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Re: [vacpot] Re: Filtron cold water coffee extractor

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  • Ian Bersten
    Of course I have tried coffee made with cold water. Fact - coffee extraction is proportional to surface area of particles. Coarse ground coffee means poor
    Message 1 of 20 , Aug 1, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Of course I have tried coffee made with cold water.

      Fact - coffee extraction is proportional to surface area of particles.
      Coarse ground coffee means poor extraction.
      The lower temperature means that some components will never dissolve.
      The combination of the two means weak extraction.

      It is my guess that if you took the wet grounds and dried them out in an
      oven and then reground them fine that you would get a better cup of coffee.
      I am not sure with coffee but I am sure with tea - I have done the
      experiment.

      Please make the following experiment

      take come coffee - grind it coarse and make with cold water.
      Take the same coffee and grind it espresso grind - pour boiling water
      over it and leave for 30-60 seconds and compare.

      Ian


      On 2/08/2013 9:45 AM, Giuseppe Marrari wrote:
      >
      > Never tried cold press huh?
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: "Ian Bersten" <ian@... <mailto:ian%40helian.net.au>>
      > Sent: ‎8/‎1/‎2013 6:27 PM
      > To: "vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>"
      > <vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>>
      > Subject: Re: [vacpot] Re: Filtron cold water coffee extractor
      >
      > I always thought the idea of making a cup of coffee was to extract the
      > flavour. Why anyone would want to use a brewer that used cold water and
      > under-extracted is beyond me. If you seriously want to make weak
      > coffee, take a small amount of coffee, brew with hot water. If you want
      > to drink it cold, just let it cool.
      >
      > It just goes to prove that there is an inner urge to find new idols
      > within the cult of coffee - that there must be some other way to make a
      > cup of coffee that will in some unspecified way take us to coffee
      > Nirvana and impress all those around us who belong to another cult and
      > have manifestly failed to make a cup of coffee with a method that defies
      > comprehension.
      >
      > The rule is : if it defies comprehension it probably doesn't make good
      > coffee.
      > Good coffee is made following established and known principles.
      > 'Ian
      >
      > On 2/08/2013 7:40 AM, Larry Hollenberg wrote:
      > >
      > > Leonard,
      > >
      > > Google Filtron instructions an you will find quite a number of sites
      > > that either have it or discuss it.
      > >
      > > Larry
      > >
      > > ________________________________
      > > From: eccopronto <lennylenny@... <mailto:lennylenny%40me.com>
      > <mailto:lennylenny%40me.com>>
      > > To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 3:08 PM
      > > Subject: [vacpot] Re: Filtron cold water coffee extractor
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > I have one of these units too. I have it displayed in a great spot in
      > > my kitchen. It's sort of an amazing unit to display.
      > >
      > > BUT, I do not have a clue how to use an old filtron. It has cone
      > > shaped filters, cloth filters, a screw on filter...
      > >
      > > If anyone could post a blow-by-blow list of instructions, I would be
      > > very happy and grateful. In the meanwhile, I will continue to look,
      > > but not actually use it!
      > >
      > > (I like to use my stuff!)
      > >
      > > Thanks
      > >
      > > Best
      > > Leonard
      > >
      > > --- In vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>, <rsburritt@...>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hi Larry, I have a filtron (one of the newer models) that I picked
      > > up in a thrift store and have used it several times. The brewed
      > > product is pretty good. It is not the same as vacpot coffee, but it's
      > > also a pleasant difference from drip coffee. I would say that the cold
      > > brewing process gives the beverage a mildly exotic flavor. One thing
      > > that I've noticed lately is that cold-brewing seems to be coming more
      > > into style, or at least with some of the designer coffees that I've
      > > picked up in the store and looked at the bag, they recommend "cold
      > > brewing for full flavor". Interesting.
      > > >
      > > > When my parents when to Hawaii a couple of years ago, they returned
      > > with some coffee that called for cold brewing. I brewed it cold in the
      > > French Press and it came out very good.
      > > >
      > > > The new filtron units are expensive and not very aesthetic (being
      > > made out of dark brown plastic, with a clear polycarbonate
      > > wine-decanter style carafe for the brewed coffee), but the older glass
      > > ones like Ron picked up are really worth the money just as
      > > collectables and due to their beauty with the glass and different
      > > colors/varieties of bakelite handles and parts, etc. I wouldn't have
      > > been willing to pay the $30-$40 for the new one just to sample this
      > > method, but if you find one second hand at a cheap price, then in my
      > > opinion it's worth the few bucks.
      > > >
      > > > Also, there was an "interim" model that came out around the
      > > 50's-60's which was after the glass models, but before the current
      > > models. That model is made of a clear plastic upper with (I believe) a
      > > glass lower pot. They are not ugly like the brown plastic units, but
      > > they do not have the same character as the vintage glass models.
      > > >
      > > > Roland
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > From: Larry Hollenberg
      > > > To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 6:46 PM
      > > > Subject: Re: [vacpot] Filtron cold water coffee extractor
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Ron,
      > > >
      > > > I haven't got the answer you want, but would like you to let us know
      > > how you find the coffee it makes? I have always wondered about them
      > > and I think that some time ago Roland was experimenting with one and
      > > found it pretty good. We recently took a rail trip and in the sleepers
      > > they had gone from a drip style pot that made quite good coffee to a
      > > liquid type that infused with hot water, which I think is a similar
      > > idea. I would be interested in some other opinions of this method?
      > > >
      > > > Larry
      > > >
      > > > --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Ron McCray <stebchem@...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > From: Ron McCray <stebchem@...>
      > > > > Subject: [vacpot] Filtron cold water coffee extractor
      > > > > To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > > > Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 6:31 PM
      > > > > We recently purchased one of the older, all-glass models
      > > > > of the Filtron coffee extractor--the one with the lovely
      > > > > butterscotch-colored handles. It came with a used filter
      > > > > pad and, of course, we want to replace it with a new
      > > > > filter. We see Filtron filter pads offered by various
      > > > > coffee-related websites, but we're not sure they will
      > > > > fit this older model of Filtron. Does anybody in our group
      > > > > have experience with Filtrons (especially the older models
      > > > > like ours) and have any advice about obtaining new filter
      > > > > pads?
      > > > > The Filtron company is still in business, but they ignored
      > > > > our email in which we asked the question being posed here.
      > > > >
      > > > > Do the new Filtron filter pads fit the older model
      > > > > extractors?
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      >
      > --
      > www.chaicoffski.com.au
      > Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
      > Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >


      --
      www.chaicoffski.com.au
      Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
      Make tea with 160% more antioxidants



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Dave Bellware
      What my experiments with cold brewing have proved to me is that no matter how much I think I know about coffee and coffee preparation, the book is by no means
      Message 2 of 20 , Aug 1, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        What my experiments with cold brewing have proved to me is that no matter
        how much I think I know about coffee and coffee preparation, the book is by
        no means closed. As for the inefficiency of large particle size and the
        resultant smaller surface area, the greatly increased steep time of cold
        brewing negates much of that inefficiency, in my opinion. I've known that
        from comparing short-steeped, finely ground vacuum brews to much
        longer-steeped drip brews with coffee that's much more coarsely ground.
        Both are great but they are not the same.

        I can't remember where I saw it, but I've seen a chart that made some
        effort to graph the effects of steep time against particle size of the
        coffee.

        The point at which my thinking gets roadblocked is when I start to think
        that the finest possible grind, such as a true Turkish grind, should or
        does result in 100% of the ground coffee actually suspended in the final
        brewed result. I don't happen to believe that such method results in the
        best taste for my personal preferences. If I presume that I don't want ALL
        of the coffee bean to be imparted to the coffee I drink, then that means to
        me that each and every variable can be manipulated to produce pleasing
        results, and that there are absolutely no hard and fast rules for the best
        results.

        Dave Bellware


        On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 8:26 PM, Ian Bersten <ian@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > Of course I have tried coffee made with cold water.
        >
        > Fact - coffee extraction is proportional to surface area of particles.
        > Coarse ground coffee means poor extraction.
        > The lower temperature means that some components will never dissolve.
        > The combination of the two means weak extraction.
        >
        > It is my guess that if you took the wet grounds and dried them out in an
        > oven and then reground them fine that you would get a better cup of coffee.
        > I am not sure with coffee but I am sure with tea - I have done the
        > experiment.
        >
        > Please make the following experiment
        >
        > take come coffee - grind it coarse and make with cold water.
        > Take the same coffee and grind it espresso grind - pour boiling water
        > over it and leave for 30-60 seconds and compare.
        >
        > Ian
        >
        >
        > On 2/08/2013 9:45 AM, Giuseppe Marrari wrote:
        > >
        > > Never tried cold press huh?
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: "Ian Bersten" <ian@... <mailto:ian%40helian.net.au>>
        > > Sent: 8/1/2013 6:27 PM
        > > To: "vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
        > > <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>"
        > > <vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
        > > <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>>
        > > Subject: Re: [vacpot] Re: Filtron cold water coffee extractor
        > >
        > > I always thought the idea of making a cup of coffee was to extract the
        > > flavour. Why anyone would want to use a brewer that used cold water and
        > > under-extracted is beyond me. If you seriously want to make weak
        > > coffee, take a small amount of coffee, brew with hot water. If you want
        > > to drink it cold, just let it cool.
        > >
        > > It just goes to prove that there is an inner urge to find new idols
        > > within the cult of coffee - that there must be some other way to make a
        > > cup of coffee that will in some unspecified way take us to coffee
        > > Nirvana and impress all those around us who belong to another cult and
        > > have manifestly failed to make a cup of coffee with a method that defies
        > > comprehension.
        > >
        > > The rule is : if it defies comprehension it probably doesn't make good
        > > coffee.
        > > Good coffee is made following established and known principles.
        > > 'Ian
        > >
        > > On 2/08/2013 7:40 AM, Larry Hollenberg wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Leonard,
        > > >
        > > > Google Filtron instructions an you will find quite a number of sites
        > > > that either have it or discuss it.
        > > >
        > > > Larry
        > > >
        > > > ________________________________
        > > > From: eccopronto <lennylenny@... <mailto:lennylenny%40me.com>
        > > <mailto:lennylenny%40me.com>>
        > > > To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
        > > <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > > <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > > Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 3:08 PM
        > > > Subject: [vacpot] Re: Filtron cold water coffee extractor
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > I have one of these units too. I have it displayed in a great spot in
        > > > my kitchen. It's sort of an amazing unit to display.
        > > >
        > > > BUT, I do not have a clue how to use an old filtron. It has cone
        > > > shaped filters, cloth filters, a screw on filter...
        > > >
        > > > If anyone could post a blow-by-blow list of instructions, I would be
        > > > very happy and grateful. In the meanwhile, I will continue to look,
        > > > but not actually use it!
        > > >
        > > > (I like to use my stuff!)
        > > >
        > > > Thanks
        > > >
        > > > Best
        > > > Leonard
        > > >
        > > > --- In vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
        > > <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > > <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>, <rsburritt@...>
        > > > wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Hi Larry, I have a filtron (one of the newer models) that I picked
        > > > up in a thrift store and have used it several times. The brewed
        > > > product is pretty good. It is not the same as vacpot coffee, but it's
        > > > also a pleasant difference from drip coffee. I would say that the cold
        > > > brewing process gives the beverage a mildly exotic flavor. One thing
        > > > that I've noticed lately is that cold-brewing seems to be coming more
        > > > into style, or at least with some of the designer coffees that I've
        > > > picked up in the store and looked at the bag, they recommend "cold
        > > > brewing for full flavor". Interesting.
        > > > >
        > > > > When my parents when to Hawaii a couple of years ago, they returned
        > > > with some coffee that called for cold brewing. I brewed it cold in the
        > > > French Press and it came out very good.
        > > > >
        > > > > The new filtron units are expensive and not very aesthetic (being
        > > > made out of dark brown plastic, with a clear polycarbonate
        > > > wine-decanter style carafe for the brewed coffee), but the older glass
        > > > ones like Ron picked up are really worth the money just as
        > > > collectables and due to their beauty with the glass and different
        > > > colors/varieties of bakelite handles and parts, etc. I wouldn't have
        > > > been willing to pay the $30-$40 for the new one just to sample this
        > > > method, but if you find one second hand at a cheap price, then in my
        > > > opinion it's worth the few bucks.
        > > > >
        > > > > Also, there was an "interim" model that came out around the
        > > > 50's-60's which was after the glass models, but before the current
        > > > models. That model is made of a clear plastic upper with (I believe) a
        > > > glass lower pot. They are not ugly like the brown plastic units, but
        > > > they do not have the same character as the vintage glass models.
        > > > >
        > > > > Roland
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > > > From: Larry Hollenberg
        > > > > To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
        > > <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > > <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 6:46 PM
        > > > > Subject: Re: [vacpot] Filtron cold water coffee extractor
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Ron,
        > > > >
        > > > > I haven't got the answer you want, but would like you to let us know
        > > > how you find the coffee it makes? I have always wondered about them
        > > > and I think that some time ago Roland was experimenting with one and
        > > > found it pretty good. We recently took a rail trip and in the sleepers
        > > > they had gone from a drip style pot that made quite good coffee to a
        > > > liquid type that infused with hot water, which I think is a similar
        > > > idea. I would be interested in some other opinions of this method?
        > > > >
        > > > > Larry
        > > > >
        > > > > --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Ron McCray <stebchem@...> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > > From: Ron McCray <stebchem@...>
        > > > > > Subject: [vacpot] Filtron cold water coffee extractor
        > > > > > To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
        > > <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > > <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > > > > Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 6:31 PM
        > > > > > We recently purchased one of the older, all-glass models
        > > > > > of the Filtron coffee extractor--the one with the lovely
        > > > > > butterscotch-colored handles. It came with a used filter
        > > > > > pad and, of course, we want to replace it with a new
        > > > > > filter. We see Filtron filter pads offered by various
        > > > > > coffee-related websites, but we're not sure they will
        > > > > > fit this older model of Filtron. Does anybody in our group
        > > > > > have experience with Filtrons (especially the older models
        > > > > > like ours) and have any advice about obtaining new filter
        > > > > > pads?
        > > > > > The Filtron company is still in business, but they ignored
        > > > > > our email in which we asked the question being posed here.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Do the new Filtron filter pads fit the older model
        > > > > > extractors?
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > --
        > > www.chaicoffski.com.au
        > > Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
        > > Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        >
        > --
        > www.chaicoffski.com.au
        > Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
        > Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ian Bersten
        There is an enormous difference between making Turkish coffee where heat is applied to boiling the coffee and pouring boiling water over coffee. The latter
        Message 3 of 20 , Aug 1, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          There is an enormous difference between making Turkish coffee where heat
          is applied to boiling the coffee and pouring boiling water over coffee.
          The latter never gets bitter until you apply more heat.

          Yes there is a difference between coffee steeped for longer times but
          the major factor is the grind particle size.

          I have had tests done by an approved lab that proves that you can get
          SCAA Goldcup standard with espresso grind coffee brewed for 30 seconds
          using 35% less coffee. Other methodds using coarser grind coffee need
          50% more coffee and longer - up to eight times - brewing time.

          You are right - every combination of time, temperature and particle size
          makes a different flavour BUT the cold drip produces results that are
          lower in dissolved solids.

          Try making a stew with cold water.

          happy brewing

          ian

          On 2/08/2013 3:19 PM, Dave Bellware wrote:
          > What my experiments with cold brewing have proved to me is that no matter
          > how much I think I know about coffee and coffee preparation, the book is by
          > no means closed. As for the inefficiency of large particle size and the
          > resultant smaller surface area, the greatly increased steep time of cold
          > brewing negates much of that inefficiency, in my opinion. I've known that
          > from comparing short-steeped, finely ground vacuum brews to much
          > longer-steeped drip brews with coffee that's much more coarsely ground.
          > Both are great but they are not the same.
          >
          > I can't remember where I saw it, but I've seen a chart that made some
          > effort to graph the effects of steep time against particle size of the
          > coffee.
          >
          > The point at which my thinking gets roadblocked is when I start to think
          > that the finest possible grind, such as a true Turkish grind, should or
          > does result in 100% of the ground coffee actually suspended in the final
          > brewed result. I don't happen to believe that such method results in the
          > best taste for my personal preferences. If I presume that I don't want ALL
          > of the coffee bean to be imparted to the coffee I drink, then that means to
          > me that each and every variable can be manipulated to produce pleasing
          > results, and that there are absolutely no hard and fast rules for the best
          > results.
          >
          > Dave Bellware
          >
          >
          > On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 8:26 PM, Ian Bersten <ian@...> wrote:
          >
          >> **
          >>
          >>
          >> Of course I have tried coffee made with cold water.
          >>
          >> Fact - coffee extraction is proportional to surface area of particles.
          >> Coarse ground coffee means poor extraction.
          >> The lower temperature means that some components will never dissolve.
          >> The combination of the two means weak extraction.
          >>
          >> It is my guess that if you took the wet grounds and dried them out in an
          >> oven and then reground them fine that you would get a better cup of coffee.
          >> I am not sure with coffee but I am sure with tea - I have done the
          >> experiment.
          >>
          >> Please make the following experiment
          >>
          >> take come coffee - grind it coarse and make with cold water.
          >> Take the same coffee and grind it espresso grind - pour boiling water
          >> over it and leave for 30-60 seconds and compare.
          >>
          >> Ian
          >>
          >>
          >> On 2/08/2013 9:45 AM, Giuseppe Marrari wrote:
          >>> Never tried cold press huh?
          >>>
          >>> -----Original Message-----
          >>> From: "Ian Bersten" <ian@... <mailto:ian%40helian.net.au>>
          >>> Sent: 8/1/2013 6:27 PM
          >>> To: "vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
          >>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>"
          >>> <vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
          >>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>>
          >>> Subject: Re: [vacpot] Re: Filtron cold water coffee extractor
          >>>
          >>> I always thought the idea of making a cup of coffee was to extract the
          >>> flavour. Why anyone would want to use a brewer that used cold water and
          >>> under-extracted is beyond me. If you seriously want to make weak
          >>> coffee, take a small amount of coffee, brew with hot water. If you want
          >>> to drink it cold, just let it cool.
          >>>
          >>> It just goes to prove that there is an inner urge to find new idols
          >>> within the cult of coffee - that there must be some other way to make a
          >>> cup of coffee that will in some unspecified way take us to coffee
          >>> Nirvana and impress all those around us who belong to another cult and
          >>> have manifestly failed to make a cup of coffee with a method that defies
          >>> comprehension.
          >>>
          >>> The rule is : if it defies comprehension it probably doesn't make good
          >>> coffee.
          >>> Good coffee is made following established and known principles.
          >>> 'Ian
          >>>
          >>> On 2/08/2013 7:40 AM, Larry Hollenberg wrote:
          >>>> Leonard,
          >>>>
          >>>> Google Filtron instructions an you will find quite a number of sites
          >>>> that either have it or discuss it.
          >>>>
          >>>> Larry
          >>>>
          >>>> ________________________________
          >>>> From: eccopronto <lennylenny@... <mailto:lennylenny%40me.com>
          >>> <mailto:lennylenny%40me.com>>
          >>>> To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
          >>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
          >>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
          >>>> Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 3:08 PM
          >>>> Subject: [vacpot] Re: Filtron cold water coffee extractor
          >>>>
          >>>>
          >>>>
          >>>> I have one of these units too. I have it displayed in a great spot in
          >>>> my kitchen. It's sort of an amazing unit to display.
          >>>>
          >>>> BUT, I do not have a clue how to use an old filtron. It has cone
          >>>> shaped filters, cloth filters, a screw on filter...
          >>>>
          >>>> If anyone could post a blow-by-blow list of instructions, I would be
          >>>> very happy and grateful. In the meanwhile, I will continue to look,
          >>>> but not actually use it!
          >>>>
          >>>> (I like to use my stuff!)
          >>>>
          >>>> Thanks
          >>>>
          >>>> Best
          >>>> Leonard
          >>>>
          >>>> --- In vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
          >>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
          >>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>, <rsburritt@...>
          >>>> wrote:
          >>>>> Hi Larry, I have a filtron (one of the newer models) that I picked
          >>>> up in a thrift store and have used it several times. The brewed
          >>>> product is pretty good. It is not the same as vacpot coffee, but it's
          >>>> also a pleasant difference from drip coffee. I would say that the cold
          >>>> brewing process gives the beverage a mildly exotic flavor. One thing
          >>>> that I've noticed lately is that cold-brewing seems to be coming more
          >>>> into style, or at least with some of the designer coffees that I've
          >>>> picked up in the store and looked at the bag, they recommend "cold
          >>>> brewing for full flavor". Interesting.
          >>>>> When my parents when to Hawaii a couple of years ago, they returned
          >>>> with some coffee that called for cold brewing. I brewed it cold in the
          >>>> French Press and it came out very good.
          >>>>> The new filtron units are expensive and not very aesthetic (being
          >>>> made out of dark brown plastic, with a clear polycarbonate
          >>>> wine-decanter style carafe for the brewed coffee), but the older glass
          >>>> ones like Ron picked up are really worth the money just as
          >>>> collectables and due to their beauty with the glass and different
          >>>> colors/varieties of bakelite handles and parts, etc. I wouldn't have
          >>>> been willing to pay the $30-$40 for the new one just to sample this
          >>>> method, but if you find one second hand at a cheap price, then in my
          >>>> opinion it's worth the few bucks.
          >>>>> Also, there was an "interim" model that came out around the
          >>>> 50's-60's which was after the glass models, but before the current
          >>>> models. That model is made of a clear plastic upper with (I believe) a
          >>>> glass lower pot. They are not ugly like the brown plastic units, but
          >>>> they do not have the same character as the vintage glass models.
          >>>>> Roland
          >>>>>
          >>>>>
          >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
          >>>>> From: Larry Hollenberg
          >>>>> To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
          >>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
          >>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
          >>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 6:46 PM
          >>>>> Subject: Re: [vacpot] Filtron cold water coffee extractor
          >>>>>
          >>>>>
          >>>>> Ron,
          >>>>>
          >>>>> I haven't got the answer you want, but would like you to let us know
          >>>> how you find the coffee it makes? I have always wondered about them
          >>>> and I think that some time ago Roland was experimenting with one and
          >>>> found it pretty good. We recently took a rail trip and in the sleepers
          >>>> they had gone from a drip style pot that made quite good coffee to a
          >>>> liquid type that infused with hot water, which I think is a similar
          >>>> idea. I would be interested in some other opinions of this method?
          >>>>> Larry
          >>>>>
          >>>>> --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Ron McCray <stebchem@...> wrote:
          >>>>>
          >>>>>> From: Ron McCray <stebchem@...>
          >>>>>> Subject: [vacpot] Filtron cold water coffee extractor
          >>>>>> To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
          >>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
          >>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
          >>>>>> Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 6:31 PM
          >>>>>> We recently purchased one of the older, all-glass models
          >>>>>> of the Filtron coffee extractor--the one with the lovely
          >>>>>> butterscotch-colored handles. It came with a used filter
          >>>>>> pad and, of course, we want to replace it with a new
          >>>>>> filter. We see Filtron filter pads offered by various
          >>>>>> coffee-related websites, but we're not sure they will
          >>>>>> fit this older model of Filtron. Does anybody in our group
          >>>>>> have experience with Filtrons (especially the older models
          >>>>>> like ours) and have any advice about obtaining new filter
          >>>>>> pads?
          >>>>>> The Filtron company is still in business, but they ignored
          >>>>>> our email in which we asked the question being posed here.
          >>>>>>
          >>>>>> Do the new Filtron filter pads fit the older model
          >>>>>> extractors?
          >>>>>
          >>>>>
          >>>>>
          >>>>>
          >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>>>>
          >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>>>
          >>>>
          >>> --
          >>> www.chaicoffski.com.au
          >>> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
          >>> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
          >>>
          >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>>
          >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>>
          >>>
          >> --
          >> www.chaicoffski.com.au
          >> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
          >> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
          >>
          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >


          --
          www.chaicoffski.com.au
          Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
          Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
        • Dave Bellware
          By definition, the qualification standards for Gold Cup simply does not allow a reduction of 35% in the amount of coffee used. The claim you make is therefore
          Message 4 of 20 , Aug 1, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            By definition, the qualification standards for Gold Cup simply does not
            allow a reduction of 35% in the amount of coffee used. The claim you make
            is therefore provably incorrect. The maximum permissible reduction in
            coffee amount is 23%, since the minimum amount that can be used is 92 grams
            and the maximum amount that can be used is 120 grams for the Gold Cup
            standard.

            However, when I clicked the link you provided, I see that you're selling
            your own product, which leads me to believe that the facts might not be
            your highest priority. I am not disparaging your filter, just the claims
            you make about it.

            Dave Bellware


            On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 1:36 AM, Ian Bersten <ian@...> wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            > There is an enormous difference between making Turkish coffee where heat
            > is applied to boiling the coffee and pouring boiling water over coffee.
            > The latter never gets bitter until you apply more heat.
            >
            > Yes there is a difference between coffee steeped for longer times but
            > the major factor is the grind particle size.
            >
            > I have had tests done by an approved lab that proves that you can get
            > SCAA Goldcup standard with espresso grind coffee brewed for 30 seconds
            > using 35% less coffee. Other methodds using coarser grind coffee need
            > 50% more coffee and longer - up to eight times - brewing time.
            >
            > You are right - every combination of time, temperature and particle size
            > makes a different flavour BUT the cold drip produces results that are
            > lower in dissolved solids.
            >
            > Try making a stew with cold water.
            >
            > happy brewing
            >
            > ian
            >
            >
            > On 2/08/2013 3:19 PM, Dave Bellware wrote:
            > > What my experiments with cold brewing have proved to me is that no matter
            > > how much I think I know about coffee and coffee preparation, the book is
            > by
            > > no means closed. As for the inefficiency of large particle size and the
            > > resultant smaller surface area, the greatly increased steep time of cold
            > > brewing negates much of that inefficiency, in my opinion. I've known that
            > > from comparing short-steeped, finely ground vacuum brews to much
            > > longer-steeped drip brews with coffee that's much more coarsely ground.
            > > Both are great but they are not the same.
            > >
            > > I can't remember where I saw it, but I've seen a chart that made some
            > > effort to graph the effects of steep time against particle size of the
            > > coffee.
            > >
            > > The point at which my thinking gets roadblocked is when I start to think
            > > that the finest possible grind, such as a true Turkish grind, should or
            > > does result in 100% of the ground coffee actually suspended in the final
            > > brewed result. I don't happen to believe that such method results in the
            > > best taste for my personal preferences. If I presume that I don't want
            > ALL
            > > of the coffee bean to be imparted to the coffee I drink, then that means
            > to
            > > me that each and every variable can be manipulated to produce pleasing
            > > results, and that there are absolutely no hard and fast rules for the
            > best
            > > results.
            > >
            > > Dave Bellware
            > >
            > >
            > > On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 8:26 PM, Ian Bersten <ian@...> wrote:
            > >
            > >> **
            >
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> Of course I have tried coffee made with cold water.
            > >>
            > >> Fact - coffee extraction is proportional to surface area of particles.
            > >> Coarse ground coffee means poor extraction.
            > >> The lower temperature means that some components will never dissolve.
            > >> The combination of the two means weak extraction.
            > >>
            > >> It is my guess that if you took the wet grounds and dried them out in an
            > >> oven and then reground them fine that you would get a better cup of
            > coffee.
            > >> I am not sure with coffee but I am sure with tea - I have done the
            > >> experiment.
            > >>
            > >> Please make the following experiment
            > >>
            > >> take come coffee - grind it coarse and make with cold water.
            > >> Take the same coffee and grind it espresso grind - pour boiling water
            > >> over it and leave for 30-60 seconds and compare.
            > >>
            > >> Ian
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> On 2/08/2013 9:45 AM, Giuseppe Marrari wrote:
            > >>> Never tried cold press huh?
            > >>>
            > >>> -----Original Message-----
            > >>> From: "Ian Bersten" <ian@... <mailto:ian%40helian.net.au>>
            > >>> Sent: 8/1/2013 6:27 PM
            > >>> To: "vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
            > >>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>"
            > >>> <vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
            > >>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>>
            > >>> Subject: Re: [vacpot] Re: Filtron cold water coffee extractor
            > >>>
            > >>> I always thought the idea of making a cup of coffee was to extract the
            > >>> flavour. Why anyone would want to use a brewer that used cold water and
            > >>> under-extracted is beyond me. If you seriously want to make weak
            > >>> coffee, take a small amount of coffee, brew with hot water. If you want
            > >>> to drink it cold, just let it cool.
            > >>>
            > >>> It just goes to prove that there is an inner urge to find new idols
            > >>> within the cult of coffee - that there must be some other way to make a
            > >>> cup of coffee that will in some unspecified way take us to coffee
            > >>> Nirvana and impress all those around us who belong to another cult and
            > >>> have manifestly failed to make a cup of coffee with a method that
            > defies
            > >>> comprehension.
            > >>>
            > >>> The rule is : if it defies comprehension it probably doesn't make good
            > >>> coffee.
            > >>> Good coffee is made following established and known principles.
            > >>> 'Ian
            > >>>
            > >>> On 2/08/2013 7:40 AM, Larry Hollenberg wrote:
            > >>>> Leonard,
            > >>>>
            > >>>> Google Filtron instructions an you will find quite a number of sites
            > >>>> that either have it or discuss it.
            > >>>>
            > >>>> Larry
            > >>>>
            > >>>> ________________________________
            > >>>> From: eccopronto <lennylenny@... <mailto:lennylenny%40me.com>
            > >>> <mailto:lennylenny%40me.com>>
            > >>>> To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
            > >>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
            > >>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
            > >>>> Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 3:08 PM
            > >>>> Subject: [vacpot] Re: Filtron cold water coffee extractor
            > >>>>
            > >>>>
            > >>>>
            > >>>> I have one of these units too. I have it displayed in a great spot in
            > >>>> my kitchen. It's sort of an amazing unit to display.
            > >>>>
            > >>>> BUT, I do not have a clue how to use an old filtron. It has cone
            > >>>> shaped filters, cloth filters, a screw on filter...
            > >>>>
            > >>>> If anyone could post a blow-by-blow list of instructions, I would be
            > >>>> very happy and grateful. In the meanwhile, I will continue to look,
            > >>>> but not actually use it!
            > >>>>
            > >>>> (I like to use my stuff!)
            > >>>>
            > >>>> Thanks
            > >>>>
            > >>>> Best
            > >>>> Leonard
            > >>>>
            > >>>> --- In vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
            > >>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
            > >>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>, <rsburritt@...>
            > >>>> wrote:
            > >>>>> Hi Larry, I have a filtron (one of the newer models) that I picked
            > >>>> up in a thrift store and have used it several times. The brewed
            > >>>> product is pretty good. It is not the same as vacpot coffee, but it's
            > >>>> also a pleasant difference from drip coffee. I would say that the cold
            > >>>> brewing process gives the beverage a mildly exotic flavor. One thing
            > >>>> that I've noticed lately is that cold-brewing seems to be coming more
            > >>>> into style, or at least with some of the designer coffees that I've
            > >>>> picked up in the store and looked at the bag, they recommend "cold
            > >>>> brewing for full flavor". Interesting.
            > >>>>> When my parents when to Hawaii a couple of years ago, they returned
            > >>>> with some coffee that called for cold brewing. I brewed it cold in the
            > >>>> French Press and it came out very good.
            > >>>>> The new filtron units are expensive and not very aesthetic (being
            > >>>> made out of dark brown plastic, with a clear polycarbonate
            > >>>> wine-decanter style carafe for the brewed coffee), but the older glass
            > >>>> ones like Ron picked up are really worth the money just as
            > >>>> collectables and due to their beauty with the glass and different
            > >>>> colors/varieties of bakelite handles and parts, etc. I wouldn't have
            > >>>> been willing to pay the $30-$40 for the new one just to sample this
            > >>>> method, but if you find one second hand at a cheap price, then in my
            > >>>> opinion it's worth the few bucks.
            > >>>>> Also, there was an "interim" model that came out around the
            > >>>> 50's-60's which was after the glass models, but before the current
            > >>>> models. That model is made of a clear plastic upper with (I believe) a
            > >>>> glass lower pot. They are not ugly like the brown plastic units, but
            > >>>> they do not have the same character as the vintage glass models.
            > >>>>> Roland
            > >>>>>
            > >>>>>
            > >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
            > >>>>> From: Larry Hollenberg
            > >>>>> To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
            > >>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
            > >>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
            > >>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 6:46 PM
            > >>>>> Subject: Re: [vacpot] Filtron cold water coffee extractor
            > >>>>>
            > >>>>>
            > >>>>> Ron,
            > >>>>>
            > >>>>> I haven't got the answer you want, but would like you to let us know
            > >>>> how you find the coffee it makes? I have always wondered about them
            > >>>> and I think that some time ago Roland was experimenting with one and
            > >>>> found it pretty good. We recently took a rail trip and in the sleepers
            > >>>> they had gone from a drip style pot that made quite good coffee to a
            > >>>> liquid type that infused with hot water, which I think is a similar
            > >>>> idea. I would be interested in some other opinions of this method?
            > >>>>> Larry
            > >>>>>
            > >>>>> --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Ron McCray <stebchem@...> wrote:
            > >>>>>
            > >>>>>> From: Ron McCray <stebchem@...>
            > >>>>>> Subject: [vacpot] Filtron cold water coffee extractor
            > >>>>>> To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
            > >>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
            > >>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
            > >>>>>> Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 6:31 PM
            > >>>>>> We recently purchased one of the older, all-glass models
            > >>>>>> of the Filtron coffee extractor--the one with the lovely
            > >>>>>> butterscotch-colored handles. It came with a used filter
            > >>>>>> pad and, of course, we want to replace it with a new
            > >>>>>> filter. We see Filtron filter pads offered by various
            > >>>>>> coffee-related websites, but we're not sure they will
            > >>>>>> fit this older model of Filtron. Does anybody in our group
            > >>>>>> have experience with Filtrons (especially the older models
            > >>>>>> like ours) and have any advice about obtaining new filter
            > >>>>>> pads?
            > >>>>>> The Filtron company is still in business, but they ignored
            > >>>>>> our email in which we asked the question being posed here.
            > >>>>>>
            > >>>>>> Do the new Filtron filter pads fit the older model
            > >>>>>> extractors?
            > >>>>>
            > >>>>>
            > >>>>>
            > >>>>>
            > >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >>>>>
            > >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >>>>
            > >>>>
            > >>> --
            > >>> www.chaicoffski.com.au
            > >>> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
            > >>> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
            > >>>
            > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >>>
            > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >> --
            > >> www.chaicoffski.com.au
            > >> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
            > >> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
            > >>
            > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > --
            > www.chaicoffski.com.au
            > Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
            > Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Ian Bersten
            Excuse me. The results were provided by an approved laboratory. *Evaluation of Brewing Method & Roasted Coffee Content comparing the CHAICOFFSKI,* *a NEW way
            Message 5 of 20 , Aug 1, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              Excuse me. The results were provided by an approved laboratory.


              *Evaluation of Brewing Method & Roasted Coffee Content comparing the
              CHAICOFFSKI,*

              *a NEW way to brew coffee with some other methods*

              All results were based on the use of the same blend of coffee

              **

              *CONCLUSIONS:*

              All methods produced cups in the mid-range of Usual Good Quality for
              Sensory Scale

              Chaicoffski 1 was almost within Golden Cup Standard. A brew time of
              anotherhalf second would have improved results sufficiently to qualify

              The Hario V-60 took more than five times as long to brew as the
              Chaicoffski 1

              The Aeropress used 250% more coffee and brewed for 33% longer than the
              Chaicoffski 1

              The Bodum Press took *EIGHT* times as long to brew and used 50% more
              coffee than Chaicoffski 1 -- 40 grams/liter and 30 seconds

              All seven methods provided different flavour analysis.

              There was a tiny improvement in Sensory score by raising the Chaicoffski
              brewing time from 30 to 45 seconds

              *Using the Chaicoffski 1 -- 40 grams per liter and 30 seconds brew time
              gives similar quality -- less time -- less coffee -- easier to prepare,
              no paper filters or standing and pouring*

              All quantitative and sensorial data was provided by an independent
              laboratory specializing in coffee approved by the SCAA.

              Copyright Chaicoffski Pty. Ltd.Sydney Australia 2013


              It is true that the results confirm what I am saying about the
              Chaicoffski filter but I never mentioned the name on this site and there
              was no intent in supplying the facts that I did, that I was trying to
              sell the filter to members of this site.

              I do not appreciate ad hominem attacks

              The claims I made above are true.

              Ian Bersten




              On 2/08/2013 4:08 PM, Dave Bellware wrote:
              > By definition, the qualification standards for Gold Cup simply does not
              > allow a reduction of 35% in the amount of coffee used. The claim you make
              > is therefore provably incorrect. The maximum permissible reduction in
              > coffee amount is 23%, since the minimum amount that can be used is 92 grams
              > and the maximum amount that can be used is 120 grams for the Gold Cup
              > standard.
              >
              > However, when I clicked the link you provided, I see that you're selling
              > your own product, which leads me to believe that the facts might not be
              > your highest priority. I am not disparaging your filter, just the claims
              > you make about it.
              >
              > Dave Bellware
              >
              >
              > On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 1:36 AM, Ian Bersten <ian@...> wrote:
              >
              >> **
              >>
              >>
              >> There is an enormous difference between making Turkish coffee where heat
              >> is applied to boiling the coffee and pouring boiling water over coffee.
              >> The latter never gets bitter until you apply more heat.
              >>
              >> Yes there is a difference between coffee steeped for longer times but
              >> the major factor is the grind particle size.
              >>
              >> I have had tests done by an approved lab that proves that you can get
              >> SCAA Goldcup standard with espresso grind coffee brewed for 30 seconds
              >> using 35% less coffee. Other methodds using coarser grind coffee need
              >> 50% more coffee and longer - up to eight times - brewing time.
              >>
              >> You are right - every combination of time, temperature and particle size
              >> makes a different flavour BUT the cold drip produces results that are
              >> lower in dissolved solids.
              >>
              >> Try making a stew with cold water.
              >>
              >> happy brewing
              >>
              >> ian
              >>
              >>
              >> On 2/08/2013 3:19 PM, Dave Bellware wrote:
              >>> What my experiments with cold brewing have proved to me is that no matter
              >>> how much I think I know about coffee and coffee preparation, the book is
              >> by
              >>> no means closed. As for the inefficiency of large particle size and the
              >>> resultant smaller surface area, the greatly increased steep time of cold
              >>> brewing negates much of that inefficiency, in my opinion. I've known that
              >>> from comparing short-steeped, finely ground vacuum brews to much
              >>> longer-steeped drip brews with coffee that's much more coarsely ground.
              >>> Both are great but they are not the same.
              >>>
              >>> I can't remember where I saw it, but I've seen a chart that made some
              >>> effort to graph the effects of steep time against particle size of the
              >>> coffee.
              >>>
              >>> The point at which my thinking gets roadblocked is when I start to think
              >>> that the finest possible grind, such as a true Turkish grind, should or
              >>> does result in 100% of the ground coffee actually suspended in the final
              >>> brewed result. I don't happen to believe that such method results in the
              >>> best taste for my personal preferences. If I presume that I don't want
              >> ALL
              >>> of the coffee bean to be imparted to the coffee I drink, then that means
              >> to
              >>> me that each and every variable can be manipulated to produce pleasing
              >>> results, and that there are absolutely no hard and fast rules for the
              >> best
              >>> results.
              >>>
              >>> Dave Bellware
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 8:26 PM, Ian Bersten <ian@...> wrote:
              >>>
              >>>> **
              >>>>
              >>>> Of course I have tried coffee made with cold water.
              >>>>
              >>>> Fact - coffee extraction is proportional to surface area of particles.
              >>>> Coarse ground coffee means poor extraction.
              >>>> The lower temperature means that some components will never dissolve.
              >>>> The combination of the two means weak extraction.
              >>>>
              >>>> It is my guess that if you took the wet grounds and dried them out in an
              >>>> oven and then reground them fine that you would get a better cup of
              >> coffee.
              >>>> I am not sure with coffee but I am sure with tea - I have done the
              >>>> experiment.
              >>>>
              >>>> Please make the following experiment
              >>>>
              >>>> take come coffee - grind it coarse and make with cold water.
              >>>> Take the same coffee and grind it espresso grind - pour boiling water
              >>>> over it and leave for 30-60 seconds and compare.
              >>>>
              >>>> Ian
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>> On 2/08/2013 9:45 AM, Giuseppe Marrari wrote:
              >>>>> Never tried cold press huh?
              >>>>>
              >>>>> -----Original Message-----
              >>>>> From: "Ian Bersten" <ian@... <mailto:ian%40helian.net.au>>
              >>>>> Sent: 8/1/2013 6:27 PM
              >>>>> To: "vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
              >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>"
              >>>>> <vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
              >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>>
              >>>>> Subject: Re: [vacpot] Re: Filtron cold water coffee extractor
              >>>>>
              >>>>> I always thought the idea of making a cup of coffee was to extract the
              >>>>> flavour. Why anyone would want to use a brewer that used cold water and
              >>>>> under-extracted is beyond me. If you seriously want to make weak
              >>>>> coffee, take a small amount of coffee, brew with hot water. If you want
              >>>>> to drink it cold, just let it cool.
              >>>>>
              >>>>> It just goes to prove that there is an inner urge to find new idols
              >>>>> within the cult of coffee - that there must be some other way to make a
              >>>>> cup of coffee that will in some unspecified way take us to coffee
              >>>>> Nirvana and impress all those around us who belong to another cult and
              >>>>> have manifestly failed to make a cup of coffee with a method that
              >> defies
              >>>>> comprehension.
              >>>>>
              >>>>> The rule is : if it defies comprehension it probably doesn't make good
              >>>>> coffee.
              >>>>> Good coffee is made following established and known principles.
              >>>>> 'Ian
              >>>>>
              >>>>> On 2/08/2013 7:40 AM, Larry Hollenberg wrote:
              >>>>>> Leonard,
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>> Google Filtron instructions an you will find quite a number of sites
              >>>>>> that either have it or discuss it.
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>> Larry
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>> ________________________________
              >>>>>> From: eccopronto <lennylenny@... <mailto:lennylenny%40me.com>
              >>>>> <mailto:lennylenny%40me.com>>
              >>>>>> To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
              >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
              >>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
              >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 3:08 PM
              >>>>>> Subject: [vacpot] Re: Filtron cold water coffee extractor
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>> I have one of these units too. I have it displayed in a great spot in
              >>>>>> my kitchen. It's sort of an amazing unit to display.
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>> BUT, I do not have a clue how to use an old filtron. It has cone
              >>>>>> shaped filters, cloth filters, a screw on filter...
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>> If anyone could post a blow-by-blow list of instructions, I would be
              >>>>>> very happy and grateful. In the meanwhile, I will continue to look,
              >>>>>> but not actually use it!
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>> (I like to use my stuff!)
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>> Thanks
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>> Best
              >>>>>> Leonard
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>> --- In vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
              >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
              >>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>, <rsburritt@...>
              >>>>>> wrote:
              >>>>>>> Hi Larry, I have a filtron (one of the newer models) that I picked
              >>>>>> up in a thrift store and have used it several times. The brewed
              >>>>>> product is pretty good. It is not the same as vacpot coffee, but it's
              >>>>>> also a pleasant difference from drip coffee. I would say that the cold
              >>>>>> brewing process gives the beverage a mildly exotic flavor. One thing
              >>>>>> that I've noticed lately is that cold-brewing seems to be coming more
              >>>>>> into style, or at least with some of the designer coffees that I've
              >>>>>> picked up in the store and looked at the bag, they recommend "cold
              >>>>>> brewing for full flavor". Interesting.
              >>>>>>> When my parents when to Hawaii a couple of years ago, they returned
              >>>>>> with some coffee that called for cold brewing. I brewed it cold in the
              >>>>>> French Press and it came out very good.
              >>>>>>> The new filtron units are expensive and not very aesthetic (being
              >>>>>> made out of dark brown plastic, with a clear polycarbonate
              >>>>>> wine-decanter style carafe for the brewed coffee), but the older glass
              >>>>>> ones like Ron picked up are really worth the money just as
              >>>>>> collectables and due to their beauty with the glass and different
              >>>>>> colors/varieties of bakelite handles and parts, etc. I wouldn't have
              >>>>>> been willing to pay the $30-$40 for the new one just to sample this
              >>>>>> method, but if you find one second hand at a cheap price, then in my
              >>>>>> opinion it's worth the few bucks.
              >>>>>>> Also, there was an "interim" model that came out around the
              >>>>>> 50's-60's which was after the glass models, but before the current
              >>>>>> models. That model is made of a clear plastic upper with (I believe) a
              >>>>>> glass lower pot. They are not ugly like the brown plastic units, but
              >>>>>> they do not have the same character as the vintage glass models.
              >>>>>>> Roland
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
              >>>>>>> From: Larry Hollenberg
              >>>>>>> To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
              >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
              >>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
              >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 6:46 PM
              >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [vacpot] Filtron cold water coffee extractor
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> Ron,
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> I haven't got the answer you want, but would like you to let us know
              >>>>>> how you find the coffee it makes? I have always wondered about them
              >>>>>> and I think that some time ago Roland was experimenting with one and
              >>>>>> found it pretty good. We recently took a rail trip and in the sleepers
              >>>>>> they had gone from a drip style pot that made quite good coffee to a
              >>>>>> liquid type that infused with hot water, which I think is a similar
              >>>>>> idea. I would be interested in some other opinions of this method?
              >>>>>>> Larry
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Ron McCray <stebchem@...> wrote:
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>>> From: Ron McCray <stebchem@...>
              >>>>>>>> Subject: [vacpot] Filtron cold water coffee extractor
              >>>>>>>> To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
              >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
              >>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
              >>>>>>>> Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 6:31 PM
              >>>>>>>> We recently purchased one of the older, all-glass models
              >>>>>>>> of the Filtron coffee extractor--the one with the lovely
              >>>>>>>> butterscotch-colored handles. It came with a used filter
              >>>>>>>> pad and, of course, we want to replace it with a new
              >>>>>>>> filter. We see Filtron filter pads offered by various
              >>>>>>>> coffee-related websites, but we're not sure they will
              >>>>>>>> fit this older model of Filtron. Does anybody in our group
              >>>>>>>> have experience with Filtrons (especially the older models
              >>>>>>>> like ours) and have any advice about obtaining new filter
              >>>>>>>> pads?
              >>>>>>>> The Filtron company is still in business, but they ignored
              >>>>>>>> our email in which we asked the question being posed here.
              >>>>>>>>
              >>>>>>>> Do the new Filtron filter pads fit the older model
              >>>>>>>> extractors?
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>>
              >>>>> --
              >>>>> www.chaicoffski.com.au
              >>>>> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
              >>>>> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
              >>>>>
              >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>>>>
              >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>> --
              >>>> www.chaicoffski.com.au
              >>>> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
              >>>> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
              >>>>
              >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> ------------------------------------
              >>>
              >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
              >>>
              >>>
              >> --
              >> www.chaicoffski.com.au
              >> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
              >> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >


              --
              www.chaicoffski.com.au
              Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
              Make tea with 160% more antioxidants



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Dave Bellware
              A laboratory approved by whom? SCAA does not use a Sensory Scale in its Gold Cup Standard, so any and all such references are irrelevant as far as meeting the
              Message 6 of 20 , Aug 1, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                A laboratory approved by whom? SCAA does not use a Sensory Scale in its
                Gold Cup Standard, so any and all such references are irrelevant as far as
                meeting the Standard. The measurements made for Gold Cup relate solely to
                the amount of coffee extracted, from a mandated amount which you did not
                meet to begin with. I can extract the approved percentage using 90% less
                coffee, but I wouldn't like the taste of it. SCAA does not approve coffees,
                it approves preparation methods. I think the lab has hoodwinked somebody.

                Dave Bellware




                On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:42 AM, Ian Bersten <ian@...> wrote:

                > **
                >
                >
                > Excuse me. The results were provided by an approved laboratory.
                >
                > *Evaluation of Brewing Method & Roasted Coffee Content comparing the
                > CHAICOFFSKI,*
                >
                > *a NEW way to brew coffee with some other methods*
                >
                > All results were based on the use of the same blend of coffee
                >
                > **
                >
                > *CONCLUSIONS:*
                >
                > All methods produced cups in the mid-range of Usual Good Quality for
                > Sensory Scale
                >
                > Chaicoffski 1 was almost within Golden Cup Standard. A brew time of
                > anotherhalf second would have improved results sufficiently to qualify
                >
                > The Hario V-60 took more than five times as long to brew as the
                > Chaicoffski 1
                >
                > The Aeropress used 250% more coffee and brewed for 33% longer than the
                > Chaicoffski 1
                >
                > The Bodum Press took *EIGHT* times as long to brew and used 50% more
                > coffee than Chaicoffski 1 -- 40 grams/liter and 30 seconds
                >
                > All seven methods provided different flavour analysis.
                >
                > There was a tiny improvement in Sensory score by raising the Chaicoffski
                > brewing time from 30 to 45 seconds
                >
                > *Using the Chaicoffski 1 -- 40 grams per liter and 30 seconds brew time
                > gives similar quality -- less time -- less coffee -- easier to prepare,
                > no paper filters or standing and pouring*
                >
                > All quantitative and sensorial data was provided by an independent
                > laboratory specializing in coffee approved by the SCAA.
                >
                > Copyright Chaicoffski Pty. Ltd.Sydney Australia 2013
                >
                > It is true that the results confirm what I am saying about the
                > Chaicoffski filter but I never mentioned the name on this site and there
                > was no intent in supplying the facts that I did, that I was trying to
                > sell the filter to members of this site.
                >
                > I do not appreciate ad hominem attacks
                >
                > The claims I made above are true.
                >
                > Ian Bersten
                >
                >
                > On 2/08/2013 4:08 PM, Dave Bellware wrote:
                > > By definition, the qualification standards for Gold Cup simply does not
                > > allow a reduction of 35% in the amount of coffee used. The claim you make
                > > is therefore provably incorrect. The maximum permissible reduction in
                > > coffee amount is 23%, since the minimum amount that can be used is 92
                > grams
                > > and the maximum amount that can be used is 120 grams for the Gold Cup
                > > standard.
                > >
                > > However, when I clicked the link you provided, I see that you're selling
                > > your own product, which leads me to believe that the facts might not be
                > > your highest priority. I am not disparaging your filter, just the claims
                > > you make about it.
                > >
                > > Dave Bellware
                > >
                > >
                > > On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 1:36 AM, Ian Bersten <ian@...> wrote:
                > >
                > >> **
                >
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> There is an enormous difference between making Turkish coffee where heat
                > >> is applied to boiling the coffee and pouring boiling water over coffee.
                > >> The latter never gets bitter until you apply more heat.
                > >>
                > >> Yes there is a difference between coffee steeped for longer times but
                > >> the major factor is the grind particle size.
                > >>
                > >> I have had tests done by an approved lab that proves that you can get
                > >> SCAA Goldcup standard with espresso grind coffee brewed for 30 seconds
                > >> using 35% less coffee. Other methodds using coarser grind coffee need
                > >> 50% more coffee and longer - up to eight times - brewing time.
                > >>
                > >> You are right - every combination of time, temperature and particle size
                > >> makes a different flavour BUT the cold drip produces results that are
                > >> lower in dissolved solids.
                > >>
                > >> Try making a stew with cold water.
                > >>
                > >> happy brewing
                > >>
                > >> ian
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> On 2/08/2013 3:19 PM, Dave Bellware wrote:
                > >>> What my experiments with cold brewing have proved to me is that no
                > matter
                > >>> how much I think I know about coffee and coffee preparation, the book
                > is
                > >> by
                > >>> no means closed. As for the inefficiency of large particle size and the
                > >>> resultant smaller surface area, the greatly increased steep time of
                > cold
                > >>> brewing negates much of that inefficiency, in my opinion. I've known
                > that
                > >>> from comparing short-steeped, finely ground vacuum brews to much
                > >>> longer-steeped drip brews with coffee that's much more coarsely ground.
                > >>> Both are great but they are not the same.
                > >>>
                > >>> I can't remember where I saw it, but I've seen a chart that made some
                > >>> effort to graph the effects of steep time against particle size of the
                > >>> coffee.
                > >>>
                > >>> The point at which my thinking gets roadblocked is when I start to
                > think
                > >>> that the finest possible grind, such as a true Turkish grind, should or
                > >>> does result in 100% of the ground coffee actually suspended in the
                > final
                > >>> brewed result. I don't happen to believe that such method results in
                > the
                > >>> best taste for my personal preferences. If I presume that I don't want
                > >> ALL
                > >>> of the coffee bean to be imparted to the coffee I drink, then that
                > means
                > >> to
                > >>> me that each and every variable can be manipulated to produce pleasing
                > >>> results, and that there are absolutely no hard and fast rules for the
                > >> best
                > >>> results.
                > >>>
                > >>> Dave Bellware
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>> On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 8:26 PM, Ian Bersten <ian@...> wrote:
                > >>>
                > >>>> **
                > >>>>
                > >>>> Of course I have tried coffee made with cold water.
                > >>>>
                > >>>> Fact - coffee extraction is proportional to surface area of particles.
                > >>>> Coarse ground coffee means poor extraction.
                > >>>> The lower temperature means that some components will never dissolve.
                > >>>> The combination of the two means weak extraction.
                > >>>>
                > >>>> It is my guess that if you took the wet grounds and dried them out in
                > an
                > >>>> oven and then reground them fine that you would get a better cup of
                > >> coffee.
                > >>>> I am not sure with coffee but I am sure with tea - I have done the
                > >>>> experiment.
                > >>>>
                > >>>> Please make the following experiment
                > >>>>
                > >>>> take come coffee - grind it coarse and make with cold water.
                > >>>> Take the same coffee and grind it espresso grind - pour boiling water
                > >>>> over it and leave for 30-60 seconds and compare.
                > >>>>
                > >>>> Ian
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>> On 2/08/2013 9:45 AM, Giuseppe Marrari wrote:
                > >>>>> Never tried cold press huh?
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> -----Original Message-----
                > >>>>> From: "Ian Bersten" <ian@... <mailto:ian%40helian.net.au>>
                > >>>>> Sent: 8/1/2013 6:27 PM
                > >>>>> To: "vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                > >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>"
                > >>>>> <vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                > >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>>
                > >>>>> Subject: Re: [vacpot] Re: Filtron cold water coffee extractor
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> I always thought the idea of making a cup of coffee was to extract
                > the
                > >>>>> flavour. Why anyone would want to use a brewer that used cold water
                > and
                > >>>>> under-extracted is beyond me. If you seriously want to make weak
                > >>>>> coffee, take a small amount of coffee, brew with hot water. If you
                > want
                > >>>>> to drink it cold, just let it cool.
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> It just goes to prove that there is an inner urge to find new idols
                > >>>>> within the cult of coffee - that there must be some other way to
                > make a
                > >>>>> cup of coffee that will in some unspecified way take us to coffee
                > >>>>> Nirvana and impress all those around us who belong to another cult
                > and
                > >>>>> have manifestly failed to make a cup of coffee with a method that
                > >> defies
                > >>>>> comprehension.
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> The rule is : if it defies comprehension it probably doesn't make
                > good
                > >>>>> coffee.
                > >>>>> Good coffee is made following established and known principles.
                > >>>>> 'Ian
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> On 2/08/2013 7:40 AM, Larry Hollenberg wrote:
                > >>>>>> Leonard,
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>> Google Filtron instructions an you will find quite a number of sites
                > >>>>>> that either have it or discuss it.
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>> Larry
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>> ________________________________
                > >>>>>> From: eccopronto <lennylenny@... <mailto:lennylenny%40me.com>
                > >>>>> <mailto:lennylenny%40me.com>>
                > >>>>>> To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                > >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                > >>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                > >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 3:08 PM
                > >>>>>> Subject: [vacpot] Re: Filtron cold water coffee extractor
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>> I have one of these units too. I have it displayed in a great spot
                > in
                > >>>>>> my kitchen. It's sort of an amazing unit to display.
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>> BUT, I do not have a clue how to use an old filtron. It has cone
                > >>>>>> shaped filters, cloth filters, a screw on filter...
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>> If anyone could post a blow-by-blow list of instructions, I would be
                > >>>>>> very happy and grateful. In the meanwhile, I will continue to look,
                > >>>>>> but not actually use it!
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>> (I like to use my stuff!)
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>> Thanks
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>> Best
                > >>>>>> Leonard
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>> --- In vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                > >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                > >>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>, <rsburritt@
                > ...>
                > >>>>>> wrote:
                > >>>>>>> Hi Larry, I have a filtron (one of the newer models) that I picked
                > >>>>>> up in a thrift store and have used it several times. The brewed
                > >>>>>> product is pretty good. It is not the same as vacpot coffee, but
                > it's
                > >>>>>> also a pleasant difference from drip coffee. I would say that the
                > cold
                > >>>>>> brewing process gives the beverage a mildly exotic flavor. One thing
                > >>>>>> that I've noticed lately is that cold-brewing seems to be coming
                > more
                > >>>>>> into style, or at least with some of the designer coffees that I've
                > >>>>>> picked up in the store and looked at the bag, they recommend "cold
                > >>>>>> brewing for full flavor". Interesting.
                > >>>>>>> When my parents when to Hawaii a couple of years ago, they returned
                > >>>>>> with some coffee that called for cold brewing. I brewed it cold in
                > the
                > >>>>>> French Press and it came out very good.
                > >>>>>>> The new filtron units are expensive and not very aesthetic (being
                > >>>>>> made out of dark brown plastic, with a clear polycarbonate
                > >>>>>> wine-decanter style carafe for the brewed coffee), but the older
                > glass
                > >>>>>> ones like Ron picked up are really worth the money just as
                > >>>>>> collectables and due to their beauty with the glass and different
                > >>>>>> colors/varieties of bakelite handles and parts, etc. I wouldn't have
                > >>>>>> been willing to pay the $30-$40 for the new one just to sample this
                > >>>>>> method, but if you find one second hand at a cheap price, then in my
                > >>>>>> opinion it's worth the few bucks.
                > >>>>>>> Also, there was an "interim" model that came out around the
                > >>>>>> 50's-60's which was after the glass models, but before the current
                > >>>>>> models. That model is made of a clear plastic upper with (I
                > believe) a
                > >>>>>> glass lower pot. They are not ugly like the brown plastic units, but
                > >>>>>> they do not have the same character as the vintage glass models.
                > >>>>>>> Roland
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
                > >>>>>>> From: Larry Hollenberg
                > >>>>>>> To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                > >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                > >>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                > >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 6:46 PM
                > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [vacpot] Filtron cold water coffee extractor
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>> Ron,
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>> I haven't got the answer you want, but would like you to let us
                > know
                > >>>>>> how you find the coffee it makes? I have always wondered about them
                > >>>>>> and I think that some time ago Roland was experimenting with one and
                > >>>>>> found it pretty good. We recently took a rail trip and in the
                > sleepers
                > >>>>>> they had gone from a drip style pot that made quite good coffee to a
                > >>>>>> liquid type that infused with hot water, which I think is a similar
                > >>>>>> idea. I would be interested in some other opinions of this method?
                > >>>>>>> Larry
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>> --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Ron McCray <stebchem@...> wrote:
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>> From: Ron McCray <stebchem@...>
                > >>>>>>>> Subject: [vacpot] Filtron cold water coffee extractor
                > >>>>>>>> To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                > >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                > >>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                > >>>>>>>> Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 6:31 PM
                > >>>>>>>> We recently purchased one of the older, all-glass models
                > >>>>>>>> of the Filtron coffee extractor--the one with the lovely
                > >>>>>>>> butterscotch-colored handles. It came with a used filter
                > >>>>>>>> pad and, of course, we want to replace it with a new
                > >>>>>>>> filter. We see Filtron filter pads offered by various
                > >>>>>>>> coffee-related websites, but we're not sure they will
                > >>>>>>>> fit this older model of Filtron. Does anybody in our group
                > >>>>>>>> have experience with Filtrons (especially the older models
                > >>>>>>>> like ours) and have any advice about obtaining new filter
                > >>>>>>>> pads?
                > >>>>>>>> The Filtron company is still in business, but they ignored
                > >>>>>>>> our email in which we asked the question being posed here.
                > >>>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>> Do the new Filtron filter pads fit the older model
                > >>>>>>>> extractors?
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>> --
                > >>>>> www.chaicoffski.com.au
                > >>>>> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
                > >>>>> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>> --
                > >>>> www.chaicoffski.com.au
                > >>>> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
                > >>>> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
                > >>>>
                > >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>> ------------------------------------
                > >>>
                > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >> --
                > >> www.chaicoffski.com.au
                > >> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
                > >> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > --
                > www.chaicoffski.com.au
                > Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
                > Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Ian Bersten
                By the terms of my contract with the laboratory I am unable to name them. I will pass your comments to them to see if they can respond. ... --
                Message 7 of 20 , Aug 2, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  By the terms of my contract with the laboratory I am unable to name
                  them. I will pass your comments to them to see if they can respond.



                  On 2/08/2013 4:59 PM, Dave Bellware wrote:
                  > A laboratory approved by whom? SCAA does not use a Sensory Scale in its
                  > Gold Cup Standard, so any and all such references are irrelevant as far as
                  > meeting the Standard. The measurements made for Gold Cup relate solely to
                  > the amount of coffee extracted, from a mandated amount which you did not
                  > meet to begin with. I can extract the approved percentage using 90% less
                  > coffee, but I wouldn't like the taste of it. SCAA does not approve coffees,
                  > it approves preparation methods. I think the lab has hoodwinked somebody.
                  >
                  > Dave Bellware
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:42 AM, Ian Bersten <ian@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >> **
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Excuse me. The results were provided by an approved laboratory.
                  >>
                  >> *Evaluation of Brewing Method & Roasted Coffee Content comparing the
                  >> CHAICOFFSKI,*
                  >>
                  >> *a NEW way to brew coffee with some other methods*
                  >>
                  >> All results were based on the use of the same blend of coffee
                  >>
                  >> **
                  >>
                  >> *CONCLUSIONS:*
                  >>
                  >> All methods produced cups in the mid-range of Usual Good Quality for
                  >> Sensory Scale
                  >>
                  >> Chaicoffski 1 was almost within Golden Cup Standard. A brew time of
                  >> anotherhalf second would have improved results sufficiently to qualify
                  >>
                  >> The Hario V-60 took more than five times as long to brew as the
                  >> Chaicoffski 1
                  >>
                  >> The Aeropress used 250% more coffee and brewed for 33% longer than the
                  >> Chaicoffski 1
                  >>
                  >> The Bodum Press took *EIGHT* times as long to brew and used 50% more
                  >> coffee than Chaicoffski 1 -- 40 grams/liter and 30 seconds
                  >>
                  >> All seven methods provided different flavour analysis.
                  >>
                  >> There was a tiny improvement in Sensory score by raising the Chaicoffski
                  >> brewing time from 30 to 45 seconds
                  >>
                  >> *Using the Chaicoffski 1 -- 40 grams per liter and 30 seconds brew time
                  >> gives similar quality -- less time -- less coffee -- easier to prepare,
                  >> no paper filters or standing and pouring*
                  >>
                  >> All quantitative and sensorial data was provided by an independent
                  >> laboratory specializing in coffee approved by the SCAA.
                  >>
                  >> Copyright Chaicoffski Pty. Ltd.Sydney Australia 2013
                  >>
                  >> It is true that the results confirm what I am saying about the
                  >> Chaicoffski filter but I never mentioned the name on this site and there
                  >> was no intent in supplying the facts that I did, that I was trying to
                  >> sell the filter to members of this site.
                  >>
                  >> I do not appreciate ad hominem attacks
                  >>
                  >> The claims I made above are true.
                  >>
                  >> Ian Bersten
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> On 2/08/2013 4:08 PM, Dave Bellware wrote:
                  >>> By definition, the qualification standards for Gold Cup simply does not
                  >>> allow a reduction of 35% in the amount of coffee used. The claim you make
                  >>> is therefore provably incorrect. The maximum permissible reduction in
                  >>> coffee amount is 23%, since the minimum amount that can be used is 92
                  >> grams
                  >>> and the maximum amount that can be used is 120 grams for the Gold Cup
                  >>> standard.
                  >>>
                  >>> However, when I clicked the link you provided, I see that you're selling
                  >>> your own product, which leads me to believe that the facts might not be
                  >>> your highest priority. I am not disparaging your filter, just the claims
                  >>> you make about it.
                  >>>
                  >>> Dave Bellware
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 1:36 AM, Ian Bersten <ian@...> wrote:
                  >>>
                  >>>> **
                  >>>>
                  >>>> There is an enormous difference between making Turkish coffee where heat
                  >>>> is applied to boiling the coffee and pouring boiling water over coffee.
                  >>>> The latter never gets bitter until you apply more heat.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> Yes there is a difference between coffee steeped for longer times but
                  >>>> the major factor is the grind particle size.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> I have had tests done by an approved lab that proves that you can get
                  >>>> SCAA Goldcup standard with espresso grind coffee brewed for 30 seconds
                  >>>> using 35% less coffee. Other methodds using coarser grind coffee need
                  >>>> 50% more coffee and longer - up to eight times - brewing time.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> You are right - every combination of time, temperature and particle size
                  >>>> makes a different flavour BUT the cold drip produces results that are
                  >>>> lower in dissolved solids.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> Try making a stew with cold water.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> happy brewing
                  >>>>
                  >>>> ian
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>>> On 2/08/2013 3:19 PM, Dave Bellware wrote:
                  >>>>> What my experiments with cold brewing have proved to me is that no
                  >> matter
                  >>>>> how much I think I know about coffee and coffee preparation, the book
                  >> is
                  >>>> by
                  >>>>> no means closed. As for the inefficiency of large particle size and the
                  >>>>> resultant smaller surface area, the greatly increased steep time of
                  >> cold
                  >>>>> brewing negates much of that inefficiency, in my opinion. I've known
                  >> that
                  >>>>> from comparing short-steeped, finely ground vacuum brews to much
                  >>>>> longer-steeped drip brews with coffee that's much more coarsely ground.
                  >>>>> Both are great but they are not the same.
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>> I can't remember where I saw it, but I've seen a chart that made some
                  >>>>> effort to graph the effects of steep time against particle size of the
                  >>>>> coffee.
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>> The point at which my thinking gets roadblocked is when I start to
                  >> think
                  >>>>> that the finest possible grind, such as a true Turkish grind, should or
                  >>>>> does result in 100% of the ground coffee actually suspended in the
                  >> final
                  >>>>> brewed result. I don't happen to believe that such method results in
                  >> the
                  >>>>> best taste for my personal preferences. If I presume that I don't want
                  >>>> ALL
                  >>>>> of the coffee bean to be imparted to the coffee I drink, then that
                  >> means
                  >>>> to
                  >>>>> me that each and every variable can be manipulated to produce pleasing
                  >>>>> results, and that there are absolutely no hard and fast rules for the
                  >>>> best
                  >>>>> results.
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>> Dave Bellware
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>> On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 8:26 PM, Ian Bersten <ian@...> wrote:
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>> **
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> Of course I have tried coffee made with cold water.
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> Fact - coffee extraction is proportional to surface area of particles.
                  >>>>>> Coarse ground coffee means poor extraction.
                  >>>>>> The lower temperature means that some components will never dissolve.
                  >>>>>> The combination of the two means weak extraction.
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> It is my guess that if you took the wet grounds and dried them out in
                  >> an
                  >>>>>> oven and then reground them fine that you would get a better cup of
                  >>>> coffee.
                  >>>>>> I am not sure with coffee but I am sure with tea - I have done the
                  >>>>>> experiment.
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> Please make the following experiment
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> take come coffee - grind it coarse and make with cold water.
                  >>>>>> Take the same coffee and grind it espresso grind - pour boiling water
                  >>>>>> over it and leave for 30-60 seconds and compare.
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> Ian
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> On 2/08/2013 9:45 AM, Giuseppe Marrari wrote:
                  >>>>>>> Never tried cold press huh?
                  >>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
                  >>>>>>> From: "Ian Bersten" <ian@... <mailto:ian%40helian.net.au>>
                  >>>>>>> Sent: 8/1/2013 6:27 PM
                  >>>>>>> To: "vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                  >>>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>"
                  >>>>>>> <vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                  >>>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>>
                  >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [vacpot] Re: Filtron cold water coffee extractor
                  >>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>> I always thought the idea of making a cup of coffee was to extract
                  >> the
                  >>>>>>> flavour. Why anyone would want to use a brewer that used cold water
                  >> and
                  >>>>>>> under-extracted is beyond me. If you seriously want to make weak
                  >>>>>>> coffee, take a small amount of coffee, brew with hot water. If you
                  >> want
                  >>>>>>> to drink it cold, just let it cool.
                  >>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>> It just goes to prove that there is an inner urge to find new idols
                  >>>>>>> within the cult of coffee - that there must be some other way to
                  >> make a
                  >>>>>>> cup of coffee that will in some unspecified way take us to coffee
                  >>>>>>> Nirvana and impress all those around us who belong to another cult
                  >> and
                  >>>>>>> have manifestly failed to make a cup of coffee with a method that
                  >>>> defies
                  >>>>>>> comprehension.
                  >>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>> The rule is : if it defies comprehension it probably doesn't make
                  >> good
                  >>>>>>> coffee.
                  >>>>>>> Good coffee is made following established and known principles.
                  >>>>>>> 'Ian
                  >>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>> On 2/08/2013 7:40 AM, Larry Hollenberg wrote:
                  >>>>>>>> Leonard,
                  >>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>> Google Filtron instructions an you will find quite a number of sites
                  >>>>>>>> that either have it or discuss it.
                  >>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>> Larry
                  >>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>> ________________________________
                  >>>>>>>> From: eccopronto <lennylenny@... <mailto:lennylenny%40me.com>
                  >>>>>>> <mailto:lennylenny%40me.com>>
                  >>>>>>>> To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                  >>>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                  >>>>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                  >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 3:08 PM
                  >>>>>>>> Subject: [vacpot] Re: Filtron cold water coffee extractor
                  >>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>> I have one of these units too. I have it displayed in a great spot
                  >> in
                  >>>>>>>> my kitchen. It's sort of an amazing unit to display.
                  >>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>> BUT, I do not have a clue how to use an old filtron. It has cone
                  >>>>>>>> shaped filters, cloth filters, a screw on filter...
                  >>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>> If anyone could post a blow-by-blow list of instructions, I would be
                  >>>>>>>> very happy and grateful. In the meanwhile, I will continue to look,
                  >>>>>>>> but not actually use it!
                  >>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>> (I like to use my stuff!)
                  >>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>> Thanks
                  >>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>> Best
                  >>>>>>>> Leonard
                  >>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>> --- In vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                  >>>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                  >>>>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>, <rsburritt@
                  >> ...>
                  >>>>>>>> wrote:
                  >>>>>>>>> Hi Larry, I have a filtron (one of the newer models) that I picked
                  >>>>>>>> up in a thrift store and have used it several times. The brewed
                  >>>>>>>> product is pretty good. It is not the same as vacpot coffee, but
                  >> it's
                  >>>>>>>> also a pleasant difference from drip coffee. I would say that the
                  >> cold
                  >>>>>>>> brewing process gives the beverage a mildly exotic flavor. One thing
                  >>>>>>>> that I've noticed lately is that cold-brewing seems to be coming
                  >> more
                  >>>>>>>> into style, or at least with some of the designer coffees that I've
                  >>>>>>>> picked up in the store and looked at the bag, they recommend "cold
                  >>>>>>>> brewing for full flavor". Interesting.
                  >>>>>>>>> When my parents when to Hawaii a couple of years ago, they returned
                  >>>>>>>> with some coffee that called for cold brewing. I brewed it cold in
                  >> the
                  >>>>>>>> French Press and it came out very good.
                  >>>>>>>>> The new filtron units are expensive and not very aesthetic (being
                  >>>>>>>> made out of dark brown plastic, with a clear polycarbonate
                  >>>>>>>> wine-decanter style carafe for the brewed coffee), but the older
                  >> glass
                  >>>>>>>> ones like Ron picked up are really worth the money just as
                  >>>>>>>> collectables and due to their beauty with the glass and different
                  >>>>>>>> colors/varieties of bakelite handles and parts, etc. I wouldn't have
                  >>>>>>>> been willing to pay the $30-$40 for the new one just to sample this
                  >>>>>>>> method, but if you find one second hand at a cheap price, then in my
                  >>>>>>>> opinion it's worth the few bucks.
                  >>>>>>>>> Also, there was an "interim" model that came out around the
                  >>>>>>>> 50's-60's which was after the glass models, but before the current
                  >>>>>>>> models. That model is made of a clear plastic upper with (I
                  >> believe) a
                  >>>>>>>> glass lower pot. They are not ugly like the brown plastic units, but
                  >>>>>>>> they do not have the same character as the vintage glass models.
                  >>>>>>>>> Roland
                  >>>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
                  >>>>>>>>> From: Larry Hollenberg
                  >>>>>>>>> To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                  >>>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                  >>>>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                  >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 6:46 PM
                  >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [vacpot] Filtron cold water coffee extractor
                  >>>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>>> Ron,
                  >>>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>>> I haven't got the answer you want, but would like you to let us
                  >> know
                  >>>>>>>> how you find the coffee it makes? I have always wondered about them
                  >>>>>>>> and I think that some time ago Roland was experimenting with one and
                  >>>>>>>> found it pretty good. We recently took a rail trip and in the
                  >> sleepers
                  >>>>>>>> they had gone from a drip style pot that made quite good coffee to a
                  >>>>>>>> liquid type that infused with hot water, which I think is a similar
                  >>>>>>>> idea. I would be interested in some other opinions of this method?
                  >>>>>>>>> Larry
                  >>>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>>> --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Ron McCray <stebchem@...> wrote:
                  >>>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>>>> From: Ron McCray <stebchem@...>
                  >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [vacpot] Filtron cold water coffee extractor
                  >>>>>>>>>> To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                  >>>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                  >>>>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                  >>>>>>>>>> Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 6:31 PM
                  >>>>>>>>>> We recently purchased one of the older, all-glass models
                  >>>>>>>>>> of the Filtron coffee extractor--the one with the lovely
                  >>>>>>>>>> butterscotch-colored handles. It came with a used filter
                  >>>>>>>>>> pad and, of course, we want to replace it with a new
                  >>>>>>>>>> filter. We see Filtron filter pads offered by various
                  >>>>>>>>>> coffee-related websites, but we're not sure they will
                  >>>>>>>>>> fit this older model of Filtron. Does anybody in our group
                  >>>>>>>>>> have experience with Filtrons (especially the older models
                  >>>>>>>>>> like ours) and have any advice about obtaining new filter
                  >>>>>>>>>> pads?
                  >>>>>>>>>> The Filtron company is still in business, but they ignored
                  >>>>>>>>>> our email in which we asked the question being posed here.
                  >>>>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>>>> Do the new Filtron filter pads fit the older model
                  >>>>>>>>>> extractors?
                  >>>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >>>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>> --
                  >>>>>>> www.chaicoffski.com.au
                  >>>>>>> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
                  >>>>>>> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
                  >>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>
                  >>>>>> --
                  >>>>>> www.chaicoffski.com.au
                  >>>>>> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
                  >>>>>> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>> ------------------------------------
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>> --
                  >>>> www.chaicoffski.com.au
                  >>>> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
                  >>>> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>> ------------------------------------
                  >>>
                  >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >> --
                  >> www.chaicoffski.com.au
                  >> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
                  >> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
                  >>
                  >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  --
                  www.chaicoffski.com.au
                  Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
                  Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
                • Dave Bellware
                  Here is a link to the SCAA Gold Standard certification, which you ll see contains zero references to sensory evaluation, and which contains the minimum and
                  Message 8 of 20 , Aug 2, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Here is a link to the SCAA Gold Standard certification, which you'll see
                    contains zero references to sensory evaluation, and which contains the
                    minimum and maximum amounts of coffee that are permitted. 35% less is well
                    outside of what is permitted to qualify.

                    http://www.scaa.org/PDF/2010/Golden%20Cup%20Informaton%20and%20Application_April2010_v2.pdf


                    On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:59 AM, Dave Bellware <bigbells@...> wrote:

                    > A laboratory approved by whom? SCAA does not use a Sensory Scale in its
                    > Gold Cup Standard, so any and all such references are irrelevant as far as
                    > meeting the Standard. The measurements made for Gold Cup relate solely to
                    > the amount of coffee extracted, from a mandated amount which you did not
                    > meet to begin with. I can extract the approved percentage using 90% less
                    > coffee, but I wouldn't like the taste of it. SCAA does not approve coffees,
                    > it approves preparation methods. I think the lab has hoodwinked somebody.
                    >
                    > Dave Bellware
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:42 AM, Ian Bersten <ian@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >> **
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Excuse me. The results were provided by an approved laboratory.
                    >>
                    >> *Evaluation of Brewing Method & Roasted Coffee Content comparing the
                    >> CHAICOFFSKI,*
                    >>
                    >> *a NEW way to brew coffee with some other methods*
                    >>
                    >> All results were based on the use of the same blend of coffee
                    >>
                    >> **
                    >>
                    >> *CONCLUSIONS:*
                    >>
                    >> All methods produced cups in the mid-range of Usual Good Quality for
                    >> Sensory Scale
                    >>
                    >> Chaicoffski 1 was almost within Golden Cup Standard. A brew time of
                    >> anotherhalf second would have improved results sufficiently to qualify
                    >>
                    >> The Hario V-60 took more than five times as long to brew as the
                    >> Chaicoffski 1
                    >>
                    >> The Aeropress used 250% more coffee and brewed for 33% longer than the
                    >> Chaicoffski 1
                    >>
                    >> The Bodum Press took *EIGHT* times as long to brew and used 50% more
                    >> coffee than Chaicoffski 1 -- 40 grams/liter and 30 seconds
                    >>
                    >> All seven methods provided different flavour analysis.
                    >>
                    >> There was a tiny improvement in Sensory score by raising the Chaicoffski
                    >> brewing time from 30 to 45 seconds
                    >>
                    >> *Using the Chaicoffski 1 -- 40 grams per liter and 30 seconds brew time
                    >> gives similar quality -- less time -- less coffee -- easier to prepare,
                    >> no paper filters or standing and pouring*
                    >>
                    >> All quantitative and sensorial data was provided by an independent
                    >> laboratory specializing in coffee approved by the SCAA.
                    >>
                    >> Copyright Chaicoffski Pty. Ltd.Sydney Australia 2013
                    >>
                    >> It is true that the results confirm what I am saying about the
                    >> Chaicoffski filter but I never mentioned the name on this site and there
                    >> was no intent in supplying the facts that I did, that I was trying to
                    >> sell the filter to members of this site.
                    >>
                    >> I do not appreciate ad hominem attacks
                    >>
                    >> The claims I made above are true.
                    >>
                    >> Ian Bersten
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> On 2/08/2013 4:08 PM, Dave Bellware wrote:
                    >> > By definition, the qualification standards for Gold Cup simply does not
                    >> > allow a reduction of 35% in the amount of coffee used. The claim you
                    >> make
                    >> > is therefore provably incorrect. The maximum permissible reduction in
                    >> > coffee amount is 23%, since the minimum amount that can be used is 92
                    >> grams
                    >> > and the maximum amount that can be used is 120 grams for the Gold Cup
                    >> > standard.
                    >> >
                    >> > However, when I clicked the link you provided, I see that you're selling
                    >> > your own product, which leads me to believe that the facts might not be
                    >> > your highest priority. I am not disparaging your filter, just the claims
                    >> > you make about it.
                    >> >
                    >> > Dave Bellware
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> > On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 1:36 AM, Ian Bersten <ian@...> wrote:
                    >> >
                    >> >> **
                    >>
                    >> >>
                    >> >>
                    >> >> There is an enormous difference between making Turkish coffee where
                    >> heat
                    >> >> is applied to boiling the coffee and pouring boiling water over coffee.
                    >> >> The latter never gets bitter until you apply more heat.
                    >> >>
                    >> >> Yes there is a difference between coffee steeped for longer times but
                    >> >> the major factor is the grind particle size.
                    >> >>
                    >> >> I have had tests done by an approved lab that proves that you can get
                    >> >> SCAA Goldcup standard with espresso grind coffee brewed for 30 seconds
                    >> >> using 35% less coffee. Other methodds using coarser grind coffee need
                    >> >> 50% more coffee and longer - up to eight times - brewing time.
                    >> >>
                    >> >> You are right - every combination of time, temperature and particle
                    >> size
                    >> >> makes a different flavour BUT the cold drip produces results that are
                    >> >> lower in dissolved solids.
                    >> >>
                    >> >> Try making a stew with cold water.
                    >> >>
                    >> >> happy brewing
                    >> >>
                    >> >> ian
                    >> >>
                    >> >>
                    >> >> On 2/08/2013 3:19 PM, Dave Bellware wrote:
                    >> >>> What my experiments with cold brewing have proved to me is that no
                    >> matter
                    >> >>> how much I think I know about coffee and coffee preparation, the book
                    >> is
                    >> >> by
                    >> >>> no means closed. As for the inefficiency of large particle size and
                    >> the
                    >> >>> resultant smaller surface area, the greatly increased steep time of
                    >> cold
                    >> >>> brewing negates much of that inefficiency, in my opinion. I've known
                    >> that
                    >> >>> from comparing short-steeped, finely ground vacuum brews to much
                    >> >>> longer-steeped drip brews with coffee that's much more coarsely
                    >> ground.
                    >> >>> Both are great but they are not the same.
                    >> >>>
                    >> >>> I can't remember where I saw it, but I've seen a chart that made some
                    >> >>> effort to graph the effects of steep time against particle size of the
                    >> >>> coffee.
                    >> >>>
                    >> >>> The point at which my thinking gets roadblocked is when I start to
                    >> think
                    >> >>> that the finest possible grind, such as a true Turkish grind, should
                    >> or
                    >> >>> does result in 100% of the ground coffee actually suspended in the
                    >> final
                    >> >>> brewed result. I don't happen to believe that such method results in
                    >> the
                    >> >>> best taste for my personal preferences. If I presume that I don't want
                    >> >> ALL
                    >> >>> of the coffee bean to be imparted to the coffee I drink, then that
                    >> means
                    >> >> to
                    >> >>> me that each and every variable can be manipulated to produce pleasing
                    >> >>> results, and that there are absolutely no hard and fast rules for the
                    >> >> best
                    >> >>> results.
                    >> >>>
                    >> >>> Dave Bellware
                    >> >>>
                    >> >>>
                    >> >>> On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 8:26 PM, Ian Bersten <ian@...>
                    >> wrote:
                    >> >>>
                    >> >>>> **
                    >> >>>>
                    >> >>>> Of course I have tried coffee made with cold water.
                    >> >>>>
                    >> >>>> Fact - coffee extraction is proportional to surface area of
                    >> particles.
                    >> >>>> Coarse ground coffee means poor extraction.
                    >> >>>> The lower temperature means that some components will never dissolve.
                    >> >>>> The combination of the two means weak extraction.
                    >> >>>>
                    >> >>>> It is my guess that if you took the wet grounds and dried them out
                    >> in an
                    >> >>>> oven and then reground them fine that you would get a better cup of
                    >> >> coffee.
                    >> >>>> I am not sure with coffee but I am sure with tea - I have done the
                    >> >>>> experiment.
                    >> >>>>
                    >> >>>> Please make the following experiment
                    >> >>>>
                    >> >>>> take come coffee - grind it coarse and make with cold water.
                    >> >>>> Take the same coffee and grind it espresso grind - pour boiling water
                    >> >>>> over it and leave for 30-60 seconds and compare.
                    >> >>>>
                    >> >>>> Ian
                    >> >>>>
                    >> >>>>
                    >> >>>> On 2/08/2013 9:45 AM, Giuseppe Marrari wrote:
                    >> >>>>> Never tried cold press huh?
                    >> >>>>>
                    >> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
                    >> >>>>> From: "Ian Bersten" <ian@... <mailto:ian%40helian.net.au
                    >> >>
                    >> >>>>> Sent: 8/1/2013 6:27 PM
                    >> >>>>> To: "vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                    >> >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>"
                    >> >>>>> <vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                    >> >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>>
                    >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [vacpot] Re: Filtron cold water coffee extractor
                    >> >>>>>
                    >> >>>>> I always thought the idea of making a cup of coffee was to extract
                    >> the
                    >> >>>>> flavour. Why anyone would want to use a brewer that used cold water
                    >> and
                    >> >>>>> under-extracted is beyond me. If you seriously want to make weak
                    >> >>>>> coffee, take a small amount of coffee, brew with hot water. If you
                    >> want
                    >> >>>>> to drink it cold, just let it cool.
                    >> >>>>>
                    >> >>>>> It just goes to prove that there is an inner urge to find new idols
                    >> >>>>> within the cult of coffee - that there must be some other way to
                    >> make a
                    >> >>>>> cup of coffee that will in some unspecified way take us to coffee
                    >> >>>>> Nirvana and impress all those around us who belong to another cult
                    >> and
                    >> >>>>> have manifestly failed to make a cup of coffee with a method that
                    >> >> defies
                    >> >>>>> comprehension.
                    >> >>>>>
                    >> >>>>> The rule is : if it defies comprehension it probably doesn't make
                    >> good
                    >> >>>>> coffee.
                    >> >>>>> Good coffee is made following established and known principles.
                    >> >>>>> 'Ian
                    >> >>>>>
                    >> >>>>> On 2/08/2013 7:40 AM, Larry Hollenberg wrote:
                    >> >>>>>> Leonard,
                    >> >>>>>>
                    >> >>>>>> Google Filtron instructions an you will find quite a number of
                    >> sites
                    >> >>>>>> that either have it or discuss it.
                    >> >>>>>>
                    >> >>>>>> Larry
                    >> >>>>>>
                    >> >>>>>> ________________________________
                    >> >>>>>> From: eccopronto <lennylenny@... <mailto:lennylenny%40me.com>
                    >> >>>>> <mailto:lennylenny%40me.com>>
                    >> >>>>>> To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                    >> >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                    >> >>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                    >> >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 3:08 PM
                    >> >>>>>> Subject: [vacpot] Re: Filtron cold water coffee extractor
                    >> >>>>>>
                    >> >>>>>>
                    >> >>>>>>
                    >> >>>>>> I have one of these units too. I have it displayed in a great spot
                    >> in
                    >> >>>>>> my kitchen. It's sort of an amazing unit to display.
                    >> >>>>>>
                    >> >>>>>> BUT, I do not have a clue how to use an old filtron. It has cone
                    >> >>>>>> shaped filters, cloth filters, a screw on filter...
                    >> >>>>>>
                    >> >>>>>> If anyone could post a blow-by-blow list of instructions, I would
                    >> be
                    >> >>>>>> very happy and grateful. In the meanwhile, I will continue to look,
                    >> >>>>>> but not actually use it!
                    >> >>>>>>
                    >> >>>>>> (I like to use my stuff!)
                    >> >>>>>>
                    >> >>>>>> Thanks
                    >> >>>>>>
                    >> >>>>>> Best
                    >> >>>>>> Leonard
                    >> >>>>>>
                    >> >>>>>> --- In vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                    >> >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                    >> >>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>, <rsburritt@
                    >> ...>
                    >> >>>>>> wrote:
                    >> >>>>>>> Hi Larry, I have a filtron (one of the newer models) that I picked
                    >> >>>>>> up in a thrift store and have used it several times. The brewed
                    >> >>>>>> product is pretty good. It is not the same as vacpot coffee, but
                    >> it's
                    >> >>>>>> also a pleasant difference from drip coffee. I would say that the
                    >> cold
                    >> >>>>>> brewing process gives the beverage a mildly exotic flavor. One
                    >> thing
                    >> >>>>>> that I've noticed lately is that cold-brewing seems to be coming
                    >> more
                    >> >>>>>> into style, or at least with some of the designer coffees that I've
                    >> >>>>>> picked up in the store and looked at the bag, they recommend "cold
                    >> >>>>>> brewing for full flavor". Interesting.
                    >> >>>>>>> When my parents when to Hawaii a couple of years ago, they
                    >> returned
                    >> >>>>>> with some coffee that called for cold brewing. I brewed it cold in
                    >> the
                    >> >>>>>> French Press and it came out very good.
                    >> >>>>>>> The new filtron units are expensive and not very aesthetic (being
                    >> >>>>>> made out of dark brown plastic, with a clear polycarbonate
                    >> >>>>>> wine-decanter style carafe for the brewed coffee), but the older
                    >> glass
                    >> >>>>>> ones like Ron picked up are really worth the money just as
                    >> >>>>>> collectables and due to their beauty with the glass and different
                    >> >>>>>> colors/varieties of bakelite handles and parts, etc. I wouldn't
                    >> have
                    >> >>>>>> been willing to pay the $30-$40 for the new one just to sample this
                    >> >>>>>> method, but if you find one second hand at a cheap price, then in
                    >> my
                    >> >>>>>> opinion it's worth the few bucks.
                    >> >>>>>>> Also, there was an "interim" model that came out around the
                    >> >>>>>> 50's-60's which was after the glass models, but before the current
                    >> >>>>>> models. That model is made of a clear plastic upper with (I
                    >> believe) a
                    >> >>>>>> glass lower pot. They are not ugly like the brown plastic units,
                    >> but
                    >> >>>>>> they do not have the same character as the vintage glass models.
                    >> >>>>>>> Roland
                    >> >>>>>>>
                    >> >>>>>>>
                    >> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
                    >> >>>>>>> From: Larry Hollenberg
                    >> >>>>>>> To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                    >> >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                    >> >>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                    >> >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 6:46 PM
                    >> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [vacpot] Filtron cold water coffee extractor
                    >> >>>>>>>
                    >> >>>>>>>
                    >> >>>>>>> Ron,
                    >> >>>>>>>
                    >> >>>>>>> I haven't got the answer you want, but would like you to let us
                    >> know
                    >> >>>>>> how you find the coffee it makes? I have always wondered about them
                    >> >>>>>> and I think that some time ago Roland was experimenting with one
                    >> and
                    >> >>>>>> found it pretty good. We recently took a rail trip and in the
                    >> sleepers
                    >> >>>>>> they had gone from a drip style pot that made quite good coffee to
                    >> a
                    >> >>>>>> liquid type that infused with hot water, which I think is a similar
                    >> >>>>>> idea. I would be interested in some other opinions of this method?
                    >> >>>>>>> Larry
                    >> >>>>>>>
                    >> >>>>>>> --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Ron McCray <stebchem@...> wrote:
                    >> >>>>>>>
                    >> >>>>>>>> From: Ron McCray <stebchem@...>
                    >> >>>>>>>> Subject: [vacpot] Filtron cold water coffee extractor
                    >> >>>>>>>> To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                    >> >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                    >> >>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                    >> >>>>>>>> Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 6:31 PM
                    >> >>>>>>>> We recently purchased one of the older, all-glass models
                    >> >>>>>>>> of the Filtron coffee extractor--the one with the lovely
                    >> >>>>>>>> butterscotch-colored handles. It came with a used filter
                    >> >>>>>>>> pad and, of course, we want to replace it with a new
                    >> >>>>>>>> filter. We see Filtron filter pads offered by various
                    >> >>>>>>>> coffee-related websites, but we're not sure they will
                    >> >>>>>>>> fit this older model of Filtron. Does anybody in our group
                    >> >>>>>>>> have experience with Filtrons (especially the older models
                    >> >>>>>>>> like ours) and have any advice about obtaining new filter
                    >> >>>>>>>> pads?
                    >> >>>>>>>> The Filtron company is still in business, but they ignored
                    >> >>>>>>>> our email in which we asked the question being posed here.
                    >> >>>>>>>>
                    >> >>>>>>>> Do the new Filtron filter pads fit the older model
                    >> >>>>>>>> extractors?
                    >> >>>>>>>
                    >> >>>>>>>
                    >> >>>>>>>
                    >> >>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >> >>>>>>>
                    >> >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >> >>>>>>
                    >> >>>>>>
                    >> >>>>> --
                    >> >>>>> www.chaicoffski.com.au
                    >> >>>>> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
                    >> >>>>> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
                    >> >>>>>
                    >> >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >> >>>>>
                    >> >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >> >>>>>
                    >> >>>>>
                    >> >>>> --
                    >> >>>> www.chaicoffski.com.au
                    >> >>>> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
                    >> >>>> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
                    >> >>>>
                    >> >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >> >>>>
                    >> >>>>
                    >> >>>>
                    >> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >> >>>
                    >> >>>
                    >> >>>
                    >> >>> ------------------------------------
                    >> >>>
                    >> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >> >>>
                    >> >>>
                    >> >> --
                    >> >> www.chaicoffski.com.au
                    >> >> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
                    >> >> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
                    >> >>
                    >> >>
                    >> >>
                    >> >
                    >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> > ------------------------------------
                    >> >
                    >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >>
                    >> --
                    >> www.chaicoffski.com.au
                    >> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
                    >> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
                    >>
                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Philip
                    Well, this discussion has become a bit too lively I m afraid. Time for a deep breath. Let s remember that we are all entitled to share our opinions and to
                    Message 9 of 20 , Aug 2, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Well, this discussion has become a bit too lively I'm afraid. Time for a deep breath. Let's remember that we are all entitled to share our opinions and to differ on any topic, but we draw a line when ANY person's integrity is questioned. As a moderator I must insist that we all adhere to this policy.

                      Dave, your views are most welcome in this group and your contributions are very much appreciated. That said, I hope you truly appreciate who Ian is, his impeccable credentials with regards to the subject of coffee and the brewing of coffee and his many years of kind assistance to all of us in this group. Google Ian if you need to. Ian's lifetime of achievements and international standing as a genuine authority on these subjects cannot be overstated. Most of all, Ian has a proven lifetime of personal and professional integrity which I must insist that you respect along with the integrity of all members of the group. Naturally all must respect your integrity as well. Ian has NEVER sought to sell anything to this group or even ask for the recognition he deserves. His humility in his posts is a matter of record you can look up for yourself in the archives.

                      Feel free to carry on your discussion and be as passionate as you like about your view Dave, but please limit the discussion to the topic and not the participants.

                      Thank you all for your participation in this group.

                      Philip

                      --- In vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com, Dave Bellware <bigbells@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Here is a link to the SCAA Gold Standard certification, which you'll see
                      > contains zero references to sensory evaluation, and which contains the
                      > minimum and maximum amounts of coffee that are permitted. 35% less is well
                      > outside of what is permitted to qualify.
                      >
                      > http://www.scaa.org/PDF/2010/Golden%20Cup%20Informaton%20and%20Application_April2010_v2.pdf
                      >
                      >
                      > On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:59 AM, Dave Bellware <bigbells@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > A laboratory approved by whom? SCAA does not use a Sensory Scale in its
                      > > Gold Cup Standard, so any and all such references are irrelevant as far as
                      > > meeting the Standard. The measurements made for Gold Cup relate solely to
                      > > the amount of coffee extracted, from a mandated amount which you did not
                      > > meet to begin with. I can extract the approved percentage using 90% less
                      > > coffee, but I wouldn't like the taste of it. SCAA does not approve coffees,
                      > > it approves preparation methods. I think the lab has hoodwinked somebody.
                      > >
                      > > Dave Bellware
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:42 AM, Ian Bersten <ian@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >> **
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >> Excuse me. The results were provided by an approved laboratory.
                      > >>
                      > >> *Evaluation of Brewing Method & Roasted Coffee Content comparing the
                      > >> CHAICOFFSKI,*
                      > >>
                      > >> *a NEW way to brew coffee with some other methods*
                      > >>
                      > >> All results were based on the use of the same blend of coffee
                      > >>
                      > >> **
                      > >>
                      > >> *CONCLUSIONS:*
                      > >>
                      > >> All methods produced cups in the mid-range of Usual Good Quality for
                      > >> Sensory Scale
                      > >>
                      > >> Chaicoffski 1 was almost within Golden Cup Standard. A brew time of
                      > >> anotherhalf second would have improved results sufficiently to qualify
                      > >>
                      > >> The Hario V-60 took more than five times as long to brew as the
                      > >> Chaicoffski 1
                      > >>
                      > >> The Aeropress used 250% more coffee and brewed for 33% longer than the
                      > >> Chaicoffski 1
                      > >>
                      > >> The Bodum Press took *EIGHT* times as long to brew and used 50% more
                      > >> coffee than Chaicoffski 1 -- 40 grams/liter and 30 seconds
                      > >>
                      > >> All seven methods provided different flavour analysis.
                      > >>
                      > >> There was a tiny improvement in Sensory score by raising the Chaicoffski
                      > >> brewing time from 30 to 45 seconds
                      > >>
                      > >> *Using the Chaicoffski 1 -- 40 grams per liter and 30 seconds brew time
                      > >> gives similar quality -- less time -- less coffee -- easier to prepare,
                      > >> no paper filters or standing and pouring*
                      > >>
                      > >> All quantitative and sensorial data was provided by an independent
                      > >> laboratory specializing in coffee approved by the SCAA.
                      > >>
                      > >> Copyright Chaicoffski Pty. Ltd.Sydney Australia 2013
                      > >>
                      > >> It is true that the results confirm what I am saying about the
                      > >> Chaicoffski filter but I never mentioned the name on this site and there
                      > >> was no intent in supplying the facts that I did, that I was trying to
                      > >> sell the filter to members of this site.
                      > >>
                      > >> I do not appreciate ad hominem attacks
                      > >>
                      > >> The claims I made above are true.
                      > >>
                      > >> Ian Bersten
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >> On 2/08/2013 4:08 PM, Dave Bellware wrote:
                      > >> > By definition, the qualification standards for Gold Cup simply does not
                      > >> > allow a reduction of 35% in the amount of coffee used. The claim you
                      > >> make
                      > >> > is therefore provably incorrect. The maximum permissible reduction in
                      > >> > coffee amount is 23%, since the minimum amount that can be used is 92
                      > >> grams
                      > >> > and the maximum amount that can be used is 120 grams for the Gold Cup
                      > >> > standard.
                      > >> >
                      > >> > However, when I clicked the link you provided, I see that you're selling
                      > >> > your own product, which leads me to believe that the facts might not be
                      > >> > your highest priority. I am not disparaging your filter, just the claims
                      > >> > you make about it.
                      > >> >
                      > >> > Dave Bellware
                      > >> >
                      > >> >
                      > >> > On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 1:36 AM, Ian Bersten <ian@...> wrote:
                      > >> >
                      > >> >> **
                      > >>
                      > >> >>
                      > >> >>
                      > >> >> There is an enormous difference between making Turkish coffee where
                      > >> heat
                      > >> >> is applied to boiling the coffee and pouring boiling water over coffee.
                      > >> >> The latter never gets bitter until you apply more heat.
                      > >> >>
                      > >> >> Yes there is a difference between coffee steeped for longer times but
                      > >> >> the major factor is the grind particle size.
                      > >> >>
                      > >> >> I have had tests done by an approved lab that proves that you can get
                      > >> >> SCAA Goldcup standard with espresso grind coffee brewed for 30 seconds
                      > >> >> using 35% less coffee. Other methodds using coarser grind coffee need
                      > >> >> 50% more coffee and longer - up to eight times - brewing time.
                      > >> >>
                      > >> >> You are right - every combination of time, temperature and particle
                      > >> size
                      > >> >> makes a different flavour BUT the cold drip produces results that are
                      > >> >> lower in dissolved solids.
                      > >> >>
                      > >> >> Try making a stew with cold water.
                      > >> >>
                      > >> >> happy brewing
                      > >> >>
                      > >> >> ian
                      > >> >>
                      > >> >>
                      > >> >> On 2/08/2013 3:19 PM, Dave Bellware wrote:
                      > >> >>> What my experiments with cold brewing have proved to me is that no
                      > >> matter
                      > >> >>> how much I think I know about coffee and coffee preparation, the book
                      > >> is
                      > >> >> by
                      > >> >>> no means closed. As for the inefficiency of large particle size and
                      > >> the
                      > >> >>> resultant smaller surface area, the greatly increased steep time of
                      > >> cold
                      > >> >>> brewing negates much of that inefficiency, in my opinion. I've known
                      > >> that
                      > >> >>> from comparing short-steeped, finely ground vacuum brews to much
                      > >> >>> longer-steeped drip brews with coffee that's much more coarsely
                      > >> ground.
                      > >> >>> Both are great but they are not the same.
                      > >> >>>
                      > >> >>> I can't remember where I saw it, but I've seen a chart that made some
                      > >> >>> effort to graph the effects of steep time against particle size of the
                      > >> >>> coffee.
                      > >> >>>
                      > >> >>> The point at which my thinking gets roadblocked is when I start to
                      > >> think
                      > >> >>> that the finest possible grind, such as a true Turkish grind, should
                      > >> or
                      > >> >>> does result in 100% of the ground coffee actually suspended in the
                      > >> final
                      > >> >>> brewed result. I don't happen to believe that such method results in
                      > >> the
                      > >> >>> best taste for my personal preferences. If I presume that I don't want
                      > >> >> ALL
                      > >> >>> of the coffee bean to be imparted to the coffee I drink, then that
                      > >> means
                      > >> >> to
                      > >> >>> me that each and every variable can be manipulated to produce pleasing
                      > >> >>> results, and that there are absolutely no hard and fast rules for the
                      > >> >> best
                      > >> >>> results.
                      > >> >>>
                      > >> >>> Dave Bellware
                      > >> >>>
                      > >> >>>
                      > >> >>> On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 8:26 PM, Ian Bersten <ian@...>
                      > >> wrote:
                      > >> >>>
                      > >> >>>> **
                      > >> >>>>
                      > >> >>>> Of course I have tried coffee made with cold water.
                      > >> >>>>
                      > >> >>>> Fact - coffee extraction is proportional to surface area of
                      > >> particles.
                      > >> >>>> Coarse ground coffee means poor extraction.
                      > >> >>>> The lower temperature means that some components will never dissolve.
                      > >> >>>> The combination of the two means weak extraction.
                      > >> >>>>
                      > >> >>>> It is my guess that if you took the wet grounds and dried them out
                      > >> in an
                      > >> >>>> oven and then reground them fine that you would get a better cup of
                      > >> >> coffee.
                      > >> >>>> I am not sure with coffee but I am sure with tea - I have done the
                      > >> >>>> experiment.
                      > >> >>>>
                      > >> >>>> Please make the following experiment
                      > >> >>>>
                      > >> >>>> take come coffee - grind it coarse and make with cold water.
                      > >> >>>> Take the same coffee and grind it espresso grind - pour boiling water
                      > >> >>>> over it and leave for 30-60 seconds and compare.
                      > >> >>>>
                      > >> >>>> Ian
                      > >> >>>>
                      > >> >>>>
                      > >> >>>> On 2/08/2013 9:45 AM, Giuseppe Marrari wrote:
                      > >> >>>>> Never tried cold press huh?
                      > >> >>>>>
                      > >> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
                      > >> >>>>> From: "Ian Bersten" <ian@... <mailto:ian%40helian.net.au
                      > >> >>
                      > >> >>>>> Sent: 8/1/2013 6:27 PM
                      > >> >>>>> To: "vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                      > >> >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>"
                      > >> >>>>> <vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                      > >> >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>>
                      > >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [vacpot] Re: Filtron cold water coffee extractor
                      > >> >>>>>
                      > >> >>>>> I always thought the idea of making a cup of coffee was to extract
                      > >> the
                      > >> >>>>> flavour. Why anyone would want to use a brewer that used cold water
                      > >> and
                      > >> >>>>> under-extracted is beyond me. If you seriously want to make weak
                      > >> >>>>> coffee, take a small amount of coffee, brew with hot water. If you
                      > >> want
                      > >> >>>>> to drink it cold, just let it cool.
                      > >> >>>>>
                      > >> >>>>> It just goes to prove that there is an inner urge to find new idols
                      > >> >>>>> within the cult of coffee - that there must be some other way to
                      > >> make a
                      > >> >>>>> cup of coffee that will in some unspecified way take us to coffee
                      > >> >>>>> Nirvana and impress all those around us who belong to another cult
                      > >> and
                      > >> >>>>> have manifestly failed to make a cup of coffee with a method that
                      > >> >> defies
                      > >> >>>>> comprehension.
                      > >> >>>>>
                      > >> >>>>> The rule is : if it defies comprehension it probably doesn't make
                      > >> good
                      > >> >>>>> coffee.
                      > >> >>>>> Good coffee is made following established and known principles.
                      > >> >>>>> 'Ian
                      > >> >>>>>
                      > >> >>>>> On 2/08/2013 7:40 AM, Larry Hollenberg wrote:
                      > >> >>>>>> Leonard,
                      > >> >>>>>>
                      > >> >>>>>> Google Filtron instructions an you will find quite a number of
                      > >> sites
                      > >> >>>>>> that either have it or discuss it.
                      > >> >>>>>>
                      > >> >>>>>> Larry
                      > >> >>>>>>
                      > >> >>>>>> ________________________________
                      > >> >>>>>> From: eccopronto <lennylenny@... <mailto:lennylenny%40me.com>
                      > >> >>>>> <mailto:lennylenny%40me.com>>
                      > >> >>>>>> To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                      > >> >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > >> >>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > >> >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 3:08 PM
                      > >> >>>>>> Subject: [vacpot] Re: Filtron cold water coffee extractor
                      > >> >>>>>>
                      > >> >>>>>>
                      > >> >>>>>>
                      > >> >>>>>> I have one of these units too. I have it displayed in a great spot
                      > >> in
                      > >> >>>>>> my kitchen. It's sort of an amazing unit to display.
                      > >> >>>>>>
                      > >> >>>>>> BUT, I do not have a clue how to use an old filtron. It has cone
                      > >> >>>>>> shaped filters, cloth filters, a screw on filter...
                      > >> >>>>>>
                      > >> >>>>>> If anyone could post a blow-by-blow list of instructions, I would
                      > >> be
                      > >> >>>>>> very happy and grateful. In the meanwhile, I will continue to look,
                      > >> >>>>>> but not actually use it!
                      > >> >>>>>>
                      > >> >>>>>> (I like to use my stuff!)
                      > >> >>>>>>
                      > >> >>>>>> Thanks
                      > >> >>>>>>
                      > >> >>>>>> Best
                      > >> >>>>>> Leonard
                      > >> >>>>>>
                      > >> >>>>>> --- In vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                      > >> >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > >> >>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>, <rsburritt@
                      > >> ...>
                      > >> >>>>>> wrote:
                      > >> >>>>>>> Hi Larry, I have a filtron (one of the newer models) that I picked
                      > >> >>>>>> up in a thrift store and have used it several times. The brewed
                      > >> >>>>>> product is pretty good. It is not the same as vacpot coffee, but
                      > >> it's
                      > >> >>>>>> also a pleasant difference from drip coffee. I would say that the
                      > >> cold
                      > >> >>>>>> brewing process gives the beverage a mildly exotic flavor. One
                      > >> thing
                      > >> >>>>>> that I've noticed lately is that cold-brewing seems to be coming
                      > >> more
                      > >> >>>>>> into style, or at least with some of the designer coffees that I've
                      > >> >>>>>> picked up in the store and looked at the bag, they recommend "cold
                      > >> >>>>>> brewing for full flavor". Interesting.
                      > >> >>>>>>> When my parents when to Hawaii a couple of years ago, they
                      > >> returned
                      > >> >>>>>> with some coffee that called for cold brewing. I brewed it cold in
                      > >> the
                      > >> >>>>>> French Press and it came out very good.
                      > >> >>>>>>> The new filtron units are expensive and not very aesthetic (being
                      > >> >>>>>> made out of dark brown plastic, with a clear polycarbonate
                      > >> >>>>>> wine-decanter style carafe for the brewed coffee), but the older
                      > >> glass
                      > >> >>>>>> ones like Ron picked up are really worth the money just as
                      > >> >>>>>> collectables and due to their beauty with the glass and different
                      > >> >>>>>> colors/varieties of bakelite handles and parts, etc. I wouldn't
                      > >> have
                      > >> >>>>>> been willing to pay the $30-$40 for the new one just to sample this
                      > >> >>>>>> method, but if you find one second hand at a cheap price, then in
                      > >> my
                      > >> >>>>>> opinion it's worth the few bucks.
                      > >> >>>>>>> Also, there was an "interim" model that came out around the
                      > >> >>>>>> 50's-60's which was after the glass models, but before the current
                      > >> >>>>>> models. That model is made of a clear plastic upper with (I
                      > >> believe) a
                      > >> >>>>>> glass lower pot. They are not ugly like the brown plastic units,
                      > >> but
                      > >> >>>>>> they do not have the same character as the vintage glass models.
                      > >> >>>>>>> Roland
                      > >> >>>>>>>
                      > >> >>>>>>>
                      > >> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
                      > >> >>>>>>> From: Larry Hollenberg
                      > >> >>>>>>> To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                      > >> >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > >> >>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > >> >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 6:46 PM
                      > >> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [vacpot] Filtron cold water coffee extractor
                      > >> >>>>>>>
                      > >> >>>>>>>
                      > >> >>>>>>> Ron,
                      > >> >>>>>>>
                      > >> >>>>>>> I haven't got the answer you want, but would like you to let us
                      > >> know
                      > >> >>>>>> how you find the coffee it makes? I have always wondered about them
                      > >> >>>>>> and I think that some time ago Roland was experimenting with one
                      > >> and
                      > >> >>>>>> found it pretty good. We recently took a rail trip and in the
                      > >> sleepers
                      > >> >>>>>> they had gone from a drip style pot that made quite good coffee to
                      > >> a
                      > >> >>>>>> liquid type that infused with hot water, which I think is a similar
                      > >> >>>>>> idea. I would be interested in some other opinions of this method?
                      > >> >>>>>>> Larry
                      > >> >>>>>>>
                      > >> >>>>>>> --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Ron McCray <stebchem@> wrote:
                      > >> >>>>>>>
                      > >> >>>>>>>> From: Ron McCray <stebchem@>
                      > >> >>>>>>>> Subject: [vacpot] Filtron cold water coffee extractor
                      > >> >>>>>>>> To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                      > >> >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > >> >>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > >> >>>>>>>> Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 6:31 PM
                      > >> >>>>>>>> We recently purchased one of the older, all-glass models
                      > >> >>>>>>>> of the Filtron coffee extractor--the one with the lovely
                      > >> >>>>>>>> butterscotch-colored handles. It came with a used filter
                      > >> >>>>>>>> pad and, of course, we want to replace it with a new
                      > >> >>>>>>>> filter. We see Filtron filter pads offered by various
                      > >> >>>>>>>> coffee-related websites, but we're not sure they will
                      > >> >>>>>>>> fit this older model of Filtron. Does anybody in our group
                      > >> >>>>>>>> have experience with Filtrons (especially the older models
                      > >> >>>>>>>> like ours) and have any advice about obtaining new filter
                      > >> >>>>>>>> pads?
                      > >> >>>>>>>> The Filtron company is still in business, but they ignored
                      > >> >>>>>>>> our email in which we asked the question being posed here.
                      > >> >>>>>>>>
                      > >> >>>>>>>> Do the new Filtron filter pads fit the older model
                      > >> >>>>>>>> extractors?
                      > >> >>>>>>>
                      > >> >>>>>>>
                      > >> >>>>>>>
                      > >> >>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >> >>>>>>>
                      > >> >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >> >>>>>>
                      > >> >>>>>>
                      > >> >>>>> --
                      > >> >>>>> www.chaicoffski.com.au
                      > >> >>>>> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
                      > >> >>>>> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
                      > >> >>>>>
                      > >> >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >> >>>>>
                      > >> >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >> >>>>>
                      > >> >>>>>
                      > >> >>>> --
                      > >> >>>> www.chaicoffski.com.au
                      > >> >>>> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
                      > >> >>>> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
                      > >> >>>>
                      > >> >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >> >>>>
                      > >> >>>>
                      > >> >>>>
                      > >> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >> >>>
                      > >> >>>
                      > >> >>>
                      > >> >>> ------------------------------------
                      > >> >>>
                      > >> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >> >>>
                      > >> >>>
                      > >> >> --
                      > >> >> www.chaicoffski.com.au
                      > >> >> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
                      > >> >> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
                      > >> >>
                      > >> >>
                      > >> >>
                      > >> >
                      > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >> >
                      > >> >
                      > >> >
                      > >> > ------------------------------------
                      > >> >
                      > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >> >
                      > >> >
                      > >> >
                      > >>
                      > >> --
                      > >> www.chaicoffski.com.au
                      > >> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
                      > >> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
                      > >>
                      > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Ian Bersten
                      Hello Ian Thank you for forwarding your inquiry, we are happy to help answer these questions. Our laboratory is certified by the Specialty Coffee Association
                      Message 10 of 20 , Aug 2, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hello Ian

                        Thank you for forwarding your inquiry, we are happy to help answer these
                        questions.

                        Our laboratory is certified by the Specialty Coffee Association of
                        America as a teaching laboratory and confirmed to follow all SCAA
                        standards and protocols. Our staff is made up of experienced and
                        educated coffee industry professionals who each have earned coffee
                        industry certifications and licenses. The laboratory does not certify
                        products on behalf of the SCAA.

                        The Golden Cup Standard, which is used by the SCAA to measure the brew
                        solids and extraction percentages is a measurement calculated by the
                        specific details and measurements of the water, coffee grind, dosage and
                        brewing process. Golden Cups is a measured relationship between the
                        coffee dosage, grind particle size, and water quantity producing a
                        beverage between 18% and 22% extraction from the coffee and 1150 TDS to
                        1350 TDS in the beverage. The recipe for brewing (brewing ration) is
                        flexible and can be increased or decreased based on the brewing
                        equipment or beverage preparation size.

                        Sensory evaluations are not part of the SCAA Golden Cup Standards; these
                        tests are independent and were conducted by a trained sensory panel.

                        The report provided showed both the extraction details and sensory scores.

                        The writer is correct that coffee items can be manipulated to perform
                        well using Golden Cup Standards; however this does not mean that the
                        coffee will be enjoyed for flavor and aroma attributes. This is the
                        reason why both tests were completed.

                        Please let me know if you have any additional questions or concerns.

                        Spencer Turer

                        Coffee Analysts

                        On 2/08/2013 5:08 PM, Dave Bellware wrote:
                        > Here is a link to the SCAA Gold Standard certification, which you'll see
                        > contains zero references to sensory evaluation, and which contains the
                        > minimum and maximum amounts of coffee that are permitted. 35% less is well
                        > outside of what is permitted to qualify.
                        >
                        > http://www.scaa.org/PDF/2010/Golden%20Cup%20Informaton%20and%20Application_April2010_v2.pdf
                        >
                        >
                        > On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:59 AM, Dave Bellware <bigbells@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >> A laboratory approved by whom? SCAA does not use a Sensory Scale in its
                        >> Gold Cup Standard, so any and all such references are irrelevant as far as
                        >> meeting the Standard. The measurements made for Gold Cup relate solely to
                        >> the amount of coffee extracted, from a mandated amount which you did not
                        >> meet to begin with. I can extract the approved percentage using 90% less
                        >> coffee, but I wouldn't like the taste of it. SCAA does not approve coffees,
                        >> it approves preparation methods. I think the lab has hoodwinked somebody.
                        >>
                        >> Dave Bellware
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:42 AM, Ian Bersten <ian@...> wrote:
                        >>
                        >>> **
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>> Excuse me. The results were provided by an approved laboratory.
                        >>>
                        >>> *Evaluation of Brewing Method & Roasted Coffee Content comparing the
                        >>> CHAICOFFSKI,*
                        >>>
                        >>> *a NEW way to brew coffee with some other methods*
                        >>>
                        >>> All results were based on the use of the same blend of coffee
                        >>>
                        >>> **
                        >>>
                        >>> *CONCLUSIONS:*
                        >>>
                        >>> All methods produced cups in the mid-range of Usual Good Quality for
                        >>> Sensory Scale
                        >>>
                        >>> Chaicoffski 1 was almost within Golden Cup Standard. A brew time of
                        >>> anotherhalf second would have improved results sufficiently to qualify
                        >>>
                        >>> The Hario V-60 took more than five times as long to brew as the
                        >>> Chaicoffski 1
                        >>>
                        >>> The Aeropress used 250% more coffee and brewed for 33% longer than the
                        >>> Chaicoffski 1
                        >>>
                        >>> The Bodum Press took *EIGHT* times as long to brew and used 50% more
                        >>> coffee than Chaicoffski 1 -- 40 grams/liter and 30 seconds
                        >>>
                        >>> All seven methods provided different flavour analysis.
                        >>>
                        >>> There was a tiny improvement in Sensory score by raising the Chaicoffski
                        >>> brewing time from 30 to 45 seconds
                        >>>
                        >>> *Using the Chaicoffski 1 -- 40 grams per liter and 30 seconds brew time
                        >>> gives similar quality -- less time -- less coffee -- easier to prepare,
                        >>> no paper filters or standing and pouring*
                        >>>
                        >>> All quantitative and sensorial data was provided by an independent
                        >>> laboratory specializing in coffee approved by the SCAA.
                        >>>
                        >>> Copyright Chaicoffski Pty. Ltd.Sydney Australia 2013
                        >>>
                        >>> It is true that the results confirm what I am saying about the
                        >>> Chaicoffski filter but I never mentioned the name on this site and there
                        >>> was no intent in supplying the facts that I did, that I was trying to
                        >>> sell the filter to members of this site.
                        >>>
                        >>> I do not appreciate ad hominem attacks
                        >>>
                        >>> The claims I made above are true.
                        >>>
                        >>> Ian Bersten
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>> On 2/08/2013 4:08 PM, Dave Bellware wrote:
                        >>>> By definition, the qualification standards for Gold Cup simply does not
                        >>>> allow a reduction of 35% in the amount of coffee used. The claim you
                        >>> make
                        >>>> is therefore provably incorrect. The maximum permissible reduction in
                        >>>> coffee amount is 23%, since the minimum amount that can be used is 92
                        >>> grams
                        >>>> and the maximum amount that can be used is 120 grams for the Gold Cup
                        >>>> standard.
                        >>>>
                        >>>> However, when I clicked the link you provided, I see that you're selling
                        >>>> your own product, which leads me to believe that the facts might not be
                        >>>> your highest priority. I am not disparaging your filter, just the claims
                        >>>> you make about it.
                        >>>>
                        >>>> Dave Bellware
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 1:36 AM, Ian Bersten <ian@...> wrote:
                        >>>>
                        >>>>> **
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>> There is an enormous difference between making Turkish coffee where
                        >>> heat
                        >>>>> is applied to boiling the coffee and pouring boiling water over coffee.
                        >>>>> The latter never gets bitter until you apply more heat.
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>> Yes there is a difference between coffee steeped for longer times but
                        >>>>> the major factor is the grind particle size.
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>> I have had tests done by an approved lab that proves that you can get
                        >>>>> SCAA Goldcup standard with espresso grind coffee brewed for 30 seconds
                        >>>>> using 35% less coffee. Other methodds using coarser grind coffee need
                        >>>>> 50% more coffee and longer - up to eight times - brewing time.
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>> You are right - every combination of time, temperature and particle
                        >>> size
                        >>>>> makes a different flavour BUT the cold drip produces results that are
                        >>>>> lower in dissolved solids.
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>> Try making a stew with cold water.
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>> happy brewing
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>> ian
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>> On 2/08/2013 3:19 PM, Dave Bellware wrote:
                        >>>>>> What my experiments with cold brewing have proved to me is that no
                        >>> matter
                        >>>>>> how much I think I know about coffee and coffee preparation, the book
                        >>> is
                        >>>>> by
                        >>>>>> no means closed. As for the inefficiency of large particle size and
                        >>> the
                        >>>>>> resultant smaller surface area, the greatly increased steep time of
                        >>> cold
                        >>>>>> brewing negates much of that inefficiency, in my opinion. I've known
                        >>> that
                        >>>>>> from comparing short-steeped, finely ground vacuum brews to much
                        >>>>>> longer-steeped drip brews with coffee that's much more coarsely
                        >>> ground.
                        >>>>>> Both are great but they are not the same.
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>> I can't remember where I saw it, but I've seen a chart that made some
                        >>>>>> effort to graph the effects of steep time against particle size of the
                        >>>>>> coffee.
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>> The point at which my thinking gets roadblocked is when I start to
                        >>> think
                        >>>>>> that the finest possible grind, such as a true Turkish grind, should
                        >>> or
                        >>>>>> does result in 100% of the ground coffee actually suspended in the
                        >>> final
                        >>>>>> brewed result. I don't happen to believe that such method results in
                        >>> the
                        >>>>>> best taste for my personal preferences. If I presume that I don't want
                        >>>>> ALL
                        >>>>>> of the coffee bean to be imparted to the coffee I drink, then that
                        >>> means
                        >>>>> to
                        >>>>>> me that each and every variable can be manipulated to produce pleasing
                        >>>>>> results, and that there are absolutely no hard and fast rules for the
                        >>>>> best
                        >>>>>> results.
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>> Dave Bellware
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>> On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 8:26 PM, Ian Bersten <ian@...>
                        >>> wrote:
                        >>>>>>> **
                        >>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>> Of course I have tried coffee made with cold water.
                        >>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>> Fact - coffee extraction is proportional to surface area of
                        >>> particles.
                        >>>>>>> Coarse ground coffee means poor extraction.
                        >>>>>>> The lower temperature means that some components will never dissolve.
                        >>>>>>> The combination of the two means weak extraction.
                        >>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>> It is my guess that if you took the wet grounds and dried them out
                        >>> in an
                        >>>>>>> oven and then reground them fine that you would get a better cup of
                        >>>>> coffee.
                        >>>>>>> I am not sure with coffee but I am sure with tea - I have done the
                        >>>>>>> experiment.
                        >>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>> Please make the following experiment
                        >>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>> take come coffee - grind it coarse and make with cold water.
                        >>>>>>> Take the same coffee and grind it espresso grind - pour boiling water
                        >>>>>>> over it and leave for 30-60 seconds and compare.
                        >>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>> Ian
                        >>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>> On 2/08/2013 9:45 AM, Giuseppe Marrari wrote:
                        >>>>>>>> Never tried cold press huh?
                        >>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
                        >>>>>>>> From: "Ian Bersten" <ian@... <mailto:ian%40helian.net.au
                        >>>>>>>> Sent: 8/1/2013 6:27 PM
                        >>>>>>>> To: "vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                        >>>>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>"
                        >>>>>>>> <vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                        >>>>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>>
                        >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [vacpot] Re: Filtron cold water coffee extractor
                        >>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>> I always thought the idea of making a cup of coffee was to extract
                        >>> the
                        >>>>>>>> flavour. Why anyone would want to use a brewer that used cold water
                        >>> and
                        >>>>>>>> under-extracted is beyond me. If you seriously want to make weak
                        >>>>>>>> coffee, take a small amount of coffee, brew with hot water. If you
                        >>> want
                        >>>>>>>> to drink it cold, just let it cool.
                        >>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>> It just goes to prove that there is an inner urge to find new idols
                        >>>>>>>> within the cult of coffee - that there must be some other way to
                        >>> make a
                        >>>>>>>> cup of coffee that will in some unspecified way take us to coffee
                        >>>>>>>> Nirvana and impress all those around us who belong to another cult
                        >>> and
                        >>>>>>>> have manifestly failed to make a cup of coffee with a method that
                        >>>>> defies
                        >>>>>>>> comprehension.
                        >>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>> The rule is : if it defies comprehension it probably doesn't make
                        >>> good
                        >>>>>>>> coffee.
                        >>>>>>>> Good coffee is made following established and known principles.
                        >>>>>>>> 'Ian
                        >>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>> On 2/08/2013 7:40 AM, Larry Hollenberg wrote:
                        >>>>>>>>> Leonard,
                        >>>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>>> Google Filtron instructions an you will find quite a number of
                        >>> sites
                        >>>>>>>>> that either have it or discuss it.
                        >>>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>>> Larry
                        >>>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>>> ________________________________
                        >>>>>>>>> From: eccopronto <lennylenny@... <mailto:lennylenny%40me.com>
                        >>>>>>>> <mailto:lennylenny%40me.com>>
                        >>>>>>>>> To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                        >>>>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                        >>>>>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                        >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 3:08 PM
                        >>>>>>>>> Subject: [vacpot] Re: Filtron cold water coffee extractor
                        >>>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>>> I have one of these units too. I have it displayed in a great spot
                        >>> in
                        >>>>>>>>> my kitchen. It's sort of an amazing unit to display.
                        >>>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>>> BUT, I do not have a clue how to use an old filtron. It has cone
                        >>>>>>>>> shaped filters, cloth filters, a screw on filter...
                        >>>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>>> If anyone could post a blow-by-blow list of instructions, I would
                        >>> be
                        >>>>>>>>> very happy and grateful. In the meanwhile, I will continue to look,
                        >>>>>>>>> but not actually use it!
                        >>>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>>> (I like to use my stuff!)
                        >>>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>>> Thanks
                        >>>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>>> Best
                        >>>>>>>>> Leonard
                        >>>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>>> --- In vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                        >>>>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                        >>>>>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>, <rsburritt@
                        >>> ...>
                        >>>>>>>>> wrote:
                        >>>>>>>>>> Hi Larry, I have a filtron (one of the newer models) that I picked
                        >>>>>>>>> up in a thrift store and have used it several times. The brewed
                        >>>>>>>>> product is pretty good. It is not the same as vacpot coffee, but
                        >>> it's
                        >>>>>>>>> also a pleasant difference from drip coffee. I would say that the
                        >>> cold
                        >>>>>>>>> brewing process gives the beverage a mildly exotic flavor. One
                        >>> thing
                        >>>>>>>>> that I've noticed lately is that cold-brewing seems to be coming
                        >>> more
                        >>>>>>>>> into style, or at least with some of the designer coffees that I've
                        >>>>>>>>> picked up in the store and looked at the bag, they recommend "cold
                        >>>>>>>>> brewing for full flavor". Interesting.
                        >>>>>>>>>> When my parents when to Hawaii a couple of years ago, they
                        >>> returned
                        >>>>>>>>> with some coffee that called for cold brewing. I brewed it cold in
                        >>> the
                        >>>>>>>>> French Press and it came out very good.
                        >>>>>>>>>> The new filtron units are expensive and not very aesthetic (being
                        >>>>>>>>> made out of dark brown plastic, with a clear polycarbonate
                        >>>>>>>>> wine-decanter style carafe for the brewed coffee), but the older
                        >>> glass
                        >>>>>>>>> ones like Ron picked up are really worth the money just as
                        >>>>>>>>> collectables and due to their beauty with the glass and different
                        >>>>>>>>> colors/varieties of bakelite handles and parts, etc. I wouldn't
                        >>> have
                        >>>>>>>>> been willing to pay the $30-$40 for the new one just to sample this
                        >>>>>>>>> method, but if you find one second hand at a cheap price, then in
                        >>> my
                        >>>>>>>>> opinion it's worth the few bucks.
                        >>>>>>>>>> Also, there was an "interim" model that came out around the
                        >>>>>>>>> 50's-60's which was after the glass models, but before the current
                        >>>>>>>>> models. That model is made of a clear plastic upper with (I
                        >>> believe) a
                        >>>>>>>>> glass lower pot. They are not ugly like the brown plastic units,
                        >>> but
                        >>>>>>>>> they do not have the same character as the vintage glass models.
                        >>>>>>>>>> Roland
                        >>>>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
                        >>>>>>>>>> From: Larry Hollenberg
                        >>>>>>>>>> To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                        >>>>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                        >>>>>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                        >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 6:46 PM
                        >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [vacpot] Filtron cold water coffee extractor
                        >>>>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>>>> Ron,
                        >>>>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>>>> I haven't got the answer you want, but would like you to let us
                        >>> know
                        >>>>>>>>> how you find the coffee it makes? I have always wondered about them
                        >>>>>>>>> and I think that some time ago Roland was experimenting with one
                        >>> and
                        >>>>>>>>> found it pretty good. We recently took a rail trip and in the
                        >>> sleepers
                        >>>>>>>>> they had gone from a drip style pot that made quite good coffee to
                        >>> a
                        >>>>>>>>> liquid type that infused with hot water, which I think is a similar
                        >>>>>>>>> idea. I would be interested in some other opinions of this method?
                        >>>>>>>>>> Larry
                        >>>>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>>>> --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Ron McCray <stebchem@...> wrote:
                        >>>>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>>>>> From: Ron McCray <stebchem@...>
                        >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [vacpot] Filtron cold water coffee extractor
                        >>>>>>>>>>> To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                        >>>>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                        >>>>>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                        >>>>>>>>>>> Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 6:31 PM
                        >>>>>>>>>>> We recently purchased one of the older, all-glass models
                        >>>>>>>>>>> of the Filtron coffee extractor--the one with the lovely
                        >>>>>>>>>>> butterscotch-colored handles. It came with a used filter
                        >>>>>>>>>>> pad and, of course, we want to replace it with a new
                        >>>>>>>>>>> filter. We see Filtron filter pads offered by various
                        >>>>>>>>>>> coffee-related websites, but we're not sure they will
                        >>>>>>>>>>> fit this older model of Filtron. Does anybody in our group
                        >>>>>>>>>>> have experience with Filtrons (especially the older models
                        >>>>>>>>>>> like ours) and have any advice about obtaining new filter
                        >>>>>>>>>>> pads?
                        >>>>>>>>>>> The Filtron company is still in business, but they ignored
                        >>>>>>>>>>> our email in which we asked the question being posed here.
                        >>>>>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>>>>> Do the new Filtron filter pads fit the older model
                        >>>>>>>>>>> extractors?
                        >>>>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >>>>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >>>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>> --
                        >>>>>>>> www.chaicoffski.com.au
                        >>>>>>>> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
                        >>>>>>>> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
                        >>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>> --
                        >>>>>>> www.chaicoffski.com.au
                        >>>>>>> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
                        >>>>>>> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
                        >>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>
                        >>>>>>>
                        >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>> ------------------------------------
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>>>
                        >>>>> --
                        >>>>> www.chaicoffski.com.au
                        >>>>> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
                        >>>>> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>> ------------------------------------
                        >>>>
                        >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>> --
                        >>> www.chaicoffski.com.au
                        >>> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
                        >>> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
                        >>>
                        >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        --
                        www.chaicoffski.com.au
                        Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
                        Make tea with 160% more antioxidants



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Ian Bersten
                        -- I would like to suggest that you all make a simple scientific experiment in your kitchen Grind some coffee coarsely Put the grounds into a large hole
                        Message 11 of 20 , Aug 4, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          -- I would like to suggest that you all make a simple scientific experiment in your kitchen

                          Grind some coffee coarsely
                          Put the grounds into a large hole kitchen sieve and sift the smallest pieces out.
                          Take an amount of the coarse grounds into a glass cup and pour boiling water over them. Leave for as long as you like.
                          Sift out the wet grounds and put into another glass cup.
                          Pour boling water over them and leave for hours, days or weeks.
                          The result of the first brew will be a clear see through weak brew and the result of the second will be a clear straw coloured beverage proving that most of the extraction comes out in the first brew and hardly anything afterwards i.e. time is a minor factor.

                          I did not bother to use cold water but the results will be mch weaker.

                          For fun you should take the small particles and do the same experiment and compare.

                          I am confident you will understand a lot more about coffee brewing.

                          My thanks to Philip for his encouragement and supporting words.
















                          Well, this discussion has become a bit too lively I'm afraid. Time for a
                          deep breath. Let's remember that we are all entitled to share our
                          opinions and to differ on any topic, but we draw a line when ANY
                          person's integrity is questioned. As a moderator I must insist that we
                          all adhere to this policy.

                          Dave, your views are most welcome in this group and your contributions
                          are very much appreciated. That said, I hope you truly appreciate who
                          Ian is, his impeccable credentials with regards to the subject of coffee
                          and the brewing of coffee and his many years of kind assistance to all
                          of us in this group. Google Ian if you need to. Ian's lifetime of
                          achievements and international standing as a genuine authority on these
                          subjects cannot be overstated. Most of all, Ian has a proven lifetime of
                          personal and professional integrity which I must insist that you respect
                          along with the integrity of all members of the group. Naturally all must
                          respect your integrity as well. Ian has NEVER sought to sell anything to
                          this group or even ask for the recognition he deserves. His humility in
                          his posts is a matter of record you can look up for yourself in the
                          archives.

                          Feel free to carry on your discussion and be as passionate as you like
                          about your view Dave, but please limit the discussion to the topic and
                          not the participants.

                          Thank you all for your participation in this group.

                          Philip

                          --- In vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                          <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>, Dave Bellware
                          <bigbells@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Here is a link to the SCAA Gold Standard certification, which you'll see
                          > contains zero references to sensory evaluation, and which contains the
                          > minimum and maximum amounts of coffee that are permitted. 35% less is
                          well
                          > outside of what is permitted to qualify.
                          >
                          >
                          http://www.scaa.org/PDF/2010/Golden%20Cup%20Informaton%20and%20Application_April2010_v2.pdf
                          >
                          >
                          > On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:59 AM, Dave Bellware <bigbells@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > A laboratory approved by whom? SCAA does not use a Sensory Scale in its
                          > > Gold Cup Standard, so any and all such references are irrelevant as
                          far as
                          > > meeting the Standard. The measurements made for Gold Cup relate
                          solely to
                          > > the amount of coffee extracted, from a mandated amount which you
                          did not
                          > > meet to begin with. I can extract the approved percentage using 90%
                          less
                          > > coffee, but I wouldn't like the taste of it. SCAA does not approve
                          coffees,
                          > > it approves preparation methods. I think the lab has hoodwinked
                          somebody.
                          > >
                          > > Dave Bellware
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:42 AM, Ian Bersten <ian@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > >> **
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >> Excuse me. The results were provided by an approved laboratory.
                          > >>
                          > >> *Evaluation of Brewing Method & Roasted Coffee Content comparing the
                          > >> CHAICOFFSKI,*
                          > >>
                          > >> *a NEW way to brew coffee with some other methods*
                          > >>
                          > >> All results were based on the use of the same blend of coffee
                          > >>
                          > >> **
                          > >>
                          > >> *CONCLUSIONS:*
                          > >>
                          > >> All methods produced cups in the mid-range of Usual Good Quality for
                          > >> Sensory Scale
                          > >>
                          > >> Chaicoffski 1 was almost within Golden Cup Standard. A brew time of
                          > >> anotherhalf second would have improved results sufficiently to qualify
                          > >>
                          > >> The Hario V-60 took more than five times as long to brew as the
                          > >> Chaicoffski 1
                          > >>
                          > >> The Aeropress used 250% more coffee and brewed for 33% longer than the
                          > >> Chaicoffski 1
                          > >>
                          > >> The Bodum Press took *EIGHT* times as long to brew and used 50% more
                          > >> coffee than Chaicoffski 1 -- 40 grams/liter and 30 seconds
                          > >>
                          > >> All seven methods provided different flavour analysis.
                          > >>
                          > >> There was a tiny improvement in Sensory score by raising the
                          Chaicoffski
                          > >> brewing time from 30 to 45 seconds
                          > >>
                          > >> *Using the Chaicoffski 1 -- 40 grams per liter and 30 seconds brew
                          time
                          > >> gives similar quality -- less time -- less coffee -- easier to
                          prepare,
                          > >> no paper filters or standing and pouring*
                          > >>
                          > >> All quantitative and sensorial data was provided by an independent
                          > >> laboratory specializing in coffee approved by the SCAA.
                          > >>
                          > >> Copyright Chaicoffski Pty. Ltd.Sydney Australia 2013
                          > >>
                          > >> It is true that the results confirm what I am saying about the
                          > >> Chaicoffski filter but I never mentioned the name on this site and
                          there
                          > >> was no intent in supplying the facts that I did, that I was trying to
                          > >> sell the filter to members of this site.
                          > >>
                          > >> I do not appreciate ad hominem attacks
                          > >>
                          > >> The claims I made above are true.
                          > >>
                          > >> Ian Bersten
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >> On 2/08/2013 4:08 PM, Dave Bellware wrote:
                          > >> > By definition, the qualification standards for Gold Cup simply
                          does not
                          > >> > allow a reduction of 35% in the amount of coffee used. The claim you
                          > >> make
                          > >> > is therefore provably incorrect. The maximum permissible
                          reduction in
                          > >> > coffee amount is 23%, since the minimum amount that can be used
                          is 92
                          > >> grams
                          > >> > and the maximum amount that can be used is 120 grams for the
                          Gold Cup
                          > >> > standard.
                          > >> >
                          > >> > However, when I clicked the link you provided, I see that you're
                          selling
                          > >> > your own product, which leads me to believe that the facts might
                          not be
                          > >> > your highest priority. I am not disparaging your filter, just
                          the claims
                          > >> > you make about it.
                          > >> >
                          > >> > Dave Bellware
                          > >> >
                          > >> >
                          > >> > On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 1:36 AM, Ian Bersten <ian@...> wrote:
                          > >> >
                          > >> >> **
                          > >>
                          > >> >>
                          > >> >>
                          > >> >> There is an enormous difference between making Turkish coffee where
                          > >> heat
                          > >> >> is applied to boiling the coffee and pouring boiling water over
                          coffee.
                          > >> >> The latter never gets bitter until you apply more heat.
                          > >> >>
                          > >> >> Yes there is a difference between coffee steeped for longer
                          times but
                          > >> >> the major factor is the grind particle size.
                          > >> >>
                          > >> >> I have had tests done by an approved lab that proves that you
                          can get
                          > >> >> SCAA Goldcup standard with espresso grind coffee brewed for 30
                          seconds
                          > >> >> using 35% less coffee. Other methodds using coarser grind
                          coffee need
                          > >> >> 50% more coffee and longer - up to eight times - brewing time.
                          > >> >>
                          > >> >> You are right - every combination of time, temperature and particle
                          > >> size
                          > >> >> makes a different flavour BUT the cold drip produces results
                          that are
                          > >> >> lower in dissolved solids.
                          > >> >>
                          > >> >> Try making a stew with cold water.
                          > >> >>
                          > >> >> happy brewing
                          > >> >>
                          > >> >> ian
                          > >> >>
                          > >> >>
                          > >> >> On 2/08/2013 3:19 PM, Dave Bellware wrote:
                          > >> >>> What my experiments with cold brewing have proved to me is that no
                          > >> matter
                          > >> >>> how much I think I know about coffee and coffee preparation,
                          the book
                          > >> is
                          > >> >> by
                          > >> >>> no means closed. As for the inefficiency of large particle
                          size and
                          > >> the
                          > >> >>> resultant smaller surface area, the greatly increased steep
                          time of
                          > >> cold
                          > >> >>> brewing negates much of that inefficiency, in my opinion. I've
                          known
                          > >> that
                          > >> >>> from comparing short-steeped, finely ground vacuum brews to much
                          > >> >>> longer-steeped drip brews with coffee that's much more coarsely
                          > >> ground.
                          > >> >>> Both are great but they are not the same.
                          > >> >>>
                          > >> >>> I can't remember where I saw it, but I've seen a chart that
                          made some
                          > >> >>> effort to graph the effects of steep time against particle
                          size of the
                          > >> >>> coffee.
                          > >> >>>
                          > >> >>> The point at which my thinking gets roadblocked is when I start to
                          > >> think
                          > >> >>> that the finest possible grind, such as a true Turkish grind,
                          should
                          > >> or
                          > >> >>> does result in 100% of the ground coffee actually suspended in the
                          > >> final
                          > >> >>> brewed result. I don't happen to believe that such method
                          results in
                          > >> the
                          > >> >>> best taste for my personal preferences. If I presume that I
                          don't want
                          > >> >> ALL
                          > >> >>> of the coffee bean to be imparted to the coffee I drink, then that
                          > >> means
                          > >> >> to
                          > >> >>> me that each and every variable can be manipulated to produce
                          pleasing
                          > >> >>> results, and that there are absolutely no hard and fast rules
                          for the
                          > >> >> best
                          > >> >>> results.
                          > >> >>>
                          > >> >>> Dave Bellware
                          > >> >>>
                          > >> >>>
                          > >> >>> On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 8:26 PM, Ian Bersten <ian@...>
                          > >> wrote:
                          > >> >>>
                          > >> >>>> **
                          > >> >>>>
                          > >> >>>> Of course I have tried coffee made with cold water.
                          > >> >>>>
                          > >> >>>> Fact - coffee extraction is proportional to surface area of
                          > >> particles.
                          > >> >>>> Coarse ground coffee means poor extraction.
                          > >> >>>> The lower temperature means that some components will never
                          dissolve.
                          > >> >>>> The combination of the two means weak extraction.
                          > >> >>>>
                          > >> >>>> It is my guess that if you took the wet grounds and dried
                          them out
                          > >> in an
                          > >> >>>> oven and then reground them fine that you would get a better
                          cup of
                          > >> >> coffee.
                          > >> >>>> I am not sure with coffee but I am sure with tea - I have
                          done the
                          > >> >>>> experiment.
                          > >> >>>>
                          > >> >>>> Please make the following experiment
                          > >> >>>>
                          > >> >>>> take come coffee - grind it coarse and make with cold water.
                          > >> >>>> Take the same coffee and grind it espresso grind - pour
                          boiling water
                          > >> >>>> over it and leave for 30-60 seconds and compare.
                          > >> >>>>
                          > >> >>>> Ian
                          > >> >>>>
                          > >> >>>>
                          > >> >>>> On 2/08/2013 9:45 AM, Giuseppe Marrari wrote:
                          > >> >>>>> Never tried cold press huh?
                          > >> >>>>>
                          > >> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
                          > >> >>>>> From: "Ian Bersten" <ian@... <mailto:ian%40helian.net.au
                          > >> >>
                          > >> >>>>> Sent: 8/1/2013 6:27 PM
                          > >> >>>>> To: "vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                          <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > >> >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>"
                          > >> >>>>> <vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                          <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > >> >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>>
                          > >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [vacpot] Re: Filtron cold water coffee extractor
                          > >> >>>>>
                          > >> >>>>> I always thought the idea of making a cup of coffee was to
                          extract
                          > >> the
                          > >> >>>>> flavour. Why anyone would want to use a brewer that used
                          cold water
                          > >> and
                          > >> >>>>> under-extracted is beyond me. If you seriously want to make weak
                          > >> >>>>> coffee, take a small amount of coffee, brew with hot water.
                          If you
                          > >> want
                          > >> >>>>> to drink it cold, just let it cool.
                          > >> >>>>>
                          > >> >>>>> It just goes to prove that there is an inner urge to find
                          new idols
                          > >> >>>>> within the cult of coffee - that there must be some other way to
                          > >> make a
                          > >> >>>>> cup of coffee that will in some unspecified way take us to
                          coffee
                          > >> >>>>> Nirvana and impress all those around us who belong to
                          another cult
                          > >> and
                          > >> >>>>> have manifestly failed to make a cup of coffee with a method
                          that
                          > >> >> defies
                          > >> >>>>> comprehension.
                          > >> >>>>>
                          > >> >>>>> The rule is : if it defies comprehension it probably doesn't
                          make
                          > >> good
                          > >> >>>>> coffee.
                          > >> >>>>> Good coffee is made following established and known principles.
                          > >> >>>>> 'Ian
                          > >> >>>>>
                          > >> >>>>> On 2/08/2013 7:40 AM, Larry Hollenberg wrote:
                          > >> >>>>>> Leonard,
                          > >> >>>>>>
                          > >> >>>>>> Google Filtron instructions an you will find quite a number of
                          > >> sites
                          > >> >>>>>> that either have it or discuss it.
                          > >> >>>>>>
                          > >> >>>>>> Larry
                          > >> >>>>>>
                          > >> >>>>>> ________________________________
                          > >> >>>>>> From: eccopronto <lennylenny@... <mailto:lennylenny%40me.com>
                          > >> >>>>> <mailto:lennylenny%40me.com>>
                          > >> >>>>>> To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                          <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > >> >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > >> >>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > >> >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 3:08 PM
                          > >> >>>>>> Subject: [vacpot] Re: Filtron cold water coffee extractor
                          > >> >>>>>>
                          > >> >>>>>>
                          > >> >>>>>>
                          > >> >>>>>> I have one of these units too. I have it displayed in a
                          great spot
                          > >> in
                          > >> >>>>>> my kitchen. It's sort of an amazing unit to display.
                          > >> >>>>>>
                          > >> >>>>>> BUT, I do not have a clue how to use an old filtron. It has
                          cone
                          > >> >>>>>> shaped filters, cloth filters, a screw on filter...
                          > >> >>>>>>
                          > >> >>>>>> If anyone could post a blow-by-blow list of instructions, I
                          would
                          > >> be
                          > >> >>>>>> very happy and grateful. In the meanwhile, I will continue
                          to look,
                          > >> >>>>>> but not actually use it!
                          > >> >>>>>>
                          > >> >>>>>> (I like to use my stuff!)
                          > >> >>>>>>
                          > >> >>>>>> Thanks
                          > >> >>>>>>
                          > >> >>>>>> Best
                          > >> >>>>>> Leonard
                          > >> >>>>>>
                          > >> >>>>>> --- In vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                          <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > >> >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > >> >>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>,
                          <rsburritt@
                          > >> ...>
                          > >> >>>>>> wrote:
                          > >> >>>>>>> Hi Larry, I have a filtron (one of the newer models) that
                          I picked
                          > >> >>>>>> up in a thrift store and have used it several times. The brewed
                          > >> >>>>>> product is pretty good. It is not the same as vacpot
                          coffee, but
                          > >> it's
                          > >> >>>>>> also a pleasant difference from drip coffee. I would say
                          that the
                          > >> cold
                          > >> >>>>>> brewing process gives the beverage a mildly exotic flavor. One
                          > >> thing
                          > >> >>>>>> that I've noticed lately is that cold-brewing seems to be
                          coming
                          > >> more
                          > >> >>>>>> into style, or at least with some of the designer coffees
                          that I've
                          > >> >>>>>> picked up in the store and looked at the bag, they
                          recommend "cold
                          > >> >>>>>> brewing for full flavor". Interesting.
                          > >> >>>>>>> When my parents when to Hawaii a couple of years ago, they
                          > >> returned
                          > >> >>>>>> with some coffee that called for cold brewing. I brewed it
                          cold in
                          > >> the
                          > >> >>>>>> French Press and it came out very good.
                          > >> >>>>>>> The new filtron units are expensive and not very aesthetic
                          (being
                          > >> >>>>>> made out of dark brown plastic, with a clear polycarbonate
                          > >> >>>>>> wine-decanter style carafe for the brewed coffee), but the
                          older
                          > >> glass
                          > >> >>>>>> ones like Ron picked up are really worth the money just as
                          > >> >>>>>> collectables and due to their beauty with the glass and
                          different
                          > >> >>>>>> colors/varieties of bakelite handles and parts, etc. I wouldn't
                          > >> have
                          > >> >>>>>> been willing to pay the $30-$40 for the new one just to
                          sample this
                          > >> >>>>>> method, but if you find one second hand at a cheap price,
                          then in
                          > >> my
                          > >> >>>>>> opinion it's worth the few bucks.
                          > >> >>>>>>> Also, there was an "interim" model that came out around the
                          > >> >>>>>> 50's-60's which was after the glass models, but before the
                          current
                          > >> >>>>>> models. That model is made of a clear plastic upper with (I
                          > >> believe) a
                          > >> >>>>>> glass lower pot. They are not ugly like the brown plastic
                          units,
                          > >> but
                          > >> >>>>>> they do not have the same character as the vintage glass
                          models.
                          > >> >>>>>>> Roland
                          > >> >>>>>>>
                          > >> >>>>>>>
                          > >> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
                          > >> >>>>>>> From: Larry Hollenberg
                          > >> >>>>>>> To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                          <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > >> >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > >> >>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > >> >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 6:46 PM
                          > >> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [vacpot] Filtron cold water coffee extractor
                          > >> >>>>>>>
                          > >> >>>>>>>
                          > >> >>>>>>> Ron,
                          > >> >>>>>>>
                          > >> >>>>>>> I haven't got the answer you want, but would like you to
                          let us
                          > >> know
                          > >> >>>>>> how you find the coffee it makes? I have always wondered
                          about them
                          > >> >>>>>> and I think that some time ago Roland was experimenting
                          with one
                          > >> and
                          > >> >>>>>> found it pretty good. We recently took a rail trip and in the
                          > >> sleepers
                          > >> >>>>>> they had gone from a drip style pot that made quite good
                          coffee to
                          > >> a
                          > >> >>>>>> liquid type that infused with hot water, which I think is a
                          similar
                          > >> >>>>>> idea. I would be interested in some other opinions of this
                          method?
                          > >> >>>>>>> Larry
                          > >> >>>>>>>
                          > >> >>>>>>> --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Ron McCray <stebchem@> wrote:
                          > >> >>>>>>>
                          > >> >>>>>>>> From: Ron McCray <stebchem@>
                          > >> >>>>>>>> Subject: [vacpot] Filtron cold water coffee extractor
                          > >> >>>>>>>> To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
                          <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > >> >>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > >> >>>>>> <mailto:vacuumcoffeepotcollector%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > >> >>>>>>>> Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 6:31 PM
                          > >> >>>>>>>> We recently purchased one of the older, all-glass models
                          > >> >>>>>>>> of the Filtron coffee extractor--the one with the lovely
                          > >> >>>>>>>> butterscotch-colored handles. It came with a used filter
                          > >> >>>>>>>> pad and, of course, we want to replace it with a new
                          > >> >>>>>>>> filter. We see Filtron filter pads offered by various
                          > >> >>>>>>>> coffee-related websites, but we're not sure they will
                          > >> >>>>>>>> fit this older model of Filtron. Does anybody in our group
                          > >> >>>>>>>> have experience with Filtrons (especially the older models
                          > >> >>>>>>>> like ours) and have any advice about obtaining new filter
                          > >> >>>>>>>> pads?
                          > >> >>>>>>>> The Filtron company is still in business, but they ignored
                          > >> >>>>>>>> our email in which we asked the question being posed here.
                          > >> >>>>>>>>
                          > >> >>>>>>>> Do the new Filtron filter pads fit the older model
                          > >> >>>>>>>> extractors?
                          > >> >>>>>>>
                          > >> >>>>>>>
                          > >> >>>>>>>
                          > >> >>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >> >>>>>>>
                          > >> >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >> >>>>>>
                          > >> >>>>>>
                          > >> >>>>> --
                          > >> >>>>> www.chaicoffski.com.au
                          > >> >>>>> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
                          > >> >>>>> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
                          > >> >>>>>
                          > >> >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >> >>>>>
                          > >> >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >> >>>>>
                          > >> >>>>>
                          > >> >>>> --
                          > >> >>>> www.chaicoffski.com.au
                          > >> >>>> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
                          > >> >>>> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
                          > >> >>>>
                          > >> >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >> >>>>
                          > >> >>>>
                          > >> >>>>
                          > >> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >> >>>
                          > >> >>>
                          > >> >>>
                          > >> >>> ------------------------------------
                          > >> >>>
                          > >> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >> >>>
                          > >> >>>
                          > >> >> --
                          > >> >> www.chaicoffski.com.au
                          > >> >> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
                          > >> >> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
                          > >> >>
                          > >> >>
                          > >> >>
                          > >> >
                          > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >> >
                          > >> >
                          > >> >
                          > >> > ------------------------------------
                          > >> >
                          > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >> >
                          > >> >
                          > >> >
                          > >>
                          > >> --
                          > >> www.chaicoffski.com.au
                          > >> Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
                          > >> Make tea with 160% more antioxidants
                          > >>
                          > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >



                          -- www.chaicoffski.com.au Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less
                          coffee. Make tea with 160% more antioxidants

                          www.chaicoffski.com.au
                          Make coffee in 30 seconds using 35% less coffee.
                          Make tea with 160% more antioxidants



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