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Re: [ustav] festal icons

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  • Stephen Reynolds
    -- On Sun, 5 Aug 2001 00:53:31 ... OK, the icon can be placed on the analogion before Vespers. I think this still leaves one questions open: is it an
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 5, 2001
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      --

      On Sun, 5 Aug 2001 00:53:31
      Ploverleigh wrote:
      >
      >In a message dated 8/4/01 9:42:31 AM, philipjm711@... writes:
      >
      ><< If a parish can only do Vespers and
      >Litya for a feast, not Mattins, is there a time when the icon can be brought out of the Altar, or should it simply be placsed on the
      >Analogion before the beginning of the service? >>
      >
      >This is what I've generaly seen. The Icon is placed out before Vespers.
      >
      >And don't forget, the Greeks and Arabs don't usually serve Vigil.
      OK, the icon can be placed on the analogion before Vespers. I think this still leaves one questions open: is it an acceptable alternative practice to bring it out in procession at the litiya? Or may it be carried in procession at the litiya at all? I don't see anything about this in the limited resources available here.

      Stephen Reynolds>


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    • Philip Majkrzak
      Thank you, Father John and Deacon D. Philip __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 5, 2001
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        Thank you, Father John and Deacon D.

        Philip

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      • Priest Seraphim Holland
        Come on boys and girls, place NICE! Please do not make me be the bad guy - emotional posts about medical reasons for fasting, and bishops not being bishops
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 5, 2001
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          Come on boys and girls, place NICE!

          Please do not make me be the bad guy - emotional posts about medical
          reasons for fasting, and bishops not being bishops because of broad
          brush generalizations that offend those with medical problems are not
          welcome on this list.

          Those with medical needs should treat non-fasting (according to the
          letter of the law) food as medicine. Therefore, instead of a steak,
          plain hamburger, without condiments; instead of salmon, tuna fish,
          out of the can, eaten over this sink with a fork; instead of
          flavoured yogurt, plain yogurt; instead of baked chicken, boiled
          chicken, eaten plain, etc, etc.

          Let this be the last word, PLEASE!

          > The question was NOT hypothetical.
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: <Ploverleigh@...>
          > To: <ustav@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 1:01 AM
          > Subject: Re: [ustav] Re: [ustav and typicon] Re: [orthodoxpsalm] Communion -
          > subdeacon
          >
          >
          > > In a message dated 8/4/01 3:42:42 AM, sraar@... writes:
          > >
          > > << As a priest
          > > friend of mine stated some years ago "when a bishop gives a dispensation
          > > from the holy canons - he is no longer a bishop". >>
          > >
          > > Which notion ignores the entire principle of OIKONOMIA--which says,
          > > basically, that if one of the canons is getting in the way of someone's
          > > salvation, that canon does not apply.
          > >
          > > I myself have diabetes, which was diagnosed only a few years ago. I have
          > been
          > > told by competent spiritual fathers and ordered by my own bishop (who is
          > > diabetic himself) not to attempt to keep the fasts--not even the
          > Eucharistic
          > > fast if my blood sugar takes a dangerous dip. And what they have told me I
          > > can assure you is the truth: eating in such a way as to keep my bgls under
          > > control is a greater act of asceticism than keeping the fasts strictly, as
          > > was my wont before.
          > >
          > > Those who know me know what grief not being able to keep the fasts
          > strictly
          > > brought me.
          > >
          > > So--are you saying that this bishop who so advised me is no longer a
          > bishop?
          > >
          > > <<We all know of a higly explosive situation some years ago where an
          > american
          > > hierach allowed one of his prominent priests (then divorced) to remarry -
          > a
          > > woman from his own parish, and remain serving, in the same
          > > parish.......well, was there a canon to explain that ?
          > > maybe....somewhere....>>
          > >
          > > We all know who the hierarch involved is. And without mentioning any
          > names,
          > > HE is the one who will have to answer at the Bema of Christ for this. Not
          > > you, not me, not anyone on this board.
          > >
          > > <<A canonical answer can be found to a situation which does not
          > > dispense with holy tradition and practise as we have been guided by the
          > Holy
          > > Spirit...>>
          > >
          > > The tradition that is guided by the Holy Spirit is life and liberty in
          > Jesus
          > > Christ, and not legalistic bondage. Otherwise, Judaism would have
          > sufficed.
          > >
          > > <<If the priest in
          > > question can not perform his duties adequately, if it disrupts the order
          > of
          > > the Church, then it becomes the bishops position to remove him and
          > maintain
          > > church order.>>
          > >
          > > Right. It becomes his bishop. It doesn't become you, and it doesn't become
          > me
          > > to presume to discipline or censure or remove him. (Pun intended.)
          > >
          > > If you don't want to allow a subdeacon to take the ablutions at your
          > altar,
          > > then don't. If another priest has this done, then simple charity demands
          > that
          > > you assume he had good reason for doing this extraordinary act. Not
          > judging
          > > others is traditional, too!
          > >
          > > In any case, I believe that the entire question was hypothetical. (I may
          > be
          > > mistaken.)
          > >
          > > <<It is necessary to deal with situations, however painful, with love and
          > > compassion. >>
          > >
          > > Which two qualities sound curiously missing from your posting, Father.
          > >
          > >
          > >
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          > >
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          > >
          > >
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          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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          Priest Seraphim Holland St Nicholas Orthodox Church, Dallas, Texas, USA
          seraphim@... Ph:972/529-2754 MOBILE & VOICE MAIL 214 336-3464
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