan Bodybuilding
        To be honest Lou I don t stretch my muscles as precisely as you. I don t tend to work on individual muscles, as such, but on regions. Since both these
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 12, 2007
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          To be honest Lou I don't stretch my muscles as precisely as you. I don't
          tend to work on individual muscles, as such, but on regions. Since both
          these muscles flex & rotate the thigh laterally & also flex the spine at the
          base too. Then you'd be looking out for stretches that extend &/or
          externally rotate the thigh. Also extend the lower spine & as the psoas
          major connects to the transverse processes of the lower spine, then some
          lateral flexion of the lower spine would also aid any stretching.
          I was just running through the muscle movements quickly there just to try &
          think what stretches I do that would cover that.
          OK, I do sit down with my feet touching up by my groin, then gently apply
          pressure to the thigh, just above the knee (actually when any pressure is
          applied it's after a workout & it's the leg putting pressure on the arm,
          like an isometric stretch, then any lengthening of the muscle is done when
          there is no pressure - not a forced stretch in other words).
          Laying flat face down on the floor & pushing up with the hands, or laying
          flat on the floor & extending the hands & feet, so you are balanced on your
          abs. I have done more extreme versions of back bends like crabs etc, but
          they never felt good on my spine, so I've dropped them.
          Simple bends to the side would have some effect.
          Sitting on the floor & having one foot out straight in front, the other bent
          up by your groin, then twist round away from the bent knee (I often combine
          that with a forward bend for the hams)
          Basic quad stretches will have some effect as well.
          That's a few I can think of off the top of my head, there's probably a load
          more that I don't use (I've just had a quick look in that stretching anatomy
          book & they've got a few that also look like they'd work as well)

          I'm certainly not as strict as I should be with stretching. I can always
          find time to workout, but not always to stretch. It's something I've got to
          work on, as it will help a lot in the long-run in both my training &
          everyday life.

          Pete HYPERLINK "http://www.veganbodybuilding.org"www.veganbodybuilding.org


          _____

          From: veganbodybuilding@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:veganbodybuilding@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Louis Gross
          Sent: 10 February 2007 21:49
          To: veganbodybuilding@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [veganbodybuilding] Stretching anatomy & strength ball training
          (book review)



          Pete, can you - would you - decribe some of the psoas and illiacus stretches
          you do?

          Lou

          Vegan Bodybuilding <HYPERLINK
          "mailto:pete%40veganbodybuilding.org"pete@...> wrote: Hi
          all,

          I've just finished two books I had for my birthday, so here's my thoughts
          about them.

          "Stretching anatomy" by Arnold Nelson & Jouko Kokkonen
          HYPERLINK
          "http://www.humankinetics.com/products/showproduct.cfm?isbn=0736059725"http:
          //www.humankin-etics.com/-products/-showproduct.-cfm?isbn=-0736059725
          Anyone who's read "strength training anatomy" has got the idea of what this
          book looks like. It's basically an illustrated book showing various
          stretches & which muscles are involved. It's really quite an interesting
          book, if, like me, you're interested in the skeletal muscle structure &
          great for anyone interested in which stretches do what. It also gives a
          basic guide to stretching for those wanting to keep or improve their
          flexibility.

          "Strength ball training" by Lorne Goldenberg & Peter Twist
          HYPERLINK
          "http://www.humankinetics.com/products/showproduct.cfm?isbn=0736066977"http:
          //www.humankin-etics.com/-products/-showproduct.-cfm?isbn=-0736066977
          This is one of those book/DVD combos. The book explains the basics of using
          a stability ball (both the standard & a BOSU type of ball) & a medicine
          ball. To be honest this is a little outside my normal style of training,
          although I had used a medicine ball as a lad during my boxing days, so I was
          quite interested to see if it had anything to offer compared to the
          conventional barbell. To be honest most of the training looked to me more
          like conditioning than strength & quite a few core stabilisation exercises.
          I do think that maybe if you enjoy using these tools they could aid with
          agility, aerobic conditioning, balance, reaction times, so if any of these
          are your goals then I'd say it would be a useful addition, but I've not been
          convinced you'd make serious strength/size gains, nor that it is the best
          core building system. I might well be wrong here as I've never given it a
          fair crack, so I'll give you my reasons & you can see.
          Conventional wisdom has it that for absolute strength you need to impose a
          load just above the normal maximum. Doing weights on an unstable surface
          means you use less weight & the small stabilising muscles are working hard,
          but the main muscle targeted is not. This may be useful for working on
          rehab, or low intensity day, or even for those wishing to tone up, but as a
          rule I'd say to get as strong as possible lifting the big lifts on a stable
          surface would be the way to go.
          Core stability work is basically strengthening your mid section. The idea
          of a stability ball is an unstable surface makes this area work hard to keep
          everything steady. While this is true, my argument has always been that do
          you think someone doing a bodyweight plus standing shoulder press, overhead
          deep squat (squat holding a bar overhead), heavy back squat, deadlift or
          similar isn't going to have a decent amount of core strength? Again rehab,
          conditioning or low intensity days it may prove a challenging change, but I
          always suggest the big, basic compound moves to provide a sturdy foundation
          in the core.
          As I've got both a stability ball & now a medicine ball I'm sure I'll give
          some of the moves a go now & again, but personally I don't feel the same joy
          & satisfaction I get from good old heavy iron on a flat bench (maybe I'm
          just old fashioned :-)

          For both books I'd give a provisional thumbs up, depending of your aims. If
          you like to know what a stretch actually does, then "Stretching anatomy" is
          a good starting place. If you are just toning up, or looking for a novel
          training approach (especially with a training partner), getting some
          conditioning or all-round fitness without too much heavy lifting, then
          "Strength ball training" might be the book for you.

          Pete www.veganbodybuildi-ng.org

          --
          No virus found in this outgoing message.
          Checked by AVG Free Edition.
          Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.33/678 - Release Date: 09/02/2007
          16:06

          ------------------------------------
          HYPERLINK
          "http://www.veganbodybuilding.org"http://www.veganbod-ybuilding.-org
          HYPERLINK "http://www.veganfitness.net"http://www.veganfit-ness.net
          Yahoo! Groups Links

          Lou Gross
          24-hr voicemail : 1-310-285-8132 1-888-299-5973
          up to 3-min messages
          Big Website - Lots of Info - HYPERLINK
          "http://www.backfixbodywork.com"http://www.backfixb-odywork.com - home page
          Stretching Video Info - teaches better ways to stretch & use all stretching
          HYPERLINK
          "http://www.backfixbodywork.com/Programs_Stretching_Relaxation.htm"http://ww
          w.backfixb-odywork.com/-Programs_-Stretching_-Relaxation.-htm
          Body-Mind Therapy & Personal Growth Info - scroll down home page
          right side menu to Bodymind Reichian Netherton Section, see article on
          Key Point first, 1st & 3rd articles, Personal Growth article, Stress Removal
          of
          Bodywork article

          ------------------------------------
          Looking for earth-friendly autos?
          Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






          --
          No virus found in this incoming message.
          Checked by AVG Free Edition.
          Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.36/681 - Release Date: 11/02/2007
          18:50



          --
          No virus found in this outgoing message.
          Checked by AVG Free Edition.
          Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.36/681 - Release Date: 11/02/2007
          18:50



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Louis Gross
          Thanks for the info Pete. I have a tendency to not stretch as well so I like to teachit to people because I do it at the same time I am explaining what to do
          Message 4 of 4 , Feb 12, 2007
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            Thanks for the info Pete. I have a tendency to not stretch as well so I like to teachit to people because I do it at the same time I am explaining what to do for them. haha. I also got into Bodywork for a minor reason that it builds upper body chest and arm strength and keeps me active.

            I usually tell people to do a few of what I show on the video, like before, during and after drining in the car - I am actually a couple years behind schedule on "Car Stretching" audio and video pair. There are stretches one can do while driving and when stopped at traffic lights still more and evenwhen getting out of the car even more, especially for people who drive around all day in traffic, like outside salespeople. One guy in Dubai does the hands on with one hand, for his repeatedly tight head, while he is sitting in traffic.

            As for your low back, or back arching backward discomfort, the usual reason is shortened medial leg and thigh muscles, and the squats and lunges, and the one legged stances i show in DVD 1 add a lot of lengthening up into the lower back to the feet into groin stretch.

            Hamstrings and calves, and abdominals, stretching- lengthening, also helps the back greatly and a number of people I have treated can then do backward bends and feel an elongation on both front and back of the trunk and the legs as well.

            I also agree with the twisting stretching and you can even get the thigh muscles to separate, one from another, in a rotational stretching movement for them up into the pelvis and back as well. When the fascial sacks surrounding the muscles are separated from each other, (we call the sticking together glueing) then it's easier to get more length on individoal muscles and groups of muscles.

            Ah, I am bouncing on the rebounder more and even spent 3-4 hrs cleaning the inside of my car yesterday. But I still need to rebuild the specific organs and their key nutrients that got very low. I get out of breath and pretty wiped out after mild house or car cleaning, in an hour or two at the most, - too soon, by far.

            Best - Lou

            Vegan Bodybuilding <pete@...> wrote:
            To be honest Lou I don't stretch my muscles as precisely as you. I don't
            tend to work on individual muscles, as such, but on regions. Since both
            these muscles flex & rotate the thigh laterally & also flex the spine at the
            base too. Then you'd be looking out for stretches that extend &/or
            externally rotate the thigh. Also extend the lower spine & as the psoas
            major connects to the transverse processes of the lower spine, then some
            lateral flexion of the lower spine would also aid any stretching.
            I was just running through the muscle movements quickly there just to try &
            think what stretches I do that would cover that.
            OK, I do sit down with my feet touching up by my groin, then gently apply
            pressure to the thigh, just above the knee (actually when any pressure is
            applied it's after a workout & it's the leg putting pressure on the arm,
            like an isometric stretch, then any lengthening of the muscle is done when
            there is no pressure - not a forced stretch in other words).
            Laying flat face down on the floor & pushing up with the hands, or laying
            flat on the floor & extending the hands & feet, so you are balanced on your
            abs. I have done more extreme versions of back bends like crabs etc, but
            they never felt good on my spine, so I've dropped them.
            Simple bends to the side would have some effect.
            Sitting on the floor & having one foot out straight in front, the other bent
            up by your groin, then twist round away from the bent knee (I often combine
            that with a forward bend for the hams)
            Basic quad stretches will have some effect as well.
            That's a few I can think of off the top of my head, there's probably a load
            more that I don't use (I've just had a quick look in that stretching anatomy
            book & they've got a few that also look like they'd work as well)

            I'm certainly not as strict as I should be with stretching. I can always
            find time to workout, but not always to stretch. It's something I've got to
            work on, as it will help a lot in the long-run in both my training &
            everyday life.

            Pete HYPERLINK "http://www.veganbodybuilding.org"www.veganbodybuilding.org


            _____

            From: veganbodybuilding@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:veganbodybuilding@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Louis Gross
            Sent: 10 February 2007 21:49
            To: veganbodybuilding@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [veganbodybuilding] Stretching anatomy & strength ball training
            (book review)

            Pete, can you - would you - decribe some of the psoas and illiacus stretches
            you do?

            Lou

            Vegan Bodybuilding <HYPERLINK
            "mailto:pete%40veganbodybuilding.org"pete@...> wrote: Hi
            all,

            I've just finished two books I had for my birthday, so here's my thoughts
            about them.

            "Stretching anatomy" by Arnold Nelson & Jouko Kokkonen
            HYPERLINK
            "http://www.humankinetics.com/products/showproduct.cfm?isbn=0736059725"http:
            //www.humankin-etics.com/-products/-showproduct.-cfm?isbn=-0736059725
            Anyone who's read "strength training anatomy" has got the idea of what this
            book looks like. It's basically an illustrated book showing various
            stretches & which muscles are involved. It's really quite an interesting
            book, if, like me, you're interested in the skeletal muscle structure &
            great for anyone interested in which stretches do what. It also gives a
            basic guide to stretching for those wanting to keep or improve their
            flexibility.

            "Strength ball training" by Lorne Goldenberg & Peter Twist
            HYPERLINK
            "http://www.humankinetics.com/products/showproduct.cfm?isbn=0736066977"http:
            //www.humankin-etics.com/-products/-showproduct.-cfm?isbn=-0736066977
            This is one of those book/DVD combos. The book explains the basics of using
            a stability ball (both the standard & a BOSU type of ball) & a medicine
            ball. To be honest this is a little outside my normal style of training,
            although I had used a medicine ball as a lad during my boxing days, so I was
            quite interested to see if it had anything to offer compared to the
            conventional barbell. To be honest most of the training looked to me more
            like conditioning than strength & quite a few core stabilisation exercises.
            I do think that maybe if you enjoy using these tools they could aid with
            agility, aerobic conditioning, balance, reaction times, so if any of these
            are your goals then I'd say it would be a useful addition, but I've not been
            convinced you'd make serious strength/size gains, nor that it is the best
            core building system. I might well be wrong here as I've never given it a
            fair crack, so I'll give you my reasons & you can see.
            Conventional wisdom has it that for absolute strength you need to impose a
            load just above the normal maximum. Doing weights on an unstable surface
            means you use less weight & the small stabilising muscles are working hard,
            but the main muscle targeted is not. This may be useful for working on
            rehab, or low intensity day, or even for those wishing to tone up, but as a
            rule I'd say to get as strong as possible lifting the big lifts on a stable
            surface would be the way to go.
            Core stability work is basically strengthening your mid section. The idea
            of a stability ball is an unstable surface makes this area work hard to keep
            everything steady. While this is true, my argument has always been that do
            you think someone doing a bodyweight plus standing shoulder press, overhead
            deep squat (squat holding a bar overhead), heavy back squat, deadlift or
            similar isn't going to have a decent amount of core strength? Again rehab,
            conditioning or low intensity days it may prove a challenging change, but I
            always suggest the big, basic compound moves to provide a sturdy foundation
            in the core.
            As I've got both a stability ball & now a medicine ball I'm sure I'll give
            some of the moves a go now & again, but personally I don't feel the same joy
            & satisfaction I get from good old heavy iron on a flat bench (maybe I'm
            just old fashioned :-)

            For both books I'd give a provisional thumbs up, depending of your aims. If
            you like to know what a stretch actually does, then "Stretching anatomy" is
            a good starting place. If you are just toning up, or looking for a novel
            training approach (especially with a training partner), getting some
            conditioning or all-round fitness without too much heavy lifting, then
            "Strength ball training" might be the book for you.

            Pete www.veganbodybuildi-ng.org

            --
            No virus found in this outgoing message.
            Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.33/678 - Release Date: 09/02/2007
            16:06

            ------------------------------------
            HYPERLINK
            "http://www.veganbodybuilding.org"http://www.veganbod-ybuilding.-org
            HYPERLINK "http://www.veganfitness.net"http://www.veganfit-ness.net
            Yahoo! Groups Links

            Lou Gross
            24-hr voicemail : 1-310-285-8132 1-888-299-5973
            up to 3-min messages
            Big Website - Lots of Info - HYPERLINK
            "http://www.backfixbodywork.com"http://www.backfixb-odywork.com - home page
            Stretching Video Info - teaches better ways to stretch & use all stretching
            HYPERLINK
            "http://www.backfixbodywork.com/Programs_Stretching_Relaxation.htm"http://ww
            w.backfixb-odywork.com/-Programs_-Stretching_-Relaxation.-htm
            Body-Mind Therapy & Personal Growth Info - scroll down home page
            right side menu to Bodymind Reichian Netherton Section, see article on
            Key Point first, 1st & 3rd articles, Personal Growth article, Stress Removal
            of
            Bodywork article

            ------------------------------------
            Looking for earth-friendly autos?
            Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            --
            No virus found in this incoming message.
            Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.36/681 - Release Date: 11/02/2007
            18:50

            --
            No virus found in this outgoing message.
            Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.36/681 - Release Date: 11/02/2007
            18:50


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






            Lou Gross
            24-hr voicemail : 1-310-285-8132 1-888-299-5973
            up to 3-min messages
            Big Website - Lots of Info - http://www.backfixbodywork.com - home page
            Stretching Video Info - teaches better ways to stretch & use all stretching
            http://www.backfixbodywork.com/Programs_Stretching_Relaxation.htm
            Body-Mind Therapy & Personal Growth Info - scroll down home page
            right side menu to Bodymind Reichian Netherton Section, see article on
            Key Point first, 1st & 3rd articles, Personal Growth article, Stress Removal of
            Bodywork article


            ---------------------------------
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