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Re: Wedding Bells

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  • millerr@cua.edu
    Dear Michael, Our bellringer, the Reader Job Woodill, says there are no rubrics (as far as he knows) for weddings; but that, when he was in Russia, he heard
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 1, 2001
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      Dear Michael,
      Our bellringer, the Reader Job Woodill, says there are no rubrics (as
      far as he knows) for weddings; but that, when he was in Russia, he
      heard them announced w/the Blagovest with a Zvon ot Trezvon at the
      beginning and a long Trezvon at the end.

      In Christ,
      Sergius




      --- In ustav@y..., "Michael M. Ossorgin" <mm@o...> wrote:
      > Dear List,
      >
      > We have five beautiful bells from Blagovest (Pyatkov) and are
      getting ready
      > to finish installing them for this weekend and my daughter Elizaveta
      and her
      > fiancée Seraphim's wedding. John Burnett's has offered a lot of
      valuable
      > information except neither of us on such short notice could not find
      any
      > rubrics for bell ringing at a Russian style wedding and any help is
      > appreciated. Thanks!
      >
      > In Christ, Michael
    • millerr@cua.edu
      Dear Michael, According to our bellringer, the Reader Job Woodill, there are no rubrics (as far as he knows) for weddings. When he was in Russia he observed
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 1, 2001
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        Dear Michael,
        According to our bellringer, the Reader Job Woodill, there are no
        rubrics (as far as he knows) for weddings. When he was in Russia he
        observed the following usage: Blagovest to announce the Wedding, a
        Zvon or a Trezvon at the beginning and a long Trezvon at the end.

        In Christ,
        Sergius





        -- In ustav@y..., "Michael M. Ossorgin" <mm@o...> wrote:
        > Dear List,
        >
        > We have five beautiful bells from Blagovest (Pyatkov) and are
        getting ready
        > to finish installing them for this weekend and my daughter Elizaveta
        and her
        > fiancée Seraphim's wedding. John Burnett's has offered a lot of
        valuable
        > information except neither of us on such short notice could not find
        any
        > rubrics for bell ringing at a Russian style wedding and any help is
        > appreciated. Thanks!
        >
        > In Christ, Michael
      • Michael M. Ossorgin
        ... Dear Sergius, Thanks a lot- that explains why I could not find any. We will follow your advice. In Christ, Michael
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 1, 2001
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          on 8/1/01 10:22 AM, millerr@... at millerr@... wrote:

          > Dear Michael,
          > Our bellringer, the Reader Job Woodill, says there are no rubrics (as
          > far as he knows) for weddings; but that, when he was in Russia, he
          > heard them announced w/the Blagovest with a Zvon ot Trezvon at the
          > beginning and a long Trezvon at the end.
          >
          > In Christ,
          > Sergius

          Dear Sergius,

          Thanks a lot- that explains why I could not find any. We will follow your
          advice.


          In Christ, Michael
        • Expanding Edge LLC
          Blessed be God. ... Thanks for the support, Michael! Anyway, Blagovest Bells, your full service Russian bell company, did get an answer to this question:
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 1, 2001
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            Blessed be God.

            > From: "Michael M. Ossorgin" <mm@...>
            > Subject: Wedding Bells
            >
            > We have five beautiful bells from Blagovest (Pyatkov) and are getting ready
            > to finish installing them for this weekend and my daughter Elizaveta and her
            > fiancee Seraphim's wedding. John Burnett has offered a lot of valuable
            > information except neither of us on such short notice could not find any
            > rubrics for bell ringing at a Russian style wedding and any help is
            > appreciated. Thanks!

            Thanks for the support, Michael!

            Anyway, Blagovest Bells, your "full service" Russian bell company, did
            get an answer to this question: Slightly edited for grammar, here's what
            Vladimir P. Korzh, Director of the Campanological Arts Association of
            Russia, of which we are members, wrote to us (it's helpful to be
            well-connected!):

            "Weddings require a solemn celebratory zvon on all bells, which
            accompanies the exit of the newlyweds from church after the wedding
            ceremony. It goes on the whole time the young couple is greeted by their
            friends and relatives at the threshold of the church. Their departure
            [by car] is accompanied with a zvon as well."

            So in other words, a full festal trezvon on all bells as the couple
            emerge from the church. Carry on with this for a good five minutes at
            least. Do you know how to do it? And again another trezvon as they get
            into their car and drive away.

            I would suggest also a short zvon as they (as the bride?) arrive(s) as
            well-- this not only serves to give the service a properly festal
            beginning, but also gets everyone's attention and gets them into the
            church and ready for the
            service. This ring should not be as elaborate as the celebratory one at
            the end.

            By the way, we were recently in touch with the Patriarch's bell ringer.
            He told us he has produced a book which discusses various ustavs and
            apparently suggests a standard one for parish use (bell-ringing, by the
            nature of the case, is very much a local tradition depending on the
            bells and the setup that each church has, but there are some general
            principles.) He would be interested in having us publish this book in
            English. Is anyone interested in translating it? With more than 30
            parishes now with bells, this would be an important service for the
            Church. So if you are interested, kindly contact me at
            blagovest@... and we can talk. I do have a possible
            publisher lined up, but any remuneration we could offer would have to
            come from sales.

            Regards,

            John Burnett
          • Expanding Edge LLC
            Blessed be God. Howdy: I ll respond on list to this private question because I know several ... No, because sets of bells differ and therefore you d have to
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 2, 2001
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              Blessed be God.

              Howdy:

              I'll respond on list to this private question because I know several
              people want to know:

              > John, at the risk of stirring up another hornets' nest--i'm writing to you
              > directly--is there a MUSICAL score somewhere for the different bell signals?

              No, because sets of bells differ and therefore you'd have to write a
              score for each tower.

              Also, and more importantly, bell ringing in the Orthodox tradition is
              largely an IMPROVISATIONAL art, although certain towers do have their
              own special traditional patterns. So go out and make music, and if you
              come up with something particularly good, try to remember it!

              The main principle in any case is that the deepest bell sets the pulse;
              on top of that you can play anything that sounds good. For the set of
              five bells which we've sold to many of our clients, 1-2-3-4-5, of which
              5 is the deepest, you could ring a pattern like this:

              5-3-4-3, 5-3-4-3, 5-3-4-3, ...

              and noodle around on top of that with nos. 1 and 2.

              But if you have a different set, you might have to come up with a
              different pattern, depending on how the chords resolve.

              Once again I strongly recommend, if you have not bought it already, to
              acquire a copy of "Bells of the Chud Region" from
              http://www.musicarussica.com (scroll down the front page about halfway;
              it's one of the featured albums at present). Not only is it one of the
              best albums of any kind that I own, but it will give you a good idea of
              what (large sets of) bells in Russia sound like. Some of the ringing is
              that of the Pskov Caves Monastery, which is the only place the tradition
              remained alive through the entire Soviet Era. Not that it's different
              anywhere else, but it's nice to know that we do have this living link.
              And now you can own it on cd!

              > What's in the Abridged Typicon is puzzlingeven to this man with grad degrees
              > in music...to say nothing about not even being in English! ("thricely
              > repeating..."

              I'm sure that would refer to a trezvon (a triple peal using all the
              bells), but I'll have to look at the relevant passage and get back to
              you tomorrow, unless you care to copy it here for comment.

              I do invite any of you who have bell ringing questions or bell ringing
              experience to correspond here, for discussion. I can always get answers
              from the Campanological Arts Association of Russia and/or the
              Patriarchal Zvonar if I don't have them, and I'd be very interested to
              know what local practices have emerged in various places.

              Regards,

              John Burnett
            • e42resq@yahoo.com
              ... BUT!(don t you hate when people say that) in my fledgling days of learning to ring bells, I had no teacher. I did what you suggest below, listened to old
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 2, 2001
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                --- In ustav@y..., Expanding Edge LLC <blagovest@r...> wrote:
                > Blessed be God.
                >
                > Howdy:
                > You are right John!
                BUT!(don't you hate when people say that) in my fledgling days
                of learning to ring bells, I had no teacher. I did what you suggest
                below, listened to old tapes, records, anything I could get my hands
                on! In theory, you should be able to listen to bells being rung, and
                then with some skill reproduce that ring. NOT! I always try to
                imagine the way a ringer is pulling, plucking, or pedaling the ropes,
                but when I see the peal actually being done! I just can only say !
                HUH! not what I thought I would see. In other words, especially in
                the Slavic style of bell ringing, or even greek(or Georgian, Serbian
                whatever)the sound or melodic rythym( I wouldn't call it just a
                melody)that is produced, has not as much direct relation to the
                actuall bell ringing as you would think. Of course there has to be
                some relation, which is more or less discernable depending on the
                kind of ring.(of course this whole time I am completely referring to
                some kind of Zvon, most of the other peals like a Perebor, Blagovest,
                or whatever are pretty much unskilled) Another factor in trying to
                discern and copy these peals is what we call in music or bell
                language an overtone. Bells unlike other musical instruments create
                multiple tones* on one bell(I myself have even used a three bell
                peal, and rang it with plastic hammers striking different areas of
                the bell, darn near sounded like ten bells!) of course the bigger the
                bell, the more potential for multiple tones! Another factor is that
                many Zvons have a very quick chime on the upper bells, and sometimes
                the rythym doesn't have any relation to the rest of the peal ! this
                creates much confusion to the ear, because it could be from two to
                ten bells rung together almoust simeltaineously at an almost
                unbelievable rate. Well anyway the whole point is, I love to listen
                to bell recordings, but it just doesn't happen that way, at least not
                for me. The only remote success I have had is digitally slowing down
                peals on my computer, even then the overtone really plays with your
                mind. Well John I hope I made enough trouble for you(last time you
                send me teaching bells anywhere)Just Kidding! on a educational note.
                Fr. Dcn. John and I are definitely planning some classes Both at the
                seminary and possibly at St. Stephens or maybe even at the My Humble
                Cathedral. Besides using the church bells we would bring our own demo
                bells, so we could have classroom teaching devices.
                *tech note- the actuall tone of the bell is created in you ear not
                in the bell, unlike some instruments. In Christ,
                Job
                > I'll respond on list to this private question because I know several
                > people want to know:
                >
                > > John, at the risk of stirring up another hornets' nest--i'm
                writing to you
                > > directly--is there a MUSICAL score somewhere for the different
                bell signals?
                >
                > No, because sets of bells differ and therefore you'd have to write a
                > score for each tower.
                >
                > Also, and more importantly, bell ringing in the Orthodox tradition
                is
                > largely an IMPROVISATIONAL art, although certain towers do have
                their
                > own special traditional patterns. So go out and make music, and if
                you
                > come up with something particularly good, try to remember it!
                >
                > The main principle in any case is that the deepest bell sets the
                pulse;
                > on top of that you can play anything that sounds good. For the set
                of
                > five bells which we've sold to many of our clients, 1-2-3-4-5, of
                which
                > 5 is the deepest, you could ring a pattern like this:
                >
                > 5-3-4-3, 5-3-4-3, 5-3-4-3, ...
                >
                > and noodle around on top of that with nos. 1 and 2.
                >
                > But if you have a different set, you might have to come up with a
                > different pattern, depending on how the chords resolve.
                >
                > Once again I strongly recommend, if you have not bought it already,
                to
                > acquire a copy of "Bells of the Chud Region" from
                > http://www.musicarussica.com (scroll down the front page about
                halfway;
                > it's one of the featured albums at present). Not only is it one of
                the
                > best albums of any kind that I own, but it will give you a good
                idea of
                > what (large sets of) bells in Russia sound like. Some of the
                ringing is
                > that of the Pskov Caves Monastery, which is the only place the
                tradition
                > remained alive through the entire Soviet Era. Not that it's
                different
                > anywhere else, but it's nice to know that we do have this living
                link.
                > And now you can own it on cd!
                >
                > > What's in the Abridged Typicon is puzzlingeven to this man with
                grad degrees
                > > in music...to say nothing about not even being in English!
                ("thricely
                > > repeating..."
                >
                > I'm sure that would refer to a trezvon (a triple peal using all the
                > bells), but I'll have to look at the relevant passage and get back
                to
                > you tomorrow, unless you care to copy it here for comment.
                >
                > I do invite any of you who have bell ringing questions or bell
                ringing
                > experience to correspond here, for discussion. I can always get
                answers
                > from the Campanological Arts Association of Russia and/or the
                > Patriarchal Zvonar if I don't have them, and I'd be very interested
                to
                > know what local practices have emerged in various places.
                >
                > Regards,
                >
                > John Burnett
              • Expanding Edge LLC
                Blessed be God. ... Hi, Job. Well, yes, of course. Learn from the actual tradition. What a concept! Just to let y all know that Blagovest Bells really is your
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 3, 2001
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                  Blessed be God.

                  > From: e42resq@...
                  > Subject: Re: Wedding Bells
                  >
                  > BUT!(don't you hate when people say that) in my fledgling days
                  > of learning to ring bells, I had no teacher. I did what you suggest
                  > below, listened to old tapes, records, anything I could get my hands
                  > on!

                  Hi, Job.

                  Well, yes, of course. Learn from the actual tradition. What a concept!

                  Just to let y'all know that Blagovest Bells really is your "full
                  service" Russian bell company, I posted a file on our website that
                  contains a wedding zvon done at Great Rostov: find it at
                  http://www.russianbells.com/xr/rostov-weddng.mp3. It's not linked to
                  anything, so you will have to go directly to it. Be warned though-- it's
                  4.4 megs long!

                  This is the first of about 30 mp3 or wav files I'm about to post, as
                  part of a general upheaval of the whole site. With a little luck and
                  your holy prayers, I'll be able (finally!) to do it this weekend!

                  Regards

                  BLAGOVEST RUSSIAN CHURCH BELLS

                  John Burnett
                  Executive Manager

                  http://www.russianbells.com
                  http://www.blagovestbells.com
                • Job Woodill
                  John, that url is not working for me, sure you have it right? I hope I didn t offend you with my last message! ... ===== Job Aaron Woodill
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 3, 2001
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                    John, that url is not working for me, sure you have it
                    right? I hope I didn't offend you with my last
                    message!
                    --- Expanding Edge LLC <blagovest@...>
                    wrote:
                    > Blessed be God.
                    >
                    > > From: e42resq@...
                    > > Subject: Re: Wedding Bells
                    > >
                    > > BUT!(don't you hate when people say that) in
                    > my fledgling days
                    > > of learning to ring bells, I had no teacher. I did
                    > what you suggest
                    > > below, listened to old tapes, records, anything I
                    > could get my hands
                    > > on!
                    >
                    > Hi, Job.
                    >
                    > Well, yes, of course. Learn from the actual
                    > tradition. What a concept!
                    >
                    > Just to let y'all know that Blagovest Bells really
                    > is your "full
                    > service" Russian bell company, I posted a file on
                    > our website that
                    > contains a wedding zvon done at Great Rostov: find
                    > it at
                    > http://www.russianbells.com/xr/rostov-weddng.mp3.
                    > It's not linked to
                    > anything, so you will have to go directly to it. Be
                    > warned though-- it's
                    > 4.4 megs long!
                    >
                    > This is the first of about 30 mp3 or wav files I'm
                    > about to post, as
                    > part of a general upheaval of the whole site. With a
                    > little luck and
                    > your holy prayers, I'll be able (finally!) to do it
                    > this weekend!
                    >
                    > Regards
                    >
                    > BLAGOVEST RUSSIAN CHURCH BELLS
                    >
                    > John Burnett
                    > Executive Manager
                    >
                    > http://www.russianbells.com
                    > http://www.blagovestbells.com
                    >
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                    =====
                    Job Aaron Woodill

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                  • Expanding Edge LLC
                    Blessed be God. ... Awwwwww, _man_!!! ... Here it is: http://www.russianbells.com/xr/rostov-wedding.mp3. Sorry! Misha, I hope you got my phone message and
                    Message 9 of 12 , Aug 5, 2001
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                      Blessed be God.

                      > From: Job Woodill <e42resq@...>
                      > Subject: Re: Wedding Bells
                      >
                      > John, that url is not working for me, sure you have it
                      > right? I hope I didn't offend you with my last
                      > message!

                      Awwwwww, _man_!!!

                      > > I posted a file on our website that
                      > > contains a wedding zvon done at Great Rostov: find
                      > > it at
                      > > ...www.russianbells.com/xr/rostov-weddng.mp3.

                      ---that last word should be "wedding" not "weddng"!

                      Here it is:

                      http://www.russianbells.com/xr/rostov-wedding.mp3.

                      Sorry! Misha, I hope you got my phone message and figured it out in time
                      for the wedding!

                      John Burnett
                    • Job Woodill
                      yeah it works now! ... ===== Job Aaron Woodill __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as
                      Message 10 of 12 , Aug 6, 2001
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                        yeah it works now!
                        --- Expanding Edge LLC <blagovest@...>
                        wrote:
                        > Blessed be God.
                        >
                        > > From: Job Woodill <e42resq@...>
                        > > Subject: Re: Wedding Bells
                        > >
                        > > John, that url is not working for me, sure you
                        > have it
                        > > right? I hope I didn't offend you with my last
                        > > message!
                        >
                        > Awwwwww, _man_!!!
                        >
                        > > > I posted a file on our website that
                        > > > contains a wedding zvon done at Great Rostov:
                        > find
                        > > > it at
                        > > > ...www.russianbells.com/xr/rostov-weddng.mp3.
                        >
                        > ---that last word should be "wedding" not "weddng"!
                        >
                        > Here it is:
                        >
                        > http://www.russianbells.com/xr/rostov-wedding.mp3.
                        >
                        > Sorry! Misha, I hope you got my phone message and
                        > figured it out in time
                        > for the wedding!
                        >
                        > John Burnett
                        >
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                        =====
                        Job Aaron Woodill

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                      • Christian Moulton
                        I think the problem is the period at the end of the link... ... Blessed be God. ... Awwwwww, _man_!!! ... Here it is:
                        Message 11 of 12 , Aug 6, 2001
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                          I think the problem is the period at the end of the link...

                          >>> blagovest@... 08/06/01 01:17AM >>>
                          Blessed be God.

                          > From: Job Woodill <e42resq@...>
                          > Subject: Re: Wedding Bells
                          >
                          > John, that url is not working for me, sure you have it
                          > right? I hope I didn't offend you with my last
                          > message!

                          Awwwwww, _man_!!!

                          > > I posted a file on our website that
                          > > contains a wedding zvon done at Great Rostov: find
                          > > it at
                          > > ...www.russianbells.com/xr/rostov-weddng.mp3

                          ---that last word should be "wedding" not "weddng"!

                          Here it is:

                          http://www.russianbells.com/xr/rostov-wedding.mp3.

                          Sorry! Misha, I hope you got my phone message and figured it out in time
                          for the wedding!

                          John Burnett



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