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Great Entrance Commemoration

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  • subdeaconmichaelastley
    Dear fathers, brothers, and sisters, In some texts of the Liturgy, I have seen indicated that, at the final commemoration by the priest (of those present), the
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 6, 2013
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      Dear fathers, brothers, and sisters,

      In some texts of the Liturgy, I have seen indicated that, at the final commemoration by the priest (of those present), the people likewise commemorate him with, "May the Lord God remember thy priesthood in his Kingdom... &c."

      I know that the deacon does this but had not seen it written down that the people do likewise until recently, although I have witnessed the practice in one parish.

      Is this fairly widespread?

      Thank you.

      In Christ,
      M
    • James Silver
      This is the custom of several parishes here in the New Jersey deanery of the OCA. Monk James ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: ustav@yahoogroups.com
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 6, 2013
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        This is the custom of several parishes here in the New Jersey deanery of the
        OCA.

        Monk James
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        From: ustav@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ustav@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        subdeaconmichaelastley
        Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 11:30 AM
        To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [ustav] Great Entrance Commemoration

         
        Dear fathers, brothers, and sisters,

        In some texts of the Liturgy, I have seen indicated that, at the final
        commemoration by the priest (of those present), the people likewise
        commemorate him with, "May the Lord God remember thy priesthood in his
        Kingdom... &c."

        I know that the deacon does this but had not seen it written down that the
        people do likewise until recently, although I have witnessed the practice in
        one parish.

        Is this fairly widespread?

        Thank you.

        In Christ,
        M
      • Bradley Anderson
        It is indeed not an uncommon practice. The question to me is at what point in time were the deacon s lines changed to lines assigned to the people in
        Message 3 of 19 , Aug 6, 2013
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          It is indeed not an uncommon practice. The question to me is at what point
          in time were the deacon's lines changed to lines assigned to "the people"
          in printed service books. (Keeping at mind that at some point
          historically, these may not have only been deacon's lines, but they have
          been for a long time, at least in the service books).

          The most common usurpation of the deacon's part of liturgical dialogue by
          the people is the practice of having "the people" say the "Amen's" assigned
          to the deacon at the epiclesis. The sound effect reminds me of "responsive
          readings" from my Protestant days of 30 years ago. Another oddity I have
          encountered recently is the line "behold thy/your lips have touched..."
          (can't remember the exact words) that are normally said by the priest to
          the deacon after the clergy communion in the altar. The priest in this
          situation turns and proclaims these lines to the whole people after
          communion from the ambon. This may also be a common practice in some
          places, but I hadn't encountered it before in the dozens of parishes I have
          attended.

          It seems that the poor deacons just get their dialogue stolen right and
          left -- no respect! Granted, I understand that at some point deacons stole
          some of the canonarch's lines historically...

          Rdr. Edward (Brad) Anderson


          On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 12:20 PM, James Silver <frjsilver@...> wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          > This is the custom of several parishes here in the New Jersey deanery of
          > the
          > OCA.
          >
          > Monk James
          > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          >
          > From: ustav@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ustav@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          > subdeaconmichaelastley
          > Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 11:30 AM
          > To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [ustav] Great Entrance Commemoration
          >
          >
          > Dear fathers, brothers, and sisters,
          >
          > In some texts of the Liturgy, I have seen indicated that, at the final
          > commemoration by the priest (of those present), the people likewise
          > commemorate him with, "May the Lord God remember thy priesthood in his
          > Kingdom... &c."
          >
          > I know that the deacon does this but had not seen it written down that the
          > people do likewise until recently, although I have witnessed the practice
          > in
          > one parish.
          >
          > Is this fairly widespread?
          >
          > Thank you.
          >
          > In Christ,
          > M
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • subdeaconmichaelastley
          Thank you, both. That is helpful. The first time I heard it, it was both unexpected and in French so I didn t have time to decipher what I had just heard. It
          Message 4 of 19 , Aug 6, 2013
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            Thank you, both.

            That is helpful. The first time I heard it, it was both unexpected and in French so I didn't have time to decipher what I had just heard. It was only some months later when I saw it in text that I realised what it must have been.

            I wonder whether it happens much outside of Russian liturgical practice. What is the tradition of these NJ OCA parishes, Father James? My only experience of it has been in the Church Abroad.

            Reader Edward, I have witnessed "Behold this has touched", as you describe, in some parts of the Sourozh diocese. The practice is mentioned as a variant custom in "A Practical Handbook for Divine Services". As this was compiled, at least in part, using now that Fr Gregory (Woolfenden) distributed to his brother clergy while he was in the Sourozh diocese, the local examples at least may stem from him. Where the practice originates, I cannot say.

            M

            --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Bradley Anderson <andersonwbradley@...> wrote:
            >
            > It is indeed not an uncommon practice. The question to me is at what point
            > in time were the deacon's lines changed to lines assigned to "the people"
            > in printed service books. (Keeping at mind that at some point
            > historically, these may not have only been deacon's lines, but they have
            > been for a long time, at least in the service books).
            >
            > The most common usurpation of the deacon's part of liturgical dialogue by
            > the people is the practice of having "the people" say the "Amen's" assigned
            > to the deacon at the epiclesis. The sound effect reminds me of "responsive
            > readings" from my Protestant days of 30 years ago. Another oddity I have
            > encountered recently is the line "behold thy/your lips have touched..."
            > (can't remember the exact words) that are normally said by the priest to
            > the deacon after the clergy communion in the altar. The priest in this
            > situation turns and proclaims these lines to the whole people after
            > communion from the ambon. This may also be a common practice in some
            > places, but I hadn't encountered it before in the dozens of parishes I have
            > attended.
            >
            > It seems that the poor deacons just get their dialogue stolen right and
            > left -- no respect! Granted, I understand that at some point deacons stole
            > some of the canonarch's lines historically...
            >
            > Rdr. Edward (Brad) Anderson
            >
            >
            > On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 12:20 PM, James Silver <frjsilver@...> wrote:
            >
            > > **
            > >
            > >
            > > This is the custom of several parishes here in the New Jersey deanery of
            > > the
            > > OCA.
            > >
            > > Monk James
            > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            > >
            > > From: ustav@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ustav@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            > > subdeaconmichaelastley
            > > Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 11:30 AM
            > > To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [ustav] Great Entrance Commemoration
            > >
            > >
            > > Dear fathers, brothers, and sisters,
            > >
            > > In some texts of the Liturgy, I have seen indicated that, at the final
            > > commemoration by the priest (of those present), the people likewise
            > > commemorate him with, "May the Lord God remember thy priesthood in his
            > > Kingdom... &c."
            > >
            > > I know that the deacon does this but had not seen it written down that the
            > > people do likewise until recently, although I have witnessed the practice
            > > in
            > > one parish.
            > >
            > > Is this fairly widespread?
            > >
            > > Thank you.
            > >
            > > In Christ,
            > > M
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • subdeaconmichaelastley
            ...using now that Fr Gregory (Woolfenden) distributed to his brother clergy... I did, of course, mean using notes . Auto- correct had its way.
            Message 5 of 19 , Aug 6, 2013
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              "...using now that Fr Gregory (Woolfenden) distributed to his brother clergy..."

              I did, of course, mean "using notes". Auto-"correct" had its way.

              --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "subdeaconmichaelastley" <subdeaconmichael@...> wrote:
              >
              > Thank you, both.
              >
              > That is helpful. The first time I heard it, it was both unexpected and in French so I didn't have time to decipher what I had just heard. It was only some months later when I saw it in text that I realised what it must have been.
              >
              > I wonder whether it happens much outside of Russian liturgical practice. What is the tradition of these NJ OCA parishes, Father James? My only experience of it has been in the Church Abroad.
              >
              > Reader Edward, I have witnessed "Behold this has touched", as you describe, in some parts of the Sourozh diocese. The practice is mentioned as a variant custom in "A Practical Handbook for Divine Services". As this was compiled, at least in part, using now that Fr Gregory (Woolfenden) distributed to his brother clergy while he was in the Sourozh diocese, the local examples at least may stem from him. Where the practice originates, I cannot say.
              >
              > M
              >
              > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Bradley Anderson <andersonwbradley@> wrote:
              > >
              > > It is indeed not an uncommon practice. The question to me is at what point
              > > in time were the deacon's lines changed to lines assigned to "the people"
              > > in printed service books. (Keeping at mind that at some point
              > > historically, these may not have only been deacon's lines, but they have
              > > been for a long time, at least in the service books).
              > >
              > > The most common usurpation of the deacon's part of liturgical dialogue by
              > > the people is the practice of having "the people" say the "Amen's" assigned
              > > to the deacon at the epiclesis. The sound effect reminds me of "responsive
              > > readings" from my Protestant days of 30 years ago. Another oddity I have
              > > encountered recently is the line "behold thy/your lips have touched..."
              > > (can't remember the exact words) that are normally said by the priest to
              > > the deacon after the clergy communion in the altar. The priest in this
              > > situation turns and proclaims these lines to the whole people after
              > > communion from the ambon. This may also be a common practice in some
              > > places, but I hadn't encountered it before in the dozens of parishes I have
              > > attended.
              > >
              > > It seems that the poor deacons just get their dialogue stolen right and
              > > left -- no respect! Granted, I understand that at some point deacons stole
              > > some of the canonarch's lines historically...
              > >
              > > Rdr. Edward (Brad) Anderson
              > >
              > >
              > > On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 12:20 PM, James Silver <frjsilver@> wrote:
              > >
              > > > **
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > This is the custom of several parishes here in the New Jersey deanery of
              > > > the
              > > > OCA.
              > > >
              > > > Monk James
              > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              > > >
              > > > From: ustav@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ustav@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              > > > subdeaconmichaelastley
              > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 11:30 AM
              > > > To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
              > > > Subject: [ustav] Great Entrance Commemoration
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Dear fathers, brothers, and sisters,
              > > >
              > > > In some texts of the Liturgy, I have seen indicated that, at the final
              > > > commemoration by the priest (of those present), the people likewise
              > > > commemorate him with, "May the Lord God remember thy priesthood in his
              > > > Kingdom... &c."
              > > >
              > > > I know that the deacon does this but had not seen it written down that the
              > > > people do likewise until recently, although I have witnessed the practice
              > > > in
              > > > one parish.
              > > >
              > > > Is this fairly widespread?
              > > >
              > > > Thank you.
              > > >
              > > > In Christ,
              > > > M
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
            • Jopi Harri
              I ve never encountered this in Europe. - Jopi Harri
              Message 6 of 19 , Aug 6, 2013
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                I've never encountered this in Europe.

                - Jopi Harri

                On 6.8.2013 21:20, James Silver wrote:
                > This is the custom of several parishes here in the New Jersey deanery of the
                > OCA.
                >
                > Monk James
                > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                >
                > From: ustav@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ustav@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                > subdeaconmichaelastley
                > Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 11:30 AM
                > To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [ustav] Great Entrance Commemoration
                >
                >
                > Dear fathers, brothers, and sisters,
                >
                > In some texts of the Liturgy, I have seen indicated that, at the final
                > commemoration by the priest (of those present), the people likewise
                > commemorate him with, "May the Lord God remember thy priesthood in his
                > Kingdom... &c."
                >
                > I know that the deacon does this but had not seen it written down that the
                > people do likewise until recently, although I have witnessed the practice in
                > one parish.
                >
                > Is this fairly widespread?
                >
                > Thank you.
                >
                > In Christ,
                > M
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                >
                > Post message: ustav@yahoogroups.com
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                >
                > More ustav information and service texts:
                > http://www.orthodox.net/ustav
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                >
                >
                >
              • Meg Lark
                On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 5:25 PM, subdeaconmichaelastley
                Message 7 of 19 , Aug 6, 2013
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                  On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 5:25 PM, subdeaconmichaelastley <
                  subdeaconmichael@...> wrote:

                  > **
                  >
                  >
                  > Thank you, both.
                  >
                  > That is helpful. The first time I heard it, it was both unexpected and in
                  > French so I didn't have time to decipher what I had just heard. It was only
                  > some months later when I saw it in text that I realised what it must have
                  > been.
                  >
                  > I wonder whether it happens much outside of Russian liturgical practice.
                  > What is the tradition of these NJ OCA parishes, Father James? My only
                  > experience of it has been in the Church Abroad.
                  >

                  For reasons I won't go into, I actually belong to *two* parishes, one ROCOR
                  and one GOA. The ROCOR parish has this practice, the Greek parish does
                  not, nor have I ever heard it in any other parish I have ever visited.

                  Maybe it became a practice in those parishes that had no deacon for a long
                  period of time? Certainly not anything I'm going to lose sleep over, but
                  since the question of other jurisdictions came up, I thought I'd answer out
                  of my own experience.

                  In Christ,
                  Margaret Lark


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Fr. Anthony Nelson
                  ... Thankfully, I have not run into it. It sounds like someone blessed with an infallible liturgical sense decided that what the Church had forgotten, he would
                  Message 8 of 19 , Aug 6, 2013
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                    >Another oddity I have encountered recently is the line "behold
                    >thy/your lips have touched..." (can't remember the exact words) that
                    >are normally said by the priest to the deacon after the clergy
                    >communion in the altar. The priest in this situation turns and
                    >proclaims these lines to the whole people after communion from the
                    >ambon. This may also be a common practice in some places, but I
                    >hadn't encountered it before in the dozens of parishes I have
                    >attended.

                    Thankfully, I have not run into it. It sounds like someone blessed
                    with an infallible liturgical sense decided that what the Church had
                    forgotten, he would provide!

                    Fr. Anthony


                    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
                    V. Rev. Protopriest Anthony Nelson
                    St. Benedict Russian Orthodox Church
                    Oklahoma City, OK USA 405-672-1441
                    http://stbenedict.orthodox.org

                    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
                    "Why leave the world if one wants
                    constantly to engage it?"

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • S. Miller
                    This was the custom in the ROCOR parish, St. John the Baptist, in D.C. in the late 60 s early 70 s when the parish almost totally émigré Russians as was the
                    Message 9 of 19 , Aug 6, 2013
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                      This was the custom in the ROCOR parish, St. John the Baptist, in D.C. in the late 60's early 70's when the parish almost totally émigré Russians as was the priest.

                      dn Sergius Miller

                      --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "subdeaconmichaelastley" <subdeaconmichael@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Dear fathers, brothers, and sisters,
                      >
                      > In some texts of the Liturgy, I have seen indicated that, at the final commemoration by the priest (of those present), the people likewise commemorate him with, "May the Lord God remember thy priesthood in his Kingdom... &c."
                      >
                      > I know that the deacon does this but had not seen it written down that the people do likewise until recently, although I have witnessed the practice in one parish.
                      >
                      > Is this fairly widespread?
                      >
                      > Thank you.
                      >
                      > In Christ,
                      > M
                      >
                    • David
                      Yes, this response is also the custom in our local OCA church but mainly by the readers (of which we now have 10+). What is also interesting is how the laity
                      Message 10 of 19 , Aug 6, 2013
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                        Yes, this response is also the custom in our local OCA church but mainly
                        by the readers (of which we now have 10+). What is also interesting is
                        how the laity reaches out to touch the hem of the celebrant as he walks
                        down the north wall and up the center aisle. I have not seen this custom
                        elsewhere. /dt




                        --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "James Silver" wrote:
                        >
                        > This is the custom of several parishes here in the New Jersey deanery
                        of the
                        > OCA.
                        >
                        > Monk James
                        > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                        >
                        > From: ustav@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ustav@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                        Of
                        > subdeaconmichaelastley
                        > Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 11:30 AM
                        > To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [ustav] Great Entrance Commemoration
                        >
                        >
                        > Dear fathers, brothers, and sisters,
                        >
                        > In some texts of the Liturgy, I have seen indicated that, at the final
                        > commemoration by the priest (of those present), the people likewise
                        > commemorate him with, "May the Lord God remember thy priesthood in his
                        > Kingdom... &c."
                        >
                        > I know that the deacon does this but had not seen it written down that
                        the
                        > people do likewise until recently, although I have witnessed the
                        practice in
                        > one parish.
                        >
                        > Is this fairly widespread?
                        >
                        > Thank you.
                        >
                        > In Christ,
                        > M
                        >
                      • Bradley Anderson
                        My thoughts exactly, Father. Of course, I learned a lot of my liturgical sensibilities from you! :-) On Aug 6, 2013 5:07 PM, Fr. Anthony Nelson
                        Message 11 of 19 , Aug 6, 2013
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                          My thoughts exactly, Father. Of course, I learned a lot of my liturgical
                          sensibilities from you! :-)
                          On Aug 6, 2013 5:07 PM, "Fr. Anthony Nelson" <fr.anthony@...>
                          wrote:

                          > **
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > >Another oddity I have encountered recently is the line "behold
                          > >thy/your lips have touched..." (can't remember the exact words) that
                          > >are normally said by the priest to the deacon after the clergy
                          > >communion in the altar. The priest in this situation turns and
                          > >proclaims these lines to the whole people after communion from the
                          > >ambon. This may also be a common practice in some places, but I
                          > >hadn't encountered it before in the dozens of parishes I have
                          > >attended.
                          >
                          > Thankfully, I have not run into it. It sounds like someone blessed
                          > with an infallible liturgical sense decided that what the Church had
                          > forgotten, he would provide!
                          >
                          > Fr. Anthony
                          >
                          > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
                          > V. Rev. Protopriest Anthony Nelson
                          > St. Benedict Russian Orthodox Church
                          > Oklahoma City, OK USA 405-672-1441
                          > http://stbenedict.orthodox.org
                          >
                          > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
                          > "Why leave the world if one wants
                          > constantly to engage it?"
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • S. Miller
                          Dear Brad, A 1955 decree of the Patriarchate says that when the bishop says, May the Lord God remember all of you..., the clergy and the people respond
                          Message 12 of 19 , Aug 6, 2013
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                            Dear Brad,

                            A 1955 decree of the Patriarchate says that when the bishop says, "May the Lord God remember all of you...," the "clergy and the people" respond with "May the Lord God...." I see no reason for not doing it at a presbyteral celebration mutatis mutandis.

                            dn Sergius Miller

                            --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Bradley Anderson <andersonwbradley@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > My thoughts exactly, Father. Of course, I learned a lot of my liturgical
                            > sensibilities from you! :-)
                            > On Aug 6, 2013 5:07 PM, "Fr. Anthony Nelson" <fr.anthony@...>
                            > wrote:
                            >
                            > > **
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > >Another oddity I have encountered recently is the line "behold
                            > > >thy/your lips have touched..." (can't remember the exact words) that
                            > > >are normally said by the priest to the deacon after the clergy
                            > > >communion in the altar. The priest in this situation turns and
                            > > >proclaims these lines to the whole people after communion from the
                            > > >ambon. This may also be a common practice in some places, but I
                            > > >hadn't encountered it before in the dozens of parishes I have
                            > > >attended.
                            > >
                            > > Thankfully, I have not run into it. It sounds like someone blessed
                            > > with an infallible liturgical sense decided that what the Church had
                            > > forgotten, he would provide!
                            > >
                            > > Fr. Anthony
                            > >
                            > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
                            > > V. Rev. Protopriest Anthony Nelson
                            > > St. Benedict Russian Orthodox Church
                            > > Oklahoma City, OK USA 405-672-1441
                            > > http://stbenedict.orthodox.org
                            > >
                            > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
                            > > "Why leave the world if one wants
                            > > constantly to engage it?"
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • Bradley Anderson
                            Dn. Sergius, The practice I was referring to and to which Fr. Anthony responded was a different one from the one to which you refer (and which started this
                            Message 13 of 19 , Aug 6, 2013
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                              Dn. Sergius,

                              The practice I was referring to and to which Fr. Anthony responded was a
                              different one from the one to which you refer (and which started this
                              thread). We have already established that the particular practice to which
                              you refer is not uncommon or irregular in the Russian tradition. In fact,
                              when I attended Fr. Anthony's ROCOR parish in the 1990's, it was the
                              practice of the congregation to respond, "May the Lord..." at that point in
                              the Liturgy.

                              Brad


                              On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:18 PM, S. Miller <srbmillerr@...> wrote:

                              > **
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Dear Brad,
                              >
                              > A 1955 decree of the Patriarchate says that when the bishop says, "May the
                              > Lord God remember all of you...," the "clergy and the people" respond with
                              > "May the Lord God...." I see no reason for not doing it at a presbyteral
                              > celebration mutatis mutandis.
                              >
                              > dn Sergius Miller
                              >
                              > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Bradley Anderson <andersonwbradley@...>
                              > wrote:
                              > >
                              > > My thoughts exactly, Father. Of course, I learned a lot of my liturgical
                              > > sensibilities from you! :-)
                              > > On Aug 6, 2013 5:07 PM, "Fr. Anthony Nelson" <fr.anthony@...>
                              > > wrote:
                              > >
                              > > > **
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > >Another oddity I have encountered recently is the line "behold
                              > > > >thy/your lips have touched..." (can't remember the exact words) that
                              > > > >are normally said by the priest to the deacon after the clergy
                              > > > >communion in the altar. The priest in this situation turns and
                              > > > >proclaims these lines to the whole people after communion from the
                              > > > >ambon. This may also be a common practice in some places, but I
                              > > > >hadn't encountered it before in the dozens of parishes I have
                              > > > >attended.
                              > > >
                              > > > Thankfully, I have not run into it. It sounds like someone blessed
                              > > > with an infallible liturgical sense decided that what the Church had
                              > > > forgotten, he would provide!
                              > > >
                              > > > Fr. Anthony
                              > > >
                              > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
                              > > > V. Rev. Protopriest Anthony Nelson
                              > > > St. Benedict Russian Orthodox Church
                              > > > Oklahoma City, OK USA 405-672-1441
                              > > > http://stbenedict.orthodox.org
                              > > >
                              > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
                              > > > "Why leave the world if one wants
                              > > > constantly to engage it?"
                              >
                              > > >
                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • S. Miller
                              I see, Brad, but this thread began w/the question about the commemoration. I ve not run across the This has crossed... dnS
                              Message 14 of 19 , Aug 6, 2013
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                                I see, Brad, but this thread began w/the question about the commemoration. I've not run across the "This has crossed..."

                                dnS



                                --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Bradley Anderson <andersonwbradley@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Dn. Sergius,
                                >
                                > The practice I was referring to and to which Fr. Anthony responded was a
                                > different one from the one to which you refer (and which started this
                                > thread). We have already established that the particular practice to which
                                > you refer is not uncommon or irregular in the Russian tradition. In fact,
                                > when I attended Fr. Anthony's ROCOR parish in the 1990's, it was the
                                > practice of the congregation to respond, "May the Lord..." at that point in
                                > the Liturgy.
                                >
                                > Brad
                                >
                                >
                                > On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:18 PM, S. Miller <srbmillerr@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > **
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Dear Brad,
                                > >
                                > > A 1955 decree of the Patriarchate says that when the bishop says, "May the
                                > > Lord God remember all of you...," the "clergy and the people" respond with
                                > > "May the Lord God...." I see no reason for not doing it at a presbyteral
                                > > celebration mutatis mutandis.
                                > >
                                > > dn Sergius Miller
                                > >
                                > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Bradley Anderson <andersonwbradley@>
                                > > wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > My thoughts exactly, Father. Of course, I learned a lot of my liturgical
                                > > > sensibilities from you! :-)
                                > > > On Aug 6, 2013 5:07 PM, "Fr. Anthony Nelson" <fr.anthony@>
                                > > > wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > > **
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > >Another oddity I have encountered recently is the line "behold
                                > > > > >thy/your lips have touched..." (can't remember the exact words) that
                                > > > > >are normally said by the priest to the deacon after the clergy
                                > > > > >communion in the altar. The priest in this situation turns and
                                > > > > >proclaims these lines to the whole people after communion from the
                                > > > > >ambon. This may also be a common practice in some places, but I
                                > > > > >hadn't encountered it before in the dozens of parishes I have
                                > > > > >attended.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Thankfully, I have not run into it. It sounds like someone blessed
                                > > > > with an infallible liturgical sense decided that what the Church had
                                > > > > forgotten, he would provide!
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Fr. Anthony
                                > > > >
                                > > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
                                > > > > V. Rev. Protopriest Anthony Nelson
                                > > > > St. Benedict Russian Orthodox Church
                                > > > > Oklahoma City, OK USA 405-672-1441
                                > > > > http://stbenedict.orthodox.org
                                > > > >
                                > > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
                                > > > > "Why leave the world if one wants
                                > > > > constantly to engage it?"
                                > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                              • Bradley Anderson
                                Yes, it may have been confusing for me to bring up a different example. I certainly wasn t meaning to equate the one that began the thread (which I am well
                                Message 15 of 19 , Aug 6, 2013
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                                  Yes, it may have been confusing for me to bring up a different example. I
                                  certainly wasn't meaning to equate the one that began the thread (which I
                                  am well aware has a clear pedigree in the Russian tradition) with the one I
                                  then brought up, which I had never encountered before in any tradition.

                                  Brad


                                  On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:37 PM, S. Miller <srbmillerr@...> wrote:

                                  > **
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I see, Brad, but this thread began w/the question about the commemoration.
                                  > I've not run across the "This has crossed..."
                                  >
                                  > dnS
                                  >
                                  > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Bradley Anderson <andersonwbradley@...>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Dn. Sergius,
                                  > >
                                  > > The practice I was referring to and to which Fr. Anthony responded was a
                                  > > different one from the one to which you refer (and which started this
                                  > > thread). We have already established that the particular practice to
                                  > which
                                  > > you refer is not uncommon or irregular in the Russian tradition. In fact,
                                  > > when I attended Fr. Anthony's ROCOR parish in the 1990's, it was the
                                  > > practice of the congregation to respond, "May the Lord..." at that point
                                  > in
                                  > > the Liturgy.
                                  > >
                                  > > Brad
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:18 PM, S. Miller <srbmillerr@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > > **
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Dear Brad,
                                  > > >
                                  > > > A 1955 decree of the Patriarchate says that when the bishop says, "May
                                  > the
                                  > > > Lord God remember all of you...," the "clergy and the people" respond
                                  > with
                                  > > > "May the Lord God...." I see no reason for not doing it at a
                                  > presbyteral
                                  > > > celebration mutatis mutandis.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > dn Sergius Miller
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Bradley Anderson <andersonwbradley@>
                                  > > > wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > My thoughts exactly, Father. Of course, I learned a lot of my
                                  > liturgical
                                  > > > > sensibilities from you! :-)
                                  > > > > On Aug 6, 2013 5:07 PM, "Fr. Anthony Nelson" <fr.anthony@>
                                  > > > > wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > > **
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >Another oddity I have encountered recently is the line "behold
                                  > > > > > >thy/your lips have touched..." (can't remember the exact words)
                                  > that
                                  > > > > > >are normally said by the priest to the deacon after the clergy
                                  > > > > > >communion in the altar. The priest in this situation turns and
                                  > > > > > >proclaims these lines to the whole people after communion from the
                                  > > > > > >ambon. This may also be a common practice in some places, but I
                                  > > > > > >hadn't encountered it before in the dozens of parishes I have
                                  > > > > > >attended.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Thankfully, I have not run into it. It sounds like someone blessed
                                  > > > > > with an infallible liturgical sense decided that what the Church
                                  > had
                                  > > > > > forgotten, he would provide!
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Fr. Anthony
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
                                  > > > > > V. Rev. Protopriest Anthony Nelson
                                  > > > > > St. Benedict Russian Orthodox Church
                                  > > > > > Oklahoma City, OK USA 405-672-1441
                                  > > > > > http://stbenedict.orthodox.org
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
                                  > > > > > "Why leave the world if one wants
                                  > > > > > constantly to engage it?"
                                  > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • betsytumbas
                                  I am curious to know what the practice is in Serbian Orthodox churches. My experience is that this is not done by the people. Popadija Betsy
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Aug 6, 2013
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                                    I am curious to know what the practice is in Serbian Orthodox churches. My experience is that this is not done by the people.

                                    Popadija Betsy


                                    --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "S. Miller" <srbmillerr@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Dear Brad,
                                    >
                                    > A 1955 decree of the Patriarchate says that when the bishop says, "May the Lord God remember all of you...," the "clergy and the people" respond with "May the Lord God...." I see no reason for not doing it at a presbyteral celebration mutatis mutandis.
                                  • Hieromonk Innokenty
                                    That is actually a practice that you so often in greek and antiochian parishes. i did not see this in parishes that follow the russian tradition. ... [Non-text
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Aug 7, 2013
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                                      That is actually a practice that you so often in greek and antiochian parishes.
                                      i did not see this in parishes that follow the russian tradition.

                                      On Aug 6, 2013, at 9:33 PM, David <dptkach@...> wrote:

                                      > What is also interesting is
                                      > how the laity reaches out to touch the hem of the celebrant as he walks
                                      > down the north wall and up the center aisle. I have not seen this custom
                                      > elsewhere. /dt



                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Anna Voellmecke
                                      ... Well, we don t have aisles, and the celebrants do not leave the amvon in Russian practice. Anna V. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Aug 7, 2013
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                                        At 07:30 AM 8/7/2013, you wrote:
                                        >That is actually a practice that you so often in greek and
                                        >antiochian parishes.
                                        >i did not see this in parishes that follow the russian tradition.
                                        >
                                        >On Aug 6, 2013, at 9:33 PM, David <dptkach@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > What is also interesting is
                                        > > how the laity reaches out to touch the hem of the celebrant as he walks
                                        > > down the north wall and up the center aisle. I have not seen this custom
                                        > > elsewhere. /dt

                                        Well, we don't have aisles, and the celebrants do not leave the amvon
                                        in Russian practice.

                                        Anna V.

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Alex Primak
                                        Hasn t anyone ever read their Zakon Bozhiy ? My 4th ed. copy has it on p 654. Bishop Alexander s website has an english translation. Follow the link and then
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Aug 10, 2013
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                                          Hasn't anyone ever read their "Zakon Bozhiy"? My 4th ed. copy has it on p 654.
                                          Bishop Alexander's website has an english translation. Follow the link and then hit CTRL-f and paste "The Preparation of the Faitful"; it'll be on the paragraph above that heading.
                                          http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/law_of_god_slobodskoy_3.htm#_Toc36163891

                                          Alex


                                          To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
                                          From: srbmillerr@...
                                          Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 23:24:51 +0000
                                          Subject: [ustav] Re: Great Entrance Commemoration


























                                          This was the custom in the ROCOR parish, St. John the Baptist, in D.C. in the late 60's early 70's when the parish almost totally �migr� Russians as was the priest.



                                          dn Sergius Miller



                                          --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "subdeaconmichaelastley" <subdeaconmichael@...> wrote:

                                          >

                                          > Dear fathers, brothers, and sisters,

                                          >

                                          > In some texts of the Liturgy, I have seen indicated that, at the final commemoration by the priest (of those present), the people likewise commemorate him with, "May the Lord God remember thy priesthood in his Kingdom... &c."

                                          >

                                          > I know that the deacon does this but had not seen it written down that the people do likewise until recently, although I have witnessed the practice in one parish.

                                          >

                                          > Is this fairly widespread?

                                          >

                                          > Thank you.

                                          >

                                          > In Christ,

                                          > M

                                          >



















                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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