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RE: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION

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  • Sanjay Rath
    Jaya Jagannatha Dear Anand Before doing the calculations for these points les know what they are - they are supposed to be the sons of Saturn, and like this
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 14, 2005
      Jaya Jagannatha
      Dear Anand
      Before doing the calculations for these points les know what they are - they are supposed to be the sons of Saturn, and like this the other planets also have children. In Jyotish children refer to a part or amsa of the parent. So if the parent can have different definitions then the children will also be defined differently and there can be many.
      Now of the time scales, one of them is called a kala and this divides the day into 16 parts - more specifically 8 parts for day and 8 parts for night. Think of the number '8' and the 8th house of transformation, past karma catching up and such things. The children of the planets when they rule such parts will be doig their job related to the 8th house. For example, the son of Saturn called Gulika is responsible for our birth and plays a crucial role in adhana (conception time calculation) as we are born due to our sins (Saturn) and Gulika is the poison we must consume in this life as a burning for our sins.
      The rest you can get from standard texts.
      With best wishes and warm regards,
      Sanjay Rath
      * * *
      Sri Jagannath Center®
      15B Gangaram Hospital Road
      New Delhi 110060, India
      http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162
      * * *
       


      From: ankorwok [mailto:ankorwok@...]
      Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 10:42 AM
      To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION


      HI,
      I'm a novice astrologer. Can somebody please tell me how to calculate
      the positions of Mandi And Gulika in a Horoscope. I'm looking for the
      procedure for the calculation.
      Regards,
      Anand






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    • Dhira Krsna BCS
      Dear Sanjay Rath, Hare Rama Krsna! ... The verse in BPHS mentions Mandi for this calculation of adhana. Here you are speaking of Gulika. Do you now accept
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 19, 2005
        Dear Sanjay Rath,

        Hare Rama Krsna!

        >For example, the son of Saturn called Gulika is responsible for our birth
        >and plays a crucial role in adhana (conception time calculation) as we
        >are born due to our sins (Saturn) and Gulika is the poison we must
        >consume in this life as a burning for our sins.

        The verse in BPHS mentions Mandi for this calculation of adhana. Here you
        are speaking of Gulika. Do you now accept Mandi and Gulika to be one and
        the same? If you could tell me a little about the story of Mandi and/or
        Gulika's birth to Shani, that would be very much appreciated. Btw, why is
        Mandi also causing pasyaputra yoga (obtaining a child not one's own) when
        he aspects 5th house or 5th lord being in a sign of Budha or Shani, along
        with Shani? Is that indicating a curse from past life?

        I guess there might be some pasyaputra yoga in my chart as well. And a
        last question: could you change my chart on the guru's webpage to the time
        of 10:51:00 and with my ayanamsa 47:06 less than Lahiri, if it's not asked
        too much?

        Thank you.

        Yours,
        Dhira Krsna dasa,
        Jyotishi
        http://www.radhadesh.com
        http://www.geocities.com/dvdd1008/Jyotisha.html
        http://srijagannath.org/education/dhira_krsna_das.html
      • Sanjay Rath
        Jaya Jagannatha Dear Dhira Krsna I am still having the problem recoinciling Gulika Kala with Gulika and Mandi. If the Kala is to follow Saturn then how can
        Message 3 of 12 , Mar 19, 2005
          Jaya Jagannatha
          Dear Dhira Krsna

          I am still having the problem recoinciling Gulika Kala with Gulika and
          Mandi. If the Kala is to follow Saturn then how can Gulika be in the body
          (time or Kala) of Saturn? If Gulika is different from Gulika Kala then alone
          can it be the beginning of Saturn. Prasna Marga takes Gulika as Mandi (there
          is a confusion of terms over there) as has been recorded by translator Dr B
          V Raman. On the other hand lost horoscopy requires Mandi to be in a kendra
          from navamsa lagna and thus this is used for the purpose. But it is clear
          from the various texts that they are different - one that gives poison to
          the native and the other that shows what poiso he gives to the world.

          Posyaputra yogas have to do more with the eunuch planets not giving
          children. You have a good point there.

          Visti changes the webpages. In fact the srijagannath.org site is being
          revamped and you will soon have some webspace for not only the primary page
          but also to upload lessons etc that you wish.

          It is stated that Mandi and Gulika were like two spots that have been
          spotted once by astronomers. If we can get those data then we can confirm
          the calculations. Any effort in this direction will be most beneficial for
          all of us.


          With best wishes and warm regards,
          Sanjay Rath
          * * *
          Sri Jagannath CenterR
          15B Gangaram Hospital Road
          New Delhi 110060, India
          http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162
          * * *


          >-----Original Message-----
          >From: Dhira Krsna BCS [mailto:Dhira.Krsna.BCS@...]
          >Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 2:31 AM
          >To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION
          >
          >
          >Dear Sanjay Rath,
          >
          >Hare Rama Krsna!
          >
          >>For example, the son of Saturn called Gulika is responsible for our
          >>birth and plays a crucial role in adhana (conception time
          >calculation)
          >>as we are born due to our sins (Saturn) and Gulika is the poison we
          >>must consume in this life as a burning for our sins.
          >
          >The verse in BPHS mentions Mandi for this calculation of
          >adhana. Here you are speaking of Gulika. Do you now accept
          >Mandi and Gulika to be one and the same? If you could tell me
          >a little about the story of Mandi and/or Gulika's birth to
          >Shani, that would be very much appreciated. Btw, why is Mandi
          >also causing pasyaputra yoga (obtaining a child not one's own)
          >when he aspects 5th house or 5th lord being in a sign of Budha
          >or Shani, along with Shani? Is that indicating a curse from past life?
          >
          >I guess there might be some pasyaputra yoga in my chart as
          >well. And a last question: could you change my chart on the
          >guru's webpage to the time of 10:51:00 and with my ayanamsa
          >47:06 less than Lahiri, if it's not asked too much?
          >
          >Thank you.
          >
          >Yours,
          >Dhira Krsna dasa,
          >Jyotishi
          >http://www.radhadesh.com
          >http://www.geocities.com/dvdd1008/Jyotisha.html
          >http://srijagannath.org/education/dhira_krsna_das.html
          >
          >
          >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          >--------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by
          >illness or disease?
          >Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts!
          >http://us.click.yahoo.com/UwRTUD/UOnJAA/i1hLAA/.8XolB/TM
          >---------------------------------------------------------------
          >-----~->
          >
          >Archives: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology
          >
          >Group info: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology/info.html
          >
          >To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic-astrology-unsubscribe@egroups.com
          >
          >....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......
          >
          >|| Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||
          >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Michael Travass
          Hi Sanjay, This is regarding your comment that Mandi should be in a Kendra in the Navamsa to determine the lost horoscopy. What about a chart where the birth
          Message 4 of 12 , Mar 19, 2005

            Hi Sanjay,

             

            This is regarding your comment that Mandi should be in a Kendra in the Navamsa to determine the lost horoscopy.

             

            What about a chart where the birth details are known and Mandi is not in a Kendra to the Navamsa Lagna.

             

            How do we reconcile this?

             

            Would appreciate your remarks,

             

            Mike

             

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Sanjay Rath [mailto:guruji@...]
            Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 12:32 AM
            To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION

             



            Jaya Jagannatha
            Dear Dhira Krsna

            I am still having the problem recoinciling Gulika Kala with Gulika and
            Mandi. If the Kala is to follow Saturn then how can Gulika be in the body
            (time or Kala) of Saturn? If Gulika is different from Gulika Kala then alone
            can it be the beginning of Saturn. Prasna Marga takes Gulika as Mandi (there
            is a confusion of terms over there) as has been recorded by translator Dr B
            V Raman. On the other hand lost horoscopy requires Mandi to be in a kendra
            from navamsa lagna and thus this is used for the purpose. But it is clear
            from the various texts that they are different - one that gives poison to
            the native and the other that shows what poiso he gives to the world.

            Posyaputra yogas have to do more with the eunuch planets not giving
            children. You have a good point there.

            Visti changes the webpages. In fact the srijagannath.org site is being
            revamped and you will soon have some webspace for not only the primary page
            but also to upload lessons etc that you wish.

            It is stated that Mandi and Gulika were like two spots that have been
            spotted once by astronomers. If we can get those data then we can confirm
            the calculations. Any effort in this direction will be most beneficial for
            all of us.


            With best wishes and warm regards,
            Sanjay Rath
            * * *
            Sri Jagannath CenterR
            15B Gangaram Hospital Road
            New Delhi 110060, India
            http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162
            * * *


            >-----Original Message-----
            >From: Dhira Krsna BCS [mailto:Dhira.Krsna.BCS@...]
            >Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 2:31 AM
            >To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION
            >
            >
            >Dear Sanjay Rath,
            >
            >Hare Rama Krsna!
            >
            >>For example, the son of Saturn called Gulika is responsible for our
            >>birth and plays a crucial role in adhana (conception time
            >calculation)
            >>as we are born due to our sins (Saturn) and Gulika is the poison we
            >>must consume in this life as a burning for our sins.
            >
            >The verse in BPHS mentions Mandi for this calculation of
            >adhana. Here you are speaking of Gulika. Do you now accept
            >Mandi and Gulika to be one and the same? If you could tell me
            >a little about the story of Mandi and/or Gulika's birth to
            >Shani, that would be very much appreciated. Btw, why is Mandi
            >also causing pasyaputra yoga (obtaining a child not one's own)
            >when he aspects 5th house or 5th lord being in a sign of Budha
            >or Shani, along with Shani? Is that indicating a curse from past life?
            >
            >I guess there might be some pasyaputra yoga in my chart as
            >well. And a last question: could you change my chart on the
            >guru's webpage to the time of 10:51:00 and with my ayanamsa
            >47:06 less than Lahiri, if it's not asked too much?
            >
            >Thank you.
            >
            >Yours,
            >Dhira Krsna dasa,
            >Jyotishi
            >http://www.radhadesh.com
            >http://www.geocities.com/dvdd1008/Jyotisha.html
            >http://srijagannath.org/education/dhira_krsna_das.html
            >
            >
            >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            >--------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by
            >illness or disease?
            >Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts!
            >http://us.click.yahoo.com/UwRTUD/UOnJAA/i1hLAA/.8XolB/TM
            >---------------------------------------------------------------
            >-----~->
            >
            >Archives: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology
            >
            >Group info: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology/info.html
            >
            >To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic-astrology-unsubscribe@egroups.com
            >
            >....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......
            >
            >||   Om Tat Sat   ||   Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu   ||
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >



            Archives: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology

            Group info: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology/info.html

            To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic-astrology-unsubscribe@egroups.com

            ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

            ||   Om Tat Sat   ||   Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu   ||




          • Sanjay Rath
            Jaya Jagannatha Dear Mike Then the chart was never meant to be lost. If the birth details got lost then it can only be because mandi occupied a kendra in
            Message 5 of 12 , Mar 19, 2005
               
               
              Jaya Jagannatha
              Dear Mike
              Then the chart was never meant to be lost. If the birth details got lost then it can only be because mandi occupied a kendra in navamsa and had a strong influence on the lagna to cause such a loss of birth details.
              With best wishes and warm regards,
              Sanjay Rath
              * * *
              Sri Jagannath Center®
              15B Gangaram Hospital Road
              New Delhi 110060, India
              http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162
              * * *
               


              From: Michael Travass [mailto:mtravass@...]
              Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 11:11 AM
              To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION

              Hi Sanjay,

               

              This is regarding your comment that Mandi should be in a Kendra in the Navamsa to determine the lost horoscopy.

               

              What about a chart where the birth details are known and Mandi is not in a Kendra to the Navamsa Lagna.

               

              How do we reconcile this?

               

              Would appreciate your remarks,

               

              Mike

               

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Sanjay Rath [mailto:guruji@...]
              Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 12:32 AM
              To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION

               



              Jaya Jagannatha
              Dear Dhira Krsna

              I am still having the problem recoinciling Gulika Kala with Gulika and
              Mandi. If the Kala is to follow Saturn then how can Gulika be in the body
              (time or Kala) of Saturn? If Gulika is different from Gulika Kala then alone
              can it be the beginning of Saturn. Prasna Marga takes Gulika as Mandi (there
              is a confusion of terms over there) as has been recorded by translator Dr B
              V Raman. On the other hand lost horoscopy requires Mandi to be in a kendra
              from navamsa lagna and thus this is used for the purpose. But it is clear
              from the various texts that they are different - one that gives poison to
              the native and the other that shows what poiso he gives to the world.

              Posyaputra yogas have to do more with the eunuch planets not giving
              children. You have a good point there.

              Visti changes the webpages. In fact the srijagannath.org site is being
              revamped and you will soon have some webspace for not only the primary page
              but also to upload lessons etc that you wish.

              It is stated that Mandi and Gulika were like two spots that have been
              spotted once by astronomers. If we can get those data then we can confirm
              the calculations. Any effort in this direction will be most beneficial for
              all of us.


              With best wishes and warm regards,
              Sanjay Rath
              * * *
              Sri Jagannath CenterR
              15B Gangaram Hospital Road
              New Delhi 110060, India
              http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162
              * * *


              >-----Original Message-----
              >From: Dhira Krsna BCS [mailto:Dhira.Krsna.BCS@...]
              >Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 2:31 AM
              >To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION
              >
              >
              >Dear Sanjay Rath,
              >
              >Hare Rama Krsna!
              >
              >>For example, the son of Saturn called Gulika is responsible for our
              >>birth and plays a crucial role in adhana (conception time
              >calculation)
              >>as we are born due to our sins (Saturn) and Gulika is the poison we
              >>must consume in this life as a burning for our sins.
              >
              >The verse in BPHS mentions Mandi for this calculation of
              >adhana. Here you are speaking of Gulika. Do you now accept
              >Mandi and Gulika to be one and the same? If you could tell me
              >a little about the story of Mandi and/or Gulika's birth to
              >Shani, that would be very much appreciated. Btw, why is Mandi
              >also causing pasyaputra yoga (obtaining a child not one's own)
              >when he aspects 5th house or 5th lord being in a sign of Budha
              >or Shani, along with Shani? Is that indicating a curse from past life?
              >
              >I guess there might be some pasyaputra yoga in my chart as
              >well. And a last question: could you change my chart on the
              >guru's webpage to the time of 10:51:00 and with my ayanamsa
              >47:06 less than Lahiri, if it's not asked too much?
              >
              >Thank you.
              >
              >Yours,
              >Dhira Krsna dasa,
              >Jyotishi
              >http://www.radhadesh.com
              >http://www.geocities.com/dvdd1008/Jyotisha.html
              >http://srijagannath.org/education/dhira_krsna_das.html
              >
              >
              >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              >--------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by
              >illness or disease?
              >Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts!
              >http://us.click.yahoo.com/UwRTUD/UOnJAA/i1hLAA/.8XolB/TM
              >---------------------------------------------------------------
              >-----~->
              >
              >Archives: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology
              >
              >Group info: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology/info.html
              >
              >To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic-astrology-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              >
              >....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......
              >
              >||   Om Tat Sat   ||   Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu   ||
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >



              Archives: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology

              Group info: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology/info.html

              To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic-astrology-unsubscribe@egroups.com

              ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

              ||   Om Tat Sat   ||   Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu   ||






              Archives: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology

              Group info: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology/info.html

              To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic-astrology-unsubscribe@egroups.com

              ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

              ||   Om Tat Sat   ||   Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu   ||



            • Michael Travass
              HI Sanjay, Wow.brilliant. Is Mandi anyway related to past Karmas? The logic being that we are born to expunge the Karmas from our past and the sufferings that
              Message 6 of 12 , Mar 20, 2005

                HI Sanjay,

                 

                Wow…brilliant…

                 

                Is Mandi anyway related to past Karmas?

                 

                The logic being that we are born to expunge the Karmas from our past and the sufferings that the world brings on us in this present life is related to Mandi.

                 

                Please comment.

                 

                Mike

                 

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Sanjay Rath [mailto:guruji@...]
                Sent:
                Sunday, March 20, 2005 2:25 AM
                To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION

                 

                 

                 

                Jaya Jagannatha

                Dear Mike

                Then the chart was never meant to be lost. If the birth details got lost then it can only be because mandi occupied a kendra in navamsa and had a strong influence on the lagna to cause such a loss of birth details.

                With best wishes and warm regards,

                Sanjay Rath

                * * *

                Sri Jagannath Center®

                15B Gangaram Hospital Road

                New Delhi 110060, India

                http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162

                * * *

                 

                 


                From: Michael Travass [mailto:mtravass@...]
                Sent:
                Sunday, March 20, 2005 11:11 AM
                To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION

                Hi Sanjay,

                 

                This is regarding your comment that Mandi should be in a Kendra in the Navamsa to determine the lost horoscopy.

                 

                What about a chart where the birth details are known and Mandi is not in a Kendra to the Navamsa Lagna.

                 

                How do we reconcile this?

                 

                Would appreciate your remarks,

                 

                Mike

                 

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Sanjay Rath [mailto:guruji@...]
                Sent:
                Sunday, March 20, 2005 12:32 AM
                To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION

                 



                Jaya Jagannatha
                Dear Dhira Krsna

                I am still having the problem recoinciling Gulika Kala with Gulika and
                Mandi. If the Kala is to follow Saturn then how can Gulika be in the body
                (time or Kala) of Saturn? If Gulika is different from Gulika Kala then alone
                can it be the beginning of Saturn. Prasna Marga takes Gulika as Mandi (there
                is a confusion of terms over there) as has been recorded by translator Dr B
                V Raman. On the other hand lost horoscopy requires Mandi to be in a kendra
                from navamsa lagna and thus this is used for the purpose. But it is clear
                from the various texts that they are different - one that gives poison to
                the native and the other that shows what poiso he gives to the world.

                Posyaputra yogas have to do more with the eunuch planets not giving
                children. You have a good point there.

                Visti changes the webpages. In fact the srijagannath.org site is being
                revamped and you will soon have some webspace for not only the primary page
                but also to upload lessons etc that you wish.

                It is stated that Mandi and Gulika were like two spots that have been
                spotted once by astronomers. If we can get those data then we can confirm
                the calculations. Any effort in this direction will be most beneficial for
                all of us.


                With best wishes and warm regards,
                Sanjay Rath
                * * *
                Sri Jagannath CenterR
                15B
                Gangaram Hospital Road
                New Delhi 110060, India
                http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162
                * * *


                >-----Original Message-----
                >From: Dhira Krsna BCS [mailto:Dhira.Krsna.BCS@...]
                >Sent:
                Sunday, March 20, 2005 2:31 AM
                >To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION
                >
                >
                >Dear Sanjay Rath,
                >
                >Hare Rama Krsna!
                >
                >>For example, the son of Saturn called Gulika is responsible for our
                >>birth and plays a crucial role in adhana (conception time
                >calculation)
                >>as we are born due to our sins (Saturn) and Gulika is the poison we
                >>must consume in this life as a burning for our sins.
                >
                >The verse in BPHS mentions Mandi for this calculation of
                >adhana. Here you are speaking of Gulika. Do you now accept
                >Mandi and Gulika to be one and the same? If you could tell me
                >a little about the story of Mandi and/or Gulika's birth to
                >Shani, that would be very much appreciated. Btw, why is Mandi
                >also causing pasyaputra yoga (obtaining a child not one's own)
                >when he aspects 5th house or 5th lord being in a sign of Budha
                >or Shani, along with Shani? Is that indicating a curse from past life?
                >
                >I guess there might be some pasyaputra yoga in my chart as
                >well. And a last question: could you change my chart on the
                >guru's webpage to the time of
                10:51:00 and with my ayanamsa
                >47:06 less than Lahiri, if it's not asked too much?
                >
                >Thank you.
                >
                >Yours,
                >Dhira Krsna dasa,
                >Jyotishi
                >http://www.radhadesh.com
                >http://www.geocities.com/dvdd1008/Jyotisha.html
                >http://srijagannath.org/education/dhira_krsna_das.html
                >
                >
                >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                >--------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by
                >illness or disease?
                >Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts!
                >http://us.click.yahoo.com/UwRTUD/UOnJAA/i1hLAA/.8XolB/TM
                >---------------------------------------------------------------
                >-----~->
                >
                >Archives: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology
                >
                >Group info: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology/info.html
                >
                >To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic-astrology-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                >
                >....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......
                >
                >||  
                Om Tat Sat   ||   Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu   ||
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >



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              • Sanjay Rath
                Jaya Jagannatha Dear Mike Saturn is the planet that symbolises our sins and causes rebirth (perhaps that s why Saturn get digbala or directional strength in
                Message 7 of 12 , Mar 21, 2005
                  Jaya Jagannatha
                  Dear Mike
                   
                  Saturn is the planet that symbolises our sins and causes rebirth (perhaps that's why Saturn get digbala or directional strength in 7th house - none other does. this is the house of our desires - kaama). So Saturn is intricately linked to rebirth and is the key planet used for calculating the adhana i.e. conception charts. Mandi and Gulika are the children of Saturn and all chidren of planets are related to the significations of the planet. Mandi and Gulika symbolise the poison we gave to others and that we receive from others - its a two way traffic. You will find this two way traffic in all walks of life including this list where people are always trying to *out do* others in a competitive dog eat dog world.
                   
                  Most westerners cannot understand this thing about India as to why do our people *bite* each other in public. Its not the fault of the people but that of an intense system of competition that as been created after *independance* due to the position of diabolical Rahu in the ascendant of India aspecting the 5th house (Indian population/public) and 7th house (foreign relations) and 9th house (policy). Reforms have started and while the government has reformed itself considerably with red tape gone etc, the people of India have yet to reform. you can see this in this list and many other forum. The exchanges are very *Mandi-Gulika* type where one Indian throws poison on another which is a *Mandi* generated action and then somewhere in this universe the karma has to rebound, and this rebound is *Gulika*...so Gulika is the same as Mandi but is inward or towards the native while Gulika is outward.
                   
                  Many people say that they are the same, to which I say yes they are in nature but Prabhupada and other saints have emphasied on this rebound of karma which explains the Mandi-Gulika syndrome and the fact that although they are similar, they are different in action.
                   
                  Now it is clear that *Mandi* alone represents the bad karma *we do (our action)* towards others. So we are to be reborn to face this karma and hence Mandi plays a significant role in our re-incarnation.
                   
                  I hope someone can give Prabhupada's tale of the widow's of Vrindavan.
                   
                  If there is one common thread we find in all great saints be it Jesus, Buddha or Shankara, it is just one tale 'get out of this Mandi-Gulika syndrome' by forgiving, forgetting and forging ahead'. The only answer to all the Gulika we get in life is AHIMSA. Hope this helps Mike.
                   
                  With best wishes and warm regards,
                  Sanjay Rath
                  * * *
                  Sri Jagannath Center®
                  15B Gangaram Hospital Road
                  New Delhi 110060, India
                  http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162
                  * * *
                   


                  From: Michael Travass [mailto:mtravass@...]
                  Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 10:29 PM
                  To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION

                  HI Sanjay,

                   

                  Wow…brilliant…

                   

                  Is Mandi anyway related to past Karmas?

                   

                  The logic being that we are born to expunge the Karmas from our past and the sufferings that the world brings on us in this present life is related to Mandi.

                   

                  Please comment.

                   

                  Mike

                   

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Sanjay Rath [mailto:guruji@...]
                  Sent:
                  Sunday, March 20, 2005 2:25 AM
                  To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION

                   

                   

                   

                  Jaya Jagannatha

                  Dear Mike

                  Then the chart was never meant to be lost. If the birth details got lost then it can only be because mandi occupied a kendra in navamsa and had a strong influence on the lagna to cause such a loss of birth details.

                  With best wishes and warm regards,

                  Sanjay Rath

                  * * *

                  Sri Jagannath Center®

                  15B Gangaram Hospital Road

                  New Delhi 110060, India

                  http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162

                  * * *

                   

                   


                  From: Michael Travass [mailto:mtravass@...]
                  Sent:
                  Sunday, March 20, 2005 11:11 AM
                  To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION

                  Hi Sanjay,

                   

                  This is regarding your comment that Mandi should be in a Kendra in the Navamsa to determine the lost horoscopy.

                   

                  What about a chart where the birth details are known and Mandi is not in a Kendra to the Navamsa Lagna.

                   

                  How do we reconcile this?

                   

                  Would appreciate your remarks,

                   

                  Mike

                   

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Sanjay Rath [mailto:guruji@...]
                  Sent:
                  Sunday, March 20, 2005 12:32 AM
                  To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION

                   



                  Jaya Jagannatha
                  Dear Dhira Krsna

                  I am still having the problem recoinciling Gulika Kala with Gulika and
                  Mandi. If the Kala is to follow Saturn then how can Gulika be in the body
                  (time or Kala) of Saturn? If Gulika is different from Gulika Kala then alone
                  can it be the beginning of Saturn. Prasna Marga takes Gulika as Mandi (there
                  is a confusion of terms over there) as has been recorded by translator Dr B
                  V Raman. On the other hand lost horoscopy requires Mandi to be in a kendra
                  from navamsa lagna and thus this is used for the purpose. But it is clear
                  from the various texts that they are different - one that gives poison to
                  the native and the other that shows what poiso he gives to the world.

                  Posyaputra yogas have to do more with the eunuch planets not giving
                  children. You have a good point there.

                  Visti changes the webpages. In fact the srijagannath.org site is being
                  revamped and you will soon have some webspace for not only the primary page
                  but also to upload lessons etc that you wish.

                  It is stated that Mandi and Gulika were like two spots that have been
                  spotted once by astronomers. If we can get those data then we can confirm
                  the calculations. Any effort in this direction will be most beneficial for
                  all of us.


                  With best wishes and warm regards,
                  Sanjay Rath
                  * * *
                  Sri Jagannath CenterR
                  15B
                  Gangaram Hospital Road
                  New Delhi 110060, India
                  http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162
                  * * *


                  >-----Original Message-----
                  >From: Dhira Krsna BCS [mailto:Dhira.Krsna.BCS@...]
                  >Sent:
                  Sunday, March 20, 2005 2:31 AM
                  >To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION
                  >
                  >
                  >Dear Sanjay Rath,
                  >
                  >Hare Rama Krsna!
                  >
                  >>For example, the son of Saturn called Gulika is responsible for our
                  >>birth and plays a crucial role in adhana (conception time
                  >calculation)
                  >>as we are born due to our sins (Saturn) and Gulika is the poison we
                  >>must consume in this life as a burning for our sins.
                  >
                  >The verse in BPHS mentions Mandi for this calculation of
                  >adhana. Here you are speaking of Gulika. Do you now accept
                  >Mandi and Gulika to be one and the same? If you could tell me
                  >a little about the story of Mandi and/or Gulika's birth to
                  >Shani, that would be very much appreciated. Btw, why is Mandi
                  >also causing pasyaputra yoga (obtaining a child not one's own)
                  >when he aspects 5th house or 5th lord being in a sign of Budha
                  >or Shani, along with Shani? Is that indicating a curse from past life?
                  >
                  >I guess there might be some pasyaputra yoga in my chart as
                  >well. And a last question: could you change my chart on the
                  >guru's webpage to the time of
                  10:51:00 and with my ayanamsa
                  >47:06 less than Lahiri, if it's not asked too much?
                  >
                  >Thank you.
                  >
                  >Yours,
                  >Dhira Krsna dasa,
                  >Jyotishi
                  >http://www.radhadesh.com
                  >http://www.geocities.com/dvdd1008/Jyotisha.html
                  >http://srijagannath.org/education/dhira_krsna_das.html
                  >
                  >
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                • lakshmikary
                  Hare Krishna Dear Sanjay, PLease read below, one day we will beable to use astrology more extensively....in various ways,you only touched on D60,etc Best
                  Message 8 of 12 , Mar 21, 2005
                    Hare Krishna
                    Dear Sanjay,
                    PLease read below, one day we will beable to use astrology more
                    extensively....in various ways,you only touched on D60,etc
                    Best wishes,
                    Lakshmi

                    One of the most common issues of arguments of skeptics regarding
                    reincarnation is that the case of children who claims to remember
                    their previous lives comes from cultures or communities whose people
                    believe in reincarnation. Thus they try to rationalize that it is a
                    kind of fantasy which arises from hereditary belief. Dr. Pasricha (03-
                    21-05)
                    One of the most common issues of arguments of skeptics regarding
                    reincarnation is that the case of children who claims to remember
                    their previous lives comes from cultures or communities whose people
                    believe in reincarnation. Thus they try to rationalize that it is a
                    kind of fantasy which arises from hereditary belief. The other day in
                    one of the article in Times of India, Sukhwant Singh challenged why
                    so far there are not any case from Moslem community. Thanks to Dr.
                    Satwant Pasricha, Head of Department of Clinical Psycology, NIMHANS,
                    who has found few cases, which occured among Sunni Moslems who,
                    guided by their religious teachings, do not believe in reincarnation.
                    (Some Shiite Moslem communities do endorse the idea of reincarnation)

                    In India, Dr. Satwant K. Pasricha (along with Dr. Ian Stenenson of
                    University of Virginia) has investigated over 400 cases. Most of
                    these cases occured in the religious communities of Hindus, Sikhs,
                    and Jains, who believe in reincarnation; a few case also occured
                    among Sunni Moslems who do not believe in reincarnation. A change in
                    religion of varying degree has been reported in some of these cases.
                    A change has been considered a minor change if it occured in cases
                    wherein a child claimed to remember the life of a person who belonged
                    to slightly different religion (from Hindu to Jain or Sikh and vice
                    versa). There are also the cases wherein children remembered having
                    belonged to a religion in the previous life that was strkingly
                    different from their present one. For example, a Hindu child who
                    remembers having been a Moslem in the previous life and vice versa is
                    considered as a case of major change in religion.

                    An analysis of 400 cases revealed that 26 subjects were Moslems who
                    remembered having been Moslems in the previous life (19 caes) or
                    Hindus who remebered having been Moslems (7 cases). There were seven
                    cases of Moslems where no change in religion was reported. These case
                    reports have been published in NIMHANS Journal, April 1998 issue, pp
                    93-100) and also submitted to the Journal of the American Society for
                    Psychical Research for publication, says Dr. Pasricha.

                    Case of Nasruddin Shah: Nasruddin was born in Allahganj, a town of
                    District Shaharanpur, UP, around April 1962. His parents were Gulsher
                    and Bhaggo Shah. The family were sunni Moslems and belonged to lower
                    socio economic class. Nasruddin began to speak at about the age of
                    one, and he was about 2, when he first mentioned a previous life. He
                    said that he was a Thakur and that his money was buried "under the
                    door". He gradually gave more details, which included the
                    descriptions of a quarrel that led to his death in the previous life.
                    He said that his own son was among the murderers. One day an elephant
                    came from Phargana (a village about 9-10 kilometers from Allahganj)
                    to Allahganj. Nasruddin said that the elephant was his. Word about
                    Nasruddin's claims and recognition of the elephant reached Phargana.
                    A son and the widow of one Hardevbaksh Singh, a Thakur, then came to
                    Allahganj to visit Nasruddin. Nasruddin is said to have recognised
                    them by giving their relatioships without mentioning their names.

                    Nasruddin's statements matched events in the life and death of
                    Hardevbaksh Singh of Phargana. Hardevbaksh Singh was a landlord who
                    lived in Phargana. He was killed in a scuffle on March 21, 1961, when
                    he was about 70-75 years old. The quarrel leading to his death
                    occured over the issue of Hadevbaksh Singh's cattle trespassing into
                    someone's fields. The dispute has occured between Hardevbaksh Singh
                    and his distant cousins; but some outsiders also came in, and they
                    allegedly attacked and killed Hardevbaksh Singh. One of Hardevbaksh
                    Singh's son had been the member of the group attacking him; this was
                    a particularly obscure detail, not known outside the village.

                    Nasruddin's Unusual Behaviour: In addition to his statements about a
                    previous life, Nasruddin displayed certain behaviour that accorded
                    with the behaviour of a Thakur but that was unusual for his poor
                    present circumstances. For example, he refused to eat food on a plate
                    used by someone else and refused to drink from someone else's glass.
                    This behaviour persisted till the age of four. He also had other
                    behavioural features of "Thakur Snobbery" that lasted till the age of
                    13-14 years, much beyond his cognitive memories. For example, he
                    would not collect cow dung for fuel, a task readily accepted by his
                    older brother or other children in the community. Nasruddin refused
                    to eat beef from the very young age, although other family members
                    ate it; he did eat mutton. He would not accompany his father to the
                    masque or say Moslem prayers, which the other family members did.
                    Although his parents observerd Ramzan reguraly, Nasaruddin would not
                    join them in fasting; he would sometimes even make fun and ridicule
                    them for fasting.

                    Nasruddin's Birthmarks: Nasruddin had prominents birthmarks that
                    corresponded to the wounds inflicted on the body of Hardevbaksh Singh
                    as per the post-mortem report. In the context of the birthmarks, Dr.
                    Ian Stevenson has published a longer report in this case[1].

                    Case of Nagina: Nagina was born in October 1990 in a town in District
                    Farrukhabad, U.P. Her father, Amaruddin, was a Tonga driver. The
                    family belonged to the sect of Sunni Moslems who did not believe in
                    reincarnation. They were the members of the middle lower
                    socioeconomic class. When Nagina was a little over one year old and
                    before she had acquired speech, she used to try to convey something
                    through gestures. She would make a gesture of striking a match and
                    pointing it to her head. This behaviour started when one of
                    Amaruddin's aunts, who was visiting them, asked for some oil to
                    massage her head. Nagina brought a bottle with kerosene in it. The
                    aunt said with surprise that she had asked for mustard oil and asked
                    what she would do with kerosene. Nagina then showed her, through the
                    gesture, how she (in the previous life) had poured kerosene on her
                    head and set herself on fire by lighting a match. About the age of
                    three, when Nagina could spoke clearly, she gave more details about a
                    previous life. She said that she was Oma, a teacher, and that she had
                    two dauthers and two sons. Her statements also included the details
                    of how she had a quarrel with her husband and set herself on fire
                    after dowsing herself in kerosene.

                    A women called Oma devi lived a few yards away from the house of
                    Amaruddin. She was married and had four children: two dauthers and
                    two sons. She was a teacher in a school in District Etah, and her
                    husband sold books and stationary in Mohammadabad. The couple did not
                    get along well. On May 19, 1987 they had a serious quarrel; Oma Devi
                    dowsed herself with kerosene and immolated herself. Her body was
                    charred completely; she was 47 at the time. On hearing about Nagina's
                    claims Oma Devi's sons called her to their home. Oma Devi's younger
                    son expressed reservations about the case but did not deny it
                    completely. Her older son was convinced that Nagina was his mother
                    reborn. His conviction derived from Nagina's behaviour and her
                    knowledge of certain events in Oma Devi's life that he believed were
                    not known to outsiders.

                    Nagina's Unusual Behaviour: Nagina showed behaviour, which refelected
                    her preoccupation with the mode of death in her claimed previous
                    life. She also showed appropriate behaviour towards Oma Devi's sons
                    and gave information that was not in the public domain. When Oma
                    Devi's husband died in April 1996, Nagina became very upset (she was
                    about 5 1/2 years old at that time.)

                    Nagina's Birthmarks: Nagina's parents, and also some other
                    informants, noticed marks suggestive of burns on her body when she
                    was born. On examination in December 1995, two marks were clearly
                    seen on her body. These were hypopigmented areas under Nagina's chin
                    and on her lower abdomen.

                    Case of Naresh Kumar: Naresh was born in Fabraury 1981 in the village
                    of Baznagar of District Lucknow, U.P. His parents were Guruprasad and
                    his wife, Bishwana. The family were of middle lower socioeconomic
                    status and were Hindus. About the age of one year, when he started to
                    speak, Naresh used to utter two words, "Kakori" (name of a place)
                    and "kharkhara" (local word for a horse-cart). When he was about four
                    years old, he gave details about a previous life. He said that he was
                    carrying mangoes in his horse-cart when it collided with a vehicle
                    and he died; he also said that he was Moslem and lived in Kakori.
                    Naresh used to talk about a previous life whenever anyone asked him
                    in the village.

                    A moslem Fakir called Haider Ali used to come to Baznagar every
                    Thursday for alms. After Naresh started walking, he used to follow
                    Haider Ali around the village. Naresh said that Haider Ali was his
                    father and that he wanted to go with him. Everyone in the village
                    called Haider Ali "Baba" but Naresh used to call him, "Abba"
                    (father). Haider Ali lived in Kakori with his family who belonged to
                    the Sunni sect of Islam. He had married twice and had one son from
                    his first marriage, three sons and seven dauthers from his second.
                    Mushir Ali was his oldest son from the secong marriage.

                    Naresh was so insistent in his demands to be taken to Kakori that
                    Bishwana decided to ask for Haider Ali's help, as He was a Moslem,
                    and came from Kakori. Haider Ali advised her to take Naresh to a
                    Mazar (grave of a Moslem Saint) so that he would stop talking about
                    the previous life.*Naresh's parents did take him to Mazar, but this
                    did not help; Naresh continued to talk about the previous life and to
                    insist on going to his previous house. One day he even started going
                    toward the road by himself. Eventually, Guruprasad decided to take
                    Naresh, along with some other people from Baznagar, to Kakori. Naresh
                    is said to have led them to Mushir Ali's house. On reaching the
                    house, Naresh recongnized several objects that had belonged to Mushir
                    Ali, such as a cap and the contents of Mushir Ali's suitcase. He was
                    also credited with having correctly recognized members of Mushir
                    Ali's immediate family, as well as other relatives and friends.
                    Naresh, when questioned, told them about the bank account that the
                    family had when Mushir Ali died. He also mentioned the name of a
                    person who owed some money to Mushir Ali. (The family acknowledged
                    this as true and added that the person in question had returned the
                    money after Mushir Ali's death.) On the bais of these and other
                    statements Naresh was accepted as Mushir Ali (the son of Haider Ali)
                    reborn.

                    Mushir Ali had hired a horse-cart and used to take vegetables and
                    fruits to the market; he was the sole breadwinner of the family at
                    the time of his death. On june 30, 1980 in the early hours of the
                    morning, Mushir Ali was taking mangoes to the market in Lucknow in
                    his horse-cart. He had gone a little more than 2 kilometers from
                    Kakori when his cart collided with a tractor; he died almost
                    instantly. He was 25 years old at the time. Mushir Ali's family were
                    economically no better off than Naresh's family. Mushir Ali's other
                    brothers, when Dr. Satwant Pasricha met them in 1988, had grown and
                    had their own embroidery buisness which improved their economic
                    situation to some extent.

                    Naresh's Unusual Behaviour: When Naresh was about 2 years old, he
                    would assume the posture of kneeling down and saying Namaz. He would
                    try to do it when he was alone. and would stop when he noticed that
                    others were observing him. Naresh also played at driving a horse-
                    cart. He would tie a rope to a cot and push it and would make sounds
                    as if driving a horse. He also spoke a few words of Urdu.

                    Naresh's Birth Defect: Naresh had a birth defect (a depressed area)
                    near the middle of his chest., slightly on the right side. This
                    corresponded to the fracture of the ribs of Mushir Ali that was
                    reported in the post-mortem examination. In this case of the birth
                    defect, Dr. Satwant Pasricha has published a separate paper[2].

                    * My opinion on why Haider Ali sent Naresh to grave is that Haider
                    Ali, being a Sunni Moslem, did not believe in reincarnation, so he
                    might have thought that Naresh is haunted by Mushir Ali's spirit, and
                    if he goes to the grave of a Saintly person, then probably the spirit
                    would leave him.

                    1. Stevenson I. Reincarnation and Biology: A Contribution to the
                    Etiology of Birthmarks and Birthdefects. Connecticut: Praeger, 1997.
                    2. Pasricha, S. K. Case of the Reincarnation Type in North India with
                    Birthmarks and Birth defects. J.Sci. Explor 1998; 12: 259-93.
                    - eclipse-- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "Sanjay Rath"
                    <guruji@s...> wrote:
                    > Jaya Jagannatha
                    > Dear Mike
                    >
                    > Saturn is the planet that symbolises our sins and causes rebirth
                    (perhaps
                    > that's why Saturn get digbala or directional strength in 7th house -
                    none
                    > other does. this is the house of our desires - kaama). So Saturn is
                    > intricately linked to rebirth and is the key planet used for
                    calculating the
                    > adhana i.e. conception charts. Mandi and Gulika are the children of
                    Saturn
                    > and all chidren of planets are related to the significations of the
                    planet.
                    > Mandi and Gulika symbolise the poison we gave to others and that we
                    receive
                    > from others - its a two way traffic. You will find this two way
                    traffic in
                    > all walks of life including this list where people are always
                    trying to *out
                    > do* others in a competitive dog eat dog world.
                    >
                    > Most westerners cannot understand this thing about India as to why
                    do our
                    > people *bite* each other in public. Its not the fault of the people
                    but that
                    > of an intense system of competition that as been created after
                    > *independance* due to the position of diabolical Rahu in the
                    ascendant of
                    > India aspecting the 5th house (Indian population/public) and 7th
                    house
                    > (foreign relations) and 9th house (policy). Reforms have started
                    and while
                    > the government has reformed itself considerably with red tape gone
                    etc, the
                    > people of India have yet to reform. you can see this in this list
                    and many
                    > other forum. The exchanges are very *Mandi-Gulika* type where one
                    Indian
                    > throws poison on another which is a *Mandi* generated action and
                    then
                    > somewhere in this universe the karma has to rebound, and this
                    rebound is
                    > *Gulika*...so Gulika is the same as Mandi but is inward or towards
                    the
                    > native while Gulika is outward.
                    >
                    > Many people say that they are the same, to which I say yes they are
                    in
                    > nature but Prabhupada and other saints have emphasied on this
                    rebound of
                    > karma which explains the Mandi-Gulika syndrome and the fact that
                    although
                    > they are similar, they are different in action.
                    >
                    > Now it is clear that *Mandi* alone represents the bad karma *we do
                    (our
                    > action)* towards others. So we are to be reborn to face this karma
                    and hence
                    > Mandi plays a significant role in our re-incarnation.
                    >
                    > I hope someone can give Prabhupada's tale of the widow's of
                    Vrindavan.
                    >
                    > If there is one common thread we find in all great saints be it
                    Jesus,
                    > Buddha or Shankara, it is just one tale 'get out of this Mandi-
                    Gulika
                    > syndrome' by forgiving, forgetting and forging ahead'. The only
                    answer to
                    > all the Gulika we get in life is AHIMSA. Hope this helps Mike.
                    >
                    > With best wishes and warm regards,
                    > Sanjay Rath
                    > * * *
                    > Sri Jagannath CenterR
                    > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road
                    > New Delhi 110060, India
                    > http://srath.com <http://srath.com/> , +91-11-25717162
                    > * * *
                    >
                    >
                    > _____
                    >
                    > From: Michael Travass [mailto:mtravass@t...]
                    > Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 10:29 PM
                    > To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: RE: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION
                    >
                    >
                    > HI Sanjay,
                    >
                    > Wow.brilliant.
                    >
                    > Is Mandi anyway related to past Karmas?
                    >
                    > The logic being that we are born to expunge the Karmas from our
                    past and the
                    > sufferings that the world brings on us in this present life is
                    related to
                    > Mandi.
                    >
                    > Please comment.
                    >
                    > Mike
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Sanjay Rath [mailto:guruji@s...]
                    > Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 2:25 AM
                    > To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: RE: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Jaya Jagannatha
                    > Dear Mike
                    > Then the chart was never meant to be lost. If the birth details got
                    lost
                    > then it can only be because mandi occupied a kendra in navamsa and
                    had a
                    > strong influence on the lagna to cause such a loss of birth details.
                    > With best wishes and warm regards,
                    > Sanjay Rath
                    > * * *
                    > Sri Jagannath CenterR
                    > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road
                    > New Delhi 110060, India
                    > http://srath.com <http://srath.com/> , +91-11-25717162
                    > * * *
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > _____
                    >
                    > From: Michael Travass [mailto:mtravass@t...]
                    > Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 11:11 AM
                    > To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: RE: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION
                    > Hi Sanjay,
                    >
                    > This is regarding your comment that Mandi should be in a Kendra in
                    the
                    > Navamsa to determine the lost horoscopy.
                    >
                    > What about a chart where the birth details are known and Mandi is
                    not in a
                    > Kendra to the Navamsa Lagna.
                    >
                    > How do we reconcile this?
                    >
                    > Would appreciate your remarks,
                    >
                    > Mike
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Sanjay Rath [mailto:guruji@s...]
                    > Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 12:32 AM
                    > To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: RE: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Jaya Jagannatha
                    > Dear Dhira Krsna
                    >
                    > I am still having the problem recoinciling Gulika Kala with Gulika
                    and
                    > Mandi. If the Kala is to follow Saturn then how can Gulika be in
                    the body
                    > (time or Kala) of Saturn? If Gulika is different from Gulika Kala
                    then alone
                    > can it be the beginning of Saturn. Prasna Marga takes Gulika as
                    Mandi (there
                    > is a confusion of terms over there) as has been recorded by
                    translator Dr B
                    > V Raman. On the other hand lost horoscopy requires Mandi to be in a
                    kendra
                    > from navamsa lagna and thus this is used for the purpose. But it is
                    clear
                    > from the various texts that they are different - one that gives
                    poison to
                    > the native and the other that shows what poiso he gives to the
                    world.
                    >
                    > Posyaputra yogas have to do more with the eunuch planets not giving
                    > children. You have a good point there.
                    >
                    > Visti changes the webpages. In fact the srijagannath.org site is
                    being
                    > revamped and you will soon have some webspace for not only the
                    primary page
                    > but also to upload lessons etc that you wish.
                    >
                    > It is stated that Mandi and Gulika were like two spots that have
                    been
                    > spotted once by astronomers. If we can get those data then we can
                    confirm
                    > the calculations. Any effort in this direction will be most
                    beneficial for
                    > all of us.
                    >
                    >
                    > With best wishes and warm regards,
                    > Sanjay Rath
                    > * * *
                    > Sri Jagannath CenterR
                    > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road
                    > New Delhi 110060, India
                    > http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162
                    > * * *
                    >
                    >
                    > >-----Original Message-----
                    > >From: Dhira Krsna BCS [mailto:Dhira.Krsna.BCS@p...]
                    > >Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 2:31 AM
                    > >To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                    > >Subject: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >Dear Sanjay Rath,
                    > >
                    > >Hare Rama Krsna!
                    > >
                    > >>For example, the son of Saturn called Gulika is responsible for
                    our
                    > >>birth and plays a crucial role in adhana (conception time
                    > >calculation)
                    > >>as we are born due to our sins (Saturn) and Gulika is the poison
                    we
                    > >>must consume in this life as a burning for our sins.
                    > >
                    > >The verse in BPHS mentions Mandi for this calculation of
                    > >adhana. Here you are speaking of Gulika. Do you now accept
                    > >Mandi and Gulika to be one and the same? If you could tell me
                    > >a little about the story of Mandi and/or Gulika's birth to
                    > >Shani, that would be very much appreciated. Btw, why is Mandi
                    > >also causing pasyaputra yoga (obtaining a child not one's own)
                    > >when he aspects 5th house or 5th lord being in a sign of Budha
                    > >or Shani, along with Shani? Is that indicating a curse from past
                    life?
                    > >
                    > >I guess there might be some pasyaputra yoga in my chart as
                    > >well. And a last question: could you change my chart on the
                    > >guru's webpage to the time of 10:51:00 and with my ayanamsa
                    > >47:06 less than Lahiri, if it's not asked too much?
                    > >
                    > >Thank you.
                    > >
                    > >Yours,
                    > >Dhira Krsna dasa,
                    > >Jyotishi
                    > >http://www.radhadesh.com
                    > >http://www.geocities.com/dvdd1008/Jyotisha.html
                    > >http://srijagannath.org/education/dhira_krsna_das.html
                    > >
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                  • sureshbabuag
                    Namasthe These articles were also published in Hindu News paper in the sunday Science & Technology suppliment a few years back Suresh
                    Message 9 of 12 , Mar 21, 2005
                      Namasthe

                      These articles were also published in "Hindu" News paper in the sunday
                      Science & Technology suppliment a few years back

                      Suresh




                      --- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "lakshmikary"
                      <lakshmikary@y...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hare Krishna
                      > Dear Sanjay,
                      > PLease read below, one day we will beable to use astrology more
                      > extensively....in various ways,you only touched on D60,etc
                      > Best wishes,
                      > Lakshmi
                      >
                      > One of the most common issues of arguments of skeptics regarding
                      > reincarnation is that the case of children who claims to remember
                      > their previous lives comes from cultures or communities whose people
                      > believe in reincarnation. Thus they try to rationalize that it is a
                      > kind of fantasy which arises from hereditary belief. Dr. Pasricha (03-
                      > 21-05)
                      > One of the most common issues of arguments of skeptics regarding
                      > reincarnation is that the case of children who claims to remember
                      > their previous lives comes from cultures or communities whose people
                      > believe in reincarnation. Thus they try to rationalize that it is a
                      > kind of fantasy which arises from hereditary belief. The other day in
                      > one of the article in Times of India, Sukhwant Singh challenged why
                      > so far there are not any case from Moslem community. Thanks to Dr.
                      > Satwant Pasricha, Head of Department of Clinical Psycology, NIMHANS,
                      > who has found few cases, which occured among Sunni Moslems who,
                      > guided by their religious teachings, do not believe in reincarnation.
                      > (Some Shiite Moslem communities do endorse the idea of reincarnation)
                      >
                      > In India, Dr. Satwant K. Pasricha (along with Dr. Ian Stenenson of
                      > University of Virginia) has investigated over 400 cases. Most of
                      > these cases occured in the religious communities of Hindus, Sikhs,
                      > and Jains, who believe in reincarnation; a few case also occured
                      > among Sunni Moslems who do not believe in reincarnation. A change in
                      > religion of varying degree has been reported in some of these cases.
                      > A change has been considered a minor change if it occured in cases
                      > wherein a child claimed to remember the life of a person who belonged
                      > to slightly different religion (from Hindu to Jain or Sikh and vice
                      > versa). There are also the cases wherein children remembered having
                      > belonged to a religion in the previous life that was strkingly
                      > different from their present one. For example, a Hindu child who
                      > remembers having been a Moslem in the previous life and vice versa is
                      > considered as a case of major change in religion.
                      >
                      > An analysis of 400 cases revealed that 26 subjects were Moslems who
                      > remembered having been Moslems in the previous life (19 caes) or
                      > Hindus who remebered having been Moslems (7 cases). There were seven
                      > cases of Moslems where no change in religion was reported. These case
                      > reports have been published in NIMHANS Journal, April 1998 issue, pp
                      > 93-100) and also submitted to the Journal of the American Society for
                      > Psychical Research for publication, says Dr. Pasricha.
                      >
                      > Case of Nasruddin Shah: Nasruddin was born in Allahganj, a town of
                      > District Shaharanpur, UP, around April 1962. His parents were Gulsher
                      > and Bhaggo Shah. The family were sunni Moslems and belonged to lower
                      > socio economic class. Nasruddin began to speak at about the age of
                      > one, and he was about 2, when he first mentioned a previous life. He
                      > said that he was a Thakur and that his money was buried "under the
                      > door". He gradually gave more details, which included the
                      > descriptions of a quarrel that led to his death in the previous life.
                      > He said that his own son was among the murderers. One day an elephant
                      > came from Phargana (a village about 9-10 kilometers from Allahganj)
                      > to Allahganj. Nasruddin said that the elephant was his. Word about
                      > Nasruddin's claims and recognition of the elephant reached Phargana.
                      > A son and the widow of one Hardevbaksh Singh, a Thakur, then came to
                      > Allahganj to visit Nasruddin. Nasruddin is said to have recognised
                      > them by giving their relatioships without mentioning their names.
                      >
                      > Nasruddin's statements matched events in the life and death of
                      > Hardevbaksh Singh of Phargana. Hardevbaksh Singh was a landlord who
                      > lived in Phargana. He was killed in a scuffle on March 21, 1961, when
                      > he was about 70-75 years old. The quarrel leading to his death
                      > occured over the issue of Hadevbaksh Singh's cattle trespassing into
                      > someone's fields. The dispute has occured between Hardevbaksh Singh
                      > and his distant cousins; but some outsiders also came in, and they
                      > allegedly attacked and killed Hardevbaksh Singh. One of Hardevbaksh
                      > Singh's son had been the member of the group attacking him; this was
                      > a particularly obscure detail, not known outside the village.
                      >
                      > Nasruddin's Unusual Behaviour: In addition to his statements about a
                      > previous life, Nasruddin displayed certain behaviour that accorded
                      > with the behaviour of a Thakur but that was unusual for his poor
                      > present circumstances. For example, he refused to eat food on a plate
                      > used by someone else and refused to drink from someone else's glass.
                      > This behaviour persisted till the age of four. He also had other
                      > behavioural features of "Thakur Snobbery" that lasted till the age of
                      > 13-14 years, much beyond his cognitive memories. For example, he
                      > would not collect cow dung for fuel, a task readily accepted by his
                      > older brother or other children in the community. Nasruddin refused
                      > to eat beef from the very young age, although other family members
                      > ate it; he did eat mutton. He would not accompany his father to the
                      > masque or say Moslem prayers, which the other family members did.
                      > Although his parents observerd Ramzan reguraly, Nasaruddin would not
                      > join them in fasting; he would sometimes even make fun and ridicule
                      > them for fasting.
                      >
                      > Nasruddin's Birthmarks: Nasruddin had prominents birthmarks that
                      > corresponded to the wounds inflicted on the body of Hardevbaksh Singh
                      > as per the post-mortem report. In the context of the birthmarks, Dr.
                      > Ian Stevenson has published a longer report in this case[1].
                      >
                      > Case of Nagina: Nagina was born in October 1990 in a town in District
                      > Farrukhabad, U.P. Her father, Amaruddin, was a Tonga driver. The
                      > family belonged to the sect of Sunni Moslems who did not believe in
                      > reincarnation. They were the members of the middle lower
                      > socioeconomic class. When Nagina was a little over one year old and
                      > before she had acquired speech, she used to try to convey something
                      > through gestures. She would make a gesture of striking a match and
                      > pointing it to her head. This behaviour started when one of
                      > Amaruddin's aunts, who was visiting them, asked for some oil to
                      > massage her head. Nagina brought a bottle with kerosene in it. The
                      > aunt said with surprise that she had asked for mustard oil and asked
                      > what she would do with kerosene. Nagina then showed her, through the
                      > gesture, how she (in the previous life) had poured kerosene on her
                      > head and set herself on fire by lighting a match. About the age of
                      > three, when Nagina could spoke clearly, she gave more details about a
                      > previous life. She said that she was Oma, a teacher, and that she had
                      > two dauthers and two sons. Her statements also included the details
                      > of how she had a quarrel with her husband and set herself on fire
                      > after dowsing herself in kerosene.
                      >
                      > A women called Oma devi lived a few yards away from the house of
                      > Amaruddin. She was married and had four children: two dauthers and
                      > two sons. She was a teacher in a school in District Etah, and her
                      > husband sold books and stationary in Mohammadabad. The couple did not
                      > get along well. On May 19, 1987 they had a serious quarrel; Oma Devi
                      > dowsed herself with kerosene and immolated herself. Her body was
                      > charred completely; she was 47 at the time. On hearing about Nagina's
                      > claims Oma Devi's sons called her to their home. Oma Devi's younger
                      > son expressed reservations about the case but did not deny it
                      > completely. Her older son was convinced that Nagina was his mother
                      > reborn. His conviction derived from Nagina's behaviour and her
                      > knowledge of certain events in Oma Devi's life that he believed were
                      > not known to outsiders.
                      >
                      > Nagina's Unusual Behaviour: Nagina showed behaviour, which refelected
                      > her preoccupation with the mode of death in her claimed previous
                      > life. She also showed appropriate behaviour towards Oma Devi's sons
                      > and gave information that was not in the public domain. When Oma
                      > Devi's husband died in April 1996, Nagina became very upset (she was
                      > about 5 1/2 years old at that time.)
                      >
                      > Nagina's Birthmarks: Nagina's parents, and also some other
                      > informants, noticed marks suggestive of burns on her body when she
                      > was born. On examination in December 1995, two marks were clearly
                      > seen on her body. These were hypopigmented areas under Nagina's chin
                      > and on her lower abdomen.
                      >
                      > Case of Naresh Kumar: Naresh was born in Fabraury 1981 in the village
                      > of Baznagar of District Lucknow, U.P. His parents were Guruprasad and
                      > his wife, Bishwana. The family were of middle lower socioeconomic
                      > status and were Hindus. About the age of one year, when he started to
                      > speak, Naresh used to utter two words, "Kakori" (name of a place)
                      > and "kharkhara" (local word for a horse-cart). When he was about four
                      > years old, he gave details about a previous life. He said that he was
                      > carrying mangoes in his horse-cart when it collided with a vehicle
                      > and he died; he also said that he was Moslem and lived in Kakori.
                      > Naresh used to talk about a previous life whenever anyone asked him
                      > in the village.
                      >
                      > A moslem Fakir called Haider Ali used to come to Baznagar every
                      > Thursday for alms. After Naresh started walking, he used to follow
                      > Haider Ali around the village. Naresh said that Haider Ali was his
                      > father and that he wanted to go with him. Everyone in the village
                      > called Haider Ali "Baba" but Naresh used to call him, "Abba"
                      > (father). Haider Ali lived in Kakori with his family who belonged to
                      > the Sunni sect of Islam. He had married twice and had one son from
                      > his first marriage, three sons and seven dauthers from his second.
                      > Mushir Ali was his oldest son from the secong marriage.
                      >
                      > Naresh was so insistent in his demands to be taken to Kakori that
                      > Bishwana decided to ask for Haider Ali's help, as He was a Moslem,
                      > and came from Kakori. Haider Ali advised her to take Naresh to a
                      > Mazar (grave of a Moslem Saint) so that he would stop talking about
                      > the previous life.*Naresh's parents did take him to Mazar, but this
                      > did not help; Naresh continued to talk about the previous life and to
                      > insist on going to his previous house. One day he even started going
                      > toward the road by himself. Eventually, Guruprasad decided to take
                      > Naresh, along with some other people from Baznagar, to Kakori. Naresh
                      > is said to have led them to Mushir Ali's house. On reaching the
                      > house, Naresh recongnized several objects that had belonged to Mushir
                      > Ali, such as a cap and the contents of Mushir Ali's suitcase. He was
                      > also credited with having correctly recognized members of Mushir
                      > Ali's immediate family, as well as other relatives and friends.
                      > Naresh, when questioned, told them about the bank account that the
                      > family had when Mushir Ali died. He also mentioned the name of a
                      > person who owed some money to Mushir Ali. (The family acknowledged
                      > this as true and added that the person in question had returned the
                      > money after Mushir Ali's death.) On the bais of these and other
                      > statements Naresh was accepted as Mushir Ali (the son of Haider Ali)
                      > reborn.
                      >
                      > Mushir Ali had hired a horse-cart and used to take vegetables and
                      > fruits to the market; he was the sole breadwinner of the family at
                      > the time of his death. On june 30, 1980 in the early hours of the
                      > morning, Mushir Ali was taking mangoes to the market in Lucknow in
                      > his horse-cart. He had gone a little more than 2 kilometers from
                      > Kakori when his cart collided with a tractor; he died almost
                      > instantly. He was 25 years old at the time. Mushir Ali's family were
                      > economically no better off than Naresh's family. Mushir Ali's other
                      > brothers, when Dr. Satwant Pasricha met them in 1988, had grown and
                      > had their own embroidery buisness which improved their economic
                      > situation to some extent.
                      >
                      > Naresh's Unusual Behaviour: When Naresh was about 2 years old, he
                      > would assume the posture of kneeling down and saying Namaz. He would
                      > try to do it when he was alone. and would stop when he noticed that
                      > others were observing him. Naresh also played at driving a horse-
                      > cart. He would tie a rope to a cot and push it and would make sounds
                      > as if driving a horse. He also spoke a few words of Urdu.
                      >
                      > Naresh's Birth Defect: Naresh had a birth defect (a depressed area)
                      > near the middle of his chest., slightly on the right side. This
                      > corresponded to the fracture of the ribs of Mushir Ali that was
                      > reported in the post-mortem examination. In this case of the birth
                      > defect, Dr. Satwant Pasricha has published a separate paper[2].
                      >
                      > * My opinion on why Haider Ali sent Naresh to grave is that Haider
                      > Ali, being a Sunni Moslem, did not believe in reincarnation, so he
                      > might have thought that Naresh is haunted by Mushir Ali's spirit, and
                      > if he goes to the grave of a Saintly person, then probably the spirit
                      > would leave him.
                      >
                      > 1. Stevenson I. Reincarnation and Biology: A Contribution to the
                      > Etiology of Birthmarks and Birthdefects. Connecticut: Praeger, 1997.
                      > 2. Pasricha, S. K. Case of the Reincarnation Type in North India with
                      > Birthmarks and Birth defects. J.Sci. Explor 1998; 12: 259-93.
                      > - eclipse-- In vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com, "Sanjay Rath"
                      > <guruji@s...> wrote:
                      > > Jaya Jagannatha
                      > > Dear Mike
                      > >
                      > > Saturn is the planet that symbolises our sins and causes rebirth
                      > (perhaps
                      > > that's why Saturn get digbala or directional strength in 7th house -
                      > none
                      > > other does. this is the house of our desires - kaama). So Saturn is
                      > > intricately linked to rebirth and is the key planet used for
                      > calculating the
                      > > adhana i.e. conception charts. Mandi and Gulika are the children of
                      > Saturn
                      > > and all chidren of planets are related to the significations of the
                      > planet.
                      > > Mandi and Gulika symbolise the poison we gave to others and that we
                      > receive
                      > > from others - its a two way traffic. You will find this two way
                      > traffic in
                      > > all walks of life including this list where people are always
                      > trying to *out
                      > > do* others in a competitive dog eat dog world.
                      > >
                      > > Most westerners cannot understand this thing about India as to why
                      > do our
                      > > people *bite* each other in public. Its not the fault of the people
                      > but that
                      > > of an intense system of competition that as been created after
                      > > *independance* due to the position of diabolical Rahu in the
                      > ascendant of
                      > > India aspecting the 5th house (Indian population/public) and 7th
                      > house
                      > > (foreign relations) and 9th house (policy). Reforms have started
                      > and while
                      > > the government has reformed itself considerably with red tape gone
                      > etc, the
                      > > people of India have yet to reform. you can see this in this list
                      > and many
                      > > other forum. The exchanges are very *Mandi-Gulika* type where one
                      > Indian
                      > > throws poison on another which is a *Mandi* generated action and
                      > then
                      > > somewhere in this universe the karma has to rebound, and this
                      > rebound is
                      > > *Gulika*...so Gulika is the same as Mandi but is inward or towards
                      > the
                      > > native while Gulika is outward.
                      > >
                      > > Many people say that they are the same, to which I say yes they are
                      > in
                      > > nature but Prabhupada and other saints have emphasied on this
                      > rebound of
                      > > karma which explains the Mandi-Gulika syndrome and the fact that
                      > although
                      > > they are similar, they are different in action.
                      > >
                      > > Now it is clear that *Mandi* alone represents the bad karma *we do
                      > (our
                      > > action)* towards others. So we are to be reborn to face this karma
                      > and hence
                      > > Mandi plays a significant role in our re-incarnation.
                      > >
                      > > I hope someone can give Prabhupada's tale of the widow's of
                      > Vrindavan.
                      > >
                      > > If there is one common thread we find in all great saints be it
                      > Jesus,
                      > > Buddha or Shankara, it is just one tale 'get out of this Mandi-
                      > Gulika
                      > > syndrome' by forgiving, forgetting and forging ahead'. The only
                      > answer to
                      > > all the Gulika we get in life is AHIMSA. Hope this helps Mike.
                      > >
                      > > With best wishes and warm regards,
                      > > Sanjay Rath
                      > > * * *
                      > > Sri Jagannath CenterR
                      > > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road
                      > > New Delhi 110060, India
                      > > http://srath.com <http://srath.com/> , +91-11-25717162
                      > > * * *
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > _____
                      > >
                      > > From: Michael Travass [mailto:mtravass@t...]
                      > > Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 10:29 PM
                      > > To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Subject: RE: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > HI Sanjay,
                      > >
                      > > Wow.brilliant.
                      > >
                      > > Is Mandi anyway related to past Karmas?
                      > >
                      > > The logic being that we are born to expunge the Karmas from our
                      > past and the
                      > > sufferings that the world brings on us in this present life is
                      > related to
                      > > Mandi.
                      > >
                      > > Please comment.
                      > >
                      > > Mike
                      > >
                      > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > From: Sanjay Rath [mailto:guruji@s...]
                      > > Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 2:25 AM
                      > > To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Subject: RE: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Jaya Jagannatha
                      > > Dear Mike
                      > > Then the chart was never meant to be lost. If the birth details got
                      > lost
                      > > then it can only be because mandi occupied a kendra in navamsa and
                      > had a
                      > > strong influence on the lagna to cause such a loss of birth details.
                      > > With best wishes and warm regards,
                      > > Sanjay Rath
                      > > * * *
                      > > Sri Jagannath CenterR
                      > > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road
                      > > New Delhi 110060, India
                      > > http://srath.com <http://srath.com/> , +91-11-25717162
                      > > * * *
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > _____
                      > >
                      > > From: Michael Travass [mailto:mtravass@t...]
                      > > Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 11:11 AM
                      > > To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Subject: RE: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION
                      > > Hi Sanjay,
                      > >
                      > > This is regarding your comment that Mandi should be in a Kendra in
                      > the
                      > > Navamsa to determine the lost horoscopy.
                      > >
                      > > What about a chart where the birth details are known and Mandi is
                      > not in a
                      > > Kendra to the Navamsa Lagna.
                      > >
                      > > How do we reconcile this?
                      > >
                      > > Would appreciate your remarks,
                      > >
                      > > Mike
                      > >
                      > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > From: Sanjay Rath [mailto:guruji@s...]
                      > > Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 12:32 AM
                      > > To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Subject: RE: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Jaya Jagannatha
                      > > Dear Dhira Krsna
                      > >
                      > > I am still having the problem recoinciling Gulika Kala with Gulika
                      > and
                      > > Mandi. If the Kala is to follow Saturn then how can Gulika be in
                      > the body
                      > > (time or Kala) of Saturn? If Gulika is different from Gulika Kala
                      > then alone
                      > > can it be the beginning of Saturn. Prasna Marga takes Gulika as
                      > Mandi (there
                      > > is a confusion of terms over there) as has been recorded by
                      > translator Dr B
                      > > V Raman. On the other hand lost horoscopy requires Mandi to be in a
                      > kendra
                      > > from navamsa lagna and thus this is used for the purpose. But it is
                      > clear
                      > > from the various texts that they are different - one that gives
                      > poison to
                      > > the native and the other that shows what poiso he gives to the
                      > world.
                      > >
                      > > Posyaputra yogas have to do more with the eunuch planets not giving
                      > > children. You have a good point there.
                      > >
                      > > Visti changes the webpages. In fact the srijagannath.org site is
                      > being
                      > > revamped and you will soon have some webspace for not only the
                      > primary page
                      > > but also to upload lessons etc that you wish.
                      > >
                      > > It is stated that Mandi and Gulika were like two spots that have
                      > been
                      > > spotted once by astronomers. If we can get those data then we can
                      > confirm
                      > > the calculations. Any effort in this direction will be most
                      > beneficial for
                      > > all of us.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > With best wishes and warm regards,
                      > > Sanjay Rath
                      > > * * *
                      > > Sri Jagannath CenterR
                      > > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road
                      > > New Delhi 110060, India
                      > > http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162
                      > > * * *
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > >-----Original Message-----
                      > > >From: Dhira Krsna BCS [mailto:Dhira.Krsna.BCS@p...]
                      > > >Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 2:31 AM
                      > > >To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                      > > >Subject: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >Dear Sanjay Rath,
                      > > >
                      > > >Hare Rama Krsna!
                      > > >
                      > > >>For example, the son of Saturn called Gulika is responsible for
                      > our
                      > > >>birth and plays a crucial role in adhana (conception time
                      > > >calculation)
                      > > >>as we are born due to our sins (Saturn) and Gulika is the poison
                      > we
                      > > >>must consume in this life as a burning for our sins.
                      > > >
                      > > >The verse in BPHS mentions Mandi for this calculation of
                      > > >adhana. Here you are speaking of Gulika. Do you now accept
                      > > >Mandi and Gulika to be one and the same? If you could tell me
                      > > >a little about the story of Mandi and/or Gulika's birth to
                      > > >Shani, that would be very much appreciated. Btw, why is Mandi
                      > > >also causing pasyaputra yoga (obtaining a child not one's own)
                      > > >when he aspects 5th house or 5th lord being in a sign of Budha
                      > > >or Shani, along with Shani? Is that indicating a curse from past
                      > life?
                      > > >
                      > > >I guess there might be some pasyaputra yoga in my chart as
                      > > >well. And a last question: could you change my chart on the
                      > > >guru's webpage to the time of 10:51:00 and with my ayanamsa
                      > > >47:06 less than Lahiri, if it's not asked too much?
                      > > >
                      > > >Thank you.
                      > > >
                      > > >Yours,
                      > > >Dhira Krsna dasa,
                      > > >Jyotishi
                      > > >http://www.radhadesh.com
                      > > >http://www.geocities.com/dvdd1008/Jyotisha.html
                      > > >http://srijagannath.org/education/dhira_krsna_das.html
                      > > >
                      > > >
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                    • Michael Travass
                      Thank you very much Sanjay. Let us take the case where Mandi and Gullika are located in the 11th bhava from Lagna which also happens to be the AL in Rashi
                      Message 10 of 12 , Mar 21, 2005

                        Thank you very much Sanjay.

                         

                        Let us take the case where Mandi and Gullika are located in the 11th bhava from Lagna which also happens to be the AL in Rashi chart.

                         

                        From the BPHS we know that both these chaya Grahas give good effects in the 11th bhava but does it mean that the person birth is to give and receive poison from this world. In this case would it be apparent or actual and how will this manifest?

                         

                        Please comment.

                         

                        Warm regards,

                         

                        Mike  

                         

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Sanjay Rath [mailto:guruji@...]
                        Sent:
                        Monday, March 21, 2005 8:31 AM
                        To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION

                         

                        Jaya Jagannatha

                        Dear Mike

                         

                        Saturn is the planet that symbolises our sins and causes rebirth (perhaps that's why Saturn get digbala or directional strength in 7th house - none other does. this is the house of our desires - kaama). So Saturn is intricately linked to rebirth and is the key planet used for calculating the adhana i.e. conception charts. Mandi and Gulika are the children of Saturn and all chidren of planets are related to the significations of the planet. Mandi and Gulika symbolise the poison we gave to others and that we receive from others - its a two way traffic. You will find this two way traffic in all walks of life including this list where people are always trying to *out do* others in a competitive dog eat dog world.

                         

                        Most westerners cannot understand this thing about India as to why do our people *bite* each other in public. Its not the fault of the people but that of an intense system of competition that as been created after *independance* due to the position of diabolical Rahu in the ascendant of India aspecting the 5th house (Indian population/public) and 7th house (foreign relations) and 9th house (policy). Reforms have started and while the government has reformed itself considerably with red tape gone etc, the people of India have yet to reform. you can see this in this list and many other forum. The exchanges are very *Mandi-Gulika* type where one Indian throws poison on another which is a *Mandi* generated action and then somewhere in this universe the karma has to rebound, and this rebound is *Gulika*...so Gulika is the same as Mandi but is inward or towards the native while Gulika is outward.

                         

                        Many people say that they are the same, to which I say yes they are in nature but Prabhupada and other saints have emphasied on this rebound of karma which explains the Mandi-Gulika syndrome and the fact that although they are similar, they are different in action.

                         

                        Now it is clear that *Mandi* alone represents the bad karma *we do (our action)* towards others. So we are to be reborn to face this karma and hence Mandi plays a significant role in our re-incarnation.

                         

                        I hope someone can give Prabhupada's tale of the widow's of Vrindavan.

                         

                        If there is one common thread we find in all great saints be it Jesus, Buddha or Shankara, it is just one tale 'get out of this Mandi-Gulika syndrome' by forgiving, forgetting and forging ahead'. The only answer to all the Gulika we get in life is AHIMSA. Hope this helps Mike.

                         

                        With best wishes and warm regards,

                        Sanjay Rath

                        * * *

                        Sri Jagannath Center®

                        15B Gangaram Hospital Road

                        New Delhi 110060, India

                        http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162

                        * * *

                         

                         


                        From: Michael Travass [mailto:mtravass@...]
                        Sent:
                        Sunday, March 20, 2005 10:29 PM
                        To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION

                        HI Sanjay,

                         

                        Wow…brilliant…

                         

                        Is Mandi anyway related to past Karmas?

                         

                        The logic being that we are born to expunge the Karmas from our past and the sufferings that the world brings on us in this present life is related to Mandi.

                         

                        Please comment.

                         

                        Mike

                         

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Sanjay Rath [mailto:guruji@...]
                        Sent:
                        Sunday, March 20, 2005 2:25 AM
                        To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION

                         

                         

                         

                        Jaya Jagannatha

                        Dear Mike

                        Then the chart was never meant to be lost. If the birth details got lost then it can only be because mandi occupied a kendra in navamsa and had a strong influence on the lagna to cause such a loss of birth details.

                        With best wishes and warm regards,

                        Sanjay Rath

                        * * *

                        Sri Jagannath Center®

                        15B Gangaram Hospital Road

                        New Delhi 110060, India

                        http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162

                        * * *

                         

                         


                        From: Michael Travass [mailto:mtravass@...]
                        Sent:
                        Sunday, March 20, 2005 11:11 AM
                        To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION

                        Hi Sanjay,

                         

                        This is regarding your comment that Mandi should be in a Kendra in the Navamsa to determine the lost horoscopy.

                         

                        What about a chart where the birth details are known and Mandi is not in a Kendra to the Navamsa Lagna.

                         

                        How do we reconcile this?

                         

                        Would appreciate your remarks,

                         

                        Mike

                         

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Sanjay Rath [mailto:guruji@...]
                        Sent:
                        Sunday, March 20, 2005 12:32 AM
                        To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION

                         



                        Jaya Jagannatha
                        Dear Dhira Krsna

                        I am still having the problem recoinciling Gulika Kala with Gulika and
                        Mandi. If the Kala is to follow Saturn then how can Gulika be in the body
                        (time or Kala) of Saturn? If Gulika is different from Gulika Kala then alone
                        can it be the beginning of Saturn. Prasna Marga takes Gulika as Mandi (there
                        is a confusion of terms over there) as has been recorded by translator Dr B
                        V Raman. On the other hand lost horoscopy requires Mandi to be in a kendra
                        from navamsa lagna and thus this is used for the purpose. But it is clear
                        from the various texts that they are different - one that gives poison to
                        the native and the other that shows what poiso he gives to the world.

                        Posyaputra yogas have to do more with the eunuch planets not giving
                        children. You have a good point there.

                        Visti changes the webpages. In fact the srijagannath.org site is being
                        revamped and you will soon have some webspace for not only the primary page
                        but also to upload lessons etc that you wish.

                        It is stated that Mandi and Gulika were like two spots that have been
                        spotted once by astronomers. If we can get those data then we can confirm
                        the calculations. Any effort in this direction will be most beneficial for
                        all of us.


                        With best wishes and warm regards,
                        Sanjay Rath
                        * * *
                        Sri Jagannath CenterR
                        15B
                        Gangaram Hospital Road
                        New Delhi 110060, India
                        http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162
                        * * *


                        >-----Original Message-----
                        >From: Dhira Krsna BCS [mailto:Dhira.Krsna.BCS@...]
                        >Sent:
                        Sunday, March 20, 2005 2:31 AM
                        >To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
                        >Subject: [vedic-astrology] RE MANDI CALCULATION
                        >
                        >
                        >Dear Sanjay Rath,
                        >
                        >Hare Rama Krsna!
                        >
                        >>For example, the son of Saturn called Gulika is responsible for our
                        >>birth and plays a crucial role in adhana (conception time
                        >calculation)
                        >>as we are born due to our sins (Saturn) and Gulika is the poison we
                        >>must consume in this life as a burning for our sins.
                        >
                        >The verse in BPHS mentions Mandi for this calculation of
                        >adhana. Here you are speaking of Gulika. Do you now accept
                        >Mandi and Gulika to be one and the same? If you could tell me
                        >a little about the story of Mandi and/or Gulika's birth to
                        >Shani, that would be very much appreciated. Btw, why is Mandi
                        >also causing pasyaputra yoga (obtaining a child not one's own)
                        >when he aspects 5th house or 5th lord being in a sign of Budha
                        >or Shani, along with Shani? Is that indicating a curse from past life?
                        >
                        >I guess there might be some pasyaputra yoga in my chart as
                        >well. And a last question: could you change my chart on the
                        >guru's webpage to the time of
                        10:51:00 and with my ayanamsa
                        >47:06 less than Lahiri, if it's not asked too much?
                        >
                        >Thank you.
                        >
                        >Yours,
                        >Dhira Krsna dasa,
                        >Jyotishi
                        >http://www.radhadesh.com
                        >http://www.geocities.com/dvdd1008/Jyotisha.html
                        >http://srijagannath.org/education/dhira_krsna_das.html
                        >
                        >
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                      • Dhira Krsna BCS
                        Dear Sanjay Rath, ... I would like to add that this competition spirit is not a modern Indian feat, we had this in history already around Caitanya s time when
                        Message 11 of 12 , Mar 23, 2005
                          Dear Sanjay Rath,

                          > Its not the fault of the people but that of an intense system of
                          >competition that as been created after *independance* due to the position
                          >of diabolical Rahu in the ascendant of India aspecting the 5th house
                          >(Indian population/public) and 7th house (foreign relations) and 9th
                          >house (policy).

                          I would like to add that this competition spirit is not a modern Indian
                          feat, we had this in history already around Caitanya's time when one
                          pandit used to defeat another in public with his knowledge of shaastra,
                          thus using it as a sastra (weapon). I guess this tradition is based on a
                          long ancient culture.

                          In a broader sense, this competition spirit, as you said, afflicts the
                          entire kali yuga world we live in. But there's nothing wrong with it as
                          long as it is done in a cultural way and with respect for each other.

                          I wrote to you earlier regarding the Saturn-Mandi and napumsaka planets
                          resulting in denial of children. Regarding my wife's chart, she has 5th
                          house in Capricorn and aspected in rasi dristi by Saturn-Mercury alongwith
                          Sun and Moon. In her Saptamsa she has 9th lord Rahu in sign of Gemini with
                          Merc and aspected (graha dristi) by Retrograde Saturn from Aries. Would
                          you say this is a yoga for adoption? I have something similar in my
                          Saptamsa (not so clear with Lahiri, but it comes out better with my
                          ayanamsa).

                          What do you think?

                          Yours,
                          Dhira Krsna dasa,
                          http://www.radhadesh.com
                          http://www.geocities.com/dvdd1008/Jyotisha.html
                          http://srijagannath.org/education/dhira_krsna_das.html
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