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RE: [valleyveg] Norm Phelps: In Praise of the New Welfarism

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  • Jack Norris
    I should also note that mentioning Phelp s essay in a semi-public forum such as this one, often inspires someone who does not agree with Phelp s essay to
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 18, 2009
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      I should also note that mentioning Phelp’s essay in a semi-public forum such as this one, often inspires someone who does not agree with Phelp’s essay to respond. I will not be defending my view of Phelp’s essay if such a post is made.

       

      Jack

       

      From: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:valleyveg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jack Norris
      Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:59 AM
      To: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [valleyveg] Norm Phelps: In Praise of the New Welfarism

      I agree Laurette. I saw him give that speech and was very impressed. You could have heard a pin drop in the auditorium as he presented it, too – the room was so engrossed in what he was saying.

      I thought he did a great job of summarizing the practical realities that we are facing in trying to persuade society to stop supporting the use of animals for food.

      Jack Norris, Registered Dietitian

      Vegan Outreach

      VeganOutreach.org

      VeganHealth.org

       

      Sign up for my veg nutrition blog at:

      JackNorrisRD.com

       

       

       

      From: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:valleyveg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of laurettetimms
      Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:53 AM
      To: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [valleyveg] Norm Phelps: In Praise of the New Welfarism

       

       

      The following is the transcript of a speech that Norm Phelps gave at an animal rights conference. His insights are as important and thought provoking as they are controversial.

      http://www.evana.org/index.php?id=51397&lang=en

    • Victor Tsou
      Thank you for posting this transcript, Laurette. In the talk, Phelps repeats a common misunderstanding when he says that new welfarists and abolitionists
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 23, 2009
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        Thank you for posting this transcript, Laurette. In the talk, Phelps
        repeats a common misunderstanding when he says that "new welfarists" and
        "abolitionists" differ only in strategy, and not in goals. As I
        understand it, the goal of the new welfarists is to reduce the amount of
        suffering in the world through whatever means possible, whether it is
        through welfare reform or people choosing vegetarianism. The goal of
        animal rights-based abolitionists is to eliminate all non-human animal
        use through educating the public on the property status of non-human
        animals. So the goal is actually different: one focuses on suffering,
        the other on use.*

        This is a subtle but important distinction and has very real
        implications. Phelps talks about Humane Farm Animal Care, the
        HSUS-linked certification program that lets people know where they can
        buy** humane chicken meat, eggs, pork, wool, and other products made by
        and from non-human animals. That Phelps objects only to the use of the
        word "humane" as opposed to the endorsement of breeding, raising, and
        killing non-human animals for human use demonstrates the difference
        between the goals of reducing suffering and ending use. I think most
        ethical vegetarians don't agree with the breeding, raising, and killing
        of non-human animals no matter how they were treated; after all, isn't
        that why we're vegetarian rather than conscientious carnivores?

        You may be interested to learn about anti-oppression veganism. This is
        another way of understanding ethical vegetarianism that avoids the new
        welfare/abolitionist debate and is a return to the historical roots of
        veganism. You might find that it fits very naturally with your intuitive
        understanding of ethical vegetarianism. If you're interested in learning
        more about it, I recently posted a talk about animal welfare, animal
        rights, and anti-oppression veganism online:

        http://loveallbeings.org/blog/an-introduction-to-veganism/

        As always, I welcome discussion of these issues with all who are interested.

        Warmly,
        Victor

        * Of course, individuals certainly vary in their motivations and
        somebody who identifies, for example, as a "new welfarist" might not
        base their advocacy upon reducing suffering. However, Phelps seems to be
        speaking specifically about groups and certain more well known
        individuals, so that is what I am writing about here.
        ** Visit http://www.certifiedhumane.org/resellers/CA and
        http://www.certifiedhumane.org/about/whoiscertified.html for a list of
        stores and producers.

        -----------
        The following is the transcript of a speech that Norm Phelps gave at an
        animal rights conference. His insights are as important and thought
        provoking as they are controversial.

        http://www.evana.org/index.php?id=51397&lang=en

        --
        The Vegan Ideal: http://veganideal.org/
        Veganism as Anti-Oppression: http://loveallbeings.org/
      • laurettetimms
        Same here. I won t be defending my view of Phelp s essay either. It speaks for itself.
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 23, 2009
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          Same here. I won't be defending my view of Phelp's essay either. It speaks for itself.

          --- In valleyveg@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Norris" <jacknorris@...> wrote:
          >
          > I should also note that mentioning Phelp's essay in a semi-public forum such
          > as this one, often inspires someone who does not agree with Phelp's essay to
          > respond. I will not be defending my view of Phelp's essay if such a post is
          > made.
          >
          >
          >
          > Jack
          >
          >
          >
          > From: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:valleyveg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          > Of Jack Norris
          > Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:59 AM
          > To: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: RE: [valleyveg] Norm Phelps: In Praise of the New Welfarism
          >
          > I agree Laurette. I saw him give that speech and was very impressed. You
          > could have heard a pin drop in the auditorium as he presented it, too - the
          > room was so engrossed in what he was saying.
          >
          > I thought he did a great job of summarizing the practical realities that we
          > are facing in trying to persuade society to stop supporting the use of
          > animals for food.
          >
          > Jack Norris, Registered Dietitian
          >
          > Vegan Outreach
          >
          > VeganOutreach.org <http://www.veganoutreach.org/>
          >
          > VeganHealth.org <http://www.veganhealth.org/>
          >
          >
          >
          > Sign up for my veg nutrition blog at:
          >
          > JackNorrisRD.com <http://jacknorrisrd.com/>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > From: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:valleyveg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          > Of laurettetimms
          > Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:53 AM
          > To: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [valleyveg] Norm Phelps: In Praise of the New Welfarism
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > The following is the transcript of a speech that Norm Phelps gave at an
          > animal rights conference. His insights are as important and thought
          > provoking as they are controversial.
          >
          > http://www.evana.org/index.php?id=51397
          > <http://www.evana.org/index.php?id=51397&lang=en> &lang=en
          >
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