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RE: [valleyveg] Norm Phelps: In Praise of the New Welfarism

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  • Jack Norris
    I agree Laurette. I saw him give that speech and was very impressed. You could have heard a pin drop in the auditorium as he presented it, too - the room was
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 18, 2009
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      I agree Laurette. I saw him give that speech and was very impressed. You could have heard a pin drop in the auditorium as he presented it, too – the room was so engrossed in what he was saying.

       

      I thought he did a great job of summarizing the practical realities that we are facing in trying to persuade society to stop supporting the use of animals for food.

       

      Jack Norris, Registered Dietitian

      Vegan Outreach

      VeganOutreach.org

      VeganHealth.org

       

      Sign up for my veg nutrition blog at:

      JackNorrisRD.com

       

       

       

      From: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:valleyveg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of laurettetimms
      Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:53 AM
      To: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [valleyveg] Norm Phelps: In Praise of the New Welfarism

       

       

      The following is the transcript of a speech that Norm Phelps gave at an animal rights conference. His insights are as important and thought provoking as they are controversial.

      http://www.evana.org/index.php?id=51397&lang=en

    • Jack Norris
      I should also note that mentioning Phelp s essay in a semi-public forum such as this one, often inspires someone who does not agree with Phelp s essay to
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 18, 2009
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        I should also note that mentioning Phelp’s essay in a semi-public forum such as this one, often inspires someone who does not agree with Phelp’s essay to respond. I will not be defending my view of Phelp’s essay if such a post is made.

         

        Jack

         

        From: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:valleyveg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jack Norris
        Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:59 AM
        To: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [valleyveg] Norm Phelps: In Praise of the New Welfarism

        I agree Laurette. I saw him give that speech and was very impressed. You could have heard a pin drop in the auditorium as he presented it, too – the room was so engrossed in what he was saying.

        I thought he did a great job of summarizing the practical realities that we are facing in trying to persuade society to stop supporting the use of animals for food.

        Jack Norris, Registered Dietitian

        Vegan Outreach

        VeganOutreach.org

        VeganHealth.org

         

        Sign up for my veg nutrition blog at:

        JackNorrisRD.com

         

         

         

        From: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:valleyveg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of laurettetimms
        Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:53 AM
        To: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [valleyveg] Norm Phelps: In Praise of the New Welfarism

         

         

        The following is the transcript of a speech that Norm Phelps gave at an animal rights conference. His insights are as important and thought provoking as they are controversial.

        http://www.evana.org/index.php?id=51397&lang=en

      • Victor Tsou
        Thank you for posting this transcript, Laurette. In the talk, Phelps repeats a common misunderstanding when he says that new welfarists and abolitionists
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 23, 2009
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          Thank you for posting this transcript, Laurette. In the talk, Phelps
          repeats a common misunderstanding when he says that "new welfarists" and
          "abolitionists" differ only in strategy, and not in goals. As I
          understand it, the goal of the new welfarists is to reduce the amount of
          suffering in the world through whatever means possible, whether it is
          through welfare reform or people choosing vegetarianism. The goal of
          animal rights-based abolitionists is to eliminate all non-human animal
          use through educating the public on the property status of non-human
          animals. So the goal is actually different: one focuses on suffering,
          the other on use.*

          This is a subtle but important distinction and has very real
          implications. Phelps talks about Humane Farm Animal Care, the
          HSUS-linked certification program that lets people know where they can
          buy** humane chicken meat, eggs, pork, wool, and other products made by
          and from non-human animals. That Phelps objects only to the use of the
          word "humane" as opposed to the endorsement of breeding, raising, and
          killing non-human animals for human use demonstrates the difference
          between the goals of reducing suffering and ending use. I think most
          ethical vegetarians don't agree with the breeding, raising, and killing
          of non-human animals no matter how they were treated; after all, isn't
          that why we're vegetarian rather than conscientious carnivores?

          You may be interested to learn about anti-oppression veganism. This is
          another way of understanding ethical vegetarianism that avoids the new
          welfare/abolitionist debate and is a return to the historical roots of
          veganism. You might find that it fits very naturally with your intuitive
          understanding of ethical vegetarianism. If you're interested in learning
          more about it, I recently posted a talk about animal welfare, animal
          rights, and anti-oppression veganism online:

          http://loveallbeings.org/blog/an-introduction-to-veganism/

          As always, I welcome discussion of these issues with all who are interested.

          Warmly,
          Victor

          * Of course, individuals certainly vary in their motivations and
          somebody who identifies, for example, as a "new welfarist" might not
          base their advocacy upon reducing suffering. However, Phelps seems to be
          speaking specifically about groups and certain more well known
          individuals, so that is what I am writing about here.
          ** Visit http://www.certifiedhumane.org/resellers/CA and
          http://www.certifiedhumane.org/about/whoiscertified.html for a list of
          stores and producers.

          -----------
          The following is the transcript of a speech that Norm Phelps gave at an
          animal rights conference. His insights are as important and thought
          provoking as they are controversial.

          http://www.evana.org/index.php?id=51397&lang=en

          --
          The Vegan Ideal: http://veganideal.org/
          Veganism as Anti-Oppression: http://loveallbeings.org/
        • laurettetimms
          Same here. I won t be defending my view of Phelp s essay either. It speaks for itself.
          Message 4 of 5 , Dec 23, 2009
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            Same here. I won't be defending my view of Phelp's essay either. It speaks for itself.

            --- In valleyveg@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Norris" <jacknorris@...> wrote:
            >
            > I should also note that mentioning Phelp's essay in a semi-public forum such
            > as this one, often inspires someone who does not agree with Phelp's essay to
            > respond. I will not be defending my view of Phelp's essay if such a post is
            > made.
            >
            >
            >
            > Jack
            >
            >
            >
            > From: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:valleyveg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            > Of Jack Norris
            > Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:59 AM
            > To: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: RE: [valleyveg] Norm Phelps: In Praise of the New Welfarism
            >
            > I agree Laurette. I saw him give that speech and was very impressed. You
            > could have heard a pin drop in the auditorium as he presented it, too - the
            > room was so engrossed in what he was saying.
            >
            > I thought he did a great job of summarizing the practical realities that we
            > are facing in trying to persuade society to stop supporting the use of
            > animals for food.
            >
            > Jack Norris, Registered Dietitian
            >
            > Vegan Outreach
            >
            > VeganOutreach.org <http://www.veganoutreach.org/>
            >
            > VeganHealth.org <http://www.veganhealth.org/>
            >
            >
            >
            > Sign up for my veg nutrition blog at:
            >
            > JackNorrisRD.com <http://jacknorrisrd.com/>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > From: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:valleyveg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            > Of laurettetimms
            > Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:53 AM
            > To: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [valleyveg] Norm Phelps: In Praise of the New Welfarism
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > The following is the transcript of a speech that Norm Phelps gave at an
            > animal rights conference. His insights are as important and thought
            > provoking as they are controversial.
            >
            > http://www.evana.org/index.php?id=51397
            > <http://www.evana.org/index.php?id=51397&lang=en> &lang=en
            >
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