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[ustav] Re: Censing

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  • millerr@cua.edu
    Both practices seem to be in use. However, censing everyone after the iconostasis before going through the temple & censing both icons & people seems to be
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 1, 1999
      Both practices seem to be in use. However, censing everyone after the
      iconostasis before going through the temple & censing both icons &
      people seems to be much more common. The 2nd. practice, censing all
      from the soleas after going through & censing both icons & people, was
      the practice of the late Archimandrite Nicholas (Pekatoros) former
      pastor of St. John the Baptist in D.C. Also, an added note, all four
      censings at the Vigil should be full censings.

      In Christ,
      Sergius Miller, sbdn.



      "p gromoff" <frnikodi-@...> wrote:
      original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/ustav/?start=3156
      > If anyone can enlighten me, I would be grateful. During the "great"
      censing
      > (before the Divine Liturgy, during the first psalm in Vigil, etc.),
      does the
      > priest/deacon first cense all of the icons (iconostasis and
      throughout the
      > temple) and then, upon his return to the solea, all of the faithful
      ---or---
      > the icons on the iconostasis first, then the faithful, and *then* the
      icons
      > in the temple? I vaguely remember hearing, back in seminary, that
      the icons
      > of the glorified are to be censed first (those in the "Church
      Triumphant"),
      > and *then* the icons of those [us] in the "Church Militant". This
      does make
      > sense liturgically, but lacking a rubrical source I am not sure.
      Thanks for
      > any insight!
      >
      > In XC,
      > Fr. Nikodim
      >
      > ______________________________________________________
    • M K
      unsuscribe ... From: Fr. John W. Morris Reply-To: ustav@egroups.com To: Subject: [ustav] Re: Censing Date: Sat, 30
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 1, 1999
        unsuscribe



        ----Original Message Follows----
        From: "Fr. John W. Morris" <frjohn@...>
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        Subject: [ustav] Re: Censing
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        unsuscribe
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Trfcc@... <Trfcc@...>
        To: ustav@egroups.com <ustav@egroups.com>
        Date: Saturday, October 30, 1999 4:15 PM
        Subject: [ustav] Re: Censing


        >In a message dated 10/30/99 5:11:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
        >frnikodim@... writes:
        >
        ><< the icons on the iconostasis first, then the faithful, and *then* the
        >icons
        > in the temple >>
        >
        >This is what I do here at the Cathedral, and what is done at St. Tikhon's
        >Monastery although at SVS they cense the people last.
        >
        >Hieromonk Christopher
        >you neighbor
        >
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        >
        >See Ustav information at http://www.orthodox.net/ustav
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      • jeremiasiiwasright
        Hello, I belong to an OCA parish. During the censing of the entire nave and narthex when the priest censes the icons on the walls, what is the correct posture
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 25, 2008
          Hello,
          I belong to an OCA parish. During the censing of the entire nave and
          narthex when the priest censes the icons on the walls, what is the
          correct posture for the laity? We have some folks who turn to face
          the priest and as he censes each wall turning to face him with each
          new wall, while others simply stand still and continue to look
          straight ahead. What is liturgically correct?

          I'm not asking to fill myself with pride about being 'correct', I
          simply want to be educated in the correct form.

          Thank you.!
        • Martinian
          It is my experience that when the icons on the South, West and North walls are censed, parishioners will “make way”, allowing the Priest or Deacon to cense
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 25, 2008
            It is my experience that when the icons on the South, West and North
            walls are censed, parishioners will “make way”, allowing the Priest or
            Deacon to cense the icons directly. Those so doing remain facing the
            wall (and clergy doing the censing) until they too are censed, at which
            they bow. The censing moves on, and the people turn to face the Royal
            Doors once more. As a child, I had more than one old babushka cluck at
            me if I did a full turn, thus turning my back to the altar; likewise
            those at the West wall turn to one side or another, not facing or bowing
            toward the West.
            In one parish where everyone was a fairly new convert, and there were no
            babushki to scold and instruct :-), everyone in the church turned full
            circle to remain facing the priest at all times—this was inappropriate
            as I understand it (though my upbringing was admittedly a bit more
            severe than most when it came to observance of such things), although
            innocent, and hardly reprehensible.
            I have also seen parishioners simply step aside, remain facing East,
            and bow as the Priest censes to one side then the other, first the
            icons, then the people. I surmise that, at the very least, this practice
            would be preferable in a more crowded church, to avoid the shuffling and
            kafuffle caused by many people rotating this way or that.

            One thing I know for sure: don’t turn your back to the Altar!

            “Nyetnyetnyet! Tststststs!” ;o)

            Forgive me!

            Sdn. Martinian


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • jeremiasiiwasright
            Ok. Thanks for the help Sdn. Martinian In XC, matthew
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 25, 2008
              Ok. Thanks for the help Sdn. Martinian
              In XC,
              matthew
            • Anna Voellmecke
              ... According to the bishop of our diocese, the people should *not* spin around watching the censing, because it distracts them from what is being read or
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 25, 2008
                At 12:40 PM 1/25/2008, you wrote:
                >Hello,
                >I belong to an OCA parish. During the censing of the entire nave and
                >narthex when the priest censes the icons on the walls, what is the
                >correct posture for the laity? We have some folks who turn to face
                >the priest and as he censes each wall turning to face him with each
                >new wall, while others simply stand still and continue to look
                >straight ahead. What is liturgically correct?

                According to the bishop of our diocese, the people should *not* spin
                around watching the censing, because it distracts them from what is
                being read or chanted.

                Anna V.


                >I'm not asking to fill myself with pride about being 'correct', I
                >simply want to be educated in the correct form.
                >
                >Thank you.!
                >
                >
                >
                >
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              • frjsilver@optonline.net
                Dear Friends -- As I learned when I was very young -- just from observing people around me in the pewless churches I attended -- and as I was instructed when I
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 25, 2008
                  Dear Friends --

                  As I learned when I was very young -- just from observing people around me in the pewless churches I attended -- and as I was instructed when I first entered the monastery, the people in the nave move away from the walls while the deacon (or priest) performs a 'great censing'.

                  It should be obvious to all that our liturgical rubrics do not assume that there is any such thing as pews or aisles in God's temples. Local customs accommodating such things, especially in North America, are concessions to heterodox practice in church design, and ought to be abolished along with the pews which provoke them.

                  Without turning away from the altar, the people closest to the walls make a slight bow as the deacon passes by them. He's not actually censing *them* and shouldn't (if he is) -- that's done from the ambon -- but emphasizing and acknowledging the boundaries of 'sacred space' in a ritual mostly described by liturgical scholars as 'lustration'.

                  A local priest, in a metaphor I appreciate, describes the rotation of people to follow the deacon's progress around the nave in terms of sunflowers, whose large but unthinking heads twist with the sun's apparent movement in the sky and then must right themselves in the darkness of night.

                  Altogether, it can be said that the people in the nave should not turn around to follow the deacon or priest as he censes the perimeter of the nave.

                  Peace and blessings to all.

                  Monk James



                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: jeremiasiiwasright
                  Date: Friday, January 25, 2008 1:41 pm
                  Subject: [ustav] Censing
                  To: ustav@yahoogroups.com

                  > Hello,
                  > I belong to an OCA parish. During the censing of the entire
                  > nave and
                  > narthex when the priest censes the icons on the walls, what is the
                  > correct posture for the laity? We have some folks who turn to face
                  > the priest and as he censes each wall turning to face him with each
                  > new wall, while others simply stand still and continue to look
                  > straight ahead. What is liturgically correct?
                  >
                  > I'm not asking to fill myself with pride about being 'correct', I
                  > simply want to be educated in the correct form.
                  >
                  > Thank you.!
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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