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Re: [vacpot] Ground Verses Bean taste?

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  • Gary Henderson
    Larry Maybe I m not understanding your post correctly. Are you saying the factory ground 8oC coffee would choke your pot? Then, when you ground the whole bean
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 31, 2009
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      Larry

      Maybe I'm not understanding your post correctly. Are you saying the factory ground 8oC coffee would choke your pot? Then, when you ground the whole bean 8cC with a home grinder or some sort, grinding course enough to get rid of the choking produced a less than desired flavor?

      I'd be quite surprised to hear that the factory grind choked the pot, since the grind from the factory is set courser than what was once called "vacpot" or 'Fine" grind, and is also more uniform in texture than the grounds you would get from a home grinder. That would mean that there is less coffee "fines" or coffee dust present to provoke the clogging.

      Is my understanding correct? What kind of grinder did you use?




      ________________________________
      From: larry h <larryhollenb@...>
      To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wed, December 30, 2009 4:53:52 PM
      Subject: [vacpot] Ground Verses Bean taste?


      Hello All

      I think I have mentioned this before but it still puzzles me. I have recently obtained a cory aluminum automatic. Its the first one I have ever owned that actually was adjustable by the thermostat. It works well. I had been quite fond of the Columbian Ground coffee by Eight O Clock which is available locally. It is also available in bean form. That was my first try at it some time back, I was less than enthused about the taste of it. So when I purchased the ground after consumers guild pronounced it the best coffee last year. However I am having problems with the Cory stalling, often to the point of being impossible to get the coffee to go down for quite some time. The vacuum is so hot you can't budge the rod or remove the top.
      When it works right, which is about half the time, its wonderful. So I decided that if I ground it and set the grind a bit coarser perhaps it wouldn't stall. Well it corrected the stall issues, but there is something oddly sweet tasting about the ground coffee. Its enough to change the nice flavor that the pre-ground has. I can't figure what might be happening to cause the taste to vary so between the bean and ground? Any thoughts on what might be happening..

      Larry







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Larry Hollenberg
      Gary. I find the commercial grinds to be very fine for what I have seen. I think they are mostly geared to drip pots which I use also, they work great in
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 31, 2009
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        Gary.
        I find the commercial grinds to be very fine for what I have seen. I think they are mostly geared to drip pots which I use also, they work great in those, and when the vac pot works correctly it too is very good, but they tend to stall with the cory rod in the automatic pot. I had issues with regular glass corys as well stalling and it has been the subject of comments though time here. 
        Yes the the ground coffee I am doing is coarser, I use a old wall mount Crystal Grinder by Arcade. It still will adjust from very fine to coarse, but probably leaves some dust, however it isn't stalling, but the flavor is just odd. I am not blaming the grinder although it could be that. I ran into this when I first started to buy the Eight O Clock Bean Columbian. I didn't think I cared for the taste due to that flavor associated with it. But when I finally bought the ground version of the same coffee it was great.  Now when I went back to the beans again due to the Cory stalling, I find that the same odd flavor is in the bean coffee as it was a couple years ago.  I think at one point I tired to greatly increase the amount of grounds from my home ground version and it did seem to come closer to the pre ground version but went though a lot of beans fast.  
        Larry
        --- On Thu, 12/31/09, Gary Henderson <earlgrey_44@...> wrote:

        From: Gary Henderson <earlgrey_44@...>
        Subject: Re: [vacpot] Ground Verses Bean taste?
        To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, December 31, 2009, 8:45 AM
















         









        Larry



        Maybe I'm not understanding your post correctly. Are you saying the factory ground 8oC coffee would choke your pot? Then, when you ground the whole bean 8cC with a home grinder or some sort, grinding course enough to get rid of the choking produced a less than desired flavor?



        I'd be quite surprised to hear that the factory grind choked the pot, since the grind from the factory is set courser than what was once called "vacpot" or 'Fine" grind, and is also more uniform in texture than the grounds you would get from a home grinder. That would mean that there is less coffee "fines" or coffee dust present to provoke the clogging.



        Is my understanding correct? What kind of grinder did you use?



        ____________ _________ _________ __

        From: larry h <larryhollenb@ yahoo.com>

        To: vacuumcoffeepotcoll ector@yahoogroup s.com

        Sent: Wed, December 30, 2009 4:53:52 PM

        Subject: [vacpot] Ground Verses Bean taste?



        Hello All



        I think I have mentioned this before but it still puzzles me. I have recently obtained a cory aluminum automatic. Its the first one I have ever owned that actually was adjustable by the thermostat. It works well. I had been quite fond of the Columbian Ground coffee by Eight O Clock which is available locally. It is also available in bean form. That was my first try at it some time back, I was less than enthused about the taste of it. So when I purchased the ground after consumers guild pronounced it the best coffee last year. However I am having problems with the Cory stalling, often to the point of being impossible to get the coffee to go down for quite some time. The vacuum is so hot you can't budge the rod or remove the top.

        When it works right, which is about half the time, its wonderful. So I decided that if I ground it and set the grind a bit coarser perhaps it wouldn't stall. Well it corrected the stall issues, but there is something oddly sweet tasting about the ground coffee. Its enough to change the nice flavor that the pre-ground has. I can't figure what might be happening to cause the taste to vary so between the bean and ground? Any thoughts on what might be happening..



        Larry



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






























        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • davidborton
        Larry, When was the last time you cleaned the grinder? How did you clean it? Do you grind anything else in it? Might be time for Grindz.
        Message 3 of 13 , Dec 31, 2009
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          Larry,

          When was the last time you cleaned the grinder? How did you clean it? Do you grind anything else in it?

          Might be time for Grindz. http://www.sweetmarias.com/urnex.grindzFAQ.html.

          Dave Borton
        • Larry Hollenberg
          Cleaning it, thats a good question, probably when I purchased it 45 years ago!  Don t use it for anything else though. I will say however I several small wood
          Message 4 of 13 , Dec 31, 2009
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            Cleaning it, thats a good question, probably when I purchased it 45 years ago!  Don't use it for anything else though. I will say however I several small wood table german grinders and the flavor remains the same.
            Larryu

            --- On Thu, 12/31/09, davidborton <dave@...> wrote:

            From: davidborton <dave@...>
            Subject: [vacpot] Re: Ground Verses Bean taste?
            To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, December 31, 2009, 9:10 AM
















             









            Larry,



            When was the last time you cleaned the grinder? How did you clean it? Do you grind anything else in it?



            Might be time for Grindz. http://www.sweetmar ias.com/urnex. grindzFAQ. html.



            Dave Borton






























            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Gary Henderson
            Larry Well, looks like I may be out of touch with what s in the pre-ground bags these days - it s been some years since I bought some. I m sure they are indeed
            Message 5 of 13 , Dec 31, 2009
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              Larry

              Well, looks like I may be out of touch with what's in the pre-ground bags these days - it's been some years since I bought some. I'm sure they are indeed ground with auto-drips in mind for obvious reasons, but I had been thinking that no pre-ground coffee would give a vac pot a problem.. The "vac" setting on the wonderful old Hobart commercial grinder that I had in my store years ago yielded a grind considerably finer than what was called "drip" at that time.

              That said, the more uniform grind of a factory grinder (based on rollers) will be quite different than the grind profile you get from a home grinder, expensive or not, burr or not. This will result in a different extraction which may or may not be to your liking. In this case, I guess it's not. I'm pretty sure that's why you see a consistent difference.

              The unpredictable age of beans in the store is another variable you can't control. Even so, you might try grinding a weeks worth of whole 8oC beans in the store using their grinder if that's an option and find the best grind for the pot. The store grinder isn't a factory grinder of course, but it will be significantly more "dust" free than the Arcade. You might just find that the extraction advantage weighs more for you than the staleness factor does.

              As has been said on this thread, roasting your own beans and grinding them at the Arcade grind that the pot likes might be the best way to maximize your happiness with minimum $$$, if you want to take on the trouble.of roasting your own. While the 8oC beans are among the upper crust of supermarket beans, that's not saying much compared to the quality of green beans you can buy through the mail that don't cost too much more if at all.

              Another alternative is our friends at Porto Rico Importing Co in NY. They are an old family roaster that have coffee that's a considerable cut above the supermarket at pretty cheap prices compared to the fancy pants specialty internet roasters. They are worth a shot though at their price level, they don't roast-date their beans.









              ________________________________
              From: Larry Hollenberg <larryhollenb@...>
              To: vacuumcoffeepotcollector@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thu, December 31, 2009 9:00:03 AM
              Subject: Re: [vacpot] Ground Verses Bean taste?


              Gary.
              I find the commercial grinds to be very fine for what I have seen. I think they are mostly geared to drip pots which I use also, they work great in those, and when the vac pot works correctly it too is very good, but they tend to stall with the cory rod in the automatic pot. I had issues with regular glass corys as well stalling and it has been the subject of comments though time here.
              Yes the the ground coffee I am doing is coarser, I use a old wall mount Crystal Grinder by Arcade. It still will adjust from very fine to coarse, but probably leaves some dust, however it isn't stalling, but the flavor is just odd. I am not blaming the grinder although it could be that. I ran into this when I first started to buy the Eight O Clock Bean Columbian. I didn't think I cared for the taste due to that flavor associated with it. But when I finally bought the ground version of the same coffee it was great. Now when I went back to the beans again due to the Cory stalling, I find that the same odd flavor is in the bean coffee as it was a couple years ago. I think at one point I tired to greatly increase the amount of grounds from my home ground version and it did seem to come closer to the pre ground version but went though a lot of beans fast.
              Larry
              --- On Thu, 12/31/09, Gary Henderson <earlgrey_44@ yahoo..com> wrote:

              From: Gary Henderson <earlgrey_44@ yahoo.com>
              Subject: Re: [vacpot] Ground Verses Bean taste?
              To: vacuumcoffeepotcoll ector@yahoogroup s.com
              Date: Thursday, December 31, 2009, 8:45 AM



              Larry

              Maybe I'm not understanding your post correctly. Are you saying the factory ground 8oC coffee would choke your pot? Then, when you ground the whole bean 8cC with a home grinder or some sort, grinding course enough to get rid of the choking produced a less than desired flavor?

              I'd be quite surprised to hear that the factory grind choked the pot, since the grind from the factory is set courser than what was once called "vacpot" or 'Fine" grind, and is also more uniform in texture than the grounds you would get from a home grinder. That would mean that there is less coffee "fines" or coffee dust present to provoke the clogging.

              Is my understanding correct? What kind of grinder did you use?

              ____________ _________ _________ __

              From: larry h <larryhollenb@ yahoo.com>

              To: vacuumcoffeepotcoll ector@yahoogroup s.com

              Sent: Wed, December 30, 2009 4:53:52 PM

              Subject: [vacpot] Ground Verses Bean taste?

              Hello All

              I think I have mentioned this before but it still puzzles me. I have recently obtained a cory aluminum automatic. Its the first one I have ever owned that actually was adjustable by the thermostat. It works well. I had been quite fond of the Columbian Ground coffee by Eight O Clock which is available locally. It is also available in bean form. That was my first try at it some time back, I was less than enthused about the taste of it. So when I purchased the ground after consumers guild pronounced it the best coffee last year. However I am having problems with the Cory stalling, often to the point of being impossible to get the coffee to go down for quite some time. The vacuum is so hot you can't budge the rod or remove the top.

              When it works right, which is about half the time, its wonderful. So I decided that if I ground it and set the grind a bit coarser perhaps it wouldn't stall. Well it corrected the stall issues, but there is something oddly sweet tasting about the ground coffee. Its enough to change the nice flavor that the pre-ground has. I can't figure what might be happening to cause the taste to vary so between the bean and ground? Any thoughts on what might be happening..

              Larry

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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