Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Norm Phelps: In Praise of the New Welfarism

Expand Messages
  • laurettetimms
    The following is the transcript of a speech that Norm Phelps gave at an animal rights conference. His insights are as important and thought provoking as they
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 18 9:52 AM
      The following is the transcript of a speech that Norm Phelps gave at an animal rights conference. His insights are as important and thought provoking as they are controversial.

      http://www.evana.org/index.php?id=51397&lang=en
    • Jack Norris
      I agree Laurette. I saw him give that speech and was very impressed. You could have heard a pin drop in the auditorium as he presented it, too - the room was
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 18 9:59 AM

        I agree Laurette. I saw him give that speech and was very impressed. You could have heard a pin drop in the auditorium as he presented it, too – the room was so engrossed in what he was saying.

         

        I thought he did a great job of summarizing the practical realities that we are facing in trying to persuade society to stop supporting the use of animals for food.

         

        Jack Norris, Registered Dietitian

        Vegan Outreach

        VeganOutreach.org

        VeganHealth.org

         

        Sign up for my veg nutrition blog at:

        JackNorrisRD.com

         

         

         

        From: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:valleyveg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of laurettetimms
        Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:53 AM
        To: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [valleyveg] Norm Phelps: In Praise of the New Welfarism

         

         

        The following is the transcript of a speech that Norm Phelps gave at an animal rights conference. His insights are as important and thought provoking as they are controversial.

        http://www.evana.org/index.php?id=51397&lang=en

      • Jack Norris
        I should also note that mentioning Phelp s essay in a semi-public forum such as this one, often inspires someone who does not agree with Phelp s essay to
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 18 10:12 AM

          I should also note that mentioning Phelp’s essay in a semi-public forum such as this one, often inspires someone who does not agree with Phelp’s essay to respond. I will not be defending my view of Phelp’s essay if such a post is made.

           

          Jack

           

          From: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:valleyveg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jack Norris
          Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:59 AM
          To: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [valleyveg] Norm Phelps: In Praise of the New Welfarism

          I agree Laurette. I saw him give that speech and was very impressed. You could have heard a pin drop in the auditorium as he presented it, too – the room was so engrossed in what he was saying.

          I thought he did a great job of summarizing the practical realities that we are facing in trying to persuade society to stop supporting the use of animals for food.

          Jack Norris, Registered Dietitian

          Vegan Outreach

          VeganOutreach.org

          VeganHealth.org

           

          Sign up for my veg nutrition blog at:

          JackNorrisRD.com

           

           

           

          From: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:valleyveg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of laurettetimms
          Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:53 AM
          To: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [valleyveg] Norm Phelps: In Praise of the New Welfarism

           

           

          The following is the transcript of a speech that Norm Phelps gave at an animal rights conference. His insights are as important and thought provoking as they are controversial.

          http://www.evana.org/index.php?id=51397&lang=en

        • Victor Tsou
          Thank you for posting this transcript, Laurette. In the talk, Phelps repeats a common misunderstanding when he says that new welfarists and abolitionists
          Message 4 of 5 , Dec 23 9:51 AM
            Thank you for posting this transcript, Laurette. In the talk, Phelps
            repeats a common misunderstanding when he says that "new welfarists" and
            "abolitionists" differ only in strategy, and not in goals. As I
            understand it, the goal of the new welfarists is to reduce the amount of
            suffering in the world through whatever means possible, whether it is
            through welfare reform or people choosing vegetarianism. The goal of
            animal rights-based abolitionists is to eliminate all non-human animal
            use through educating the public on the property status of non-human
            animals. So the goal is actually different: one focuses on suffering,
            the other on use.*

            This is a subtle but important distinction and has very real
            implications. Phelps talks about Humane Farm Animal Care, the
            HSUS-linked certification program that lets people know where they can
            buy** humane chicken meat, eggs, pork, wool, and other products made by
            and from non-human animals. That Phelps objects only to the use of the
            word "humane" as opposed to the endorsement of breeding, raising, and
            killing non-human animals for human use demonstrates the difference
            between the goals of reducing suffering and ending use. I think most
            ethical vegetarians don't agree with the breeding, raising, and killing
            of non-human animals no matter how they were treated; after all, isn't
            that why we're vegetarian rather than conscientious carnivores?

            You may be interested to learn about anti-oppression veganism. This is
            another way of understanding ethical vegetarianism that avoids the new
            welfare/abolitionist debate and is a return to the historical roots of
            veganism. You might find that it fits very naturally with your intuitive
            understanding of ethical vegetarianism. If you're interested in learning
            more about it, I recently posted a talk about animal welfare, animal
            rights, and anti-oppression veganism online:

            http://loveallbeings.org/blog/an-introduction-to-veganism/

            As always, I welcome discussion of these issues with all who are interested.

            Warmly,
            Victor

            * Of course, individuals certainly vary in their motivations and
            somebody who identifies, for example, as a "new welfarist" might not
            base their advocacy upon reducing suffering. However, Phelps seems to be
            speaking specifically about groups and certain more well known
            individuals, so that is what I am writing about here.
            ** Visit http://www.certifiedhumane.org/resellers/CA and
            http://www.certifiedhumane.org/about/whoiscertified.html for a list of
            stores and producers.

            -----------
            The following is the transcript of a speech that Norm Phelps gave at an
            animal rights conference. His insights are as important and thought
            provoking as they are controversial.

            http://www.evana.org/index.php?id=51397&lang=en

            --
            The Vegan Ideal: http://veganideal.org/
            Veganism as Anti-Oppression: http://loveallbeings.org/
          • laurettetimms
            Same here. I won t be defending my view of Phelp s essay either. It speaks for itself.
            Message 5 of 5 , Dec 23 7:47 PM
              Same here. I won't be defending my view of Phelp's essay either. It speaks for itself.

              --- In valleyveg@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Norris" <jacknorris@...> wrote:
              >
              > I should also note that mentioning Phelp's essay in a semi-public forum such
              > as this one, often inspires someone who does not agree with Phelp's essay to
              > respond. I will not be defending my view of Phelp's essay if such a post is
              > made.
              >
              >
              >
              > Jack
              >
              >
              >
              > From: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:valleyveg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
              > Of Jack Norris
              > Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:59 AM
              > To: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: RE: [valleyveg] Norm Phelps: In Praise of the New Welfarism
              >
              > I agree Laurette. I saw him give that speech and was very impressed. You
              > could have heard a pin drop in the auditorium as he presented it, too - the
              > room was so engrossed in what he was saying.
              >
              > I thought he did a great job of summarizing the practical realities that we
              > are facing in trying to persuade society to stop supporting the use of
              > animals for food.
              >
              > Jack Norris, Registered Dietitian
              >
              > Vegan Outreach
              >
              > VeganOutreach.org <http://www.veganoutreach.org/>
              >
              > VeganHealth.org <http://www.veganhealth.org/>
              >
              >
              >
              > Sign up for my veg nutrition blog at:
              >
              > JackNorrisRD.com <http://jacknorrisrd.com/>
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > From: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:valleyveg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
              > Of laurettetimms
              > Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:53 AM
              > To: valleyveg@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [valleyveg] Norm Phelps: In Praise of the New Welfarism
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > The following is the transcript of a speech that Norm Phelps gave at an
              > animal rights conference. His insights are as important and thought
              > provoking as they are controversial.
              >
              > http://www.evana.org/index.php?id=51397
              > <http://www.evana.org/index.php?id=51397&lang=en> &lang=en
              >
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.