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Santhanam, Parasara's Verse and Houses in Navamsa!

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  • Narasimha P.V.R. Rao
    Namaste friends, I will not engage in a debate with Pradeep, who seems to make up his own rules to play by and keeps changing them as the debate progresses.
    Message 1 of 18 , Jul 15, 2005
      Namaste friends,
       
      I will not engage in a debate with Pradeep, who seems to make up his own rules to play by and keeps changing them as the debate progresses. But I wanted to write in detail about the verse I mentioned yesterday for the benefit of those who are interested and also those who may be confused by all this.
       
      I am using the ITrans convention for transliteration. You can cut & paste this text into software supporting ITrans (e.g. "ITranslator 99" from Omkarananda Ashram) and see the text in Sanskrit.
       
      lagna Shadvargake chaivamekakheTayutekShite |
      rAjayogo bhavatyeva nirvishaMkam dvijottama || 39-13
      pUrNa dR^iShTe pUrNayogamardhadR^iShTe.ardhameva ca |
      pAdadR^iShTe pAdayogamiti GYaeyaM kramAt phalam || 39-14
       
      This verse means that if lagna in all the six divisions is occupied or aspected by the same planet, it constitutes a raja yoga. Based on the fullness of the aspect, the strength of the yoga is to be decided.
       
      One can argue that this is rasi drishti (which does not need houses), but the mention of full, half and quarter aspects makes it quite obvious that graha drishti based on houses is being referred to. In rasi drishti, there are no grades of aspects.
       
      As a matter of fact, Sri Santhanam did not translate the verse any differently than I would. In fact, I see no scope to translate differently. Under his notes, Sri Santhanam wrote the following:
       
      "Aspects are referred to in the divisional charts here. I am unable to fully conceive the logic in aspects in divisional charts for the sage himself referred to the longitudinal aspectual evaluations in an earlier chapter. Without commenting further on this controversial aspect I leave it at that, accepting my limitations to explain this fully."
       
      While some people seem to be quite arrogant in vehemently and forcefully dismissing the use of houses in navamsa despite the long history of the practice by great scholars, one may notice that the great Santhanam was quite humble. He did not question the verse or try to misinterpret it or give alternate interpretations. He was a scholar. He clearly recognized what this verse meant and what it implied!!! He simply accepted his limitation to explain it further or make sense of its obvious implication.
       
      That is why I respect Sri Santhanam so much. Even if I disagree with him in a few places based on careful study, it is nothing personal. As a person, I respect him immensely. He is a great role model to aspiring scholars.
       
      Now, intelligent readers should note that Santhanam's "inability to explain this fully" does not mean that the verse is wrong or questionable. As Santhanam himself accepted, it was his "limitation" that he could not "explain this fully". Now, let me try to "explain this fully". (Note to Pradeep: I will NOT respond to any questions or comments from you.)
       
      If Jupiter is at 2 deg in Pisces (i.e. in 0:00-3:20), he is exalted is Cancer in navamsa. Why is it called Cancer? We know that Aries, Taurus etc are divisions of the "physical" zodiac and Cancer is physically the region between 90 deg and 120 deg. Why didn't sages come up with new names for the navamsa divisions, drekkana divisions etc? Why are all those divisions mapped back to the same 12 signs? When we say that Jupiter in the above example is in Cancer in navamsa, do we mean that he is between 90 deg and 120 deg? Otherwise, why is it called "Cancer" for God's sake?
       
      This is the crux of the issue. If one understands this clearly, there is no confusion and the above verse of Parasara makes perfect sense.
       
      Jupiter in the above example is in Pisces physically. So he is at 2 deg in Pisces as far as Rasi chart or rasi space (i.e. physical space) is concerned. But navamsa is a different chart altogether. It is a different space altogether. It is not a physical space and is an abstract space (that is why only rasi chart shows the physical existence, while navamsa shows an abstract environment known as dharmik environment). A planet in 0:00-3:20 of Pisces in the phsycial space (rasi) is mapped in this abstract navamsa space to 0:00 to 30:00 of Cancer. In other words, a planet in 330:00-333:20 of the zodiac in the physical space is mapped in this abstract navamsa space to 90:00-120:00 of the zodiac. So Jupiter at 2 deg in Pisces in the physical space (rasi) is at 18 deg in Cancer in the navamsa space. (Side note: In fact, this is the very foundation of the casting of navamsa-dwadasamsa chart. Navamsa-dwadasamsa is not based on dividing rasis into 108 parts and linearly mapping them. Navamsa is the intermediate step. It is based on casting navamsa, treating it as rasi and finding its dwadasamsa. The sign occupied in navamsa-dwadasamsa by a planet at 2 deg in Pisces in rasi is the same as the sign occupied in dwadasamsa by a planet at 18 deg in Cancer in rasi!)
       
      If you realize this, then the fact that "the sage himself referred to the longitudinal aspectual evaluations in an earlier chapter" is no longer a concern and does not become a limitation in "accepting this fully".
       
      Some may tell you that Cancer in navamsa is not the same as Cancer in rasi. Don't kid yourself. Otherwise, it wouldn't be called "Cancer". They correspond to the same 30 degrees in the zodiac, albeit seen from two different spaces. Cancer in rasi chart corresponds to the same 30 degrees in the physical space, while Cancer in navamsa chart corresponds to a various smaller regions when seen thru the physical space. But once you enter the navamsa space thru one of those 3:20 regions in the physical space and see things thru the navamsa space, you are in the same old Cancer, i.e. 90-120 deg. If 90-120 deg is the second house from 60-90 deg in the zodiac in one space, it is so in another space too. Period.
       
      If the planet is in 330:00-333:20 in the rasi chart, that is so in the physical rasi space. Once you are dealing with navamsa, don't think that it is still in 330:00-333:20. When viewed thru the navamsa space, it is NOT in that region. It is in 90:00-120:00 when viewed thru this space.
       
      Those who do not understand and appreciate this simple concept will tell you not to take houses in navamsa (and other divisions). But they will not be able to explain the verse I quoted above. Either they will have to accept their limitation in explaining it, like Sri Santhanam did (there is nothing wrong with it), or give some misinterpretation, like Santhanam did not. On the other hand, if you get this simple concept into your system, there are no issues. The choice is yours.
       
      There are many other references to houses in amsas by Parasara, but they are more ambiguous.
       
      Despite my strong (and quite justified, in my view) views on taking houses in navamsa and other divisional charts, I do respect those who think otherwise. I sincerely hope that they too can respect my views and agree to disagree. If they do not try to force me to accept their views or throw around objectionable adjectives to describe my views, I will not force them to accept their views.
       
      Understanding that houses in divisions are important is one thing and understanding how to use them and how to use houses in rasi chart and how to correlate the two is quite another thing. But that is not my focus for today.
       
      May Jupiter's light shine on us,
      Narasimha
      ----------------------------------------------------------------
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      http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net
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      ----------------------------------------------------------------
    • Raghunatha RaoNemani
      Om Krishna Guru Namaste Narasimha Ji, A very good idea. I know you are a very busy man like any one in the list, so please spend your free time in writing and
      Message 2 of 18 , Jul 16, 2005
        Om Krishna Guru

        Namaste Narasimha Ji,

        A very good idea. I know you are a very busy man like any
        one in the list, so please spend your free time in writing
        and finishing the T.P book instead. We are all eagerly
        waiting for that book.

        Regards
        Raghunatha Rao

        --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao"
        <pvr@c...> wrote:
        > Namaste friends,
        >
        > I will not engage in a debate with Pradeep, who seems to make up
        his own rules to play by and keeps changing them as the debate
        progresses. But I wanted to write in detail about the verse I
        mentioned yesterday for the benefit of those who are interested and
        also those who may be confused by all this.
        >
        > I am using the ITrans convention for transliteration. You can cut &
        paste this text into software supporting ITrans (e.g. "ITranslator
        99" from Omkarananda Ashram) and see the text in Sanskrit.
        >
        > lagna Shadvargake chaivamekakheTayutekShite |
        > rAjayogo bhavatyeva nirvishaMkam dvijottama || 39-13
        > pUrNa dR^iShTe pUrNayogamardhadR^iShTe.ardhameva ca |
        > pAdadR^iShTe pAdayogamiti GYaeyaM kramAt phalam || 39-14
        >
        > This verse means that if lagna in all the six divisions is occupied
        or aspected by the same planet, it constitutes a raja yoga. Based on
        the fullness of the aspect, the strength of the yoga is to be decided.
        >
        > One can argue that this is rasi drishti (which does not need
        houses), but the mention of full, half and quarter aspects makes it
        quite obvious that graha drishti based on houses is being referred
        to. In rasi drishti, there are no grades of aspects.
        >
        > As a matter of fact, Sri Santhanam did not translate the verse any
        differently than I would. In fact, I see no scope to translate
        differently. Under his notes, Sri Santhanam wrote the following:
        >
        > "Aspects are referred to in the divisional charts here. I am unable
        to fully conceive the logic in aspects in divisional charts for the
        sage himself referred to the longitudinal aspectual evaluations in an
        earlier chapter. Without commenting further on this controversial
        aspect I leave it at that, accepting my limitations to explain this
        fully."
        >
        > While some people seem to be quite arrogant in vehemently and
        forcefully dismissing the use of houses in navamsa despite the long
        history of the practice by great scholars, one may notice that the
        great Santhanam was quite humble. He did not question the verse or
        try to misinterpret it or give alternate interpretations. He was a
        scholar. He clearly recognized what this verse meant and what it
        implied!!! He simply accepted his limitation to explain it further or
        make sense of its obvious implication.
        >
        > That is why I respect Sri Santhanam so much. Even if I disagree
        with him in a few places based on careful study, it is nothing
        personal. As a person, I respect him immensely. He is a great role
        model to aspiring scholars.
        >
        > Now, intelligent readers should note that Santhanam's "inability to
        explain this fully" does not mean that the verse is wrong or
        questionable. As Santhanam himself accepted, it was his "limitation"
        that he could not "explain this fully". Now, let me try to "explain
        this fully". (Note to Pradeep: I will NOT respond to any questions or
        comments from you.)
        >
        > If Jupiter is at 2 deg in Pisces (i.e. in 0:00-3:20), he is exalted
        is Cancer in navamsa. Why is it called Cancer? We know that Aries,
        Taurus etc are divisions of the "physical" zodiac and Cancer is
        physically the region between 90 deg and 120 deg. Why didn't sages
        come up with new names for the navamsa divisions, drekkana divisions
        etc? Why are all those divisions mapped back to the same 12 signs?
        When we say that Jupiter in the above example is in Cancer in
        navamsa, do we mean that he is between 90 deg and 120 deg? Otherwise,
        why is it called "Cancer" for God's sake?
        >
        > This is the crux of the issue. If one understands this clearly,
        there is no confusion and the above verse of Parasara makes perfect
        sense.
        >
        > Jupiter in the above example is in Pisces physically. So he is at 2
        deg in Pisces as far as Rasi chart or rasi space (i.e. physical
        space) is concerned. But navamsa is a different chart altogether. It
        is a different space altogether. It is not a physical space and is an
        abstract space (that is why only rasi chart shows the physical
        existence, while navamsa shows an abstract environment known as
        dharmik environment). A planet in 0:00-3:20 of Pisces in the phsycial
        space (rasi) is mapped in this abstract navamsa space to 0:00 to
        30:00 of Cancer. In other words, a planet in 330:00-333:20 of the
        zodiac in the physical space is mapped in this abstract navamsa space
        to 90:00-120:00 of the zodiac. So Jupiter at 2 deg in Pisces in the
        physical space (rasi) is at 18 deg in Cancer in the navamsa space.
        (Side note: In fact, this is the very foundation of the casting of
        navamsa-dwadasamsa chart. Navamsa-dwadasamsa is not based on dividing
        rasis into 108 parts and linearly mapping them. Navamsa is the
        intermediate step. It is based on casting navamsa, treating it as
        rasi and finding its dwadasamsa. The sign occupied in navamsa-
        dwadasamsa by a planet at 2 deg in Pisces in rasi is the same as the
        sign occupied in dwadasamsa by a planet at 18 deg in Cancer in rasi!)
        >
        > If you realize this, then the fact that "the sage himself referred
        to the longitudinal aspectual evaluations in an earlier chapter" is
        no longer a concern and does not become a limitation in "accepting
        this fully".
        >
        > Some may tell you that Cancer in navamsa is not the same as Cancer
        in rasi. Don't kid yourself. Otherwise, it wouldn't be
        called "Cancer". They correspond to the same 30 degrees in the
        zodiac, albeit seen from two different spaces. Cancer in rasi chart
        corresponds to the same 30 degrees in the physical space, while
        Cancer in navamsa chart corresponds to a various smaller regions when
        seen thru the physical space. But once you enter the navamsa space
        thru one of those 3:20 regions in the physical space and see things
        thru the navamsa space, you are in the same old Cancer, i.e. 90-120
        deg. If 90-120 deg is the second house from 60-90 deg in the zodiac
        in one space, it is so in another space too. Period.
        >
        > If the planet is in 330:00-333:20 in the rasi chart, that is so in
        the physical rasi space. Once you are dealing with navamsa, don't
        think that it is still in 330:00-333:20. When viewed thru the navamsa
        space, it is NOT in that region. It is in 90:00-120:00 when viewed
        thru this space.
        >
        > Those who do not understand and appreciate this simple concept will
        tell you not to take houses in navamsa (and other divisions). But
        they will not be able to explain the verse I quoted above. Either
        they will have to accept their limitation in explaining it, like Sri
        Santhanam did (there is nothing wrong with it), or give some
        misinterpretation, like Santhanam did not. On the other hand, if you
        get this simple concept into your system, there are no issues. The
        choice is yours.
        >
        > There are many other references to houses in amsas by Parasara, but
        they are more ambiguous.
        >
        > Despite my strong (and quite justified, in my view) views on taking
        houses in navamsa and other divisional charts, I do respect those who
        think otherwise. I sincerely hope that they too can respect my views
        and agree to disagree. If they do not try to force me to accept their
        views or throw around objectionable adjectives to describe my views,
        I will not force them to accept their views.
        >
        > Understanding that houses in divisions are important is one thing
        and understanding how to use them and how to use houses in rasi chart
        and how to correlate the two is quite another thing. But that is not
        my focus for today.
        >
        > May Jupiter's light shine on us,
        > Narasimha
        > ----------------------------------------------------------------
        > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net
        > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
        > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org
        > ----------------------------------------------------------------
      • Panditji
        Namaste, What is the title of the chapter where this shloka appears ? The traslation I have chapeter 39 does not have this shlok. Could you please confirm the
        Message 3 of 18 , Jul 18, 2005
          Namaste,

          What is the title of the chapter where this shloka appears ? The
          traslation I have chapeter 39 does not have this shlok. Could you
          please confirm the title and chapter number so I can look up the
          shloka in the correct chapter.

          Thanks

          ...

          On 7/15/05, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr@...> wrote:
          > Namaste friends,
          >
          > I will not engage in a debate with Pradeep, who seems to make up his own
          > rules to play by and keeps changing them as the debate progresses. But I
          > wanted to write in detail about the verse I mentioned yesterday for the
          > benefit of those who are interested and also those who may be confused by
          > all this.
          >
          > I am using the ITrans convention for transliteration. You can cut & paste
          > this text into software supporting ITrans (e.g. "ITranslator 99" from
          > Omkarananda Ashram) and see the text in Sanskrit.
          >
          > lagna Shadvargake chaivamekakheTayutekShite |
          > rAjayogo bhavatyeva nirvishaMkam dvijottama || 39-13
          > pUrNa dR^iShTe pUrNayogamardhadR^iShTe.ardhameva ca |
          > pAdadR^iShTe pAdayogamiti GYaeyaM kramAt phalam || 39-14
          >
          > This verse means that if lagna in all the six divisions is occupied or
          > aspected by the same planet, it constitutes a raja yoga. Based on the
          > fullness of the aspect, the strength of the yoga is to be decided.
          >
          > One can argue that this is rasi drishti (which does not need houses), but
          > the mention of full, half and quarter aspects makes it quite obvious that
          > graha drishti based on houses is being referred to. In rasi drishti, there
          > are no grades of aspects.
          >
          > As a matter of fact, Sri Santhanam did not translate the verse any
          > differently than I would. In fact, I see no scope to translate differently.
          > Under his notes, Sri Santhanam wrote the following:
          >
          > "Aspects are referred to in the divisional charts here. I am unable to fully
          > conceive the logic in aspects in divisional charts for the sage himself
          > referred to the longitudinal aspectual evaluations in an earlier chapter.
          > Without commenting further on this controversial aspect I leave it at that,
          > accepting my limitations to explain this fully."
          >
          > While some people seem to be quite arrogant in vehemently and forcefully
          > dismissing the use of houses in navamsa despite the long history of the
          > practice by great scholars, one may notice that the great Santhanam was
          > quite humble. He did not question the verse or try to misinterpret it or
          > give alternate interpretations. He was a scholar. He clearly recognized what
          > this verse meant and what it implied!!! He simply accepted his limitation to
          > explain it further or make sense of its obvious implication.
          >
          > That is why I respect Sri Santhanam so much. Even if I disagree with him in
          > a few places based on careful study, it is nothing personal. As a person, I
          > respect him immensely. He is a great role model to aspiring scholars.
          >
          > Now, intelligent readers should note that Santhanam's "inability to explain
          > this fully" does not mean that the verse is wrong or questionable. As
          > Santhanam himself accepted, it was his "limitation" that he could not
          > "explain this fully". Now, let me try to "explain this fully". (Note to
          > Pradeep: I will NOT respond to any questions or comments from you.)
          >
          > If Jupiter is at 2 deg in Pisces (i.e. in 0:00-3:20), he is exalted is
          > Cancer in navamsa. Why is it called Cancer? We know that Aries, Taurus etc
          > are divisions of the "physical" zodiac and Cancer is physically the region
          > between 90 deg and 120 deg. Why didn't sages come up with new names for the
          > navamsa divisions, drekkana divisions etc? Why are all those divisions
          > mapped back to the same 12 signs? When we say that Jupiter in the above
          > example is in Cancer in navamsa, do we mean that he is between 90 deg and
          > 120 deg? Otherwise, why is it called "Cancer" for God's sake?
          >
          > This is the crux of the issue. If one understands this clearly, there is no
          > confusion and the above verse of Parasara makes perfect sense.
          >
          > Jupiter in the above example is in Pisces physically. So he is at 2 deg in
          > Pisces as far as Rasi chart or rasi space (i.e. physical space) is
          > concerned. But navamsa is a different chart altogether. It is a different
          > space altogether. It is not a physical space and is an abstract space (that
          > is why only rasi chart shows the physical existence, while navamsa shows an
          > abstract environment known as dharmik environment). A planet in 0:00-3:20 of
          > Pisces in the phsycial space (rasi) is mapped in this abstract navamsa space
          > to 0:00 to 30:00 of Cancer. In other words, a planet in 330:00-333:20 of the
          > zodiac in the physical space is mapped in this abstract navamsa space to
          > 90:00-120:00 of the zodiac. So Jupiter at 2 deg in Pisces in the physical
          > space (rasi) is at 18 deg in Cancer in the navamsa space. (Side note: In
          > fact, this is the very foundation of the casting of navamsa-dwadasamsa
          > chart. Navamsa-dwadasamsa is not based on dividing rasis into 108 parts and
          > linearly mapping them. Navamsa is the intermediate step. It is based on
          > casting navamsa, treating it as rasi and finding its dwadasamsa. The sign
          > occupied in navamsa-dwadasamsa by a planet at 2 deg in Pisces in rasi is the
          > same as the sign occupied in dwadasamsa by a planet at 18 deg in Cancer in
          > rasi!)
          >
          > If you realize this, then the fact that "the sage himself referred to the
          > longitudinal aspectual evaluations in an earlier chapter" is no longer a
          > concern and does not become a limitation in "accepting this fully".
          >
          > Some may tell you that Cancer in navamsa is not the same as Cancer in rasi.
          > Don't kid yourself. Otherwise, it wouldn't be called "Cancer". They
          > correspond to the same 30 degrees in the zodiac, albeit seen from two
          > different spaces. Cancer in rasi chart corresponds to the same 30 degrees in
          > the physical space, while Cancer in navamsa chart corresponds to a various
          > smaller regions when seen thru the physical space. But once you enter the
          > navamsa space thru one of those 3:20 regions in the physical space and see
          > things thru the navamsa space, you are in the same old Cancer, i.e. 90-120
          > deg. If 90-120 deg is the second house from 60-90 deg in the zodiac in one
          > space, it is so in another space too. Period.
          >
          > If the planet is in 330:00-333:20 in the rasi chart, that is so in the
          > physical rasi space. Once you are dealing with navamsa, don't think that it
          > is still in 330:00-333:20. When viewed thru the navamsa space, it is NOT in
          > that region. It is in 90:00-120:00 when viewed thru this space.
          >
          > Those who do not understand and appreciate this simple concept will tell you
          > not to take houses in navamsa (and other divisions). But they will not be
          > able to explain the verse I quoted above. Either they will have to accept
          > their limitation in explaining it, like Sri Santhanam did (there is nothing
          > wrong with it), or give some misinterpretation, like Santhanam did not. On
          > the other hand, if you get this simple concept into your system, there are
          > no issues. The choice is yours.
          >
          > There are many other references to houses in amsas by Parasara, but they are
          > more ambiguous.
          >
          > Despite my strong (and quite justified, in my view) views on taking houses
          > in navamsa and other divisional charts, I do respect those who think
          > otherwise. I sincerely hope that they too can respect my views and agree to
          > disagree. If they do not try to force me to accept their views or throw
          > around objectionable adjectives to describe my views, I will not force them
          > to accept their views.
          >
          > Understanding that houses in divisions are important is one thing and
          > understanding how to use them and how to use houses in rasi chart and how to
          > correlate the two is quite another thing. But that is not my focus for
          > today.
          >
          > May Jupiter's light shine on us,
          > Narasimha
          > ----------------------------------------------------------------
          > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3):
          > http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net
          > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
          > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org
          > ----------------------------------------------------------------
          >
          > Archives: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology
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          > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......
          >
          > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||
          >
          >
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        • sanjayprabhakaran
          ... Namaste Narasimhaji, Thanks you for taking the pains to get the quotes and teach us. Your teachings can teach even the dullest of student! :). It seems
          Message 4 of 18 , Jul 18, 2005
            || Om Gurave Namah ||
            Namaste Narasimhaji,

            Thanks you for taking the pains to get the quotes and teach us. Your
            teachings can teach even the dullest of student! :).

            It seems that still some are unable to comprehend or get Shlokas in
            some version of BPHS. I never needed the exact explicit reference. I
            always felt many other shlokas were refering to houses in Divisionals
            and always understood them as was taught to me.

            For those who are unable to find the reference I give a URL which has
            many sanskrit documents for the public.

            http://sanskrit.gde.to/doc_z_misc_sociology_astrology/par3140.itx

            A simple find in your web browser with any of the keywords given
            below should get you

            lagnashhaD.hvargake chaivamekakheTayutexite |
            rAjayogo bhavatyeva nirvishaMka dvijottama || 13||

            pUrNadR^ishhTe pUrnayogamardhadR^ishhTe.ardhameva cha |
            pAdadR^ishhTe pAdayogamiti GYeyaM kramAt.h phalam.h || 14||

            Still some can can argue whether this Shloka itself is authentic :) or
            this BPHS version is accurate!.

            Warm Regards
            Sanjay P

            Hari Om Tat Sat


            --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao"
            <pvr@c...> wrote:
            > Namaste friends,
            >
            > I will not engage in a debate with Pradeep, who seems to make up his
            own rules to play by and keeps changing them as the debate progresses.
            But I wanted to write in detail about the verse I mentioned yesterday
            for the benefit of those who are interested and also those who may be
            confused by all this.
            >
            > I am using the ITrans convention for transliteration. You can cut &
            paste this text into software supporting ITrans (e.g. "ITranslator 99"
            from Omkarananda Ashram) and see the text in Sanskrit.
            >
            > lagna Shadvargake chaivamekakheTayutekShite |
            > rAjayogo bhavatyeva nirvishaMkam dvijottama || 39-13
            > pUrNa dR^iShTe pUrNayogamardhadR^iShTe.ardhameva ca |
            > pAdadR^iShTe pAdayogamiti GYaeyaM kramAt phalam || 39-14
            >
            > This verse means that if lagna in all the six divisions is occupied
            or aspected by the same planet, it constitutes a raja yoga. Based on
            the fullness of the aspect, the strength of the yoga is to be decided.
            >
            > One can argue that this is rasi drishti (which does not need
            houses), but the mention of full, half and quarter aspects makes it
            quite obvious that graha drishti based on houses is being referred to.
            In rasi drishti, there are no grades of aspects.
            >
            > As a matter of fact, Sri Santhanam did not translate the verse any
            differently than I would. In fact, I see no scope to translate
            differently. Under his notes, Sri Santhanam wrote the following:
            >
            > "Aspects are referred to in the divisional charts here. I am unable
            to fully conceive the logic in aspects in divisional charts for the
            sage himself referred to the longitudinal aspectual evaluations in an
            earlier chapter. Without commenting further on this controversial
            aspect I leave it at that, accepting my limitations to explain this
            fully."
            >
            > While some people seem to be quite arrogant in vehemently and
            forcefully dismissing the use of houses in navamsa despite the long
            history of the practice by great scholars, one may notice that the
            great Santhanam was quite humble. He did not question the verse or try
            to misinterpret it or give alternate interpretations. He was a
            scholar. He clearly recognized what this verse meant and what it
            implied!!! He simply accepted his limitation to explain it further or
            make sense of its obvious implication.
            >
            > That is why I respect Sri Santhanam so much. Even if I disagree with
            him in a few places based on careful study, it is nothing personal. As
            a person, I respect him immensely. He is a great role model to
            aspiring scholars.
            >
            > Now, intelligent readers should note that Santhanam's "inability to
            explain this fully" does not mean that the verse is wrong or
            questionable. As Santhanam himself accepted, it was his "limitation"
            that he could not "explain this fully". Now, let me try to "explain
            this fully". (Note to Pradeep: I will NOT respond to any questions or
            comments from you.)
            >
            > If Jupiter is at 2 deg in Pisces (i.e. in 0:00-3:20), he is exalted
            is Cancer in navamsa. Why is it called Cancer? We know that Aries,
            Taurus etc are divisions of the "physical" zodiac and Cancer is
            physically the region between 90 deg and 120 deg. Why didn't sages
            come up with new names for the navamsa divisions, drekkana divisions
            etc? Why are all those divisions mapped back to the same 12 signs?
            When we say that Jupiter in the above example is in Cancer in navamsa,
            do we mean that he is between 90 deg and 120 deg? Otherwise, why is it
            called "Cancer" for God's sake?
            >
            > This is the crux of the issue. If one understands this clearly,
            there is no confusion and the above verse of Parasara makes perfect sense.
            >
            > Jupiter in the above example is in Pisces physically. So he is at 2
            deg in Pisces as far as Rasi chart or rasi space (i.e. physical space)
            is concerned. But navamsa is a different chart altogether. It is a
            different space altogether. It is not a physical space and is an
            abstract space (that is why only rasi chart shows the physical
            existence, while navamsa shows an abstract environment known as
            dharmik environment). A planet in 0:00-3:20 of Pisces in the phsycial
            space (rasi) is mapped in this abstract navamsa space to 0:00 to 30:00
            of Cancer. In other words, a planet in 330:00-333:20 of the zodiac in
            the physical space is mapped in this abstract navamsa space to
            90:00-120:00 of the zodiac. So Jupiter at 2 deg in Pisces in the
            physical space (rasi) is at 18 deg in Cancer in the navamsa space.
            (Side note: In fact, this is the very foundation of the casting of
            navamsa-dwadasamsa chart. Navamsa-dwadasamsa is not based on dividing
            rasis into 108 parts and linearly mapping them. Navamsa is the
            intermediate step. It is based on casting navamsa, treating it as rasi
            and finding its dwadasamsa. The sign occupied in navamsa-dwadasamsa by
            a planet at 2 deg in Pisces in rasi is the same as the sign occupied
            in dwadasamsa by a planet at 18 deg in Cancer in rasi!)
            >
            > If you realize this, then the fact that "the sage himself referred
            to the longitudinal aspectual evaluations in an earlier chapter" is no
            longer a concern and does not become a limitation in "accepting this
            fully".
            >
            > Some may tell you that Cancer in navamsa is not the same as Cancer
            in rasi. Don't kid yourself. Otherwise, it wouldn't be called
            "Cancer". They correspond to the same 30 degrees in the zodiac, albeit
            seen from two different spaces. Cancer in rasi chart corresponds to
            the same 30 degrees in the physical space, while Cancer in navamsa
            chart corresponds to a various smaller regions when seen thru the
            physical space. But once you enter the navamsa space thru one of those
            3:20 regions in the physical space and see things thru the navamsa
            space, you are in the same old Cancer, i.e. 90-120 deg. If 90-120 deg
            is the second house from 60-90 deg in the zodiac in one space, it is
            so in another space too. Period.
            >
            > If the planet is in 330:00-333:20 in the rasi chart, that is so in
            the physical rasi space. Once you are dealing with navamsa, don't
            think that it is still in 330:00-333:20. When viewed thru the navamsa
            space, it is NOT in that region. It is in 90:00-120:00 when viewed
            thru this space.
            >
            > Those who do not understand and appreciate this simple concept will
            tell you not to take houses in navamsa (and other divisions). But they
            will not be able to explain the verse I quoted above. Either they will
            have to accept their limitation in explaining it, like Sri Santhanam
            did (there is nothing wrong with it), or give some misinterpretation,
            like Santhanam did not. On the other hand, if you get this simple
            concept into your system, there are no issues. The choice is yours.
            >
            > There are many other references to houses in amsas by Parasara, but
            they are more ambiguous.
            >
            > Despite my strong (and quite justified, in my view) views on taking
            houses in navamsa and other divisional charts, I do respect those who
            think otherwise. I sincerely hope that they too can respect my views
            and agree to disagree. If they do not try to force me to accept their
            views or throw around objectionable adjectives to describe my views, I
            will not force them to accept their views.
            >
            > Understanding that houses in divisions are important is one thing
            and understanding how to use them and how to use houses in rasi chart
            and how to correlate the two is quite another thing. But that is not
            my focus for today.
            >
            > May Jupiter's light shine on us,
            > Narasimha
            > ----------------------------------------------------------------
            > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net
            > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
            > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org
            > ----------------------------------------------------------------
          • Panditji
            Namaste, Your sarcasm is uncalled for. Whether parashar unambiguously mentioned using divisions as separate charts is not a proven fact. Hanging a thesis based
            Message 5 of 18 , Jul 18, 2005
              Namaste,

              Your sarcasm is uncalled for. Whether parashar unambiguously mentioned
              using divisions as separate charts is not a proven fact. Hanging a
              thesis based on one verse is a dangerous path without knowing the
              context of the shloka. I have GC Sharmas traslation and I am not sure
              this shloka appears in that chapter when I briefly glanced at it.
              Thats why I asked for the title of the chapter where this shlok is
              presented.If you know the title I would appreciate if you had just
              sent that instead of holier than though preaching.

              Your sarcasms won't get you anywhere in predicting things. You may
              like to hang on one thread to build an entire preaching brigade. To me
              the proof is in whther this actually works in practice and I do not
              mean one or two charts where events are known. One can advance any
              thesis once the event is known.

              As you so sarcastically mentioned that some may argue whether the
              shloka is authentic or not. I do not think noone can say for sure what
              is authentic and what is not as no one knows or can prove who this
              Parashar was or this document as it exists now has been the origianl
              one or has been adulatrated.

              Question also remains what about some of the insatnces Mr. Vaijaydas
              mentioned that point to the references where it is stated that these
              are divisions and not separate charts ?

              If you want to use them use them. As narasimha has said noone is
              forcing anyone to use them and conversely I am saying who is
              preventing you are anyone from using it.

              If you can predict accurately in high percentage of cases, no one will
              even question whether you are using grahas in our solar system or some
              other galaxy or the ones mentioned in Star Trek. The rest of activity
              is just pure academic pedagogy of very little worth or consequence to
              the public at large.

              ...

              On 7/18/05, sanjayprabhakaran <sanjaychettiar@...> wrote:
              > || Om Gurave Namah ||
              > Namaste Narasimhaji,
              >
              > Thanks you for taking the pains to get the quotes and teach us. Your
              > teachings can teach even the dullest of student! :).
              >
              > It seems that still some are unable to comprehend or get Shlokas in
              > some version of BPHS. I never needed the exact explicit reference. I
              > always felt many other shlokas were refering to houses in Divisionals
              > and always understood them as was taught to me.
              >
              > For those who are unable to find the reference I give a URL which has
              > many sanskrit documents for the public.
              >
              > http://sanskrit.gde.to/doc_z_misc_sociology_astrology/par3140.itx
              >
              > A simple find in your web browser with any of the keywords given
              > below should get you
              >
              > lagnashhaD.hvargake chaivamekakheTayutexite |
              > rAjayogo bhavatyeva nirvishaMka dvijottama || 13||
              >
              > pUrNadR^ishhTe pUrnayogamardhadR^ishhTe.ardhameva cha |
              > pAdadR^ishhTe pAdayogamiti GYeyaM kramAt.h phalam.h || 14||
              >
              > Still some can can argue whether this Shloka itself is authentic :) or
              > this BPHS version is accurate!.
              >
              > Warm Regards
              > Sanjay P
              >
              > Hari Om Tat Sat
              >
              >
              > --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao"
              >
              > <pvr@c...> wrote:
              > > Namaste friends,
              > >
              > > I will not engage in a debate with Pradeep, who seems to make up his
              > own rules to play by and keeps changing them as the debate progresses.
              > But I wanted to write in detail about the verse I mentioned yesterday
              > for the benefit of those who are interested and also those who may be
              > confused by all this.
              > >
              > > I am using the ITrans convention for transliteration. You can cut &
              > paste this text into software supporting ITrans (e.g. "ITranslator 99"
              > from Omkarananda Ashram) and see the text in Sanskrit.
              > >
              > > lagna Shadvargake chaivamekakheTayutekShite |
              > > rAjayogo bhavatyeva nirvishaMkam dvijottama || 39-13
              > > pUrNa dR^iShTe pUrNayogamardhadR^iShTe.ardhameva ca |
              > > pAdadR^iShTe pAdayogamiti GYaeyaM kramAt phalam || 39-14
              > >
              > > This verse means that if lagna in all the six divisions is occupied
              > or aspected by the same planet, it constitutes a raja yoga. Based on
              > the fullness of the aspect, the strength of the yoga is to be decided.
              > >
              > > One can argue that this is rasi drishti (which does not need
              > houses), but the mention of full, half and quarter aspects makes it
              > quite obvious that graha drishti based on houses is being referred to.
              > In rasi drishti, there are no grades of aspects.
              > >
              > > As a matter of fact, Sri Santhanam did not translate the verse any
              > differently than I would. In fact, I see no scope to translate
              > differently. Under his notes, Sri Santhanam wrote the following:
              > >
              > > "Aspects are referred to in the divisional charts here. I am unable
              > to fully conceive the logic in aspects in divisional charts for the
              > sage himself referred to the longitudinal aspectual evaluations in an
              > earlier chapter. Without commenting further on this controversial
              > aspect I leave it at that, accepting my limitations to explain this
              > fully."
              > >
              > > While some people seem to be quite arrogant in vehemently and
              > forcefully dismissing the use of houses in navamsa despite the long
              > history of the practice by great scholars, one may notice that the
              > great Santhanam was quite humble. He did not question the verse or try
              > to misinterpret it or give alternate interpretations. He was a
              > scholar. He clearly recognized what this verse meant and what it
              > implied!!! He simply accepted his limitation to explain it further or
              > make sense of its obvious implication.
              > >
              > > That is why I respect Sri Santhanam so much. Even if I disagree with
              > him in a few places based on careful study, it is nothing personal. As
              > a person, I respect him immensely. He is a great role model to
              > aspiring scholars.
              > >
              > > Now, intelligent readers should note that Santhanam's "inability to
              > explain this fully" does not mean that the verse is wrong or
              > questionable. As Santhanam himself accepted, it was his "limitation"
              > that he could not "explain this fully". Now, let me try to "explain
              > this fully". (Note to Pradeep: I will NOT respond to any questions or
              > comments from you.)
              > >
              > > If Jupiter is at 2 deg in Pisces (i.e. in 0:00-3:20), he is exalted
              > is Cancer in navamsa. Why is it called Cancer? We know that Aries,
              > Taurus etc are divisions of the "physical" zodiac and Cancer is
              > physically the region between 90 deg and 120 deg. Why didn't sages
              > come up with new names for the navamsa divisions, drekkana divisions
              > etc? Why are all those divisions mapped back to the same 12 signs?
              > When we say that Jupiter in the above example is in Cancer in navamsa,
              > do we mean that he is between 90 deg and 120 deg? Otherwise, why is it
              > called "Cancer" for God's sake?
              > >
              > > This is the crux of the issue. If one understands this clearly,
              > there is no confusion and the above verse of Parasara makes perfect sense.
              > >
              > > Jupiter in the above example is in Pisces physically. So he is at 2
              > deg in Pisces as far as Rasi chart or rasi space (i.e. physical space)
              > is concerned. But navamsa is a different chart altogether. It is a
              > different space altogether. It is not a physical space and is an
              > abstract space (that is why only rasi chart shows the physical
              > existence, while navamsa shows an abstract environment known as
              > dharmik environment). A planet in 0:00-3:20 of Pisces in the phsycial
              > space (rasi) is mapped in this abstract navamsa space to 0:00 to 30:00
              > of Cancer. In other words, a planet in 330:00-333:20 of the zodiac in
              > the physical space is mapped in this abstract navamsa space to
              > 90:00-120:00 of the zodiac. So Jupiter at 2 deg in Pisces in the
              > physical space (rasi) is at 18 deg in Cancer in the navamsa space.
              > (Side note: In fact, this is the very foundation of the casting of
              > navamsa-dwadasamsa chart. Navamsa-dwadasamsa is not based on dividing
              > rasis into 108 parts and linearly mapping them. Navamsa is the
              > intermediate step. It is based on casting navamsa, treating it as rasi
              > and finding its dwadasamsa. The sign occupied in navamsa-dwadasamsa by
              > a planet at 2 deg in Pisces in rasi is the same as the sign occupied
              > in dwadasamsa by a planet at 18 deg in Cancer in rasi!)
              > >
              > > If you realize this, then the fact that "the sage himself referred
              > to the longitudinal aspectual evaluations in an earlier chapter" is no
              > longer a concern and does not become a limitation in "accepting this
              > fully".
              > >
              > > Some may tell you that Cancer in navamsa is not the same as Cancer
              > in rasi. Don't kid yourself. Otherwise, it wouldn't be called
              > "Cancer". They correspond to the same 30 degrees in the zodiac, albeit
              > seen from two different spaces. Cancer in rasi chart corresponds to
              > the same 30 degrees in the physical space, while Cancer in navamsa
              > chart corresponds to a various smaller regions when seen thru the
              > physical space. But once you enter the navamsa space thru one of those
              > 3:20 regions in the physical space and see things thru the navamsa
              > space, you are in the same old Cancer, i.e. 90-120 deg. If 90-120 deg
              > is the second house from 60-90 deg in the zodiac in one space, it is
              > so in another space too. Period.
              > >
              > > If the planet is in 330:00-333:20 in the rasi chart, that is so in
              > the physical rasi space. Once you are dealing with navamsa, don't
              > think that it is still in 330:00-333:20. When viewed thru the navamsa
              > space, it is NOT in that region. It is in 90:00-120:00 when viewed
              > thru this space.
              > >
              > > Those who do not understand and appreciate this simple concept will
              > tell you not to take houses in navamsa (and other divisions). But they
              > will not be able to explain the verse I quoted above. Either they will
              > have to accept their limitation in explaining it, like Sri Santhanam
              > did (there is nothing wrong with it), or give some misinterpretation,
              > like Santhanam did not. On the other hand, if you get this simple
              > concept into your system, there are no issues. The choice is yours.
              > >
              > > There are many other references to houses in amsas by Parasara, but
              > they are more ambiguous.
              > >
              > > Despite my strong (and quite justified, in my view) views on taking
              > houses in navamsa and other divisional charts, I do respect those who
              > think otherwise. I sincerely hope that they too can respect my views
              > and agree to disagree. If they do not try to force me to accept their
              > views or throw around objectionable adjectives to describe my views, I
              > will not force them to accept their views.
              > >
              > > Understanding that houses in divisions are important is one thing
              > and understanding how to use them and how to use houses in rasi chart
              > and how to correlate the two is quite another thing. But that is not
              > my focus for today.
              > >
              > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,
              > > Narasimha
              > >
              > ----------------------------------------------------------------
              > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3):
              > http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net
              > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
              > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org
              > >
              > ----------------------------------------------------------------
              >
              >
              >
              >
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              >
              > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||
              >
              >
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            • Narasimha P.V.R. Rao
              Namaste Pandit ji, ... What context? There is no context. This is a specific raja yoga. The verse in question is to be judged on its own. You can check
              Message 6 of 18 , Jul 18, 2005
                Namaste Pandit ji,
                 
                > Hanging a
                > thesis based on one verse is
                a dangerous path without knowing the
                > context of the shloka.  I have
                GC Sharmas traslation and I am not sure
                 
                What context? There is no context. This is a specific raja yoga. The verse in question is to be judged on its own.
                 
                You can check anybody's translation. The fact is that Santhanam did not believe in aspects in divisional charts, but he had to accept that they were mentioned in the verse.
                 
                I am a Sanskrit scholar with "Bhasha Kovida" and "Bhasha Visharada" degrees. I see nothing ambiguous in the verse. The verse clearly refers to aspects, that too graha drishti and not rasi drishti, in divisional charts. The verses from Narada Samhita given by Swee Chan also refer to aspects in divisional charts very specifically.
                 
                Now, coming to "hanging a thesis based on one verse", I have to make two points. One, even a single verse in BPHS cannot be unduly dismissed. Two, the "thesis" in fact does not hang on one verse.
                 
                Parasara defined moolatrikonas and exaltation regions as fractions of rasis (and not necessarily entire rasis) and later talked about planets being in moolatrikona and exaltation in divisional charts also. For example, Mercury is not exalted in the entire sign of Virgo. He is exalted in a part of it, in moolatrikona in another part of it and in own sign in the remaining part of Virgo (that was unambiguously stated by Parasara). The same Parasara later talked about checking the exalted placements of planets in navamsa and other divisions! This clearly suggests that Virgo in navamsa can be divided into own sign, exaltation and moolatrikona portions for Mercury just like Virgo in rasi chart can be.
                 
                What I outlined is not my "thesis" based on a verse. It is my "understanding" of the entire BPHS. It is not based on a single verse, but a uniform and coherent understanding based on the entire BPHS.
                 
                If a planet in Cancer is in the 4th house from a planet in Aries, it is so in divisions also. You don't expect Parasara to explicitly mention it. The very fact that divisional positions are mapped back to the same 12 signs of the physical zodiac says a lot. For example, navamsa positions could have been mapped to 108 new entities with names instead of the same old 12 signs. Some may choose to ignore this vital point, but I see a lot of obvious messages in it. You can disagree with me, but cannot say that I have no basis. I do have a basis.
                 
                I don't expect everybody to agree with me, but my understanding is very consistent, coherent and logical.
                 
                Please note that the whole thread started because a young man claimed regarding houses in divisional charts such as navamsa, "Sage has not advised us to use divisionals as charts...Trying to understand those subtle topics using houses can be treated only as a trial by inquisitive minds. It is a raw or first level attempt."
                 
                I view the use of houses in divisionals as a coherent and consistent understanding granted by the sage and well-established practice and one that enabled me to make a lot of correct predictions. The vehement dismissal and misleading of other people regarding my views is what got me into this thread.
                 
                If you and like-minded people give respect to my views and stop vehemently dismissing them, we can co-exist peacefully.
                 
                > this shloka appears in that chapter when I briefly glanced at it.
                > Thats why I asked for the title of the chapter
                where this shlok is
                > presented.If you know the title I would appreciate
                if you had just
                > sent that instead of holier than though
                preaching..
                 
                I trust you got what you wanted from Sanjay P.
                 
                > Question also remains what about some of the insatnces Mr. Vaijaydas
                > mentioned that point to the references where it
                is stated that these
                > are divisions and not separate charts
                ?

                 
                Which instances?? I found no such instances mentioned by him.
                 
                May Jupiter's light shine on us,
                Narasimha
                ----------------------------------------------------------------
                Free Jyotish lessons (MP3):
                http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net
                Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
                Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org
                ----------------------------------------------------------------
                 
                > Namaste,
                >
                > Your sarcasm is
                uncalled for. Whether parashar unambiguously mentioned
                > using divisions
                as separate charts is not a proven fact. Hanging a
                > thesis based on one
                verse is a dangerous path without knowing the
                > context of the
                shloka.  I have GC Sharmas traslation and I am not sure
                > this shloka
                appears in that chapter when I briefly glanced at it.
                > Thats why I asked
                for the title of the chapter where this shlok is
                > presented.If you know
                the title I would appreciate if you had just
                > sent that instead of holier
                than though preaching.
                >
                > Your sarcasms won't get you anywhere in
                predicting things. You may
                > like to hang on one thread to build an entire
                preaching brigade. To me
                > the proof is in whther this actually works in
                practice and I do not
                > mean one or two charts where events are known. One
                can advance any
                > thesis once the event is known.
                >
                > As you
                so sarcastically mentioned that some may argue whether the
                > shloka is
                authentic or not. I do not think noone can say for sure what
                > is
                authentic and what is not as no one knows or can prove who this
                > Parashar
                was or this document as it exists now has been the origianl
                > one or has
                been adulatrated.
                >
                > Question also remains what about some of the
                insatnces Mr. Vaijaydas
                > mentioned that point to the references where it
                is stated that these
                > are divisions and not separate charts ?
                >
                > If you want to use them use them. As narasimha has said noone
                is
                > forcing anyone to use them and conversely I am saying who is
                >
                preventing you are anyone from using it.
                >
                > If you can predict
                accurately in high percentage of cases, no one will
                > even question
                whether you are using grahas in our solar system or some
                > other galaxy or
                the ones mentioned in Star Trek. The rest of activity
                > is just pure
                academic pedagogy of very little worth or consequence to
                > the public at
                large.
                 
              • M Sharma
                Pandit-ji I do not know about slokas in different books. But here is my thought on using D9 and D10. You use what works for you and let others use what works
                Message 7 of 18 , Jul 18, 2005
                  Pandit-ji
                  I do not know about slokas in different books. But here is my
                  thought on using D9 and D10.

                  You use what works for you and let others use what works for them.
                  At the end of the day, what is important is giving good predictions
                  and consistent ones. I think there is universal agreement here.
                  There are hundreds of instances where rasi 10th lord is in bad shape
                  and its position improves in navamsa and dasamsha. If one sees only
                  rasi, then we are bound to make some mistakes. Navamsa is a must (no
                  disagreement here). Dasamsha is another very important divisional
                  chart.

                  I looked at two charts in the past month. Both are very contrasting.
                  Briefly..

                  A major politicain of UK - His 10th lord is in 12th, severely
                  afflicted and yet he is doing great. Why ? The reason is in D9 and
                  D10. D10 is really strong with a gajakesari yoga in 4th house of
                  parliament/simhasan.

                  Another one I looked at is that of US Attorney General Gonzales -
                  His D10 is not spectacular, but D9 and rasi are very strong.

                  I am sure others, such as Narasimha, have numerous examples of their
                  own. Best is to use what works for you.

                  Just my 2 cents..
                  Sincerely
                  Manjunath Sharma



                  --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao"
                  <pvr@c...> wrote:
                  > Namaste Pandit ji,
                  >
                  > > Hanging a
                  > > thesis based on one verse is a dangerous path without knowing the
                  > > context of the shloka. I have GC Sharmas traslation and I am
                  not sure
                  >
                  > What context? There is no context. This is a specific raja yoga.
                  The verse in question is to be judged on its own.
                  >
                  > You can check anybody's translation. The fact is that Santhanam
                  did not believe in aspects in divisional charts, but he had to
                  accept that they were mentioned in the verse.
                  >
                  > I am a Sanskrit scholar with "Bhasha Kovida" and "Bhasha
                  Visharada" degrees. I see nothing ambiguous in the verse. The verse
                  clearly refers to aspects, that too graha drishti and not rasi
                  drishti, in divisional charts. The verses from Narada Samhita given
                  by Swee Chan also refer to aspects in divisional charts very
                  specifically.
                  >
                  > Now, coming to "hanging a thesis based on one verse", I have to
                  make two points. One, even a single verse in BPHS cannot be unduly
                  dismissed. Two, the "thesis" in fact does not hang on one verse.
                  >
                  > Parasara defined moolatrikonas and exaltation regions as fractions
                  of rasis (and not necessarily entire rasis) and later talked about
                  planets being in moolatrikona and exaltation in divisional charts
                  also. For example, Mercury is not exalted in the entire sign of
                  Virgo. He is exalted in a part of it, in moolatrikona in another
                  part of it and in own sign in the remaining part of Virgo (that was
                  unambiguously stated by Parasara). The same Parasara later talked
                  about checking the exalted placements of planets in navamsa and
                  other divisions! This clearly suggests that Virgo in navamsa can be
                  divided into own sign, exaltation and moolatrikona portions for
                  Mercury just like Virgo in rasi chart can be.
                  >
                  > What I outlined is not my "thesis" based on a verse. It is
                  my "understanding" of the entire BPHS. It is not based on a single
                  verse, but a uniform and coherent understanding based on the entire
                  BPHS.
                  >
                  > If a planet in Cancer is in the 4th house from a planet in Aries,
                  it is so in divisions also. You don't expect Parasara to explicitly
                  mention it. The very fact that divisional positions are mapped back
                  to the same 12 signs of the physical zodiac says a lot. For example,
                  navamsa positions could have been mapped to 108 new entities with
                  names instead of the same old 12 signs. Some may choose to ignore
                  this vital point, but I see a lot of obvious messages in it. You can
                  disagree with me, but cannot say that I have no basis. I do have a
                  basis.
                  >
                  > I don't expect everybody to agree with me, but my understanding is
                  very consistent, coherent and logical.
                  >
                  > Please note that the whole thread started because a young man
                  claimed regarding houses in divisional charts such as navamsa, "Sage
                  has not advised us to use divisionals as charts...Trying to
                  understand those subtle topics using houses can be treated only as a
                  trial by inquisitive minds. It is a raw or first level attempt."
                  >
                  > I view the use of houses in divisionals as a coherent and
                  consistent understanding granted by the sage and well-established
                  practice and one that enabled me to make a lot of correct
                  predictions. The vehement dismissal and misleading of other people
                  regarding my views is what got me into this thread.
                  >
                  > If you and like-minded people give respect to my views and stop
                  vehemently dismissing them, we can co-exist peacefully.
                  >
                  > > this shloka appears in that chapter when I briefly glanced at it.
                  > > Thats why I asked for the title of the chapter where this shlok
                  is
                  > > presented.If you know the title I would appreciate if you had
                  just
                  > > sent that instead of holier than though preaching..
                  >
                  > I trust you got what you wanted from Sanjay P.
                  >
                  > > Question also remains what about some of the insatnces Mr.
                  Vaijaydas
                  > > mentioned that point to the references where it is stated that
                  these
                  > > are divisions and not separate charts ?
                  >
                  > Which instances?? I found no such instances mentioned by him.
                  >
                  > May Jupiter's light shine on us,
                  > Narasimha
                  > ----------------------------------------------------------------
                  > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net
                  > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
                  > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org
                  > ----------------------------------------------------------------
                  >
                  > > Namaste,
                  > >
                  > > Your sarcasm is uncalled for. Whether parashar unambiguously
                  mentioned
                  > > using divisions as separate charts is not a proven fact. Hanging
                  a
                  > > thesis based on one verse is a dangerous path without knowing the
                  > > context of the shloka. I have GC Sharmas traslation and I am
                  not sure
                  > > this shloka appears in that chapter when I briefly glanced at it.
                  > > Thats why I asked for the title of the chapter where this shlok
                  is
                  > > presented.If you know the title I would appreciate if you had
                  just
                  > > sent that instead of holier than though preaching.
                  > >
                  > > Your sarcasms won't get you anywhere in predicting things. You
                  may
                  > > like to hang on one thread to build an entire preaching brigade.
                  To me
                  > > the proof is in whther this actually works in practice and I do
                  not
                  > > mean one or two charts where events are known. One can advance
                  any
                  > > thesis once the event is known.
                  > >
                  > > As you so sarcastically mentioned that some may argue whether the
                  > > shloka is authentic or not. I do not think noone can say for
                  sure what
                  > > is authentic and what is not as no one knows or can prove who
                  this
                  > > Parashar was or this document as it exists now has been the
                  origianl
                  > > one or has been adulatrated.
                  > >
                  > > Question also remains what about some of the insatnces Mr.
                  Vaijaydas
                  > > mentioned that point to the references where it is stated that
                  these
                  > > are divisions and not separate charts ?
                  > >
                  > > If you want to use them use them. As narasimha has said noone is
                  > > forcing anyone to use them and conversely I am saying who is
                  > > preventing you are anyone from using it.
                  > >
                  > > If you can predict accurately in high percentage of cases, no
                  one will
                  > > even question whether you are using grahas in our solar system
                  or some
                  > > other galaxy or the ones mentioned in Star Trek. The rest of
                  activity
                  > > is just pure academic pedagogy of very little worth or
                  consequence to
                  > > the public at large.
                • avikrishna
                  Om krishna guru: ... The shlokas given by Narashimha as being in chapter 39 of santhanam translation are in chapter 41 titled RAJA YOGAS in GC SHARMA
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jul 19, 2005
                    Om krishna guru:

                    Namaste panditji:


                    > I have GC Sharmas traslation and I am not sure
                    > this shloka appears in that chapter when I briefly glanced at it.
                    > Thats why I asked for the title of the chapter where this shlok is
                    > presented.

                    The shlokas given by Narashimha as being in chapter 39 of santhanam
                    translation are in chapter 41 titled "RAJA YOGAS" in GC SHARMA
                    translation. the shloka numbers are the same 13 and 14.
                    I am mentioning from the 1999 reprint edition, page 548.

                    There is a verse in chapter of upapada(chapter 32 GCS) shloka 30, pg437
                    G C Sharma translation does not have the english meaning, it also has
                    some references to yogas in nvamsha and trishamsha kundali



                    Ishwar
                  • Panditji
                    Namaste Manju, In the chart you described what is the picture from chandra lagna ? Chandra as a reference point is very important. KN Rao has also mentioned
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jul 19, 2005
                      Namaste Manju,

                      In the chart you described what is the picture from chandra lagna ?
                      Chandra as a reference point is very important. KN Rao has also
                      mentioned this as being a life force of the kundali. Parashar says to
                      look from lagna or chandra whichever is stronger.

                      Secondly, in the examples you have cited, which kundali you will give
                      preference to ? In one case you have bad main kundali and good
                      dashamsha. In the other bad dashamsha but good rashi and navansha. Is
                      it 2 out of 3 ? 1 out of 3 ? Do you see the dilemma ? Are we using
                      even the principles being advocated consistently ? I had mentioned a
                      few days back that many say what is not promised by rashi won't be
                      given by division/divisional chart. Many who use divisions as charts
                      have also stated that. If that is the case why go to division to see
                      the promise if rashi is weak ? Is it just to justify what is already
                      known ? Have we dug deep into rashi kundali itself to understand the
                      workings of it ?

                      ...

                      On 7/18/05, M Sharma <chitra2pada@...> wrote:
                      > Pandit-ji
                      > I do not know about slokas in different books. But here is my
                      > thought on using D9 and D10.
                      >
                      > You use what works for you and let others use what works for them.
                      > At the end of the day, what is important is giving good predictions
                      > and consistent ones. I think there is universal agreement here.
                      > There are hundreds of instances where rasi 10th lord is in bad shape
                      > and its position improves in navamsa and dasamsha. If one sees only
                      > rasi, then we are bound to make some mistakes. Navamsa is a must (no
                      > disagreement here). Dasamsha is another very important divisional
                      > chart.
                      >
                      > I looked at two charts in the past month. Both are very contrasting.
                      > Briefly..
                      >
                      > A major politicain of UK - His 10th lord is in 12th, severely
                      > afflicted and yet he is doing great. Why ? The reason is in D9 and
                      > D10. D10 is really strong with a gajakesari yoga in 4th house of
                      > parliament/simhasan.
                      >
                      > Another one I looked at is that of US Attorney General Gonzales -
                      > His D10 is not spectacular, but D9 and rasi are very strong.
                      >
                      > I am sure others, such as Narasimha, have numerous examples of their
                      > own. Best is to use what works for you.
                      >
                      > Just my 2 cents..
                      > Sincerely
                      > Manjunath Sharma
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao"
                      > <pvr@c...> wrote:
                      > > Namaste Pandit ji,
                      > >
                      > > > Hanging a
                      > > > thesis based on one verse is a dangerous path without knowing the
                      > > > context of the shloka. I have GC Sharmas traslation and I am
                      > not sure
                      > >
                      > > What context? There is no context. This is a specific raja yoga.
                      > The verse in question is to be judged on its own.
                      > >
                      > > You can check anybody's translation. The fact is that Santhanam
                      > did not believe in aspects in divisional charts, but he had to
                      > accept that they were mentioned in the verse.
                      > >
                      > > I am a Sanskrit scholar with "Bhasha Kovida" and "Bhasha
                      > Visharada" degrees. I see nothing ambiguous in the verse. The verse
                      > clearly refers to aspects, that too graha drishti and not rasi
                      > drishti, in divisional charts. The verses from Narada Samhita given
                      > by Swee Chan also refer to aspects in divisional charts very
                      > specifically.
                      > >
                      > > Now, coming to "hanging a thesis based on one verse", I have to
                      > make two points. One, even a single verse in BPHS cannot be unduly
                      > dismissed. Two, the "thesis" in fact does not hang on one verse.
                      > >
                      > > Parasara defined moolatrikonas and exaltation regions as fractions
                      > of rasis (and not necessarily entire rasis) and later talked about
                      > planets being in moolatrikona and exaltation in divisional charts
                      > also. For example, Mercury is not exalted in the entire sign of
                      > Virgo. He is exalted in a part of it, in moolatrikona in another
                      > part of it and in own sign in the remaining part of Virgo (that was
                      > unambiguously stated by Parasara). The same Parasara later talked
                      > about checking the exalted placements of planets in navamsa and
                      > other divisions! This clearly suggests that Virgo in navamsa can be
                      > divided into own sign, exaltation and moolatrikona portions for
                      > Mercury just like Virgo in rasi chart can be.
                      > >
                      > > What I outlined is not my "thesis" based on a verse. It is
                      > my "understanding" of the entire BPHS. It is not based on a single
                      > verse, but a uniform and coherent understanding based on the entire
                      > BPHS.
                      > >
                      > > If a planet in Cancer is in the 4th house from a planet in Aries,
                      > it is so in divisions also. You don't expect Parasara to explicitly
                      > mention it. The very fact that divisional positions are mapped back
                      > to the same 12 signs of the physical zodiac says a lot. For example,
                      > navamsa positions could have been mapped to 108 new entities with
                      > names instead of the same old 12 signs. Some may choose to ignore
                      > this vital point, but I see a lot of obvious messages in it. You can
                      > disagree with me, but cannot say that I have no basis. I do have a
                      > basis.
                      > >
                      > > I don't expect everybody to agree with me, but my understanding is
                      > very consistent, coherent and logical.
                      > >
                      > > Please note that the whole thread started because a young man
                      > claimed regarding houses in divisional charts such as navamsa, "Sage
                      > has not advised us to use divisionals as charts...Trying to
                      > understand those subtle topics using houses can be treated only as a
                      > trial by inquisitive minds. It is a raw or first level attempt."
                      > >
                      > > I view the use of houses in divisionals as a coherent and
                      > consistent understanding granted by the sage and well-established
                      > practice and one that enabled me to make a lot of correct
                      > predictions. The vehement dismissal and misleading of other people
                      > regarding my views is what got me into this thread.
                      > >
                      > > If you and like-minded people give respect to my views and stop
                      > vehemently dismissing them, we can co-exist peacefully.
                      > >
                      > > > this shloka appears in that chapter when I briefly glanced at it.
                      > > > Thats why I asked for the title of the chapter where this shlok
                      > is
                      > > > presented.If you know the title I would appreciate if you had
                      > just
                      > > > sent that instead of holier than though preaching..
                      > >
                      > > I trust you got what you wanted from Sanjay P.
                      > >
                      > > > Question also remains what about some of the insatnces Mr.
                      > Vaijaydas
                      > > > mentioned that point to the references where it is stated that
                      > these
                      > > > are divisions and not separate charts ?
                      > >
                      > > Which instances?? I found no such instances mentioned by him.
                      > >
                      > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,
                      > > Narasimha
                      > >
                      > ----------------------------------------------------------------
                      > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3):
                      > http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net
                      > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
                      > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org
                      > >
                      > ----------------------------------------------------------------
                      > >
                      > > > Namaste,
                      > > >
                      > > > Your sarcasm is uncalled for. Whether parashar unambiguously
                      > mentioned
                      > > > using divisions as separate charts is not a proven fact. Hanging
                      > a
                      > > > thesis based on one verse is a dangerous path without knowing the
                      > > > context of the shloka. I have GC Sharmas traslation and I am
                      > not sure
                      > > > this shloka appears in that chapter when I briefly glanced at it.
                      > > > Thats why I asked for the title of the chapter where this shlok
                      > is
                      > > > presented.If you know the title I would appreciate if you had
                      > just
                      > > > sent that instead of holier than though preaching.
                      > > >
                      > > > Your sarcasms won't get you anywhere in predicting things. You
                      > may
                      > > > like to hang on one thread to build an entire preaching brigade.
                      > To me
                      > > > the proof is in whther this actually works in practice and I do
                      > not
                      > > > mean one or two charts where events are known. One can advance
                      > any
                      > > > thesis once the event is known.
                      > > >
                      > > > As you so sarcastically mentioned that some may argue whether the
                      > > > shloka is authentic or not. I do not think noone can say for
                      > sure what
                      > > > is authentic and what is not as no one knows or can prove who
                      > this
                      > > > Parashar was or this document as it exists now has been the
                      > origianl
                      > > > one or has been adulatrated.
                      > > >
                      > > > Question also remains what about some of the insatnces Mr.
                      > Vaijaydas
                      > > > mentioned that point to the references where it is stated that
                      > these
                      > > > are divisions and not separate charts ?
                      > > >
                      > > > If you want to use them use them. As narasimha has said noone is
                      > > > forcing anyone to use them and conversely I am saying who is
                      > > > preventing you are anyone from using it.
                      > > >
                      > > > If you can predict accurately in high percentage of cases, no
                      > one will
                      > > > even question whether you are using grahas in our solar system
                      > or some
                      > > > other galaxy or the ones mentioned in Star Trek. The rest of
                      > activity
                      > > > is just pure academic pedagogy of very little worth or
                      > consequence to
                      > > > the public at large.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Archives: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology
                      >
                      > Group info:
                      > http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology/info.html
                      >
                      > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to
                      > vedic-astrology-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                      >
                      > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......
                      >
                      > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
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                    • pvr108
                      Namaste Ishwar, Thank you very much for the highly relevant quote! This verse is remarkable, for it refers to Trimsamsa as a chart ( kundali ). See what it
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jul 19, 2005
                        Namaste Ishwar,

                        Thank you very much for the highly relevant quote! This verse is
                        remarkable, for it refers to Trimsamsa as a chart ("kundali"). See
                        what it says below:

                        sutabhAvanavAMshAchcha sthirasantatikArakAt.h |
                        evaM trishAMshakuNDalyAmapi yogaM vichintayet.h || 30||

                        The first line says that the yogas should be analyzed from
                        the "navamsa 5th house" and also from sthira putra karaka.
                        However, "suta bhava navamsa" could mean the 5th house of navamsa
                        chart or the navamsa position of [the cusp of] the 5th house of rasi
                        chart. Thus, it is not crystal clear that navamsa chart should be
                        used in the analysis or the 5th house in navamsa should be seen.
                        There is ambiguity in interpreting this line.

                        But the second line is reamrkable. It says that "like this, in
                        trimsamsa KUNDALI also, analyze yogas". It is explicitly mentioned
                        that Trimsamsa (D-30) is a "chart" (kundali) and that yogas should
                        be analyzed in it. With the use of the word "kuNDalyAM" ("in
                        kuNDalI"), there is no ambiguity whatsoever!!!

                        In fact, the unambiguous nature of this line tilts the balance in
                        the previous line also and one can confidently conclude that yogas
                        in navamsa and trimsamsa charts should be analyzed from the 5th
                        house and from fixed significator of children. Navamsa is the chart
                        of punya and blessings from it and Trimsamsa is the chart of paapa
                        and evils from it and it is apt that yogas in the 2 charts are
                        referred to!

                        Yet another thing to ponder for the young man who lamented that
                        people were not open-minded and were not willing to "accept their
                        mistakes". In order to accept my mistake, first I have to be
                        convinced that I made a mistake! He played a cop, a lawyer, a judge
                        and a sentry and concluded that others were wrong and their ego was
                        stopping them from accepting their mistakes. It perhaps never
                        occurred to him that he was being hasty or over-confident in
                        dismissing (as opposed to questioning) the views of others and that
                        it could be he who was wrong or enagaged in "raw or first level"
                        attempts or "trials". I have nothing personal against this young
                        man, as he is obviously quite intelligent and sincere. I wish him
                        well in his search for Truth, as I continue my own search for Truth.

                        May Jupiter's light shine on us,
                        Narasimha
                        ----------------------------------------------------------------
                        Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net
                        Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
                        Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org
                        ----------------------------------------------------------------

                        --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "avikrishna"
                        <avikrishna@y...> wrote:
                        > Om krishna guru:
                        >
                        > Namaste panditji:
                        >
                        > > I have GC Sharmas traslation and I am not sure
                        > > this shloka appears in that chapter when I briefly glanced at it.
                        > > Thats why I asked for the title of the chapter where this shlok
                        is
                        > > presented.
                        >
                        > The shlokas given by Narashimha as being in chapter 39 of
                        santhanam
                        > translation are in chapter 41 titled "RAJA YOGAS" in GC SHARMA
                        > translation. the shloka numbers are the same 13 and 14.
                        > I am mentioning from the 1999 reprint edition, page 548.
                        >
                        > There is a verse in chapter of upapada(chapter 32 GCS) shloka 30,
                        pg437
                        > G C Sharma translation does not have the english meaning, it also
                        has
                        > some references to yogas in nvamsha and trishamsha kundali
                        >
                        > Ishwar
                      • sanjayprabhakaran
                        ... Namaste Ishwar, Thank you and congratulations for fishing out one more gem of Maharishi Parashara and Also finding it in GC Sharma s edition. What s
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jul 19, 2005
                          || Om Gurave Namah ||
                          Namaste Ishwar,

                          Thank you and congratulations for fishing out one more gem of
                          Maharishi Parashara and Also finding it in GC Sharma's edition.

                          What's another very significant point about his shloka is that even
                          irregular chart like Parashara's Trimshamsha can be oserved like
                          __Kundali__.

                          This Shows (I think) that Great Maharishi Parashara is basically
                          dividing the whole space based on certain properties on space. And
                          when categorised and grouped in certains ways certain parts of zodiac
                          influence other parts of space/zodiac. This influence is called as
                          Drishti.

                          Warm Regards
                          Sanjay P

                          Hare Rama Krishna

                          --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "pvr108" <pvr@c...> wrote:
                          > Namaste Ishwar,
                          >
                          > Thank you very much for the highly relevant quote! This verse is
                          > remarkable, for it refers to Trimsamsa as a chart ("kundali"). See
                          > what it says below:
                          >
                          > sutabhAvanavAMshAchcha sthirasantatikArakAt.h |
                          > evaM trishAMshakuNDalyAmapi yogaM vichintayet.h || 30||
                          >
                          > The first line says that the yogas should be analyzed from
                          > the "navamsa 5th house" and also from sthira putra karaka.
                          > However, "suta bhava navamsa" could mean the 5th house of navamsa
                          > chart or the navamsa position of [the cusp of] the 5th house of rasi
                          > chart. Thus, it is not crystal clear that navamsa chart should be
                          > used in the analysis or the 5th house in navamsa should be seen.
                          > There is ambiguity in interpreting this line.
                          >
                          > But the second line is reamrkable. It says that "like this, in
                          > trimsamsa KUNDALI also, analyze yogas". It is explicitly mentioned
                          > that Trimsamsa (D-30) is a "chart" (kundali) and that yogas should
                          > be analyzed in it. With the use of the word "kuNDalyAM" ("in
                          > kuNDalI"), there is no ambiguity whatsoever!!!
                          >
                          > In fact, the unambiguous nature of this line tilts the balance in
                          > the previous line also and one can confidently conclude that yogas
                          > in navamsa and trimsamsa charts should be analyzed from the 5th
                          > house and from fixed significator of children. Navamsa is the chart
                          > of punya and blessings from it and Trimsamsa is the chart of paapa
                          > and evils from it and it is apt that yogas in the 2 charts are
                          > referred to!
                          >
                          > Yet another thing to ponder for the young man who lamented that
                          > people were not open-minded and were not willing to "accept their
                          > mistakes". In order to accept my mistake, first I have to be
                          > convinced that I made a mistake! He played a cop, a lawyer, a judge
                          > and a sentry and concluded that others were wrong and their ego was
                          > stopping them from accepting their mistakes. It perhaps never
                          > occurred to him that he was being hasty or over-confident in
                          > dismissing (as opposed to questioning) the views of others and that
                          > it could be he who was wrong or enagaged in "raw or first level"
                          > attempts or "trials". I have nothing personal against this young
                          > man, as he is obviously quite intelligent and sincere. I wish him
                          > well in his search for Truth, as I continue my own search for Truth.
                          >
                          > May Jupiter's light shine on us,
                          > Narasimha
                          > ----------------------------------------------------------------
                          > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net
                          > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
                          > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org
                          > ----------------------------------------------------------------
                          >
                          > --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "avikrishna"
                          > <avikrishna@y...> wrote:
                          > > Om krishna guru:
                          > >
                          > > Namaste panditji:
                          > >
                          > > > I have GC Sharmas traslation and I am not sure
                          > > > this shloka appears in that chapter when I briefly glanced at it.
                          > > > Thats why I asked for the title of the chapter where this shlok
                          > is
                          > > > presented.
                          > >
                          > > The shlokas given by Narashimha as being in chapter 39 of
                          > santhanam
                          > > translation are in chapter 41 titled "RAJA YOGAS" in GC SHARMA
                          > > translation. the shloka numbers are the same 13 and 14.
                          > > I am mentioning from the 1999 reprint edition, page 548.
                          > >
                          > > There is a verse in chapter of upapada(chapter 32 GCS) shloka 30,
                          > pg437
                          > > G C Sharma translation does not have the english meaning, it also
                          > has
                          > > some references to yogas in nvamsha and trishamsha kundali
                          > >
                          > > Ishwar
                        • pvr108
                          Namaste friends, One young man insisted not long ago that divisionals were not charts or Kundalis and that houses and aspects could not be seen in them. He
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jul 19, 2005
                            Namaste friends,

                            One young man insisted not long ago that divisionals were not charts
                            or Kundalis and that houses and aspects could not be seen in them.
                            He said you use them only to see if a planet is in exaltation or own
                            sign or otherwise strong.

                            Now, given this quote, he does not even acknowledge that he may not
                            have been correct in insisting that divisionals were not kundalis.
                            On the other hand, he insists "The word kundali does not mean we
                            have to see bhavas there", while simultaneously accusing ME
                            of "intelligently tilting the priority".

                            I wonder what a Kundali (chakra or chart) is then and also why he
                            insisted in the past that "divisionals" were not kundalis.

                            Regarding the term "suta bhava navamsa", I did make clear that there
                            were 2 ways to interpret it and did not try to manipulate. But
                            forget that for a moment. Look at the fact that panchami vibhakti
                            ("from" form) is used. We are told to see yogas FROM the putra
                            karaka and FROM the 5th house (of rasi or divisionals, leave that
                            aside for a moment) IN the navamsa and the trimsamsa KUNDALI also.

                            Please note that Parasara not only mentioned the 5th house and putra
                            karaka in D-9 and D-30, but he mentioned seeing yogas FROM them.
                            This "from" is the key. If yogas involving putra karaka in those
                            divisional charts were meant, the shashthi vibhakti ("of" form)
                            would've been used.

                            How do you see yogas FROM putra karaka IN D-30 CHART, if you don't
                            find houses from him in D-30? What is the purpose of "from" except
                            to imply a reference point for reckoning houses?

                            We cannot say anything conclusively on the importance of 5th house
                            of rasi chart vs 5th house in navamsa based on this verse. But, we
                            CAN conclude that navamsa and trimsamsa are "charts" and that we can
                            find houses from various references in those charts (including the
                            putra karaka) and also find yogas with respect to those points in
                            navamsa and trimsamsa charts!

                            May Jupiter's light shine on us,
                            Narasimha
                            ----------------------------------------------------------------
                            Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net
                            Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
                            Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org
                            ----------------------------------------------------------------

                            --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "pvr108" <pvr@c...> wrote:
                            > Namaste Ishwar,
                            >
                            > Thank you very much for the highly relevant quote! This verse is
                            > remarkable, for it refers to Trimsamsa as a chart ("kundali"). See
                            > what it says below:
                            >
                            > sutabhAvanavAMshAchcha sthirasantatikArakAt.h |
                            > evaM trishAMshakuNDalyAmapi yogaM vichintayet.h || 30||
                            >
                            > The first line says that the yogas should be analyzed from
                            > the "navamsa 5th house" and also from sthira putra karaka.
                            > However, "suta bhava navamsa" could mean the 5th house of navamsa
                            > chart or the navamsa position of [the cusp of] the 5th house of
                            rasi
                            > chart. Thus, it is not crystal clear that navamsa chart should be
                            > used in the analysis or the 5th house in navamsa should be seen.
                            > There is ambiguity in interpreting this line.
                            >
                            > But the second line is reamrkable. It says that "like this, in
                            > trimsamsa KUNDALI also, analyze yogas". It is explicitly mentioned
                            > that Trimsamsa (D-30) is a "chart" (kundali) and that yogas should
                            > be analyzed in it. With the use of the word "kuNDalyAM" ("in
                            > kuNDalI"), there is no ambiguity whatsoever!!!
                            >
                            > In fact, the unambiguous nature of this line tilts the balance in
                            > the previous line also and one can confidently conclude that yogas
                            > in navamsa and trimsamsa charts should be analyzed from the 5th
                            > house and from fixed significator of children. Navamsa is the
                            chart
                            > of punya and blessings from it and Trimsamsa is the chart of paapa
                            > and evils from it and it is apt that yogas in the 2 charts are
                            > referred to!
                            >
                            > Yet another thing to ponder for the young man who lamented that
                            > people were not open-minded and were not willing to "accept their
                            > mistakes". In order to accept my mistake, first I have to be
                            > convinced that I made a mistake! He played a cop, a lawyer, a
                            judge
                            > and a sentry and concluded that others were wrong and their ego
                            was
                            > stopping them from accepting their mistakes. It perhaps never
                            > occurred to him that he was being hasty or over-confident in
                            > dismissing (as opposed to questioning) the views of others and
                            that
                            > it could be he who was wrong or enagaged in "raw or first level"
                            > attempts or "trials". I have nothing personal against this young
                            > man, as he is obviously quite intelligent and sincere. I wish him
                            > well in his search for Truth, as I continue my own search for
                            Truth.
                            >
                            > May Jupiter's light shine on us,
                            > Narasimha
                            > ----------------------------------------------------------------
                            > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net
                            > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
                            > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org
                            > ----------------------------------------------------------------
                            >
                            > --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "avikrishna"
                            > <avikrishna@y...> wrote:
                            > > Om krishna guru:
                            > >
                            > > Namaste panditji:
                            > >
                            > > > I have GC Sharmas traslation and I am not sure
                            > > > this shloka appears in that chapter when I briefly glanced at
                            it.
                            > > > Thats why I asked for the title of the chapter where this
                            shlok
                            > is
                            > > > presented.
                            > >
                            > > The shlokas given by Narashimha as being in chapter 39 of
                            > santhanam
                            > > translation are in chapter 41 titled "RAJA YOGAS" in GC SHARMA
                            > > translation. the shloka numbers are the same 13 and 14.
                            > > I am mentioning from the 1999 reprint edition, page 548.
                            > >
                            > > There is a verse in chapter of upapada(chapter 32 GCS) shloka
                            30,
                            > pg437
                            > > G C Sharma translation does not have the english meaning, it
                            also
                            > has
                            > > some references to yogas in nvamsha and trishamsha kundali
                            > >
                            > > Ishwar
                          • vijayadas_pradeep
                            Dear Shri Prabhakaran Nothing against you.But yesterday we were so sarcastic to panditji while referring to one shloka from Shri Narasimha. We were very
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jul 19, 2005
                              Dear Shri Prabhakaran

                              Nothing against you.But yesterday we were so sarcastic to panditji
                              while referring to one shloka from Shri Narasimha.
                              We were very confident.What happened to that now.so how come one
                              ''more'' gem.Didnt we find it turning out into a bubble.
                              Even for the new shloka we have not found any references to bhavas.I
                              have explained my undersatnding in another mail.

                              Lo let us attempt the basic question.Hora is a main varga and falls
                              under shadvargas,which rudrabhatta had classified as one among the
                              shadchakras while interpreting parashara.Even shastyamsha does not
                              fall under shadvargas.Is it possile to see aspects or houses in Hora
                              as per parasharas definition.

                              Thanks
                              Pradeep


                              --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "sanjayprabhakaran"
                              <sanjaychettiar@g...> wrote:
                              > || Om Gurave Namah ||
                              > Namaste Ishwar,
                              >
                              > Thank you and congratulations for fishing out one more gem of
                              > Maharishi Parashara and Also finding it in GC Sharma's edition.
                              >
                              > What's another very significant point about his shloka is that even
                              > irregular chart like Parashara's Trimshamsha can be oserved like
                              > __Kundali__.
                              >
                              > This Shows (I think) that Great Maharishi Parashara is basically
                              > dividing the whole space based on certain properties on space. And
                              > when categorised and grouped in certains ways certain parts of zodiac
                              > influence other parts of space/zodiac. This influence is called as
                              > Drishti.
                              >
                              > Warm Regards
                              > Sanjay P
                              >
                              > Hare Rama Krishna
                              >
                              > --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "pvr108" <pvr@c...> wrote:
                              > > Namaste Ishwar,
                              > >
                              > > Thank you very much for the highly relevant quote! This verse is
                              > > remarkable, for it refers to Trimsamsa as a chart ("kundali"). See
                              > > what it says below:
                              > >
                              > > sutabhAvanavAMshAchcha sthirasantatikArakAt.h |
                              > > evaM trishAMshakuNDalyAmapi yogaM vichintayet.h || 30||
                              > >
                              > > The first line says that the yogas should be analyzed from
                              > > the "navamsa 5th house" and also from sthira putra karaka.
                              > > However, "suta bhava navamsa" could mean the 5th house of navamsa
                              > > chart or the navamsa position of [the cusp of] the 5th house of rasi
                              > > chart. Thus, it is not crystal clear that navamsa chart should be
                              > > used in the analysis or the 5th house in navamsa should be seen.
                              > > There is ambiguity in interpreting this line.
                              > >
                              > > But the second line is reamrkable. It says that "like this, in
                              > > trimsamsa KUNDALI also, analyze yogas". It is explicitly mentioned
                              > > that Trimsamsa (D-30) is a "chart" (kundali) and that yogas should
                              > > be analyzed in it. With the use of the word "kuNDalyAM" ("in
                              > > kuNDalI"), there is no ambiguity whatsoever!!!
                              > >
                              > > In fact, the unambiguous nature of this line tilts the balance in
                              > > the previous line also and one can confidently conclude that yogas
                              > > in navamsa and trimsamsa charts should be analyzed from the 5th
                              > > house and from fixed significator of children. Navamsa is the chart
                              > > of punya and blessings from it and Trimsamsa is the chart of paapa
                              > > and evils from it and it is apt that yogas in the 2 charts are
                              > > referred to!
                              > >
                              > > Yet another thing to ponder for the young man who lamented that
                              > > people were not open-minded and were not willing to "accept their
                              > > mistakes". In order to accept my mistake, first I have to be
                              > > convinced that I made a mistake! He played a cop, a lawyer, a judge
                              > > and a sentry and concluded that others were wrong and their ego was
                              > > stopping them from accepting their mistakes. It perhaps never
                              > > occurred to him that he was being hasty or over-confident in
                              > > dismissing (as opposed to questioning) the views of others and that
                              > > it could be he who was wrong or enagaged in "raw or first level"
                              > > attempts or "trials". I have nothing personal against this young
                              > > man, as he is obviously quite intelligent and sincere. I wish him
                              > > well in his search for Truth, as I continue my own search for Truth.
                              > >
                              > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,
                              > > Narasimha
                              > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
                              > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net
                              > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
                              > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org
                              > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
                              > >
                              > > --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "avikrishna"
                              > > <avikrishna@y...> wrote:
                              > > > Om krishna guru:
                              > > >
                              > > > Namaste panditji:
                              > > >
                              > > > > I have GC Sharmas traslation and I am not sure
                              > > > > this shloka appears in that chapter when I briefly glanced at it.
                              > > > > Thats why I asked for the title of the chapter where this shlok
                              > > is
                              > > > > presented.
                              > > >
                              > > > The shlokas given by Narashimha as being in chapter 39 of
                              > > santhanam
                              > > > translation are in chapter 41 titled "RAJA YOGAS" in GC SHARMA
                              > > > translation. the shloka numbers are the same 13 and 14.
                              > > > I am mentioning from the 1999 reprint edition, page 548.
                              > > >
                              > > > There is a verse in chapter of upapada(chapter 32 GCS) shloka 30,
                              > > pg437
                              > > > G C Sharma translation does not have the english meaning, it also
                              > > has
                              > > > some references to yogas in nvamsha and trishamsha kundali
                              > > >
                              > > > Ishwar
                            • vijayadas_pradeep
                              Dear leanred members I have always said we have not fully understood the usage of vargas.I have only said houses are not possible as sage has never advised nor
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jul 19, 2005
                                Dear leanred members

                                I have always said we have not fully understood the usage of vargas.I
                                have only said houses are not possible as sage has never advised nor
                                it is possible to deduce from the ig picture.Presiding dieties and
                                manyother subtler factorss needs to be studied and understood in
                                depth.For example Doorvasa,Agasthya,Narada etc carry specific
                                meanings,in the case of drekkana.Various hava lords or relevant ones
                                ,when placed in such drekkanas do convey specific meanings.Parashara
                                too has used Bhava lords(Rashi chakra) along with various amshas.But
                                can we see a single shloka where a navamsha bhava being used with its
                                shashtyamsha or drekkana.Thus sage is very clear on where to use Bhavas.

                                This is just to make matters clear and straight from my part.

                                Respect
                                Pradeep


                                --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "pvr108" <pvr@c...> wrote:
                                > Namaste friends,
                                >
                                > One young man insisted not long ago that divisionals were not charts
                                > or Kundalis and that houses and aspects could not be seen in them.
                                > He said you use them only to see if a planet is in exaltation or own
                                > sign or otherwise strong.
                                >
                                > Now, given this quote, he does not even acknowledge that he may not
                                > have been correct in insisting that divisionals were not kundalis.
                                > On the other hand, he insists "The word kundali does not mean we
                                > have to see bhavas there", while simultaneously accusing ME
                                > of "intelligently tilting the priority".
                                >
                                > I wonder what a Kundali (chakra or chart) is then and also why he
                                > insisted in the past that "divisionals" were not kundalis.
                                >
                                > Regarding the term "suta bhava navamsa", I did make clear that there
                                > were 2 ways to interpret it and did not try to manipulate. But
                                > forget that for a moment. Look at the fact that panchami vibhakti
                                > ("from" form) is used. We are told to see yogas FROM the putra
                                > karaka and FROM the 5th house (of rasi or divisionals, leave that
                                > aside for a moment) IN the navamsa and the trimsamsa KUNDALI also.
                                >
                                > Please note that Parasara not only mentioned the 5th house and putra
                                > karaka in D-9 and D-30, but he mentioned seeing yogas FROM them.
                                > This "from" is the key. If yogas involving putra karaka in those
                                > divisional charts were meant, the shashthi vibhakti ("of" form)
                                > would've been used.
                                >
                                > How do you see yogas FROM putra karaka IN D-30 CHART, if you don't
                                > find houses from him in D-30? What is the purpose of "from" except
                                > to imply a reference point for reckoning houses?
                                >
                                > We cannot say anything conclusively on the importance of 5th house
                                > of rasi chart vs 5th house in navamsa based on this verse. But, we
                                > CAN conclude that navamsa and trimsamsa are "charts" and that we can
                                > find houses from various references in those charts (including the
                                > putra karaka) and also find yogas with respect to those points in
                                > navamsa and trimsamsa charts!
                                >
                                > May Jupiter's light shine on us,
                                > Narasimha
                                > ----------------------------------------------------------------
                                > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net
                                > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
                                > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org
                                > ----------------------------------------------------------------
                                >
                                > --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "pvr108" <pvr@c...> wrote:
                                > > Namaste Ishwar,
                                > >
                                > > Thank you very much for the highly relevant quote! This verse is
                                > > remarkable, for it refers to Trimsamsa as a chart ("kundali"). See
                                > > what it says below:
                                > >
                                > > sutabhAvanavAMshAchcha sthirasantatikArakAt.h |
                                > > evaM trishAMshakuNDalyAmapi yogaM vichintayet.h || 30||
                                > >
                                > > The first line says that the yogas should be analyzed from
                                > > the "navamsa 5th house" and also from sthira putra karaka.
                                > > However, "suta bhava navamsa" could mean the 5th house of navamsa
                                > > chart or the navamsa position of [the cusp of] the 5th house of
                                > rasi
                                > > chart. Thus, it is not crystal clear that navamsa chart should be
                                > > used in the analysis or the 5th house in navamsa should be seen.
                                > > There is ambiguity in interpreting this line.
                                > >
                                > > But the second line is reamrkable. It says that "like this, in
                                > > trimsamsa KUNDALI also, analyze yogas". It is explicitly mentioned
                                > > that Trimsamsa (D-30) is a "chart" (kundali) and that yogas should
                                > > be analyzed in it. With the use of the word "kuNDalyAM" ("in
                                > > kuNDalI"), there is no ambiguity whatsoever!!!
                                > >
                                > > In fact, the unambiguous nature of this line tilts the balance in
                                > > the previous line also and one can confidently conclude that yogas
                                > > in navamsa and trimsamsa charts should be analyzed from the 5th
                                > > house and from fixed significator of children. Navamsa is the
                                > chart
                                > > of punya and blessings from it and Trimsamsa is the chart of paapa
                                > > and evils from it and it is apt that yogas in the 2 charts are
                                > > referred to!
                                > >
                                > > Yet another thing to ponder for the young man who lamented that
                                > > people were not open-minded and were not willing to "accept their
                                > > mistakes". In order to accept my mistake, first I have to be
                                > > convinced that I made a mistake! He played a cop, a lawyer, a
                                > judge
                                > > and a sentry and concluded that others were wrong and their ego
                                > was
                                > > stopping them from accepting their mistakes. It perhaps never
                                > > occurred to him that he was being hasty or over-confident in
                                > > dismissing (as opposed to questioning) the views of others and
                                > that
                                > > it could be he who was wrong or enagaged in "raw or first level"
                                > > attempts or "trials". I have nothing personal against this young
                                > > man, as he is obviously quite intelligent and sincere. I wish him
                                > > well in his search for Truth, as I continue my own search for
                                > Truth.
                                > >
                                > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,
                                > > Narasimha
                                > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
                                > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net
                                > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
                                > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org
                                > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
                                > >
                                > > --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "avikrishna"
                                > > <avikrishna@y...> wrote:
                                > > > Om krishna guru:
                                > > >
                                > > > Namaste panditji:
                                > > >
                                > > > > I have GC Sharmas traslation and I am not sure
                                > > > > this shloka appears in that chapter when I briefly glanced at
                                > it.
                                > > > > Thats why I asked for the title of the chapter where this
                                > shlok
                                > > is
                                > > > > presented.
                                > > >
                                > > > The shlokas given by Narashimha as being in chapter 39 of
                                > > santhanam
                                > > > translation are in chapter 41 titled "RAJA YOGAS" in GC SHARMA
                                > > > translation. the shloka numbers are the same 13 and 14.
                                > > > I am mentioning from the 1999 reprint edition, page 548.
                                > > >
                                > > > There is a verse in chapter of upapada(chapter 32 GCS) shloka
                                > 30,
                                > > pg437
                                > > > G C Sharma translation does not have the english meaning, it
                                > also
                                > > has
                                > > > some references to yogas in nvamsha and trishamsha kundali
                                > > >
                                > > > Ishwar
                              • Tutu
                                Dear friends, I am not disputing/ supporting here the use to divisional as independent charts but how to integrate both of them. Those astrologers who does not
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jul 19, 2005
                                  Dear friends,

                                  I am not disputing/ supporting here the use to divisional as
                                  independent charts but how to integrate both of them.

                                  Those astrologers who does not believe in treating divisionals as
                                  independent charts may be doing so for the reasons of their own.

                                  For example only the cuspal position of 1, 4,7,10 houses (under equal
                                  houses system) are mathematically represented by the respective
                                  houses in the Navamsa chart. To say in more detail: the 4th,8th and
                                  12th cusp of a chart falls in the same rasi in the Navamsa chart- the
                                  3rd, 7th and 11th cusps also falls in the same rasi in the Navamsa
                                  chart and so on is the case with other charts except with the D-3 and
                                  D-12. Perhaps this might be one of the reasons why Sage Parasara has
                                  advised to see all matters from D-12 whereas the other charts for
                                  some limited purpose.

                                  It is still to be seen whether an independent analysis of the lords
                                  of the other houses ( for example will exalted lord of 3rd and 11
                                  houses in the navamsa chart where navamsa lagna is not vargottama
                                  will ensure good results for brothers if the 7th lord of the Navamsa
                                  chart and its Rasi and its Navamsa dispositors are not strongly
                                  placed in the Rasi/Navamsa charts) in divisional charts (without
                                  depending upon the rasi chart) can assure us of an accurate
                                  prediction !

                                  IT WILL BE BETTER TO FIND TOGETHER FROM FACTS THAN DEBATE !
                                  -------------------------------------------
                                  Integrating Rasi chart with Navamsa or divisional charts
                                  ------------------------------------------------------

                                  We can take the cusp of various houses- i.e. the degree positions of
                                  houses- from it see the navamsa position- lord of that navamsa-
                                  thereafter position of this lord in the Rasi chart, as well as the
                                  position of Rasi/Navamsa dispositors of this lord in the Rasi chart.

                                  The same technique can be used in the reverse way i.e. from Rasi to
                                  Navama transposition and seeing the position of the lords and their
                                  dispositors.

                                  In this way we can come to a conclusion the relative strength of the
                                  Navamsa and Rasi chart and depend for our prediction on the stronger
                                  chart.

                                  This has been mentioned by Dr. B.V. Raman as well by Sage Satyacharya-
                                  in some way or other.

                                  Long back I had come across some articles on how to decipher the
                                  results of Vimshottari Dasha on the basis of transiposing the
                                  plannets from navamsa chart on the rasi chart. How to compare the
                                  strength of Rasi and Navamsa chart. In this artcles the author-
                                  famous astrologer Shri H. R. Shankar who has successfully predicted
                                  about Prime Ministership of Late Shri Moraraji Desai.

                                  In his articles Shri Shankar has used position of Rais/Navamsa
                                  dispositors of particular houses/lords of Navamsa charts- transposed
                                  back in the Rasi chart itself. (For example to see profession- taking
                                  10th house lord from Navamsa chart-

                                  (i) seeing its position in Rasi Chart as well as

                                  (ii) seeing its Navamsa/Rasi Dispositors in the Rasi Chart

                                  to arrive at a final conclusion regarding the 10th house matter).


                                  With regards to all,

                                  M.Tripathy

                                  Delhi
                                • Bharat
                                  Namaskaar All I think such debates and discussions are good and they give us and opportunity to see that we do not yet have unified system for predictions and
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Jul 20, 2005
                                    Namaskaar All

                                    I think such debates and discussions are good and they give us and
                                    opportunity to see that we do not yet have unified system for
                                    predictions and there are discrepencies present. To some, one part
                                    works and to the others some other part works. Those who are
                                    beginners, get to see different arguments, and can be drawn to any set
                                    of principles.

                                    In this sense to call anyone any names is immature and uncalled for.

                                    Look at the similarities
                                    The two persons who are arguing both stand for Astrology and its
                                    progress. Both have adequate knowledge to counter each other's
                                    arguments. Both want their interpretation of Jyotisha Texts to be
                                    available to new students of Astrology.

                                    I am neither troubled by this debate and nor would want it to end.
                                    However, any person representing a particular Jyotisha interpretation
                                    cannot be disrespected or called names. It is by this means only that
                                    the purpose of imparting and discussing Jyotish can be defeated in
                                    this forum.

                                    As Vedas put it:
                                    OM SAHANA VAVATU SAHANA BHUNATTU
                                    SAHA VIRYAM KARAWAVAHAI
                                    TEJASVINAVADITAMASTU
                                    MA VIDVISHAVAHAI
                                    OM SHANTI SHANTI SHANTI

                                    Thanks and Regards
                                    Bharat

                                    --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, tvrao <tvrao_agd@s...> wrote:
                                    > dear ???ji,
                                    >
                                    > why single out pvr? what about others? i think there is a long list
                                    in this
                                    > category.
                                    >
                                    > tvr
                                    > 9422203510
                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                                    > [mailto:vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of agatha christie
                                    > Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 5:26 AM
                                    > To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: Re: [vedic-astrology] Re: Wow Ishwar, what a Quote!! (Re:
                                    > Santhanam, Parasara's Verse...)
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > To Mr PVR,
                                    > Hey enough man !!! You are forever going bonkers !!!! LIke Mr
                                    KNRao said
                                    > in his interview about recent young astrologers ... " these young
                                    upcoming
                                    > astrologers become argumentative, arrogant and conceited"
                                    > You increasingly fit the description.
                                    >
                                    > pvr108 <pvr@c...> wrote:
                                    > Namaste friends,
                                    >
                                    > One young man insisted not long ago that divisionals were not charts
                                    > or Kundalis and that houses and aspects could not be seen in them.
                                    > He said you use them only to see if a planet is in exaltation or own
                                    > sign or otherwise strong.
                                    >
                                    > Now, given this quote, he does not even acknowledge that he may not
                                    > have been correct in insisting that divisionals were not kundalis.
                                    > On the other hand, he insists "The word kundali does not mean we
                                    > have to see bhavas there", while simultaneously accusing ME
                                    > of "intelligently tilting the priority".
                                    >
                                    > I wonder what a Kundali (chakra or chart) is then and also why he
                                    > insisted in the past that "divisionals" were not kundalis.
                                    >
                                    > Regarding the term "suta bhava navamsa", I did make clear that there
                                    > were 2 ways to interpret it and did not try to manipulate. But
                                    > forget that for a moment. Look at the fact that panchami vibhakti
                                    > ("from" form) is used. We are told to see yogas FROM the putra
                                    > karaka and FROM the 5th house (of rasi or divisionals, leave that
                                    > aside for a moment) IN the navamsa and the trimsamsa KUNDALI also.
                                    >
                                    > Please note that Parasara not only mentioned the 5th house and putra
                                    > karaka in D-9 and D-30, but he mentioned seeing yogas FROM them.
                                    > This "from" is the key. If yogas involving putra karaka in those
                                    > divisional charts were meant, the shashthi vibhakti ("of" form)
                                    > would've been used.
                                    >
                                    > How do you see yogas FROM putra karaka IN D-30 CHART, if you don't
                                    > find houses from him in D-30? What is the purpose of "from" except
                                    > to imply a reference point for reckoning houses?
                                    >
                                    > We cannot say anything conclusively on the importance of 5th house
                                    > of rasi chart vs 5th house in navamsa based on this verse. But, we
                                    > CAN conclude that navamsa and trimsamsa are "charts" and that we can
                                    > find houses from various references in those charts (including the
                                    > putra karaka) and also find yogas with respect to those points in
                                    > navamsa and trimsamsa charts!
                                    >
                                    > May Jupiter's light shine on us,
                                    > Narasimha
                                    > ----------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net
                                    > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
                                    > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org
                                    > ----------------------------------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "pvr108" <pvr@c...> wrote:
                                    > > Namaste Ishwar,
                                    > >
                                    > > Thank you very much for the highly relevant quote! This verse is
                                    > > remarkable, for it refers to Trimsamsa as a chart ("kundali"). See
                                    > > what it says below:
                                    > >
                                    > > sutabhAvanavAMshAchcha sthirasantatikArakAt.h |
                                    > > evaM trishAMshakuNDalyAmapi yogaM vichintayet.h || 30||
                                    > >
                                    > > The first line says that the yogas should be analyzed from
                                    > > the "navamsa 5th house" and also from sthira putra karaka.
                                    > > However, "suta bhava navamsa" could mean the 5th house of navamsa
                                    > > chart or the navamsa position of [the cusp of] the 5th house of
                                    > rasi
                                    > > chart. Thus, it is not crystal clear that navamsa chart should be
                                    > > used in the analysis or the 5th house in navamsa should be seen.
                                    > > There is ambiguity in interpreting this line.
                                    > >
                                    > > But the second line is reamrkable. It says that "like this, in
                                    > > trimsamsa KUNDALI also, analyze yogas". It is explicitly mentioned
                                    > > that Trimsamsa (D-30) is a "chart" (kundali) and that yogas should
                                    > > be analyzed in it. With the use of the word "kuNDalyAM" ("in
                                    > > kuNDalI"), there is no ambiguity whatsoever!!!
                                    > >
                                    > > In fact, the unambiguous nature of this line tilts the balance in
                                    > > the previous line also and one can confidently conclude that yogas
                                    > > in navamsa and trimsamsa charts should be analyzed from the 5th
                                    > > house and from fixed significator of children. Navamsa is the
                                    > chart
                                    > > of punya and blessings from it and Trimsamsa is the chart of paapa
                                    > > and evils from it and it is apt that yogas in the 2 charts are
                                    > > referred to!
                                    > >
                                    > > Yet another thing to ponder for the young man who lamented that
                                    > > people were not open-minded and were not willing to "accept their
                                    > > mistakes". In order to accept my mistake, first I have to be
                                    > > convinced that I made a mistake! He played a cop, a lawyer, a
                                    > judge
                                    > > and a sentry and concluded that others were wrong and their ego
                                    > was
                                    > > stopping them from accepting their mistakes. It perhaps never
                                    > > occurred to him that he was being hasty or over-confident in
                                    > > dismissing (as opposed to questioning) the views of others and
                                    > that
                                    > > it could be he who was wrong or enagaged in "raw or first level"
                                    > > attempts or "trials". I have nothing personal against this young
                                    > > man, as he is obviously quite intelligent and sincere. I wish him
                                    > > well in his search for Truth, as I continue my own search for
                                    > Truth.
                                    > >
                                    > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,
                                    > > Narasimha
                                    > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net
                                    > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
                                    > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org
                                    > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "avikrishna"
                                    > > <avikrishna@y...> wrote:
                                    > > > Om krishna guru:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Namaste panditji:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > > I have GC Sharmas traslation and I am not sure
                                    > > > > this shloka appears in that chapter when I briefly glanced at
                                    > it.
                                    > > > > Thats why I asked for the title of the chapter where this
                                    > shlok
                                    > > is
                                    > > > > presented.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > The shlokas given by Narashimha as being in chapter 39 of
                                    > > santhanam
                                    > > > translation are in chapter 41 titled "RAJA YOGAS" in GC SHARMA
                                    > > > translation. the shloka numbers are the same 13 and 14.
                                    > > > I am mentioning from the 1999 reprint edition, page 548.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > There is a verse in chapter of upapada(chapter 32 GCS) shloka
                                    > 30,
                                    > > pg437
                                    > > > G C Sharma translation does not have the english meaning, it
                                    > also
                                    > > has
                                    > > > some references to yogas in nvamsha and trishamsha kundali
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Ishwar
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > --
                                    > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
                                    >
                                    > Archives: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology
                                    >
                                    > Group info: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology/info.html
                                    >
                                    > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic-astrology-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                    >
                                    > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......
                                    >
                                    > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > --
                                    > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                    >
                                    > a.. Visit your group "vedic-astrology" on the web.
                                    >
                                    > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > vedic-astrology-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    >
                                    > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
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                                    > .
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > --
                                  • V.Partha sarathy
                                    Dear Narasimha My great Grandfather Sri.K.S.Shastry has analysed certain important things from Trimsamsa taking it as a chart. He is father of my maternal
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Jul 20, 2005
                                      Dear Narasimha

                                      My great Grandfather Sri.K.S.Shastry has analysed certain important
                                      things from Trimsamsa taking it as a chart. He is father of my
                                      maternal grandmother. One of the books has a foreword by Sri.B.V.Raman

                                      best wishes
                                      partha


                                      > >
                                      > > pvr108 <pvr@c...> wrote:
                                      > > Namaste friends,
                                      > >
                                      > > One young man insisted not long ago that divisionals were not
                                      charts
                                      > > or Kundalis and that houses and aspects could not be seen in
                                      them.
                                      > > He said you use them only to see if a planet is in exaltation
                                      or own
                                      > > sign or otherwise strong.
                                      > >
                                      > > Now, given this quote, he does not even acknowledge that he
                                      may not
                                      > > have been correct in insisting that divisionals were not
                                      kundalis.
                                      > > On the other hand, he insists "The word kundali does not mean
                                      we
                                      > > have to see bhavas there", while simultaneously accusing ME
                                      > > of "intelligently tilting the priority".
                                      > >
                                      > > I wonder what a Kundali (chakra or chart) is then and also
                                      why he
                                      > > insisted in the past that "divisionals" were not kundalis.
                                      > >
                                      > > Regarding the term "suta bhava navamsa", I did make clear
                                      that there
                                      > > were 2 ways to interpret it and did not try to manipulate. But
                                      > > forget that for a moment. Look at the fact that panchami
                                      vibhakti
                                      > > ("from" form) is used. We are told to see yogas FROM the putra
                                      > > karaka and FROM the 5th house (of rasi or divisionals, leave
                                      that
                                      > > aside for a moment) IN the navamsa and the trimsamsa KUNDALI
                                      also.
                                      > >
                                      > > Please note that Parasara not only mentioned the 5th house
                                      and putra
                                      > > karaka in D-9 and D-30, but he mentioned seeing yogas FROM
                                      them.
                                      > > This "from" is the key. If yogas involving putra karaka in
                                      those
                                      > > divisional charts were meant, the shashthi vibhakti ("of"
                                      form)
                                      > > would've been used.
                                      > >
                                      > > How do you see yogas FROM putra karaka IN D-30 CHART, if you
                                      don't
                                      > > find houses from him in D-30? What is the purpose of "from"
                                      except
                                      > > to imply a reference point for reckoning houses?
                                      > >
                                      > > We cannot say anything conclusively on the importance of 5th
                                      house
                                      > > of rasi chart vs 5th house in navamsa based on this verse.
                                      But, we
                                      > > CAN conclude that navamsa and trimsamsa are "charts" and that
                                      we can
                                      > > find houses from various references in those charts
                                      (including the
                                      > > putra karaka) and also find yogas with respect to those
                                      points in
                                      > > navamsa and trimsamsa charts!
                                      > >
                                      > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,
                                      > > Narasimha
                                      > > --------------------------------------------------------------
                                      --
                                      > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net
                                      > > Free Jyotish software (Windows):
                                      http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
                                      > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website:
                                      http://www.SriJagannath.org
                                      > > --------------------------------------------------------------
                                      --
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "pvr108" <pvr@c...>
                                      wrote:
                                      > > > Namaste Ishwar,
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Thank you very much for the highly relevant quote! This
                                      verse is
                                      > > > remarkable, for it refers to Trimsamsa as a chart
                                      ("kundali"). See
                                      > > > what it says below:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > sutabhAvanavAMshAchcha sthirasantatikArakAt.h |
                                      > > > evaM trishAMshakuNDalyAmapi yogaM vichintayet.h || 30||
                                      > > >
                                      > > > The first line says that the yogas should be analyzed from
                                      > > > the "navamsa 5th house" and also from sthira putra karaka.
                                      > > > However, "suta bhava navamsa" could mean the 5th house of
                                      navamsa
                                      > > > chart or the navamsa position of [the cusp of] the 5th
                                      house of
                                      > > rasi
                                      > > > chart. Thus, it is not crystal clear that navamsa chart
                                      should be
                                      > > > used in the analysis or the 5th house in navamsa should be
                                      seen.
                                      > > > There is ambiguity in interpreting this line.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > But the second line is reamrkable. It says that "like this,
                                      in
                                      > > > trimsamsa KUNDALI also, analyze yogas". It is explicitly
                                      mentioned
                                      > > > that Trimsamsa (D-30) is a "chart" (kundali) and that yogas
                                      should
                                      > > > be analyzed in it. With the use of the word "kuNDalyAM" ("in
                                      > > > kuNDalI"), there is no ambiguity whatsoever!!!
                                      > > >
                                      > > > In fact, the unambiguous nature of this line tilts the
                                      balance in
                                      > > > the previous line also and one can confidently conclude
                                      that yogas
                                      > > > in navamsa and trimsamsa charts should be analyzed from the
                                      5th
                                      > > > house and from fixed significator of children. Navamsa is
                                      the
                                      > > chart
                                      > > > of punya and blessings from it and Trimsamsa is the chart
                                      of paapa
                                      > > > and evils from it and it is apt that yogas in the 2 charts
                                      are
                                      > > > referred to!
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Yet another thing to ponder for the young man who lamented
                                      that
                                      > > > people were not open-minded and were not willing to "accept
                                      their
                                      > > > mistakes". In order to accept my mistake, first I have to be
                                      > > > convinced that I made a mistake! He played a cop, a lawyer,
                                      a
                                      > > judge
                                      > > > and a sentry and concluded that others were wrong and their
                                      ego
                                      > > was
                                      > > > stopping them from accepting their mistakes. It perhaps
                                      never
                                      > > > occurred to him that he was being hasty or over-confident in
                                      > > > dismissing (as opposed to questioning) the views of others
                                      and
                                      > > that
                                      > > > it could be he who was wrong or enagaged in "raw or first
                                      level"
                                      > > > attempts or "trials". I have nothing personal against this
                                      young
                                      > > > man, as he is obviously quite intelligent and sincere. I
                                      wish him
                                      > > > well in his search for Truth, as I continue my own search
                                      for
                                      > > Truth.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,
                                      > > > Narasimha
                                      > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
                                      ----
                                      > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3):
                                      http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net
                                      > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows):
                                      http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
                                      > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website:
                                      http://www.SriJagannath.org
                                      > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
                                      ----
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "avikrishna"
                                      > > > <avikrishna@y...> wrote:
                                      > > > > Om krishna guru:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Namaste panditji:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > > I have GC Sharmas traslation and I am not sure
                                      > > > > > this shloka appears in that chapter when I briefly
                                      glanced at
                                      > > it.
                                      > > > > > Thats why I asked for the title of the chapter where
                                      this
                                      > > shlok
                                      > > > is
                                      > > > > > presented.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > The shlokas given by Narashimha as being in chapter 39 of
                                      > > > santhanam
                                      > > > > translation are in chapter 41 titled "RAJA YOGAS" in GC
                                      SHARMA
                                      > > > > translation. the shloka numbers are the same 13 and 14.
                                      > > > > I am mentioning from the 1999 reprint edition, page 548.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > There is a verse in chapter of upapada(chapter 32 GCS)
                                      shloka
                                      > > 30,
                                      > > > pg437
                                      > > > > G C Sharma translation does not have the english meaning,
                                      it
                                      > > also
                                      > > > has
                                      > > > > some references to yogas in nvamsha and trishamsha kundali
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Ishwar
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      --------
                                      > > --
                                      > > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
                                      > >
                                      > > Archives: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology
                                      > >
                                      > > Group info: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-
                                      astrology/info.html
                                      > >
                                      > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic-astrology-
                                      unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                      > >
                                      > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......
                                      > >
                                      > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      --------
                                      > > --
                                      > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                      > >
                                      > > a.. Visit your group "vedic-astrology" on the web.
                                      > >
                                      > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                      > > vedic-astrology-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                      > >
                                      > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                                      of
                                      > Service
                                      > > .
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      --------
                                      > > --
                                    • vijayadas_pradeep
                                      Dear shri Bharat Shri Narasimha is a scholar with many years experience.It is his sincerity that make him debate with a student like me,though i would love to
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Jul 20, 2005
                                        Dear shri Bharat

                                        Shri Narasimha is a scholar with many years experience.It is his
                                        sincerity that make him debate with a student like me,though i would
                                        love to be compared with the scholar in him:-).When we know our
                                        limitations we can grow.When we think we know all ,that is the end.

                                        Thanks
                                        Pradeep

                                        --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "Bharat"
                                        <hinduastrology@g...> wrote:
                                        > Namaskaar All
                                        >
                                        > I think such debates and discussions are good and they give us and
                                        > opportunity to see that we do not yet have unified system for
                                        > predictions and there are discrepencies present. To some, one part
                                        > works and to the others some other part works. Those who are
                                        > beginners, get to see different arguments, and can be drawn to any
                                        set
                                        > of principles.
                                        >
                                        > In this sense to call anyone any names is immature and uncalled
                                        for.
                                        >
                                        > Look at the similarities
                                        > The two persons who are arguing both stand for Astrology and its
                                        > progress. Both have adequate knowledge to counter each other's
                                        > arguments. Both want their interpretation of Jyotisha Texts to be
                                        > available to new students of Astrology.
                                        >
                                        > I am neither troubled by this debate and nor would want it to end.
                                        > However, any person representing a particular Jyotisha
                                        interpretation
                                        > cannot be disrespected or called names. It is by this means only
                                        that
                                        > the purpose of imparting and discussing Jyotish can be defeated in
                                        > this forum.
                                        >
                                        > As Vedas put it:
                                        > OM SAHANA VAVATU SAHANA BHUNATTU
                                        > SAHA VIRYAM KARAWAVAHAI
                                        > TEJASVINAVADITAMASTU
                                        > MA VIDVISHAVAHAI
                                        > OM SHANTI SHANTI SHANTI
                                        >
                                        > Thanks and Regards
                                        > Bharat
                                        >
                                        > --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, tvrao <tvrao_agd@s...>
                                        wrote:
                                        > > dear ???ji,
                                        > >
                                        > > why single out pvr? what about others? i think there is a long
                                        list
                                        > in this
                                        > > category.
                                        > >
                                        > > tvr
                                        > > 9422203510
                                        > > -----Original Message-----
                                        > > From: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > [mailto:vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of agatha
                                        christie
                                        > > Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 5:26 AM
                                        > > To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > Subject: Re: [vedic-astrology] Re: Wow Ishwar, what a Quote!!
                                        (Re:
                                        > > Santhanam, Parasara's Verse...)
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > To Mr PVR,
                                        > > Hey enough man !!! You are forever going bonkers !!!! LIke Mr
                                        > KNRao said
                                        > > in his interview about recent young astrologers ... " these young
                                        > upcoming
                                        > > astrologers become argumentative, arrogant and conceited"
                                        > > You increasingly fit the description.
                                        > >
                                        > > pvr108 <pvr@c...> wrote:
                                        > > Namaste friends,
                                        > >
                                        > > One young man insisted not long ago that divisionals were
                                        not charts
                                        > > or Kundalis and that houses and aspects could not be seen in
                                        them.
                                        > > He said you use them only to see if a planet is in
                                        exaltation or own
                                        > > sign or otherwise strong.
                                        > >
                                        > > Now, given this quote, he does not even acknowledge that he
                                        may not
                                        > > have been correct in insisting that divisionals were not
                                        kundalis.
                                        > > On the other hand, he insists "The word kundali does not
                                        mean we
                                        > > have to see bhavas there", while simultaneously accusing ME
                                        > > of "intelligently tilting the priority".
                                        > >
                                        > > I wonder what a Kundali (chakra or chart) is then and also
                                        why he
                                        > > insisted in the past that "divisionals" were not kundalis.
                                        > >
                                        > > Regarding the term "suta bhava navamsa", I did make clear
                                        that there
                                        > > were 2 ways to interpret it and did not try to manipulate.
                                        But
                                        > > forget that for a moment. Look at the fact that panchami
                                        vibhakti
                                        > > ("from" form) is used. We are told to see yogas FROM the
                                        putra
                                        > > karaka and FROM the 5th house (of rasi or divisionals, leave
                                        that
                                        > > aside for a moment) IN the navamsa and the trimsamsa KUNDALI
                                        also.
                                        > >
                                        > > Please note that Parasara not only mentioned the 5th house
                                        and putra
                                        > > karaka in D-9 and D-30, but he mentioned seeing yogas FROM
                                        them.
                                        > > This "from" is the key. If yogas involving putra karaka in
                                        those
                                        > > divisional charts were meant, the shashthi vibhakti ("of"
                                        form)
                                        > > would've been used.
                                        > >
                                        > > How do you see yogas FROM putra karaka IN D-30 CHART, if you
                                        don't
                                        > > find houses from him in D-30? What is the purpose of "from"
                                        except
                                        > > to imply a reference point for reckoning houses?
                                        > >
                                        > > We cannot say anything conclusively on the importance of 5th
                                        house
                                        > > of rasi chart vs 5th house in navamsa based on this verse.
                                        But, we
                                        > > CAN conclude that navamsa and trimsamsa are "charts" and
                                        that we can
                                        > > find houses from various references in those charts
                                        (including the
                                        > > putra karaka) and also find yogas with respect to those
                                        points in
                                        > > navamsa and trimsamsa charts!
                                        > >
                                        > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,
                                        > > Narasimha
                                        > > -------------------------------------------------------------
                                        ---
                                        > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3):
                                        http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net
                                        > > Free Jyotish software (Windows):
                                        http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
                                        > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website:
                                        http://www.SriJagannath.org
                                        > > -------------------------------------------------------------
                                        ---
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "pvr108" <pvr@c...>
                                        wrote:
                                        > > > Namaste Ishwar,
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Thank you very much for the highly relevant quote! This
                                        verse is
                                        > > > remarkable, for it refers to Trimsamsa as a chart
                                        ("kundali"). See
                                        > > > what it says below:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > sutabhAvanavAMshAchcha sthirasantatikArakAt.h |
                                        > > > evaM trishAMshakuNDalyAmapi yogaM vichintayet.h || 30||
                                        > > >
                                        > > > The first line says that the yogas should be analyzed from
                                        > > > the "navamsa 5th house" and also from sthira putra karaka.
                                        > > > However, "suta bhava navamsa" could mean the 5th house of
                                        navamsa
                                        > > > chart or the navamsa position of [the cusp of] the 5th
                                        house of
                                        > > rasi
                                        > > > chart. Thus, it is not crystal clear that navamsa chart
                                        should be
                                        > > > used in the analysis or the 5th house in navamsa should be
                                        seen.
                                        > > > There is ambiguity in interpreting this line.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > But the second line is reamrkable. It says that "like
                                        this, in
                                        > > > trimsamsa KUNDALI also, analyze yogas". It is explicitly
                                        mentioned
                                        > > > that Trimsamsa (D-30) is a "chart" (kundali) and that
                                        yogas should
                                        > > > be analyzed in it. With the use of the word "kuNDalyAM"
                                        ("in
                                        > > > kuNDalI"), there is no ambiguity whatsoever!!!
                                        > > >
                                        > > > In fact, the unambiguous nature of this line tilts the
                                        balance in
                                        > > > the previous line also and one can confidently conclude
                                        that yogas
                                        > > > in navamsa and trimsamsa charts should be analyzed from
                                        the 5th
                                        > > > house and from fixed significator of children. Navamsa is
                                        the
                                        > > chart
                                        > > > of punya and blessings from it and Trimsamsa is the chart
                                        of paapa
                                        > > > and evils from it and it is apt that yogas in the 2 charts
                                        are
                                        > > > referred to!
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Yet another thing to ponder for the young man who lamented
                                        that
                                        > > > people were not open-minded and were not willing
                                        to "accept their
                                        > > > mistakes". In order to accept my mistake, first I have to
                                        be
                                        > > > convinced that I made a mistake! He played a cop, a
                                        lawyer, a
                                        > > judge
                                        > > > and a sentry and concluded that others were wrong and
                                        their ego
                                        > > was
                                        > > > stopping them from accepting their mistakes. It perhaps
                                        never
                                        > > > occurred to him that he was being hasty or over-confident
                                        in
                                        > > > dismissing (as opposed to questioning) the views of others
                                        and
                                        > > that
                                        > > > it could be he who was wrong or enagaged in "raw or first
                                        level"
                                        > > > attempts or "trials". I have nothing personal against this
                                        young
                                        > > > man, as he is obviously quite intelligent and sincere. I
                                        wish him
                                        > > > well in his search for Truth, as I continue my own search
                                        for
                                        > > Truth.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,
                                        > > > Narasimha
                                        > > > -----------------------------------------------------------
                                        -----
                                        > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3):
                                        http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net
                                        > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows):
                                        http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
                                        > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website:
                                        http://www.SriJagannath.org
                                        > > > -----------------------------------------------------------
                                        -----
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "avikrishna"
                                        > > > <avikrishna@y...> wrote:
                                        > > > > Om krishna guru:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Namaste panditji:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > > I have GC Sharmas traslation and I am not sure
                                        > > > > > this shloka appears in that chapter when I briefly
                                        glanced at
                                        > > it.
                                        > > > > > Thats why I asked for the title of the chapter where
                                        this
                                        > > shlok
                                        > > > is
                                        > > > > > presented.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > The shlokas given by Narashimha as being in chapter 39 of
                                        > > > santhanam
                                        > > > > translation are in chapter 41 titled "RAJA YOGAS" in GC
                                        SHARMA
                                        > > > > translation. the shloka numbers are the same 13 and 14.
                                        > > > > I am mentioning from the 1999 reprint edition, page 548.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > There is a verse in chapter of upapada(chapter 32 GCS)
                                        shloka
                                        > > 30,
                                        > > > pg437
                                        > > > > G C Sharma translation does not have the english
                                        meaning, it
                                        > > also
                                        > > > has
                                        > > > > some references to yogas in nvamsha and trishamsha
                                        kundali
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Ishwar
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
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                                        > >
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