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Re: [ustav] Ecclesiastical titles

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  • Christopher Rakowski
    Xpicmoc Bockpece! I am curious to know whether it is possible for a rassophore monk to be ordained to the priesthood or diaconate. All the hieromonks and
    Message 1 of 21 , Apr 19, 1988
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      Xpicmoc Bockpece!

      I am curious to know whether it is possible for a rassophore monk to be
      ordained to the priesthood or diaconate. All the hieromonks and hierodeacons
      I seem to know are savrophores, i.e. tonsured into the little schema.

      What about hegumens and archimandrites? Since part of the liturgical "dress"
      of an archimandrite is a slightly more elaborate version of the monastic
      mantiya (basically a black version of a Bishop's mantiya), I would guess
      that, in order to be an archimandrite, one must first receive the little
      schema (part of which is the bestowing of the mantiya).

      What about the case of a secular (white) priest whose wife dies, or one who
      was celibate to begin with, who subsequently becomes a monk? Is he tonsured
      straight into the little schema, or would he proceed through the various
      grades (novice, rassophore, etc.) as anyone else?

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Ploverleigh@... <Ploverleigh@...>
      To: ustav@egroups.com <ustav@egroups.com>
      Date: 29 April 2000 17:22
      Subject: Re: [ustav] Ecclesiastical titles


      >
      >In a message dated 4/28/00 10:33:16 AM, tomcres@... writes:
      >
      ><< Thank you for the information. But what I also would like to know is
      what
      >each of the titles means. For instance, I have no idea what an
      "Archimandrite"
      >or a "Hegumen" is. What is the difference between "Monk", "Hieromonk",
      >"Schemamonk", and "Hieroschemamonk"? What is the difference between a
      "Priest"
      >and "Archpriest" (or "Deacon" and "Archdeacon")?
      >And what are their ecclesiastical functions? Perhaps someone can refer
      >me to a book which discusses this in detail. >>
      >
      >There are three degrees or grades in Orthodox monasticism. All involve
      >scissors, and different parts of the habit are given.
      >
      >1. Rassophore--lowest grade--given the riassa and klobuk.
      >2. Stavrophore (aka small schema, mikroschemos, or mantle monk)--pronounces
      >the four vows for the first time, and in addition wears the paramadyas,
      >cross, and mandyas.
      >3. Great Schema (aka great habit, megaschemos, skhmimnik, or
      >scehmamonk)--pronounces the vows again and receives (in addition) the
      kokollio
      >n and analavos (aka polystavros or schema).
      >
      >The same applies to nuns, of course. Monasticism is a unisex institution.
      >
      >Hieromonk is a priest who is a monk (of whatever grade).
      >Hierodeacon is a deacon who is a monk.
      >
      >Archpriest and Archdeacon (or protodeacon) are titles of honor. As one such
      >said, an archpriest gets a cross that's BIGGER and HEAVIER than a simple
      >priest. (Generally deans and other dignitaries will be archpriests. The
      >principal deacon on the Bishop's staff will be made a proto- or archdeacon.
      >
      >Archimandrite and Hegumen are, as I said, monastic titles, and are now
      >frequently given as a title of honor to monastic clergy. Originally they
      were
      >reserved for superiors of monasteries.
      >
      >The function of any priest (arch- or non) or deacon is whatever his Bishop
      >gives him, obviously.
      >
      >------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers.
      >http://click.egroups.com/1/3019/5/_/2046/_/957025405/
      >------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      >See Ustav information at http://www.orthodox.net/ustav
      >
      >This mailing list's archives are at http://www.egroups.com/group/ustav
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Robert Koch
      My guess, pessimistic one at that, is that Alpha will be the 21st century s Cursillo. I recall around 20-25 years ago this was going to be the thing that set
      Message 2 of 21 , May 2, 2000
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        My guess, pessimistic one at that, is that Alpha will be the 21st
        century's Cursillo. I recall around 20-25 years ago this was going to be
        the thing that set the world on fire. Well, since that time everyone and
        his uncle in the episcopal church has "made" their cursillo; it is a
        secret society unto itself. Results? Vast loss of members, 2-groom
        marriages, utterly flakey bishops and clergy, (and I bet 100% of them
        Cusillo veterans) along with laity who are essntially gnostics.
        I predict Alpha is the latest version of professional wrestling to be done
        in churches of the anglican persuasion. Other than that, I bet it's just
        peachy.
      • Robert Koch
        Please excuse last absurd post!!! Sent to WRONG LIST. My infallibility seems to grow more obvious daily.
        Message 3 of 21 , May 2, 2000
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          Please excuse last absurd post!!! Sent to WRONG LIST. My infallibility
          seems to grow more obvious daily.
        • Photius Lipsio
          The following was written by Christopher Rakowski on Tue, 19 Apr 1988 22:59:04 ... In the Russian Church, only a stavrophore is normally ordained. I know of
          Message 4 of 21 , May 2, 2000
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            The following was written by Christopher Rakowski on Tue, 19 Apr 1988 22:59:04

            | I am curious to know whether it is possible for a rassophore monk to be
            | ordained to the priesthood or diaconate. All the hieromonks and hierodeacons
            | I seem to know are savrophores, i.e. tonsured into the little schema.

            In the Russian Church, only a stavrophore is normally ordained. I know of cases
            of monks in the great schema being ordained (including an ROCOR bishop), but
            they all were tonsured into the great schema outside of the Russian Church, and
            exceptions to the normal custom were made because they were tonsured in places
            where the little schema is not used.
            Monks without either schema ("rassophores" in Russian usage) are not ordained in
            the Russian Church, but this is a local custom. Elsewhere, pretty much all
            monks outside of monasteries, bishops and archimandrites, are "rassophores",
            including most of the patriachs presently.

            | What about hegumens and archimandrites? Since part of the liturgical "dress"
            | of an archimandrite is a slightly more elaborate version of the monastic
            | mantiya (basically a black version of a Bishop's mantiya), I would guess
            | that, in order to be an archimandrite, one must first receive the little
            | schema (part of which is the bestowing of the mantiya).

            The bishop's mantia is put on the bishop after he is divested at the end of the
            liturgy at which he was ordained. This is done even if he has not been tonsured
            into either schema, in which case this is the first time he has ever worn a
            mandia, and is given the right to wear it by virtue of being a hierarch.

            | What about the case of a secular (white) priest whose wife dies, or one who
            | was celibate to begin with, who subsequently becomes a monk? Is he tonsured
            | straight into the little schema, or would he proceed through the various
            | grades (novice, rassophore, etc.) as anyone else?

            He is never called a novice, but lives in the monastery until such a time as he
            becomes a monk. In the Russian Church, he is tonsured directly into the schema,
            nearly always the little schema. In Greek practice, he is tonsured the same as
            anyone else, that is, is usually tonsured into the rasson initially.

            To the best of my knowledge, when an ordained monk takes the great schema, he
            must cease serving. It is not uncommon in Greece when one is elected a bishop,
            to take the great schema before being ordained a bishop.

            Christ is Risen !
            Photius
          • Ploverleigh@aol.com
            In a message dated 5/2/00 4:09:48 PM, christopher@rakowski2.freeserve.co.uk writes:
            Message 5 of 21 , May 2, 2000
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              In a message dated 5/2/00 4:09:48 PM, christopher@...
              writes:

              << Xpicmoc Bockpece!

              I am curious to know whether it is possible for a rassophore monk to be
              ordained to the priesthood or diaconate. All the hieromonks and hierodeacons
              I seem to know are savrophores, i.e. tonsured into the little schema. >>

              Oh, it's possible, all right! I've seen it happen with my own eyes! I was
              even the choir director for one such service!

              Abp. Iakovos, sometime head of the Greek Archdioces, is just a rassophore--or
              so I've been told. My information may well be inaccurate.
            • Ploverleigh@aol.com
              In a message dated 5/2/00 4:09:48 PM, christopher@rakowski2.freeserve.co.uk writes:
              Message 6 of 21 , May 2, 2000
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                In a message dated 5/2/00 4:09:48 PM, christopher@...
                writes:

                << What about hegumens and archimandrites? Since part of the liturgical
                "dress"
                of an archimandrite is a slightly more elaborate version of the monastic
                mantiya (basically a black version of a Bishop's mantiya), I would guess
                that, in order to be an archimandrite, one must first receive the little
                schema (part of which is the bestowing of the mantiya). >>

                I have heard that--at least in some places--the superior wears a mandyas
                though just a rassophore. I know of one such in Ohio, but for the life of me
                I cannot think of his name.
              • Ploverleigh@aol.com
                In a message dated 5/2/00 4:09:48 PM, christopher@rakowski2.freeserve.co.uk writes:
                Message 7 of 21 , May 2, 2000
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                  In a message dated 5/2/00 4:09:48 PM, christopher@...
                  writes:

                  << What about the case of a secular (white) priest whose wife dies, or one who
                  was celibate to begin with, who subsequently becomes a monk? Is he tonsured
                  straight into the little schema, or would he proceed through the various
                  grades (novice, rassophore, etc.) as anyone else? >>

                  It is theoretically possible to tonsure directly into stavrophore or even
                  great schema rank, omitting the one or two steps beforehand.

                  St. Nicoedmos of the Holy Mountain wrote an essay on the subject, saying that
                  rassophore and stavrophore should be suppressed.
                • Ploverleigh@aol.com
                  In a message dated 5/2/00 4:52:28 PM, photius@lipsio.com writes:
                  Message 8 of 21 , May 2, 2000
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                    In a message dated 5/2/00 4:52:28 PM, photius@... writes:

                    << To the best of my knowledge, when an ordained monk takes the great schema,
                    he
                    must cease serving. It is not uncommon in Greece when one is elected a
                    bishop,
                    to take the great schema before being ordained a bishop. >>

                    I believe that this is principally a Great Russian practice.

                    The other churches are somewhat "freer" with tonsuring to the great schema
                    than the Russian church.
                  • Isaac E. Lambertsen
                    Dear Photius & Christopher, Christ is risen! While it is a general practice that stavrophore monks are ordained to the holy priesthood, the late Metropolitan
                    Message 9 of 21 , May 4, 2000
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                      Dear Photius & Christopher,

                      Christ is risen!

                      While it is a general practice that stavrophore monks are ordained to the
                      holy priesthood, the late Metropolitan Philaret did make exceptions. One
                      hieromonk of the ROCOR's Diocese of Eastern America & New York was indeed
                      ordained while still a rassophore (and so he continues to this day).

                      In the hope that this fact proves interesting, I am

                      Sincerely yours,

                      Isaac Lambertsen.
                    • Expanding Edge LLC
                      Glory to Jesus Christ! Again, late because of an ISP problem-- but I don t recall that anyone answered, so I ll send it in. ... Vladika is Slavonic for Gk.
                      Message 10 of 21 , May 8, 2000
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                        Glory to Jesus Christ!

                        Again, late because of an ISP problem-- but I don't recall that anyone
                        answered, so I'll send it in.

                        albann@... wrote:
                        >
                        > Where does the title Vladika come in, and what is its English
                        > translation?

                        Vladika is Slavonic for Gk. Despotes (accent on the second syllable in
                        the nominative; the vocative, however, is 'Despota', with accent on the
                        first syllable). It means "Master". The Latin translation would
                        typically be 'Domine' but I remember seeing 'Domne'; not, however,
                        Magister.

                        Regards,

                        John Burnett



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