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Houses in Divisional Charts to Pradeep (Re: Miscellaneous Replies for April 23, 2005)

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  • Narasimha P.V.R. Rao
    Namaste, Regarding twins, you are agreeing that the divisions of lagna are important but you are refusing to take houses from divisional lagna. I fail to see
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 24, 2005
      Namaste,
       
      Regarding twins, you are agreeing that the divisions of lagna are important but you are refusing to take houses from divisional lagna. I fail to see how you can explain the differences between twins.
       
      Let us try an example of twins.
       
      (1) 15th September 1970, 1:14 am (TZ: 5:00 west)
      Stillwater, Oklahoma, USA (97 W 03' 29", 36 N 06' 56")
      Moon: 25Aq38, Lagna: 17Ge37
       
      (1) 15th September 1970, 1:29 am (TZ: 5:00 west)
      Stillwater, Oklahoma, USA (97 W 03' 29", 36 N 06' 56")
      Moon: 25Aq39, Lagna: 14Ge20
       
      Saravali gives some general guidelines on physical attributes, facial features and general nature based on hora, drekkana and navamsa. If you use those guidelines, you will not really see the differences between these twins. For example, Saravali says that one born in the 5th navamsa of Gemini has a wide face, large chest, big head, deception, strong shoulders etc. It says that one born in the 6th navamsa of Gemini has sweet looks, talkative nature, uneven forehead, nice body, red lips etc.
       
      Now, how do you explain the glaring difference between these two twins using just the above?
       
      One twin is insane and the other is brilliant and has degrees in engineering and medicine.
       
      If you take houses in divisional charts, you can explain the differences.
       
      BTW, many (though not all) old astrologers who use navamsa take houses in navamsa.
       
      May Jupiter's light shine on us,
      Narasimha
      ----------------------------------------------------------------
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      ----------------------------------------------------------------
       
      > > Pradeep, do you support taking houses in navamsa or
      > > not? Please make that clear.
      >
      > Dear Narasimha ji
      >
      > Thanks a lot for your reply.
      > For me
      navamsha is also a division.
      > Now regarding twins -you are right - lagnas
      navamsha/drekkana etc is
      > very important.But no bhava is needed here as
      well.
      > As i have always said,divisions are for our lagna and planets.Can
      you
      > think any other way of getting divisions.Lagna too has divisions as
      it
      > is having a coordinate or degree.
      > Through divisions we are
      seeing the kshethra,drekkana,navamsha etc of
      > our lagna.
      >
      >
      Let us take Saravali.
      >
      > ''Following are the effects of births in
      the nine Navāńśas in Aries
      > Ascendant: Effects
      of Aries Ascendant, First Navāńśa: The native will
      > have a face, resembling that of a he-goat, with nose and shoulders
      not
      > being very prominent. He will have a fierce voice, ugly appearance
      and
      > narrow eyes. His body will be thin, but free from defects. Effects
      of
      > Aries Ascendant, Second Navāńśa: The
      native will be dark in
      > complexion, will have broad shoulders and long
      arms. small forehead,
      > strong collar bones, sharp sight and prominent
      face and nose. He will
      > be an affable speaker and will possess weak
      legs''.
      >
      > Here Aries ascendant represents our
      Tanubhava(Rashi).First navamsha of
      > Aries is Aries - Thus if our lagna is
      within 3.2 degrees ,then effects
      > are as per first navamsha.Second
      navasmha in Aries is Taurus - Thus if
      > lagna is after 3 degrees 20 mins
      and before 6.40 we take effects as
      > per second navamsha within Aries
      Rashi.
      >
      > On the other hand bhava means - we consider Tanu
      ,dhana,bhagya,labha
      > etc in navamsha.I sincerely wish if people may start
      taking these
      > factors for chart rectification than bhavas.
      >
      > Regds
      > Pradeep
       
    • ennaye
      -Dear Sir, I have been following the messages on this site with a great deal of interest and am glad that someone has taken up the topic of twin horoscopes. It
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 24, 2005
        -Dear Sir,
        I have been following the messages on this site with a great deal of
        interest and am glad that someone has taken up the topic of twin
        horoscopes. It is not easy to predict in twin horoscopes especially
        if the birth time difference is negligible.
        I have here the details of a set of twins with t.o.b difference of
        just one minute:
        d.o.b 17 Nov 2004
        t.o.b 18-40 and 18-41 respectively
        p.o.b Bangalore, India
        the birth was by c-section and that explains the negligible
        difference in birth time.
        In this set of charts I have not been able to find any differences
        in the divisional charts also.
        Looks wise they are very different and even display differences in
        nature.
        Could there be any different methods of judging twin horoscopes?

        Regards,
        ennaye
        -- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao"
        <pvr@c...> wrote:
        > Namaste,
        >
        > Regarding twins, you are agreeing that the divisions of lagna are
        important but you are refusing to take houses from divisional lagna.
        I fail to see how you can explain the differences between twins.
        >
        > Let us try an example of twins.
        >
        > (1) 15th September 1970, 1:14 am (TZ: 5:00 west)
        > Stillwater, Oklahoma, USA (97 W 03' 29", 36 N 06' 56")
        > Moon: 25Aq38, Lagna: 17Ge37
        >
        > (1) 15th September 1970, 1:29 am (TZ: 5:00 west)
        > Stillwater, Oklahoma, USA (97 W 03' 29", 36 N 06' 56")
        > Moon: 25Aq39, Lagna: 14Ge20
        >
        > Saravali gives some general guidelines on physical attributes,
        facial features and general nature based on hora, drekkana and
        navamsa. If you use those guidelines, you will not really see the
        differences between these twins. For example, Saravali says that one
        born in the 5th navamsa of Gemini has a wide face, large chest, big
        head, deception, strong shoulders etc. It says that one born in the
        6th navamsa of Gemini has sweet looks, talkative nature, uneven
        forehead, nice body, red lips etc.
        >
        > Now, how do you explain the glaring difference between these two
        twins using just the above?
        >
        > One twin is insane and the other is brilliant and has degrees in
        engineering and medicine.
        >
        > If you take houses in divisional charts, you can explain the
        differences.
        >
        > BTW, many (though not all) old astrologers who use navamsa take
        houses in navamsa.
        >
        > May Jupiter's light shine on us,
        > Narasimha
        > ----------------------------------------------------------------
        > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net
        > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
        > SJC website: http://www.SriJagannath.org
        > ----------------------------------------------------------------
        >
        > > > Pradeep, do you support taking houses in navamsa or
        > > > not? Please make that clear.
        > >
        > > Dear Narasimha ji
        > >
        > > Thanks a lot for your reply.
        > > For me navamsha is also a division.
        > > Now regarding twins -you are right - lagnas navamsha/drekkana
        etc is
        > > very important.But no bhava is needed here as well.
        > > As i have always said,divisions are for our lagna and
        planets.Can you
        > > think any other way of getting divisions.Lagna too has divisions
        as it
        > > is having a coordinate or degree.
        > > Through divisions we are seeing the kshethra,drekkana,navamsha
        etc of
        > > our lagna.
        > >
        > > Let us take Saravali.
        > >
        > > ''Following are the effects of births in the nine
        Navāńśas in Aries
        > > Ascendant: Effects of Aries Ascendant, First
        Navāńśa: The native will
        > > have a face, resembling that of a he-goat, with nose and
        shoulders not
        > > being very prominent. He will have a fierce voice, ugly
        appearance and
        > > narrow eyes. His body will be thin, but free from defects.
        Effects of
        > > Aries Ascendant, Second Navāńśa: The native will
        be dark in
        > > complexion, will have broad shoulders and long arms. small
        forehead,
        > > strong collar bones, sharp sight and prominent face and nose. He
        will
        > > be an affable speaker and will possess weak legs''.
        > >
        > > Here Aries ascendant represents our Tanubhava(Rashi).First
        navamsha of
        > > Aries is Aries - Thus if our lagna is within 3.2 degrees ,then
        effects
        > > are as per first navamsha.Second navasmha in Aries is Taurus -
        Thus if
        > > lagna is after 3 degrees 20 mins and before 6.40 we take effects
        as
        > > per second navamsha within Aries Rashi.
        > >
        > > On the other hand bhava means - we consider
        Tanu ,dhana,bhagya,labha
        > > etc in navamsha.I sincerely wish if people may start taking these
        > > factors for chart rectification than bhavas.
        > >
        > > Regds
        > > Pradeep
      • vijayadas_pradeep
        Dear Narasimha ji I am not agreeing to lagnas navamsha and features just for the case of twins.It is applicable for any jataka and has been my view always.
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 25, 2005
          Dear Narasimha ji

          I am not agreeing to lagnas navamsha and features just for the case
          of twins.It is applicable for any jataka and has been my view always.

          Ourselves getting satisfied with analysis cannot be a logical
          conclusion or assertion.In the case of Pope we have seen this.If you
          agree with this, fine.Else please read the following.

          Thanks for the data.But for twins - The chart given by ennaye
          proves your claim insufficient.When taken through Ceasaran section,
          even shastiamshas can be the same.

          Also when children are born for different parents(quoting
          Jagannathan ji) in the same hospital - the story is no different.In
          this case Parent's Karma is the clue.Now nadiamshas can also be
          helpful. Thus the riddle of twin is just one among the numerous ones
          which is difficult to solve.This does not mean we can deform basics.

          Of course the explanations in Saravali are general and cannot be
          taken verbatim.But so is the case with any other astrological
          shloka - one has to account for modifications.

          But this is an excellent proof that within a rashi, various points
          carry different meanings.These are not mappings.A planet has got
          full control over kshethra - but this kshethra is again divided and
          roles are given based on the type of division.Hence lordship for the
          first navamsha within in Aries Rashi is given to Mars himself, while
          the last one is
          given to Guru.Vargottama can be better understood if we study this
          aspect carefully.When my Lagna or any other Bhava lord falls in a
          division ruled by its dispositor - it is vargottama - it is under
          the area controlled by the same planet at navamsha as well as
          kshethra level.In shastyamsha - we are checking our planet/lagnas
          influence closely(within half a degree) - Hence more vimshopaka bala.

          I do not want to repeat the points again.You may kindly read the 3
          messages(as addressed to shri Saurav) i have posted and answer my
          doubts.You may choose from - a)logically prove me wrong b) agree
          that the new theory (bhavas in vargamshas - not advised by Parashra)
          is only an assumption c)inspite of valid points - you are not going
          to agree d)ignore me.

          Whatever be the answer ,i am happy.I am requesting this as you are
          logically answering my doubts and doing a constructive debate.

          Thanks
          Pradeep


          --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao"
          <pvr@c...> wrote:
          > Namaste,
          >
          > Regarding twins, you are agreeing that the divisions of lagna are
          important but you are refusing to take houses from divisional lagna.
          I fail to see how you can explain the differences between twins.
          >
          > Let us try an example of twins.
          >
          > (1) 15th September 1970, 1:14 am (TZ: 5:00 west)
          > Stillwater, Oklahoma, USA (97 W 03' 29", 36 N 06' 56")
          > Moon: 25Aq38, Lagna: 17Ge37
          >
          > (1) 15th September 1970, 1:29 am (TZ: 5:00 west)
          > Stillwater, Oklahoma, USA (97 W 03' 29", 36 N 06' 56")
          > Moon: 25Aq39, Lagna: 14Ge20
          >
          > Saravali gives some general guidelines on physical attributes,
          facial features and general nature based on hora, drekkana and
          navamsa. If you use those guidelines, you will not really see the
          differences between these twins. For example, Saravali says that one
          born in the 5th navamsa of Gemini has a wide face, large chest, big
          head, deception, strong shoulders etc. It says that one born in the
          6th navamsa of Gemini has sweet looks, talkative nature, uneven
          forehead, nice body, red lips etc.
          >
          > Now, how do you explain the glaring difference between these two
          twins using just the above?
          >
          > One twin is insane and the other is brilliant and has degrees in
          engineering and medicine.
          >
          > If you take houses in divisional charts, you can explain the
          differences.
          >
          > BTW, many (though not all) old astrologers who use navamsa take
          houses in navamsa.
          >
          > May Jupiter's light shine on us,
          > Narasimha
          > ----------------------------------------------------------------
          > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net
          > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
          > SJC website: http://www.SriJagannath.org
          > ----------------------------------------------------------------
          >
          > > > Pradeep, do you support taking houses in navamsa or
          > > > not? Please make that clear.
          > >
          > > Dear Narasimha ji
          > >
          > > Thanks a lot for your reply.
          > > For me navamsha is also a division.
          > > Now regarding twins -you are right - lagnas navamsha/drekkana
          etc is
          > > very important.But no bhava is needed here as well.
          > > As i have always said,divisions are for our lagna and
          planets.Can you
          > > think any other way of getting divisions.Lagna too has divisions
          as it
          > > is having a coordinate or degree.
          > > Through divisions we are seeing the kshethra,drekkana,navamsha
          etc of
          > > our lagna.
          > >
          > > Let us take Saravali.
          > >
          > > ''Following are the effects of births in the nine
          Navāńśas in Aries
          > > Ascendant: Effects of Aries Ascendant, First
          Navāńśa: The native will
          > > have a face, resembling that of a he-goat, with nose and
          shoulders not
          > > being very prominent. He will have a fierce voice, ugly
          appearance and
          > > narrow eyes. His body will be thin, but free from defects.
          Effects of
          > > Aries Ascendant, Second Navāńśa: The native will
          be dark in
          > > complexion, will have broad shoulders and long arms. small
          forehead,
          > > strong collar bones, sharp sight and prominent face and nose. He
          will
          > > be an affable speaker and will possess weak legs''.
          > >
          > > Here Aries ascendant represents our Tanubhava(Rashi).First
          navamsha of
          > > Aries is Aries - Thus if our lagna is within 3.2 degrees ,then
          effects
          > > are as per first navamsha.Second navasmha in Aries is Taurus -
          Thus if
          > > lagna is after 3 degrees 20 mins and before 6.40 we take effects
          as
          > > per second navamsha within Aries Rashi.
          > >
          > > On the other hand bhava means - we consider
          Tanu ,dhana,bhagya,labha
          > > etc in navamsha.I sincerely wish if people may start taking these
          > > factors for chart rectification than bhavas.
          > >
          > > Regds
          > > Pradeep
        • vvootla
          ** aum namo bhagavate vasudevaya ** Namaste Pradeep ji, I had been following this debate of what constitutes a varga, varga chart and its interpretation and
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 25, 2005
            ** aum namo bhagavate vasudevaya **

            Namaste Pradeep ji,
            I had been following this debate of what constitutes a varga,
            varga chart and its interpretation and use for the astrological
            predictive purposes. I'm yet a novice and am genuinely interested in
            knowing the arguments on all sides. However, while I did understand
            Shri Narasimha's take on this, I'm yet to understand yours. I'm not
            sure if my basics aren't enough for this or your explanations are not
            very clear. I'm really trying to appreciate your view point or any
            other point on the vargas. In this regards may I ask you to explain
            to me from basics or first-principles as they call it. Some of the
            questions, I'm looking for clarity are
            1) What is your definition of a varga? What do you mean by vargas are
            not charts?
            2) What is 'division of lagna' as opposed to 'division of house'?
            3) Lagna acc to my understanding is the rising sphuta, how can it
            have further divisions? Do you mean the house of lagna is divided? If
            so, isn't this division of a house?
            4) Also, does your argument that Vargas are divisions of lagna mean
            that we are only concerned with the signs where lagna falls in the
            various vargas and not anything else from those charts? i.e planets
            in other signs of the varga, the houses etc.
            5) According to your school of thought, what is the way in which
            vargas need to be used, if at all, in the astrological
            reading/prediction.
            6) Are you implying that Navamsa is an exception to other vargas if
            so in what ways? Besides Rasi and Navamsa, what are the other vargas
            that needed to be looked into and for what specific aspects of native
            do we need to look at those?
            7) If possible, can you take an example of a native's chart and any
            one area say career or marriage or progeny and go though the steps
            involved in reading his Rasi, Navamsa or any other vargas you may
            want to use or not use and explain that area of the native. I'm not
            looking at the predicitive ability yet.. so you can use the chart of
            a known native for making me understand your point of view.

            I'm currently not affiliated to any group and I'm posting this coz
            after many posts on this debate, I'm yet so confused on your take and
            hence a detailed response from you is appreciated.
            thanks and regards
            -Prasad
          • vijayadas_pradeep
            Dear Shri Prasad Kindly address without a ji.Thanks for the valuable questions. There are aadhara and aadheya tattwas.Rashis and its divisions, nakshathras and
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 25, 2005
              Dear Shri Prasad

              Kindly address without a ji.Thanks for the valuable questions.

              There are aadhara and aadheya tattwas.Rashis and its divisions,
              nakshathras and Grahas are the adhara tattwas.
              Rashis are the 12 signs from Aries to Pisces.Adharas are
              constant.Rashis and nakshathras are permenantly adahhara while grahas
              are Gochara based .

              Now bhavas or houses are Aadheya tattwas.Adheya is like
              variables.Bhavas are twelve bhavas starting from Tanu and ending in Vyaya.

              For example - let us take two individuals with Aries and Taurus
              Asendant.For one individual Aries becomes Tanu bhava while Taurus for
              the other.

              On the other hand irrespective of what bhava it represent, Rashis have
              their own properties.It is constant.
              This is the basic we have to understand - Bhavas and Rashis ,though
              are having similar borders and boundaries, convey different meanings.
              You have asked me division of houses and division of signs.Houses
              don't have divisions.Rashis or signs do have.
              Let me make it clear -It is not my school of thought ,but the thought
              of Parashara.

              Divisions of Rashis are Kshethra ,Hora
              ,Drekkana,Chathurthamsha,navamsha etc.Varga as i understand is a group
              - shadvarga - dashavarga - shodasha varga etc.They are grouping of
              divisions.

              Now 12 bhavas can explain every aspect of an individuals life .Each of
              these 12 bhavas represent numerous things.
              One should not mix these bhavas of a Jataka with Rashis or divisions
              as it is a common factor for the Jataka.

              You had asked me about division of Lagna - Lagna as you have said has
              a degree.

              Let us take an example - Lagna of A is placed in 3 degrees of Aries.
              Each signs has got divisions- so does Aries.

              Kshethra - Kuja Kshethra,Mesha Rashi.
              Hora - As it is in the first half of odd sign - Surya Hora
              Navamsha - Aries navamsha ,Aries Rashi

              Now take B - Lagna placed in 3 degrees of Taurus.


              Kshethra - Shukra ksethra,Vrishabha Rashi
              Hora - Chandra
              Nvamsha - Makara navamsha,Vrishabha Rashi

              If you note them carefully - You will understand that two diffrent
              signs Aries and Taurus represent the same Tanu Bhava.But the rashis
              have difference in division.
              The first 3degrees 20 minutes of Aries has been given to Mars while
              Shani is the lord for the same in Taurus.
              Thus each sign has divisions which are constant.Based on the degree of
              planets and Lagna we find their individual divisions.

              I hope you have understood what i mean by division of Lagna and
              planets and also the difference between Bhava and Rashi.


              To analyse bhavas,one has to see the the placement of bhava lords in
              various divisions of a Rashi.Navamsha too is a division.
              After seeing 7th house and its lord one can see its position in
              navamsha when thinking of spouse.
              Also Navamsha position can be checked for any bhava lord or
              lagna.There may be numerous ways to use divisions - but we are not
              aware of all of them at the moment.
              If it is clear for you - during another occassion we can discuss a
              chart.Also pls read the 3 mails which i had sent ,3 days back.

              Thanks
              Pradeep






              --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "vvootla" <vvootla@g...> wrote:
              >
              > ** aum namo bhagavate vasudevaya **
              >
              > Namaste Pradeep ji,
              > I had been following this debate of what constitutes a varga,
              > varga chart and its interpretation and use for the astrological
              > predictive purposes. I'm yet a novice and am genuinely interested in
              > knowing the arguments on all sides. However, while I did understand
              > Shri Narasimha's take on this, I'm yet to understand yours. I'm not
              > sure if my basics aren't enough for this or your explanations are not
              > very clear. I'm really trying to appreciate your view point or any
              > other point on the vargas. In this regards may I ask you to explain
              > to me from basics or first-principles as they call it. Some of the
              > questions, I'm looking for clarity are
              > 1) What is your definition of a varga? What do you mean by vargas are
              > not charts?
              > 2) What is 'division of lagna' as opposed to 'division of house'?
              > 3) Lagna acc to my understanding is the rising sphuta, how can it
              > have further divisions? Do you mean the house of lagna is divided? If
              > so, isn't this division of a house?
              > 4) Also, does your argument that Vargas are divisions of lagna mean
              > that we are only concerned with the signs where lagna falls in the
              > various vargas and not anything else from those charts? i.e planets
              > in other signs of the varga, the houses etc.
              > 5) According to your school of thought, what is the way in which
              > vargas need to be used, if at all, in the astrological
              > reading/prediction.
              > 6) Are you implying that Navamsa is an exception to other vargas if
              > so in what ways? Besides Rasi and Navamsa, what are the other vargas
              > that needed to be looked into and for what specific aspects of native
              > do we need to look at those?
              > 7) If possible, can you take an example of a native's chart and any
              > one area say career or marriage or progeny and go though the steps
              > involved in reading his Rasi, Navamsa or any other vargas you may
              > want to use or not use and explain that area of the native. I'm not
              > looking at the predicitive ability yet.. so you can use the chart of
              > a known native for making me understand your point of view.
              >
              > I'm currently not affiliated to any group and I'm posting this coz
              > after many posts on this debate, I'm yet so confused on your take and
              > hence a detailed response from you is appreciated.
              > thanks and regards
              > -Prasad
            • Prakash Kandpal
              Dear Sirs, I saw some connection to the twin births in the charts of the natives from USA (provided by Shri Narasimha ji) & also the following: 1. The
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 25, 2005
                Dear Sirs,

                I saw some connection to the twin births in the charts of the
                natives from USA (provided by Shri Narasimha ji) & also the
                following:

                1. The bhartrikaraka is connected to Rahu in both the charts - In
                one Rahu (bhartrikaraka) occupies Ashwini star (resembling twins) in
                Aries aspected by Mars

                2. The bhartrikaraka in the other chart is Moon and occupies 9th
                house with Rahu in the dual sign Aquarius (exchange of houses
                between Moon & Saturn)

                If the members can help with respect to birth details of twins that
                will be great to come out with more details and facts with respect
                to their nature and births.

                Look forward to your kind help.

                Best regards,
                Prakash Kandpal

                --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "ennaye" <ennaye@y...> wrote:
                >
                > -Dear Sir,
                > I have been following the messages on this site with a great deal
                of
                > interest and am glad that someone has taken up the topic of twin
                > horoscopes. It is not easy to predict in twin horoscopes
                especially
                > if the birth time difference is negligible.
                > I have here the details of a set of twins with t.o.b difference of
                > just one minute:
                > d.o.b 17 Nov 2004
                > t.o.b 18-40 and 18-41 respectively
                > p.o.b Bangalore, India
                > the birth was by c-section and that explains the negligible
                > difference in birth time.
                > In this set of charts I have not been able to find any differences
                > in the divisional charts also.
                > Looks wise they are very different and even display differences in
                > nature.
                > Could there be any different methods of judging twin horoscopes?
                >
                > Regards,
                > ennaye
                > -- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao"
                > <pvr@c...> wrote:
                > > Namaste,
                > >
                > > Regarding twins, you are agreeing that the divisions of lagna
                are
                > important but you are refusing to take houses from divisional
                lagna.
                > I fail to see how you can explain the differences between twins.
                > >
                > > Let us try an example of twins.
                > >
                > > (1) 15th September 1970, 1:14 am (TZ: 5:00 west)
                > > Stillwater, Oklahoma, USA (97 W 03' 29", 36 N 06' 56")
                > > Moon: 25Aq38, Lagna: 17Ge37
                > >
                > > (1) 15th September 1970, 1:29 am (TZ: 5:00 west)
                > > Stillwater, Oklahoma, USA (97 W 03' 29", 36 N 06' 56")
                > > Moon: 25Aq39, Lagna: 14Ge20
                > >
                > > Saravali gives some general guidelines on physical attributes,
                > facial features and general nature based on hora, drekkana and
                > navamsa. If you use those guidelines, you will not really see the
                > differences between these twins. For example, Saravali says that
                one
                > born in the 5th navamsa of Gemini has a wide face, large chest,
                big
                > head, deception, strong shoulders etc. It says that one born in
                the
                > 6th navamsa of Gemini has sweet looks, talkative nature, uneven
                > forehead, nice body, red lips etc.
                > >
                > > Now, how do you explain the glaring difference between these two
                > twins using just the above?
                > >
                > > One twin is insane and the other is brilliant and has degrees in
                > engineering and medicine.
                > >
                > > If you take houses in divisional charts, you can explain the
                > differences.
                > >
                > > BTW, many (though not all) old astrologers who use navamsa take
                > houses in navamsa.
                > >
                > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,
                > > Narasimha
                > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
                > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net
                > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
                > > SJC website: http://www.SriJagannath.org
                > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
                > >
                > > > > Pradeep, do you support taking houses in navamsa or
                > > > > not? Please make that clear.
                > > >
                > > > Dear Narasimha ji
                > > >
                > > > Thanks a lot for your reply.
                > > > For me navamsha is also a division.
                > > > Now regarding twins -you are right - lagnas navamsha/drekkana
                > etc is
                > > > very important.But no bhava is needed here as well.
                > > > As i have always said,divisions are for our lagna and
                > planets.Can you
                > > > think any other way of getting divisions.Lagna too has
                divisions
                > as it
                > > > is having a coordinate or degree.
                > > > Through divisions we are seeing the kshethra,drekkana,navamsha
                > etc of
                > > > our lagna.
                > > >
                > > > Let us take Saravali.
                > > >
                > > > ''Following are the effects of births in the nine
                > Navāńśas in Aries
                > > > Ascendant: Effects of Aries Ascendant, First
                > Navāńśa: The native will
                > > > have a face, resembling that of a he-goat, with nose and
                > shoulders not
                > > > being very prominent. He will have a fierce voice, ugly
                > appearance and
                > > > narrow eyes. His body will be thin, but free from defects.
                > Effects of
                > > > Aries Ascendant, Second Navāńśa: The native
                will
                > be dark in
                > > > complexion, will have broad shoulders and long arms. small
                > forehead,
                > > > strong collar bones, sharp sight and prominent face and nose.
                He
                > will
                > > > be an affable speaker and will possess weak legs''.
                > > >
                > > > Here Aries ascendant represents our Tanubhava(Rashi).First
                > navamsha of
                > > > Aries is Aries - Thus if our lagna is within 3.2 degrees ,then
                > effects
                > > > are as per first navamsha.Second navasmha in Aries is Taurus -
                > Thus if
                > > > lagna is after 3 degrees 20 mins and before 6.40 we take
                effects
                > as
                > > > per second navamsha within Aries Rashi.
                > > >
                > > > On the other hand bhava means - we consider
                > Tanu ,dhana,bhagya,labha
                > > > etc in navamsha.I sincerely wish if people may start taking
                these
                > > > factors for chart rectification than bhavas.
                > > >
                > > > Regds
                > > > Pradeep
              • sridhar k
                As per KP system, the Sign/star/sub/subsub Lords of the Twins are 18.40 Birth Asc Ven/Moon/Jup/Moon 18.41 Birth Ven/moon/jup/RAHU the sub-sub
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 26, 2005
                  As per KP system, the Sign/star/sub/subsub Lords of the Twins are
                   
                  18.40  Birth  Asc  Ven/Moon/Jup/Moon
                  18.41  Birth          Ven/moon/jup/RAHU
                   
                  the sub-sub changes. Similar differences in the other Houses.  They will have almost
                   
                  identical lives, same profession, marry on smae date... etc.

                  ennaye <ennaye@...> wrote:

                  -Dear Sir,
                  I have been following the messages on this site with a great deal of
                  interest and am glad that someone has taken up the topic of twin
                  horoscopes. It is not easy to predict in twin horoscopes especially
                  if the birth time difference is negligible.
                  I have here the details of a set of twins with t.o.b difference of
                  just one minute:
                  d.o.b 17 Nov 2004
                  t.o.b 18-40 and 18-41 respectively
                  p.o.b Bangalore, India
                  the birth was by c-section and that explains the negligible
                  difference in birth time.
                  In this set of charts I have not been able to find any differences
                  in the divisional charts also.
                  Looks wise they are very different and even display differences in
                  nature.
                  Could there be any different methods of judging twin horoscopes?

                  Regards,
                  ennaye
                  -- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao"
                  <pvr@c...> wrote:
                  > Namaste,

                  > Regarding twins, you are agreeing that the divisions of lagna are
                  important but you are refusing to take houses from divisional lagna.
                  I fail to see how you can explain the differences between twins.

                  > Let us try an example of twins.

                  > (1) 15th September 1970, 1:14 am (TZ: 5:00 west)
                  > Stillwater, Oklahoma, USA (97 W 03' 29", 36 N 06' 56")
                  > Moon: 25Aq38, Lagna: 17Ge37

                  > (1) 15th September 1970, 1:29 am (TZ: 5:00 west)
                  > Stillwater, Oklahoma, USA (97 W 03' 29", 36 N 06' 56")
                  > Moon: 25Aq39, Lagna: 14Ge20

                  > Saravali gives some general guidelines on physical attributes,
                  facial features and general nature based on hora, drekkana and
                  navamsa. If you use those guidelines, you will not really see the
                  differences between these twins. For example, Saravali says that one
                  born in the 5th navamsa of Gemini has a wide face, large chest, big
                  head, deception, strong shoulders etc. It says that one born in the
                  6th navamsa of Gemini has sweet looks, talkative nature, uneven
                  forehead, nice body, red lips etc.

                  > Now, how do you explain the glaring difference between these two
                  twins using just the above?

                  > One twin is insane and the other is brilliant and has degrees in
                  engineering and medicine.

                  > If you take houses in divisional charts, you can explain the
                  differences.

                  > BTW, many (though not all) old astrologers who use navamsa take
                  houses in navamsa.

                  > May Jupiter's light shine on us,
                  > Narasimha
                  > ----------------------------------------------------------------
                  > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net
                  > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
                  > SJC website: http://www.SriJagannath.org
                  > ----------------------------------------------------------------

                  > > > Pradeep, do you support taking houses in navamsa or
                  > > > not? Please make that clear.
                  > >
                  > > Dear Narasimha ji
                  > >
                  > > Thanks a lot for your reply.
                  > > For me navamsha is also a division.
                  > > Now regarding twins -you are right - lagnas navamsha/drekkana
                  etc is
                  > > very important.But no bhava is needed here as well.
                  > > As i have always said,divisions are for our lagna and
                  planets.Can you
                  > > think any other way of getting divisions.Lagna too has divisions
                  as it
                  > > is having a coordinate or degree.
                  > > Through divisions we are seeing the kshethra,drekkana,navamsha
                  etc of
                  > > our lagna.
                  > >
                  > > Let us take Saravali.
                  > >
                  > > ''Following are the effects of births in the nine
                  Nav&#257;&#324;&#347;as in Aries
                  > > Ascendant: Effects of Aries Ascendant, First
                  Nav&#257;&#324;&#347;a: The native will
                  > > have a face, resembling that of a he-goat, with nose and
                  shoulders not
                  > > being very prominent. He will have a fierce voice, ugly
                  appearance and
                  > > narrow eyes. His body will be thin, but free from defects.
                  Effects of
                  > > Aries Ascendant, Second Nav&#257;&#324;&#347;a: The native will
                  be dark in
                  > > complexion, will have broad shoulders and long arms. small
                  forehead,
                  > > strong collar bones, sharp sight and prominent face and nose. He
                  will
                  > > be an affable speaker and will possess weak legs''.
                  > >
                  > > Here Aries ascendant represents our Tanubhava(Rashi).First
                  navamsha of
                  > > Aries is Aries - Thus if our lagna is within 3.2 degrees ,then
                  effects
                  > > are as per first navamsha.Second navasmha in Aries is Taurus -
                  Thus if
                  > > lagna is after 3 degrees 20 mins and before 6.40 we take effects
                  as
                  > > per second navamsha within Aries Rashi.
                  > >
                  > > On the other hand bhava means - we consider
                  Tanu ,dhana,bhagya,labha
                  > > etc in navamsha.I sincerely wish if people may start taking these
                  > > factors for chart rectification than bhavas.
                  > >
                  > > Regds
                  > > Pradeep





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                • sridhar k
                  Dear Narasimha ji As per the KP system the Asc. Lords of Sign/star/sub/subsub are as below 1.14 time Mer/Rah/Mer/Sat 1.29 time Mer/Rah/Sun/Rahu Mer is
                  Message 8 of 10 , Apr 26, 2005
                    Dear Narasimha ji
                     
                    As per the KP system the Asc. Lords of Sign/star/sub/subsub are as below
                     
                    1.14 time   Mer/Rah/Mer/Sat
                     
                    1.29 time  Mer/Rah/Sun/Rahu
                     
                    Mer is Retro. A good KP astrolger can explain the Differences.
                     
                    I am not good. But I feel the Twin Born @ 1.14 should be the Highly qualified man.

                    "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@...> wrote:
                    Namaste,
                     
                    Regarding twins, you are agreeing that the divisions of lagna are important but you are refusing to take houses from divisional lagna. I fail to see how you can explain the differences between twins.
                     
                    Let us try an example of twins.
                     
                    (1) 15th September 1970, 1:14 am (TZ: 5:00 west)
                    Stillwater, Oklahoma, USA (97 W 03' 29", 36 N 06' 56")
                    Moon: 25Aq38, Lagna: 17Ge37
                     
                    (1) 15th September 1970, 1:29 am (TZ: 5:00 west)
                    Stillwater, Oklahoma, USA (97 W 03' 29", 36 N 06' 56")
                    Moon: 25Aq39, Lagna: 14Ge20
                     
                    Saravali gives some general guidelines on physical attributes, facial features and general nature based on hora, drekkana and navamsa. If you use those guidelines, you will not really see the differences between these twins. For example, Saravali says that one born in the 5th navamsa of Gemini has a wide face, large chest, big head, deception, strong shoulders etc. It says that one born in the 6th navamsa of Gemini has sweet looks, talkative nature, uneven forehead, nice body, red lips etc.
                     
                    Now, how do you explain the glaring difference between these two twins using just the above?
                     
                    One twin is insane and the other is brilliant and has degrees in engineering and medicine.
                     
                    If you take houses in divisional charts, you can explain the differences.
                     
                    BTW, many (though not all) old astrologers who use navamsa take houses in navamsa.
                     
                    May Jupiter's light shine on us,
                    Narasimha
                    ----------------------------------------------------------------
                    Free Jyotish lessons (MP3):
                    http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net
                    Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
                    SJC website: http://www.SriJagannath.org
                    ----------------------------------------------------------------
                     
                    > > Pradeep, do you support taking houses in navamsa or
                    > > not? Please make that clear.
                    >
                    > Dear Narasimha ji
                    >
                    > Thanks a lot for your reply.
                    > For me navamsha is also a division.
                    > Now regarding twins -you are right - lagnas navamsha/drekkana etc is
                    > very important.But no bhava is needed here as well.
                    > As i have always said,divisions are for our lagna and planets.Can you
                    > think any other way of getting divisions.Lagna too has divisions as it
                    > is having a coordinate or degree.
                    > Through divisions we are seeing the kshethra,drekkana,navamsha etc of
                    > our lagna.
                    >
                    > Let us take Saravali.
                    >
                    > ''Following are the effects of births in the nine Nav&#257;&#324;&#347;as in Aries
                    > Ascendant: Effects of Aries Ascendant, First Nav&#257;&#324;&#347;a: The native will
                    > have a face, resembling that of a he-goat, with nose and shoulders not
                    > being very prominent. He will have a fierce voice, ugly appearance and
                    > narrow eyes. His body will be thin, but free from defects. Effects of
                    > Aries Ascendant, Second Nav&#257;&#324;&#347;a: The native will be dark in
                    > complexion, will have broad shoulders and long arms. small forehead,
                    > strong collar bones, sharp sight and prominent face and nose. He will
                    > be an affable speaker and will possess weak legs''.
                    >
                    > Here Aries ascendant represents our Tanubhava(Rashi).First navamsha of
                    > Aries is Aries - Thus if our lagna is within 3.2 degrees ,then effects
                    > are as per first navamsha.Second navasmha in Aries is Taurus - Thus if
                    > lagna is after 3 degrees 20 mins and before 6.40 we take effects as
                    > per second navamsha within Aries Rashi.
                    >
                    > On the other hand bhava means - we consider Tanu ,dhana,bhagya,labha
                    > etc in navamsha.I sincerely wish if people may start taking these
                    > factors for chart rectification than bhavas.
                    >
                    > Regds
                    > Pradeep
                     


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                  • Sri Ramachandra Murthy Tanikella
                    dear sirs.. i have been following the discussion of twin births. i would like to give some details of triplets( three children at once all are girls ). But
                    Message 9 of 10 , Apr 26, 2005
                      dear sirs..
                           i have been following the discussion of twin births. i
                      would like to give some details of triplets( three children at once all
                      are girls ). But they are not alike in looks. one can easyly
                      differentiate between them and their behaviour is also different to each
                      other. DOB: Nov 21st, 2001 TOb: 05:46, 05:47, 05:48 (early
                      morning) Place: Chennai, Tamil Nadu, India. Quoting
                      prakashkandpal@...:
                      >

                      Dear
                      Sirs,

                      I saw some
                      connection to the twin births in the charts of the
                      natives from
                      USA (provided by Shri Narasimha ji) & also the

                      following:

                      1.� The bhartrikaraka is connected to
                      Rahu in both the charts - In
                      one Rahu (bhartrikaraka) occupies
                      Ashwini star (resembling twins) in
                      Aries aspected by
                      Mars

                      2.� The bhartrikaraka in the other chart is Moon
                      and occupies 9th
                      house with Rahu in the dual sign Aquarius
                      (exchange of houses
                      between Moon & Saturn)

                      If the
                      members can help with respect to birth details of twins that
                      will
                      be great to come out with more details and facts with respect
                      to
                      their nature and births.

                      Look forward to your kind
                      help.

                      Best regards,
                      Prakash Kandpal

                      --- In
                      vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "ennaye"
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > -Dear Sir,
                      > I have been following
                      the messages on this site with a great deal
                      of
                      > interest
                      and am glad that someone has taken up the topic of twin
                      >
                      horoscopes. It is not easy to predict in twin horoscopes

                      especially
                      > if the birth time difference is
                      negligible.
                      > I have here the details of a set of twins with
                      t.o.b difference of
                      > just one minute:
                      > d.o.b 17 Nov
                      2004
                      > t.o.b 18-40 and 18-41 respectively
                      > p.o.b
                      Bangalore, India
                      > the birth was by c-section and that explains
                      the negligible
                      > difference in birth time.
                      > In this
                      set of charts I have not been able to find any differences
                      > in
                      the divisional charts also.
                      > Looks wise they are very different
                      and even display differences in
                      > nature.
                      > Could there
                      be any different methods of judging twin horoscopes?
                      >

                      > Regards,
                      > ennaye
                      > -- In
                      vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao"

                      > wrote:
                      > > Namaste,
                      >
                      >�
                      > > Regarding twins, you are agreeing that the
                      divisions of lagna
                      are
                      > important but you are refusing
                      to take houses from divisional
                      lagna.
                      > I fail to see how
                      you can explain the differences between twins.
                      > >�

                      > > Let us try an example of twins.
                      > >�

                      > > (1) 15th September 1970, 1:14 am (TZ: 5:00
                      west)
                      > > Stillwater, Oklahoma, USA (97 W 03' 29", 36 N
                      06' 56")
                      > > Moon: 25Aq38, Lagna: 17Ge37
                      >
                      >�
                      > > (1) 15th September 1970, 1:29 am (TZ: 5:00
                      west)
                      > > Stillwater, Oklahoma, USA (97 W 03' 29", 36 N
                      06' 56")
                      > > Moon: 25Aq39, Lagna: 14Ge20
                      >
                      >�
                      > > Saravali gives some general guidelines on
                      physical attributes,
                      > facial features and general nature based
                      on hora, drekkana and
                      > navamsa. If you use those guidelines,
                      you will not really see the
                      > differences between these twins.
                      For example, Saravali says that
                      one
                      > born in the 5th
                      navamsa of Gemini has a wide face, large chest,
                      big
                      >
                      head, deception, strong shoulders etc. It says that one born in

                      the
                      > 6th navamsa of Gemini has sweet looks, talkative
                      nature, uneven
                      > forehead, nice body, red lips etc.
                      >
                      >�
                      > > Now, how do you explain the glaring
                      difference between these two
                      > twins using just the
                      above?
                      > >�
                      > > One twin is insane and the
                      other is brilliant and has degrees in
                      > engineering and
                      medicine.
                      > >�
                      > > If you take houses in
                      divisional charts, you can explain the
                      > differences.
                      >
                      >�
                      > > BTW, many (though not all) old astrologers
                      who use navamsa take
                      > houses in navamsa.
                      > >�

                      > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,
                      > >
                      Narasimha
                      > >
                      ----------------------------------------------------------------
                      &g
                      t; > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3):
                      href="http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net">http://vedicastro.home.comcast
                      .net
                      > > Free Jyotish software (Windows):
                      href="http://www.VedicAstrologer.org">http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

                      > > SJC website:
                      href="http://www.SriJagannath.org">http://www.SriJagannath.org

                      > >
                      ----------------------------------------------------------------
                      &g
                      t; >�
                      > > > > Pradeep, do you support taking
                      houses in navamsa or
                      > > > > not? Please make that
                      clear.
                      > > >
                      > > > Dear Narasimha
                      ji
                      > > >
                      > > > Thanks a lot for your
                      reply.
                      > > > For me navamsha is also a division.
                      >
                      > > Now regarding twins -you are right - lagnas navamsha/drekkana

                      > etc is
                      > > > very important.But no bhava is
                      needed here as well.
                      > > > As i have always said,divisions
                      are for our lagna and
                      > planets.Can you
                      > > >
                      think any other way of getting divisions.Lagna too has
                      divisions

                      > as it
                      > > > is having a coordinate or
                      degree.
                      > > > Through divisions we are seeing the
                      kshethra,drekkana,navamsha
                      > etc of
                      > > > our
                      lagna.
                      > > >
                      > > > Let us take
                      Saravali.
                      > > >
                      > > > ''Following are the
                      effects of births in the nine
                      >
                      Navāńśas in Aries
                      > > >
                      Ascendant: Effects of Aries Ascendant, First
                      >
                      Navāńśa: The native will
                      > > >
                      have a face, resembling that of a he-goat, with nose and
                      >
                      shoulders not
                      > > > being very prominent. He will have a
                      fierce voice, ugly
                      > appearance and
                      > > > narrow
                      eyes. His body will be thin, but free from defects.
                      > Effects
                      of
                      > > > Aries Ascendant, Second
                      Navāńśa: The native
                      will
                      > be
                      dark in
                      > > > complexion, will have broad shoulders and
                      long arms. small
                      > forehead,
                      > > > strong collar
                      bones, sharp sight and prominent face and nose.
                      He
                      >
                      will
                      > > > be an affable speaker and will possess weak
                      legs''.
                      > > >
                      > > > Here Aries ascendant
                      represents our Tanubhava(Rashi).First
                      > navamsha of
                      >
                      > > Aries is Aries - Thus if our lagna is within 3.2 degrees ,then

                      > effects
                      > > > are as per first navamsha.Second
                      navasmha in Aries is Taurus -
                      > Thus if
                      > > >
                      lagna is after 3 degrees 20 mins and before 6.40 we take
                      effects

                      > as
                      > > > per second navamsha within Aries
                      Rashi.
                      > > >
                      > > > On the other hand bhava
                      means - we consider
                      > Tanu ,dhana,bhagya,labha
                      > >
                      > etc in navamsha.I sincerely wish if people may start taking

                      these
                      > > > factors for chart rectification than
                      bhavas.
                      > > >
                      > > > Regds
                      > >
                      > Pradeep





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                    • Dhira Krsna BCS
                      Dear Sriram and jyotishi, ... The last of these 3 will have a different sastiamsa lagna already, and then of course, there are the special lagna s like ghatika
                      Message 10 of 10 , Apr 27, 2005
                        Dear Sriram and jyotishi,

                        >i have been following the discussion of twin births. i would like to give
                        >some details of triplets( three children at once all are girls ). But
                        >they are not alike in looks. one can easyly differentiate between them
                        >and their behaviour is also different to each other.

                        The last of these 3 will have a different sastiamsa lagna already, and
                        then of course, there are the special lagna's like ghatika and vighatika
                        lagna that change some things as well. The different looks are also
                        associated with the fact that vighati graha will be different.

                        Interesting point here is to check the pranapada lagna, which is used for
                        rectification. Some seconds earlier than 5.46 PP is in trines to Navamsa
                        lagna, then the 2nd one has PP conjoined Moon, and the last one has PP in
                        Navamsa lagna.

                        Yours,
                        Dhira Krsna dasa,

                        web site: <http://www.geocities.com/dvdd1008/Jyotisha.html>
                        <http://srijagannath.org/learning>
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