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RE: [vedic-astrology] Re: atmakaraka in Al

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  • Sanjay Rath
    Jaya Jagannatha Dear Bharat You have made some very fine points about the nature of the arudha lagna and atmakaraka. Arudha lagna is the illusionary belief
    Message 1 of 32 , Jun 8, 2005

      Jaya Jagannatha
      Dear Bharat

      You have made some very fine points about the nature of the arudha lagna and atmakaraka.

      Arudha lagna is the illusionary belief system based on our indoctrination and what we consider as good and bad, what we consider as right and wrong. It is always black and white, the good guys and bad guys are based on this indoctrination by society (Moon) and mental experiences (Moon-manas) which is based on memory which agai is a function of selective retention (Jupiter) and selective erosion (Saturn) based on how pleasant they were. This emotion of pleasant memory and otherwise is subjective to the individual and will vary based on the rasi where the arudha lagna is. The arudha lagna is this illusion that is created by the intelligence (lagna and paka lagna).

      Now come to the possibility where the arudha lagna and atmakaraka are in the same sign. To be in the same sign it becomes imperative that the lagnesa and at atmakaraka are different planets. The indoctrination of the society of influence is indicated by the arudha lagna. Moon is the significator for this showing the primary indoctrination coming from the society connected with home - mother, mother tongue, family, childhood days etc. Jupiter is a great benefic for the fame and shows the indictrination coming from the learning that the society offers.

      Now Atmakaraka is like a Jyotirlinga. It holds tremendous knowlege - the knowledge of the paramesthi guru - the knowlegde of Shiva. This knowledge when coming into contact with any arudha or any graha pada throws up the *untruth* associated with the indoctrination. After all Shiva is - satyam shivam sundaram.

      That is why when the arudha lagna and the atmakaraka come together, the person starts to question the indoctrination of society. He challenges the teachings of the society and may reject many such teachings. Let us examine some of these cases (since you take the trouble of giving the example, its my pleasure to continue the thread).

      1. Mahatma Gandhi has atmakaraka Jupiter, so his arudha lagna and AL are not the same. I use the time of 7.30 am LMT for his chart as is reported widely. The change came for him due to the *atmakaraka replacement* caused by the Moon and Jupiter being in the same degree. So at about 24 -32 years of age he will change very drastically. When this change will occur, the arudha lagna and *new atmakaraka* will become one in Cancer and he questioned the political system of the day as he has Rahu influencing the atmakaraka Moon. He questioned the untruth in it and started to show the path to *RAMA RAJYA* through satyagraha. Remember New AK Moon is with Rahu.

      2. Jiddu Krishnamuti has the Sun atmakaraka in arudha lagna in Aries. This is the most royal sign and the Sun relates to father. There is a dictum which states that the Sun in the 1st or 7th house in Aries/Libra - native is abandoned by parents. This is true both for Bhagavan Sri Rama and Jiddu Krishnamurti who had Sun in AL in Aries and Saturn in 7th house. Krishnamurti lost his mother in 1905 and was finally adopted by Helena Blavatsky in 1910. Then there was a legal dispute over parental custody between Blavatsky and Jiddu Narasimah (Krishnamurti's biological father). It finally ended when Krishnamurti finall appeared at the Privy council and chose Blavatsky instead of his father. [at this stage the arudha lagna dominated over the atmakaraka as Krishnamurti was only 18 years old]. However, the atmakaraka started rising after his 28 years of age as it is in Aries - this was triggered by two events (1) death of father [Sun] in 1924 and (2) death of brother [Mars] in 1925. Look at the Sun in Aries as AK. Then in 1929 on the opening day of the annual Star Camp at Ommen, Holland, Krishnamurti dissolved the Order before 3000 members. This was the complete and total rejection of the arudha. He questioned the fundamental basis of the guru-shisya parampara and said that the spiritual path was a path to freedom while the guru-shisya parampara of spiritual lineages in India were a kind of bondage. Remember AK Sun in AL is aspected by Saturn.

      3. Dr. B.V.Raman has the atmakaraka Moon with Saturn in the arudha lagna and just like the other two cases, he questioned the basic theory that jyotisa should not be taught to foreigners as (1) Jyotisa was a vedanga and (2) it should not be taught in foreign languages. He was the first one to break free from this in a large scale teaching of jyotisa through the Astrological Magazine. To do this he needed to have another yoga as mentioned in Deva Keralam: The association of the lords of the 6th and 8th houses in a yoga with either the 5th lord or the 5th house. Such a person will teach the vedas and vedanga to foreigners in a foreign land and in a foreign language. In Dr Raman's chart we find that the fifth lord Mercury is also the 8th lord and is in kendra to Moon (sarada yoga) and with the dharma-karmadhipati yoga (highest yoga necessary to teach veda/vedanga).

      The point I am trying to make is that when you say (1) questionig process, there must be a suitable combination showing the questioning process and unless we have a saturn or Rahu involved what will trigger the questioning? Saturn indicates sorrow and suffering that triggers questioning while causes shocks to start the questioning. (2) Many factors that you state should be defined and in general is it necessary to achieve by teaching this knowledge to others? There are millions who have had similar lessons but did not bother to go out and teach it to others like the three we discussed above did. In each of their cases there were yogas outside the cmbination of AK and AL to support the activity that is required after the questioning process. (3) You have correctly pointed out that a harsh situation accelerates the questioning and change - this is perfectly right but then it must translate into *jyotisa language* which I have done by adding the terrible taste of the malefic planets.

      Finally Bharat, thanks for this. It made me see my own chart and wonder why I have done what I did so far and whether I should continue doing it. [Aug 7, 1963; 9.15 Pm Sambalpur, India] How many more harsh lessons will Saturn give.

      One more point - the final decision shall also depend on factors outside the AK, AL story. Lets try these - Why did Krishnamurti reject the Guru-shisya parampara of ancient India? Did the makara lagna have a say? Why did Gandhi take to Satyagraha on the one hand and dilly dally with satyagraha in sexual control? Did the Libra lagna with Mars and Venus have a say?

      With best wishes and warm regards,
      Sanjay Rath
      * * *
      Sri Jagannath Center®
      15B Gangaram Hospital Road
      New Delhi 110060, India
      http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162
      * * *


      >-----Original Message-----
      >From:
      bharateiya [mailto:bharateiya@...]
      >Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 12:20 AM
      >To:
      vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: [vedic-astrology] Re: atmakaraka
      in Al
      >
      >Namaskaar Again Sri Sanjay
      >
      >Greal souls who
      have Atmakaraka in Arudha Lagna are:
      >1. Mahatma Gandhi
      >2. Sri J.
      Krishnamurthi
      >3. Sri Bangalore Venkata Raman
      >
      >There are
      others whose Atmakaraka aspects the Arudha Lagna:
      >1. Sri Raman Maharishi
      - 7th from AL Moon AK 2. Sri Sathya Sai
      >Bada - 5th from AL Guru AK 3. Sri
      Gautam Buddha - 7th from AL
      >Buddha AK 4. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu - 7th
      from AL Saturn AK
      >
      >I have no references from classical text to
      show how this
      >occurs. My logic is:
      >Arudha Lagna signifies the
      illusion which is born out of the
      >seizing effect of Grahas. Seizing is to
      close one'e eyes to
      >the whole picture
      >(Truth) and thereby cause
      ignorance. The mind then
      >misinterprets the whole picture by way of
      Arudha.
      >
      >Atmakaraka is the force that desires freedom. It propels
      us
      >towards it.
      >
      >Atmakaraka in AL signify two opposite
      forces and therefore a conflict.
      >Atmakaraka if strong and in its period,
      will cause a rift in the mind.
      >It will start the questioning process. The
      questioning process
      >shall succeed or not is dependent upon many factors.
      However,
      >the march towards emotional maturity and understanding
      the
      >limitedness of illusionary joys begins.
      >
      >If a harsh
      situation occurs for the native, then this process
      >can be
      faster.
      >
      >This is a topic to be researched and I request others to
      post
      >their views and if they have sastras know how, then, to share
      it.
      >
      >Thanks and
      Regards
      >Bharat
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >--- In
      vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "Sanjay Rath"
      ><guruji@s...>
      wrote:
      >> 
      >> 
      >> Jaya
      Jagannatha
      >> Dear Bharat
      >> Can you cite some examples of
      great souls who have the atmakaraka in
      >arudha
      >> lagna and have
      shown the path to immortality or moksha or some such
      >great
      >>
      activity? I shall be most grateful.
      >> With best wishes and warm
      regards,
      >> Sanjay Rath
      >> * * *
      >> Sri Jagannath
      CenterR
      >> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road
      >> New Delhi 110060,
      India
      >>
      face=Georgia>http://srath.com <http://srath.com/> , +91-11-25717162
      >> * *
      *
      >> 
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> bharateiya
      <bharateiya@y...> wrote:
      >>
      >> Namaskaar Shree
      Aruna
      >>
      >> Atmakaraka is a propelling graha towards knowledge
      of oneself. In
      >> Arudha lagna it disspells the ignorance and the
      illusion. The result
      >> is in whenever the associated period
      starts...the person
      >will have to
      >> come face with a difficult
      circumstance and way out will show the
      >> person a great secret about
      life.
      >>
      >> The person will realize two sides of a coin is
      actually the
      >same coin.
      >> Such a person will be a great
      mediator and a diplomat. The native is
      >> keen on Self Analysis and can
      recognize slowly and steadily
      >the effect
      >> of Maya
      within.
      >>
      >> Such a person can a good teacher and can guide
      others towards their
      >> learning and solving life's
      matters.
      >>
      >> I would love to hear other's comments on this
      very interesting topic.
      >>
      >> Thanks and Regards
      >>
      Bharat
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> --- In
      vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "a_srimantula"
      >>
      <a_srimantula@y...> wrote:
      >> > Respected Gurus,
      >> >
      >> > In general what are the results of atmakaraka in
      Arudhalagna?
      >> > 
      >> >
      >> > Thanking
      you all
      >> > Aruna
      Srimantula
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
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    • anuraagsharma27
      Respected Sanjay Ji, Pranaam. I ve had some time to ponder the last post from you on this topic. I find certain crucial things clarified in my mind. I found
      Message 32 of 32 , Jun 13, 2005
        Respected Sanjay Ji,
        Pranaam.

        I've had some time to ponder the last post from you on this topic. I
        find certain crucial things clarified in my mind.

        I found that the Arudha does not merely encompass the attentions of
        the world but also of the Jatak himself. It struck me that after all
        the location of the Arudha is contingent on the location of the
        Lagnesh/ Paka Lagna.

        It also became clearer to me as to how Guru would govern the memory
        since you have taught that Guru is the Karaka of the Paka lagna. The
        Self we can see from the Lagna/ Lagnesh.

        The Arudha and its qualities, then have two observers: the world and
        the Jatak himself. I understand now that the two references are
        distinct.

        It was thought-provoking to see the term used by you in that
        post:'the hangover of the Arudha'. It is indicative of something
        that lingers even though the Arudha itself has metamorphosised.
        Later in the post you also choose to question the change in the
        Arudha after death.

        Generally speaking, some factors come to mind, though I cannot
        venture how legitimate they might be. One, Guru's location in the
        chart, since He is very good for the Arudha in general and in the
        2nd House from the AL could give an Arudha that lingers on/ even
        rises after death. Guru, as you have pointed out, is the embodiment
        of Narayana in the chart and would not be curtialed by the ceasing
        of the body to still promote the Arudha through fame.

        Another factor could be the location of the Moon with respect to the
        Arudha Lagna. An exalted Graha in the 7th from the AL is said to
        give fame. If Chandra as the Karaka of the Arudha is well disposed,
        perhaps in the 7th from the AL, or elsewhere, the social
        manifstation (AL) may continue to thrive after death.

        What secrets might linger between the Bhavas as reckoned from the
        Lagna and those as reckoned from the Arudha I suspect are not before
        us at the present moment.I do not include everyone in this 'us' and
        some may actually have these linkages.

        For example, the fact that the 3rd and 6th from the AL have been
        taught to determine renunciation is, in my amateur opinion, a
        pointer to the deep roots between the metaphysics so loaded in the
        Bhavas as counted from Lagna, and the sheer precipitate of the
        Arudha. The Arudha may be Mayik but I do not think renunciation
        would be seen from the AL unless there were deeper links between
        that which rises and that which makes it rise. Else, from untruth
        emerges the methodology to determine true shunning of the gloss of
        the world? Unlikely.

        I am grateful for your elaboration on the matter.

        Anurag.











        --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "Sanjay Rath" <guruji@s...>
        wrote:
        >
        >
        > Jaya Jagannatha
        > Dear Anurag
        > Illusion is not something that is just centric to the individual.
        It is an
        > image and will be seen differently b different people based on
        their own
        > perception of the image. The way you look at Bill Clinton shall be
        different
        > than the way I see him or the way Hillary Clinton sees him, so it
        is centric
        > from various view points. Yet it is an image and this image is a
        more than
        > life figure as the President of the USA. This image is the arudha
        and he
        > rode this image for some time and then the nature of the arudha
        changed, yet
        > the hangover of the arudha continues. It is more like a flavor
        that is based
        > on retained memory. Now we all know (retained memory) that he was
        the
        > president. He also knows this. What happens to one like President
        Reagan who
        > loses the memory that he was President. What effect does this have
        on the
        > arudha? Does it cause the arudha to change from (1) his
        perspective and (2)
        > from the worlds perspective. So you see the arudha is important
        and the paka
        > lagna is also very important. If the lagnesa does not like the
        arudha for
        > some reason in the change in dasa due to anifestation of disease
        or an
        > accident etc, then the memory of the arudha maybe wiped out. Here
        the AK
        > comes into the picture and you will find the AK laying a role to
        do this
        > job...or sometimes the GURU the Bhratrkaraka as the Guru has the
        power to
        > memory. See Reagans chart.
        >
        > In Reagans chart the AK Mercury is in lagna (intelligence) with
        Mars and
        > aspected by Rahu...is this not a curse coming on the Mercury? Note
        that
        > there are two charakaraka replacements involving (1) PiK and PK
        and (2) BK
        > and MK. It was in the dasa of the AK which is also badhakesh and
        in the
        > curse that the disease got really bad, especially after 1994
        onwards. I
        > think he finally died in Merc dasa Mars antardasa...planets in
        lagna.
        >
        > Point again is did the arudha change? From his viewpoint
        [lagna/lagnesh] it
        > did as he forget he was President, and even forgot the name of his
        wife
        > etc...it must be very painful for the near and dear ones. But for
        the world
        > [Moon] the arudha never changed.
        >
        > Now try to do the chart of someone like Saint Joan who was burnt
        as a witch
        > and then canonised as a saint. The arudha changed after death! How
        do we see
        > this??? Interesting.
        >
        > With best wishes and warm regards,
        > Sanjay Rath
        > * * *
        > Sri Jagannath CenterR
        > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road
        > New Delhi 110060, India
        > http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162
        > * * *
        >
        >
        > >-----Original Message-----
        > >From: anuraagsharma27 [mailto:anuraagsharma27@h...]
        > >Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 11:14 AM
        > >To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
        > >Subject: [vedic-astrology] Re: atmakaraka in Al
        > >
        > >Respected Sanjay Ji,
        > >
        > >Pranaam.
        > >
        > >Firstly, thank you for the illuminating post about the
        > >linkages between the Arudha Lagna and the Atmakaraka.
        > >
        > >I have some questions. It is stated that the Arudha Lagna is
        > >our illusory belief system. It has been consistently seen in
        > >the writings here that all Arudha Padas shows the illusions of
        > >the 'world' about the various facets of the native's life as
        > >seen from the various Bhavas and then manifested as visible
        > >indications by the Bhava Padas themselves. It has been taught
        > >basically that the metaphysical truth about the Jatak is seen
        > >from the Lagna, and what the world perceives of the native is
        > >seen from the Arudha Lagna.
        > >
        > >Is the illusion of Maya that subsists in the Arudha Lagna
        > >native- centric? Does it arise of the beliefs of the native
        > >himself, whether through retention or rejection of memory or
        > >is it that these factors apply to the world at large when they
        > >contemplate the native in their own minds?
        > >
        > >It has also been stated in the past that the illusions of the
        > >native are seen from the Graha Arudhas.
        > >
        > >I suspect there is probably some serious flaw in my
        > >understanding or something is amiss. I tend to think that
        > >there may not be water- tight distinctions between the various
        > >reference points but it would be illuminating if you could
        > >shed some more light on this.
        > >
        > >Could it also be that when AK and AL are conjoined, what
        > >happens is that the influences that were coming from the
        > >society in the form of opinions and ideas of that society
        > >pertaining to the native (AL?), are seen for what they
        > >actually are (AK influnece) and the hold of Maya is weakened
        > >as the Satya (AK) exposes the empty shell of the Arudha? The
        > >timing could be done from the Vimshottari of the AK and the
        > >replacement studied as you have instructed in your post.
        > >
        > >It is clear from the post as to the effects of the AK and
        > >linkages with Shani and the effects that could accrue. You
        > >have taught that the 7th from AL is the opposition to the
        > >image just as the Grahas in the 7th from UL tend to show
        > >opposing forces from the family of the spouse. In one's own
        > >chart (11th June,1972;10:17 AM; Cuttack,
        > >Orissa) the Lagnesh is also the AK placed with Shani and an
        > >Amavasya Tithi Chandra in the 10th House, 7th from the AL, and
        > >the Surya-Chandra- Shani Yuti is also aspected by the Nodes!
        > >The interactions of the image have been such that the
        > >tremendous rush and fall of the AL caused by Rashi Drishti of
        > >the nodes has been deciphered for being what it is: a big show
        > >of transience that changes in such a fickle manner.
        > >
        > >Since the AK is with Shani in A7, just as you have instructed
        > >in the post, the realities relating to interaction have also
        > >been suspected, piercing the veil of the Darapada. I am
        > >hopeful that to this extent I have understood what has been
        taught.
        > >
        > >It would be kind of you to clear the doubts as to
        > >indoctrination and the AL.
        > >
        > >I am aware that this message may have many errors and only
        > >seeks to lay down some of my thoughts on the matter.
        > >
        > >Regards.
        > >
        > >Anurag Sharma.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >--- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "Sanjay Rath"
        <guruji@s...>
        > >wrote:
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> Jaya Jagannatha
        > >> Dear Bharat
        > >>
        > >> You have made some very fine points about the nature of the
        arudha
        > >lagna and
        > >> atmakaraka.
        > >>
        > >> Arudha lagna is the illusionary belief system based on our
        > >indoctrination
        > >> and what we consider as good and bad, what we consider as right
        > >and wrong.
        > >> It is always black and white, the good guys and bad guys are
        based
        > >on this
        > >> indoctrination by society (Moon) and mental experiences (Moon-
        > >manas) which
        > >> is based on memory which agai is a function of selective
        retention
        > >(Jupiter)
        > >> and selective erosion (Saturn) based on how pleasant they were.
        > >This emotion
        > >> of pleasant memory and otherwise is subjective to the individual
        > >and will
        > >> vary based on the rasi where the arudha lagna is. The arudha
        lagna
        > >is this
        > >> illusion that is created by the intelligence (lagna and paka
        > >lagna).
        > >>
        > >> Now come to the possibility where the arudha lagna and
        atmakaraka
        > >are in the
        > >> same sign. To be in the same sign it becomes imperative that the
        > >lagnesa and
        > >> at atmakaraka are different planets. The indoctrination of the
        > >society of
        > >> influence is indicated by the arudha lagna. Moon is the
        > >significator for
        > >> this showing the primary indoctrination coming from the society
        > >connected
        > >> with home - mother, mother tongue, family, childhood days etc.
        > >Jupiter is a
        > >> great benefic for the fame and shows the indictrination coming
        > >from the
        > >> learning that the society offers.
        > >>
        > >> Now Atmakaraka is like a Jyotirlinga. It holds tremendous
        > >knowlege - the
        > >> knowledge of the paramesthi guru - the knowlegde of Shiva. This
        > >knowledge
        > >> when coming into contact with any arudha or any graha pada
        throws
        > >up the
        > >> *untruth* associated with the indoctrination. After all Shiva
        is -
        > >satyam
        > >> shivam sundaram.
        > >>
        > >> That is why when the arudha lagna and the atmakaraka come
        > >together, the
        > >> person starts to question the indoctrination of society. He
        > >challenges the
        > >> teachings of the society and may reject many such teachings. Let
        > >us examine
        > >> some of these cases (since you take the trouble of giving the
        > >example, its
        > >> my pleasure to continue the thread).
        > >>
        > >> 1. Mahatma Gandhi has atmakaraka Jupiter, so his arudha lagna
        and
        > >AL are not
        > >> the same. I use the time of 7.30 am LMT for his chart as is
        > >reported widely.
        > >> The change came for him due to the *atmakaraka replacement*
        caused
        > >by the
        > >> Moon and Jupiter being in the same degree. So at about 24 -32
        > >years of age
        > >> he will change very drastically. When this change will occur,
        the
        > >arudha
        > >> lagna and *new atmakaraka* will become one in Cancer and he
        > >questioned the
        > >> political system of the day as he has Rahu influencing the
        > >atmakaraka Moon.
        > >> He questioned the untruth in it and started to show the path to
        > >*RAMA RAJYA*
        > >> through satyagraha. Remember New AK Moon is with Rahu.
        > >>
        > >> 2. Jiddu Krishnamuti has the Sun atmakaraka in arudha lagna in
        > >Aries. This
        > >> is the most royal sign and the Sun relates to father. There is a
        > >dictum
        > >> which states that the Sun in the 1st or 7th house in
        Aries/Libra -
        > >native is
        > >> abandoned by parents. This is true both for Bhagavan Sri Rama
        and
        > >Jiddu
        > >> Krishnamurti who had Sun in AL in Aries and Saturn in 7th house.
        > >> Krishnamurti lost his mother in 1905 and was finally adopted by
        > >Helena
        > >> Blavatsky in 1910. Then there was a legal dispute over parental
        > >custody
        > >> between Blavatsky and Jiddu Narasimah (Krishnamurti's biological
        > >father). It
        > >> finally ended when Krishnamurti finall appeared at the Privy
        > >council and
        > >> chose Blavatsky instead of his father. [at this stage the arudha
        > >lagna
        > >> dominated over the atmakaraka as Krishnamurti was only 18 years
        > >old].
        > >> However, the atmakaraka started rising after his 28 years of age
        > >as it is in
        > >> Aries - this was triggered by two events (1) death of father
        [Sun]
        > >in 1924
        > >> and (2) death of brother [Mars] in 1925. Look at the Sun in
        Aries
        > >as AK.
        > >> Then in 1929 on the opening day of the annual Star Camp at
        Ommen,
        > >Holland,
        > >> Krishnamurti dissolved the Order before 3000 members. This was
        the
        > >complete
        > >> and total rejection of the arudha. He questioned the fundamental
        > >basis of
        > >> the guru-shisya parampara and said that the spiritual path was a
        > >path to
        > >> freedom while the guru-shisya parampara of spiritual lineages in
        > >India were
        > >> a kind of bondage. Remember AK Sun in AL is aspected by Saturn.
        > >>
        > >> 3. Dr. B.V.Raman has the atmakaraka Moon with Saturn in the
        arudha
        > >lagna and
        > >> just like the other two cases, he questioned the basic theory
        that
        > >jyotisa
        > >> should not be taught to foreigners as (1) Jyotisa was a vedanga
        > >and (2) it
        > >> should not be taught in foreign languages. He was the first one
        to
        > >break
        > >> free from this in a large scale teaching of jyotisa through the
        > >Astrological
        > >> Magazine. To do this he needed to have another yoga as mentioned
        > >in Deva
        > >> Keralam: The association of the lords of the 6th and 8th houses
        in
        > >a yoga
        > >> with either the 5th lord or the 5th house. Such a person will
        > >teach the
        > >> vedas and vedanga to foreigners in a foreign land and in a
        foreign
        > >language.
        > >> In Dr Raman's chart we find that the fifth lord Mercury is also
        > >the 8th lord
        > >> and is in kendra to Moon (sarada yoga) and with the dharma-
        > >karmadhipati yoga
        > >> (highest yoga necessary to teach veda/vedanga).
        > >>
        > >> The point I am trying to make is that when you say (1)
        questionig
        > >process,
        > >> there must be a suitable combination showing the questioning
        > >process and
        > >> unless we have a saturn or Rahu involved what will trigger the
        > >questioning?
        > >> Saturn indicates sorrow and suffering that triggers questioning
        > >while causes
        > >> shocks to start the questioning. (2) Many factors that you state
        > >should be
        > >> defined and in general is it necessary to achieve by teaching
        this
        > >knowledge
        > >> to others? There are millions who have had similar lessons but
        did
        > >not
        > >> bother to go out and teach it to others like the three we
        > >discussed above
        > >> did. In each of their cases there were yogas outside the
        > >cmbination of AK
        > >> and AL to support the activity that is required after the
        > >questioning
        > >> process. (3) You have correctly pointed out that a harsh
        situation
        > >> accelerates the questioning and change - this is perfectly right
        > >but then it
        > >> must translate into *jyotisa language* which I have done by
        adding
        > >the
        > >> terrible taste of the malefic planets.
        > >>
        > >> Finally Bharat, thanks for this. It made me see my own chart and
        > >wonder why
        > >> I have done what I did so far and whether I should continue
        doing
        > >it. [Aug
        > >> 7, 1963; 9.15 Pm Sambalpur, India] How many more harsh lessons
        > >will Saturn
        > >> give.
        > >>
        > >> One more point - the final decision shall also depend on factors
        > >outside the
        > >> AK, AL story. Lets try these - Why did Krishnamurti reject the
        > >Guru-shisya
        > >> parampara of ancient India? Did the makara lagna have a say? Why
        > >did Gandhi
        > >> take to Satyagraha on the one hand and dilly dally with
        satyagraha
        > >in sexual
        > >> control? Did the Libra lagna with Mars and Venus have a say?
        > >>
        > >> With best wishes and warm regards,
        > >> Sanjay Rath
        > >> * * *
        > >> Sri Jagannath CenterR
        > >> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road
        > >> New Delhi 110060, India
        > >> <http://srath.com> http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162
        > >> * * *
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> >-----Original Message-----
        > >> >From: bharateiya [ <mailto:bharateiya@y...>
        > >> mailto:bharateiya@y...]
        > >> >Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 12:20 AM
        > >> >To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
        > >> >Subject: [vedic-astrology] Re: atmakaraka in Al
        > >> >
        > >> >Namaskaar Again Sri Sanjay
        > >> >
        > >> >Greal souls who have Atmakaraka in Arudha Lagna are:
        > >> >1. Mahatma Gandhi
        > >> >2. Sri J. Krishnamurthi
        > >> >3. Sri Bangalore Venkata Raman
        > >> >
        > >> >There are others whose Atmakaraka aspects the Arudha Lagna:
        > >> >1. Sri Raman Maharishi - 7th from AL Moon AK 2. Sri Sathya
        > >Sai Bada -
        > >> >5th from AL Guru AK 3. Sri Gautam Buddha - 7th from AL Buddha
        AK 4.
        > >> >Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu - 7th from AL Saturn AK
        > >> >
        > >> >I have no references from classical text to show how this
        > >occurs. My
        > >> >logic is:
        > >> >Arudha Lagna signifies the illusion which is born out of
        > >the seizing
        > >> >effect of Grahas. Seizing is to close one'e eyes to the
        > >whole picture
        > >> >(Truth) and thereby cause ignorance. The mind then
        > >misinterprets the
        > >> >whole picture by way of Arudha.
        > >> >
        > >> >Atmakaraka is the force that desires freedom. It propels us
        towards
        > >> >it.
        > >> >
        > >> >Atmakaraka in AL signify two opposite forces and therefore a
        > >conflict.
        > >> >Atmakaraka if strong and in its period, will cause a rift in
        the
        > >mind.
        > >> >It will start the questioning process. The questioning
        > >process shall
        > >> >succeed or not is dependent upon many factors. However, the
        march
        > >> >towards emotional maturity and understanding the limitedness
        of
        > >> >illusionary joys begins.
        > >> >
        > >> >If a harsh situation occurs for the native, then this
        > >process can be
        > >> >faster.
        > >> >
        > >> >This is a topic to be researched and I request others to post
        their
        > >> >views and if they have sastras know how, then, to share it.
        > >> >
        > >> >Thanks and Regards
        > >> >Bharat
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >--- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "Sanjay Rath"
        > >> ><guruji@s...> wrote:
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >> Jaya Jagannatha
        > >> >> Dear Bharat
        > >> >> Can you cite some examples of great souls who have the
        > >atmakaraka in
        > >> >arudha
        > >> >> lagna and have shown the path to immortality or moksha or
        some
        > >such
        > >> >great
        > >> >> activity? I shall be most grateful.
        > >> >> With best wishes and warm regards,
        > >> >> Sanjay Rath
        > >> >> * * *
        > >> >> Sri Jagannath CenterR
        > >> >> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road
        > >> >> New Delhi 110060, India
        > >> >> <http://srath.com> http://srath.com < <http://srath.com/>
        > >> http://srath.com/> , +91-11-25717162
        > >> >> * * *
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >> bharateiya <bharateiya@y...> wrote:
        > >> >>
        > >> >> Namaskaar Shree Aruna
        > >> >>
        > >> >> Atmakaraka is a propelling graha towards knowledge of
        oneself.
        > >In
        > >> >> Arudha lagna it disspells the ignorance and the illusion. The
        > >result
        > >> >> is in whenever the associated period starts...the person
        > >> >will have to
        > >> >> come face with a difficult circumstance and way out will show
        > >the
        > >> >> person a great secret about life.
        > >> >>
        > >> >> The person will realize two sides of a coin is actually the
        > >> >same coin.
        > >> >> Such a person will be a great mediator and a diplomat. The
        > >native is
        > >> >> keen on Self Analysis and can recognize slowly and steadily
        > >> >the effect
        > >> >> of Maya within.
        > >> >>
        > >> >> Such a person can a good teacher and can guide others towards
        > >their
        > >> >> learning and solving life's matters.
        > >> >>
        > >> >> I would love to hear other's comments on this very
        interesting
        > >topic.
        > >> >>
        > >> >> Thanks and Regards
        > >> >> Bharat
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >> --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "a_srimantula"
        > >> >> <a_srimantula@y...> wrote:
        > >> >> > Respected Gurus,
        > >> >> >
        > >> >> > In general what are the results of atmakaraka in
        Arudhalagna?
        > >> >> >
        > >> >> >
        > >> >> > Thanking you all
        > >> >> > Aruna Srimantula
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
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        > >> >>
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        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
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