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[ustav] Re: prokeimenon for the New Martyrs

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  • Carol A Surgant
    Dear Matushka Cindy, Perhaps someone else will answer this more authoritatively. As far as I can remember, it is Tone 4. I don t have the books here at home.
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 4, 2000
      Dear Matushka Cindy,

      Perhaps someone else will answer this more authoritatively.

      As far as I can remember, it is Tone 4. I don't have the books
      here at home. E. Riggins' choir cues have Tone 4 and I proofed
      through that early in the week and don't remember noticing a
      problem with the prok.

      I hope you all are well. Please greet Christina from us, especially
      Stephanie who is her God-child.

      love,

      Carol


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    • Carol A Surgant
      Apologies for the erroneous post. Can someone please look up for me the Service for the Royal Martyrs July 4. I am confused why the English menaion gives the
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 4, 2000
        Apologies for the erroneous post. Can someone please look up
        for me the Service for the Royal Martyrs July 4. I am
        confused why the English menaion gives the Prokeimenon in
        the 4th Tone for Liturgy on July 4, though it is identical to the one
        for the Sunday of the New Martyrs of Russia? - The Apostle
        Reading is identical. I don't own a complete set of Slavonic
        books for reference.

        with love, Carol



        On Sat, 5 Feb 2000 14:10:20 -0500 Cindy K Williams <cktwms@...>
        writes:
        > Maybe I missed a previous discussion on this....but what tone is the
        > prokeimenon supposed to be in for the New Martyrs? The music that I
        > have
        > with the Slavonic in two places gives it in Tone 7, yet the menaion
        > says
        > Tone 4. It must be that Tone 4 is correct, but why the discrepancy?
        >
        > Thank you for any insights.
        > In Christ,
        > (Matushka)Cindy Williams
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      • Cindy K Williams
        Maybe I missed a previous discussion on this....but what tone is the prokeimenon supposed to be in for the New Martyrs? The music that I have with the
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 5, 2000
          Maybe I missed a previous discussion on this....but what tone is the
          prokeimenon supposed to be in for the New Martyrs? The music that I have
          with the Slavonic in two places gives it in Tone 7, yet the menaion says
          Tone 4. It must be that Tone 4 is correct, but why the discrepancy?
          Thank you for any insights.
          In Christ,
          (Matushka)Cindy Williams
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        • Spence
          The Apostolos (translation by George Osborne and Isaac Lambertson) has it in tone 7. Our deacon (who is extremely thorough) proofed the order of service that
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 5, 2000
            The Apostolos (translation by George Osborne and Isaac Lambertson) has it
            in tone 7. Our deacon (who is extremely thorough) proofed the order of
            service that I put together, and he left it at tone 7.


            At 02:10 PM 2/5/00 -0500, you wrote:
            >Maybe I missed a previous discussion on this....but what tone is the
            >prokeimenon supposed to be in for the New Martyrs? The music that I have
            >with the Slavonic in two places gives it in Tone 7, yet the menaion says
            >Tone 4. It must be that Tone 4 is correct, but why the discrepancy?
            >Thank you for any insights.
            >In Christ,
            >(Matushka)Cindy Williams
            >________________________________________________________________
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          • Spence
            Sorry, should have included this in my last post... The copy of the menaion that I have (also Isaac s translation), has tone 7 for the prokeimenon as well.
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 5, 2000
              Sorry, should have included this in my last post...

              The copy of the menaion that I have (also Isaac's translation), has tone 7
              for the prokeimenon as well.


              At 04:09 PM 2/5/00 -0500, you wrote:
              >The Apostolos (translation by George Osborne and Isaac Lambertson) has it
              >in tone 7. Our deacon (who is extremely thorough) proofed the order of
              >service that I put together, and he left it at tone 7.
              >
              >
              >At 02:10 PM 2/5/00 -0500, you wrote:
              >>Maybe I missed a previous discussion on this....but what tone is the
              >>prokeimenon supposed to be in for the New Martyrs? The music that I have
              >>with the Slavonic in two places gives it in Tone 7, yet the menaion says
              >>Tone 4. It must be that Tone 4 is correct, but why the discrepancy?
              >>Thank you for any insights.
              >>In Christ,
              >>(Matushka)Cindy Williams
              >>________________________________________________________________
              >>YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
              >>Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
              >>Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
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              >>
              >>
              >>
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              >>
              >>
              >
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            • Isaac E. Lambertsen
              Dear Matushka, The discrepancy is more apparent than real. The Liturgy prokimenon is indeed in Tone VII. But in churches dedicated to the New Martyrs of
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 5, 2000
                Dear Matushka,

                The discrepancy is more apparent than real. The Liturgy prokimenon is
                indeed in Tone VII. But in churches dedicated to the New Martyrs of Russia,
                the identical psalm text is used for the Matins Gospel prokimenon, which is
                designated in Tone IV. The Matins prokimenon always takes its tone from the
                tone of the Hymns of Ascent, regardless whether the psalm text is commonly
                used in another tone in all other contexts (e.g., Their sound has gone forth
                [Tone VIII], etc.). I believe that in churches dedicated to the New
                Martyrs, the Tone IV Hymns of Ascent (From my youth...) would replace the
                Hymns of Ascent of the tone of the week (this year, Tone III); hence the
                matins prokimenon would also be chanted in Tone IV.

                ----------
                >From: Cindy K Williams <cktwms@...>

                > Maybe I missed a previous discussion on this....but what tone is the
                > prokeimenon supposed to be in for the New Martyrs? The music that I have
                > with the Slavonic in two places gives it in Tone 7, yet the menaion says
                > Tone 4. It must be that Tone 4 is correct, but why the discrepancy?
              • Ploverleigh@aol.com
                In a message dated 2/6/00 12:29:46 AM, ilector@acninc.net writes:
                Message 7 of 7 , Feb 6, 2000
                  In a message dated 2/6/00 12:29:46 AM, ilector@... writes:

                  << I believe that in churches dedicated to the New
                  Martyrs, the Tone IV Hymns of Ascent (From my youth...) would replace the
                  Hymns of Ascent of the tone of the week (this year, Tone III); hence the
                  matins prokimenon would also be chanted in Tone IV.
                  >>

                  Only time anything from the Sunday Octoechos is replaced is when a Great
                  Feast of the Lord--Holy Cross, Nativity, Theophany, Transfiguration, and some
                  say Meeting--falls on a Sunday.

                  So, the Anavathmoi today would be those for the Resurrection in Tone 3.

                  ON the other hand, some say that a Patronal (Temple) Feast ranks as a Feast
                  of the Lord, so there you go.

                  Depends on what book you look in....or what WILLAGE you come from.
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