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Matins melodies

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  • silouanthompson
    I am beginning to rework how we serve Sunday morning Matins, which I expect we will eventually begin serving as part of Saturday s vigil service as is usual in
    Message 1 of 15 , Jul 21, 2013
      I am beginning to rework how we serve Sunday morning Matins, which I expect we will eventually begin serving as part of Saturday's vigil service as is usual in our diocese. I will probably post a number of related questions over the coming weeks.

      Just now, I'm curious about the sessional hymns after Psalter readings and elsewhere, the hypakoe, antiphons, and exapostilaria. Are these usually sung according to a stichiron melody? A troparion melody? Or are they read (i.e. in a "church voice")?

      My priest's response to questions of this sort is "Let me know what you find out." Practices here in ROCOR's Western American Diocese will be most immediately useful to us, but I'm interested in practices from all over.

      Thank you in advance!

      In Christ,
      Deacon Silouan Thompson
    • Philip Sokolov
      ... Read, or sung with Stikheron melodies. ... Same. ... From my youth (Tone 4) has several well-known settings. We sing Valaam Chant. I use some nice
      Message 2 of 15 , Jul 21, 2013
        Deacon Silouan Thompson wrote:

        > Just now, I'm curious about the sessional hymns after Psalter readings
        > and elsewhere,

        Read, or sung with Stikheron melodies.

        > the hypakoe

        Same.

        > antiphons,

        "From my youth" (Tone 4) has several well-known settings. We sing Valaam
        Chant.

        I use some nice Galician settings for all the other tones, but I don't
        think they're well-known. Unfortunately, I think they're often omitted.

        > and exapostilaria.

        Read or sung with Troparion Tone 3. Special melodies exist for many feasts.

        In Christ,
        Philip
      • Bradley Anderson
        Sessional hymns, hypakoe, and exapostilaria are all commonly read (i.e. chanted recto tono) in the Russian tradition. Based on the names of the special
        Message 3 of 15 , Jul 21, 2013
          Sessional hymns, hypakoe, and exapostilaria are all commonly read (i.e.
          chanted recto tono) in the Russian tradition.

          Based on the names of the special melodies that are appointed in the
          service books, it seeems clear that sessional hymns are meant to be sung to
          troparion melodies. Troparion special melodies are generally only
          preserved in the East Slav traditions, however. I was taught at some point
          that the hypakoe is to be sung to a troparion melody as well if it is sung,
          but I�m not sure that there is much internal evidence to support that idea
          within the Russian chant tradition.

          As to sticheron melodies, again, based on the special melodies appointed in
          the service books, the Praises are clearly intended to be sung to sticheron
          melodies. The only settings of the Hymns of Ascents/Antiphons that I have
          seen in ROCOR materials are also sticheron melodies (i.e. the Clader books).

          The St. Vlad�s service books for Holy Week tend to set sessional hymns to
          sticheron melodies, but I don�t know if this is a peculiarity of the
          Crestwood books or if it reflects a common Russian practice. Others could
          be more enlightening on that point.

          Exapostilaria, when a tone is specified, are always appointed to either
          Tone 2 or 3. There are some special exapostilarion melodies specified in
          the service books that are fairly easily accessible in the Russian
          tradition, and if none is specified, �Hearken, ye women...� is often used
          as a generic melody if it is sung.

          Reader Edward (Brad) Anderson


          On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 10:21 PM, Philip Sokolov <phils@...> wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          > Deacon Silouan Thompson wrote:
          >
          > > Just now, I'm curious about the sessional hymns after Psalter readings
          > > and elsewhere,
          >
          > Read, or sung with Stikheron melodies.
          >
          > > the hypakoe
          >
          > Same.
          >
          > > antiphons,
          >
          > "From my youth" (Tone 4) has several well-known settings. We sing Valaam
          > Chant.
          >
          > I use some nice Galician settings for all the other tones, but I don't
          > think they're well-known. Unfortunately, I think they're often omitted.
          >
          > > and exapostilaria.
          >
          > Read or sung with Troparion Tone 3. Special melodies exist for many feasts.
          >
          > In Christ,
          > Philip
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Bradley Anderson
          Sessional hymns, hypakoe, and exapostilaria are all commonly read (i.e. chanted recto tono) in the Russian tradition. Based on the names of the special
          Message 4 of 15 , Jul 21, 2013
            Sessional hymns, hypakoe, and exapostilaria are all commonly read (i.e.
            chanted recto tono) in the Russian tradition.

            Based on the names of the special melodies that are appointed in the
            service books, it seeems clear that sessional hymns are meant to be sung to
            troparion melodies, so that is what I have always used. I have been taught
            that the hypakoe is to be sung to a troparion melody as well if it is sung,
            but that may be incorrect. Again, based on special melodies, the Praises
            are clearly intended to be sung to sticheron melodies, and .

            The St. Vlad�s service books for Holy Week tend to set sessional hymns to
            sticheron melodies, but I don�t know if this is a peculiarity of those
            books or if it reflects a common Russian practice.

            Exapostilaria, when a tone is specified, are always appointed to either
            Tone 2 or 3. There are some special exapostilarion melodies specified in
            the service books that are fairly easily accessible in the Russian
            tradition, and if none is specified, �Hearken, ye women...� can be used as
            a generic melody when it is sung.

            Reader Edward (Brad) Anderson


            On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 10:21 PM, Philip Sokolov <phils@...> wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            > Deacon Silouan Thompson wrote:
            >
            > > Just now, I'm curious about the sessional hymns after Psalter readings
            > > and elsewhere,
            >
            > Read, or sung with Stikheron melodies.
            >
            > > the hypakoe
            >
            > Same.
            >
            > > antiphons,
            >
            > "From my youth" (Tone 4) has several well-known settings. We sing Valaam
            > Chant.
            >
            > I use some nice Galician settings for all the other tones, but I don't
            > think they're well-known. Unfortunately, I think they're often omitted.
            >
            > > and exapostilaria.
            >
            > Read or sung with Troparion Tone 3. Special melodies exist for many feasts.
            >
            > In Christ,
            > Philip
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • David Lucs
            Exapostilaria originally had their own collection of special melodies and the hymn stood out as the high point of matins (even more important than the Kanon or
            Message 5 of 15 , Jul 22, 2013
              Exapostilaria originally had their own collection of special melodies and the hymn stood out as the
              high point of matins (even more important than the Kanon or Great Doxology). This is still apparent
              by the prominence of the exapostilarion during matins of Holy Week.

              Based on my research these settings have been lost in most traditions - especially the Russian,
              where as Brad and Philip mention, they are now either read or sung in the troparion tone 3 melody.
              While some melodies still exist or have been recently harmonized, there are specific automelons for
              major feasts with lesser feasts and saints assigned prosomia.

              As English speakers and singers it's totally reasonable (in my opinion) to compose new special
              melodies since none exist, thereby enhancing the text and giving exapostilaria a more prominent
              chant melody.
              -David


              -----Original Message-----
              From: ustav@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ustav@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bradley Anderson
              Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 1:39 AM
              To: ustav ustav
              Subject: Re: [ustav] Matins melodies

              Sessional hymns, hypakoe, and exapostilaria are all commonly read (i.e.
              chanted recto tono) in the Russian tradition.

              Based on the names of the special melodies that are appointed in the service books, it seeems clear
              that sessional hymns are meant to be sung to troparion melodies, so that is what I have always used.
              I have been taught that the hypakoe is to be sung to a troparion melody as well if it is sung, but
              that may be incorrect. Again, based on special melodies, the Praises are clearly intended to be
              sung to sticheron melodies, and .

              The St. Vlad's service books for Holy Week tend to set sessional hymns to sticheron melodies, but I
              don't know if this is a peculiarity of those books or if it reflects a common Russian practice.

              Exapostilaria, when a tone is specified, are always appointed to either Tone 2 or 3. There are some
              special exapostilarion melodies specified in the service books that are fairly easily accessible in
              the Russian tradition, and if none is specified, "Hearken, ye women..." can be used as a generic
              melody when it is sung.

              Reader Edward (Brad) Anderson


              On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 10:21 PM, Philip Sokolov <phils@...> wrote:

              > **
              >
              >
              > Deacon Silouan Thompson wrote:
              >
              > > Just now, I'm curious about the sessional hymns after Psalter
              > > readings and elsewhere,
              >
              > Read, or sung with Stikheron melodies.
              >
              > > the hypakoe
              >
              > Same.
              >
              > > antiphons,
              >
              > "From my youth" (Tone 4) has several well-known settings. We sing
              > Valaam Chant.
              >
              > I use some nice Galician settings for all the other tones, but I don't
              > think they're well-known. Unfortunately, I think they're often omitted.
              >
              > > and exapostilaria.
              >
              > Read or sung with Troparion Tone 3. Special melodies exist for many feasts.
              >
              > In Christ,
              > Philip
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              ------------------------------------


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            • stephen_r1937
              No, they are not sung to melodies for stichera; they are regarded as troparia, and the usual Russian practice is to use the troparion melodies for the tone of
              Message 6 of 15 , Jul 22, 2013
                No, they are not sung to melodies for stichera; they are regarded as troparia, and the usual Russian practice is to use the troparion melodies for the tone of the week, or of the tone appointed for specific sessional hymns.

                However, they are predominantly podobny. In Russian usage, you might hear podobny for stichera in a monastery, but hardly anyone knows that podobny for troparia exist. However, where the chant tradition of SW has not been suppressed or allowed to fall into desuetude, a number of podobny for sessionals are still in use, and more can be recovered from old manuscripts. Byzantine chant has a rich collection of such melodies, but they can be sung only to the Greek texts or to metered translations.

                Stephen

                --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "silouanthompson" <himself@...> wrote:
                >
                > I am beginning to rework how we serve Sunday morning Matins, which I expect we will eventually begin serving as part of Saturday's vigil service as is usual in our diocese. I will probably post a number of related questions over the coming weeks.
                >
                > Just now, I'm curious about the sessional hymns after Psalter readings and elsewhere, the hypakoe, antiphons, and exapostilaria. Are these usually sung according to a stichiron melody? A troparion melody? Or are they read (i.e. in a "church voice")?
                >
                > My priest's response to questions of this sort is "Let me know what you find out." Practices here in ROCOR's Western American Diocese will be most immediately useful to us, but I'm interested in practices from all over.
                >
                > Thank you in advance!
                >
                > In Christ,
                > Deacon Silouan Thompson
                >
              • Bradley Anderson
                Stephen, you are only talking about sessional hymns, correct? ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 15 , Jul 22, 2013
                  Stephen, you are only talking about sessional hymns, correct?
                  On Jul 22, 2013 1:16 PM, "stephen_r1937" <stephen_r1937@...> wrote:

                  > **
                  >
                  >
                  > No, they are not sung to melodies for stichera; they are regarded as
                  > troparia, and the usual Russian practice is to use the troparion melodies
                  > for the tone of the week, or of the tone appointed for specific sessional
                  > hymns.
                  >
                  > However, they are predominantly podobny. In Russian usage, you might hear
                  > podobny for stichera in a monastery, but hardly anyone knows that podobny
                  > for troparia exist. However, where the chant tradition of SW has not been
                  > suppressed or allowed to fall into desuetude, a number of podobny for
                  > sessionals are still in use, and more can be recovered from old
                  > manuscripts. Byzantine chant has a rich collection of such melodies, but
                  > they can be sung only to the Greek texts or to metered translations.
                  >
                  > Stephen
                  >
                  > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "silouanthompson" <himself@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I am beginning to rework how we serve Sunday morning Matins, which I
                  > expect we will eventually begin serving as part of Saturday's vigil service
                  > as is usual in our diocese. I will probably post a number of related
                  > questions over the coming weeks.
                  > >
                  > > Just now, I'm curious about the sessional hymns after Psalter readings
                  > and elsewhere, the hypakoe, antiphons, and exapostilaria. Are these usually
                  > sung according to a stichiron melody? A troparion melody? Or are they read
                  > (i.e. in a "church voice")?
                  > >
                  > > My priest's response to questions of this sort is "Let me know what you
                  > find out." Practices here in ROCOR's Western American Diocese will be most
                  > immediately useful to us, but I'm interested in practices from all over.
                  > >
                  > > Thank you in advance!
                  > >
                  > > In Christ,
                  > > Deacon Silouan Thompson
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Meg Lark
                  Interesting responses to this thread, and all, AFAIK, accurate, according to my very limited understanding. But I was thinking, Father Deacon - is there any
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jul 22, 2013
                    Interesting responses to this thread, and all, AFAIK, accurate, according
                    to my very limited understanding. But I was thinking, Father Deacon - is
                    there any chance you could come east next year for the Summer School of
                    Liturgical Music at Jordanville? I think you would get a very great deal
                    out of it.

                    In Christ,
                    Margaret Lark

                    On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 9:14 PM, silouanthompson
                    <himself@...>wrote:

                    > **
                    >
                    >
                    > I am beginning to rework how we serve Sunday morning Matins, which I
                    > expect we will eventually begin serving as part of Saturday's vigil service
                    > as is usual in our diocese. I will probably post a number of related
                    > questions over the coming weeks.
                    >
                    > Just now, I'm curious about the sessional hymns after Psalter readings and
                    > elsewhere, the hypakoe, antiphons, and exapostilaria. Are these usually
                    > sung according to a stichiron melody? A troparion melody? Or are they read
                    > (i.e. in a "church voice")?
                    >
                    > My priest's response to questions of this sort is "Let me know what you
                    > find out." Practices here in ROCOR's Western American Diocese will be most
                    > immediately useful to us, but I'm interested in practices from all over.
                    >
                    > Thank you in advance!
                    >
                    > In Christ,
                    > Deacon Silouan Thompson
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Jopi Harri
                    I suppose that the *Russian* practice has been to read sessional hymns in Orthros since 1551, when Stoglav decreed to do so. - Jopi Harri
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jul 22, 2013
                      I suppose that the *Russian* practice has been to read sessional
                      hymns in Orthros since 1551, when Stoglav decreed to do so.

                      - Jopi Harri


                      On 22.7.2013 22:38, Bradley Anderson wrote:
                      > Stephen, you are only talking about sessional hymns, correct?
                      > On Jul 22, 2013 1:16 PM, "stephen_r1937" <stephen_r1937@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >> **
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> No, they are not sung to melodies for stichera; they are regarded as
                      >> troparia, and the usual Russian practice is to use the troparion melodies
                      >> for the tone of the week, or of the tone appointed for specific sessional
                      >> hymns.
                      >>
                      >> However, they are predominantly podobny. In Russian usage, you might hear
                      >> podobny for stichera in a monastery, but hardly anyone knows that podobny
                      >> for troparia exist. However, where the chant tradition of SW has not been
                      >> suppressed or allowed to fall into desuetude, a number of podobny for
                      >> sessionals are still in use, and more can be recovered from old
                      >> manuscripts. Byzantine chant has a rich collection of such melodies, but
                      >> they can be sung only to the Greek texts or to metered translations.
                      >>
                      >> Stephen
                      >>
                      >> --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "silouanthompson" <himself@...> wrote:
                      >>> I am beginning to rework how we serve Sunday morning Matins, which I
                      >> expect we will eventually begin serving as part of Saturday's vigil service
                      >> as is usual in our diocese. I will probably post a number of related
                      >> questions over the coming weeks.
                      >>> Just now, I'm curious about the sessional hymns after Psalter readings
                      >> and elsewhere, the hypakoe, antiphons, and exapostilaria. Are these usually
                      >> sung according to a stichiron melody? A troparion melody? Or are they read
                      >> (i.e. in a "church voice")?
                      >>> My priest's response to questions of this sort is "Let me know what you
                      >> find out." Practices here in ROCOR's Western American Diocese will be most
                      >> immediately useful to us, but I'm interested in practices from all over.
                      >>> Thank you in advance!
                      >>>
                      >>> In Christ,
                      >>> Deacon Silouan Thompson
                      >>>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      >
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                      >
                      >
                    • stephen_r1937
                      About fifteen automela for exaposteilaria are mentioned in the liturgical books. I don t know of any current tradition that actually has anything like that
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jul 22, 2013
                        About fifteen automela for exaposteilaria are mentioned in the liturgical books. I don't know of any current tradition that actually has anything like that number. The exaposteilaria are unusual in that they are not firmly assigned to specific tones of the Octoechos. This is problematic in Byzantine chant, where some tonal assignment is a necessity for knowing what intervals to use; so in practice they are all assigned to Tone 2 or Tone 3. Tone 2 has 2 melodies, pretty similar to one another but differing rhythmically (one is "Ionic"); tone 3 has one melody.

                        Russian usage, as already stated by several contributors to this thread, is satisfied to sing them all to the troparion melody of Tone 3 or even just to read them. The Znamenny chant as preserved in the Old Rite has a single melody for all exaposteilaria, in "Tone zero." However, in SW Rus' "The Dayspring from on high has visited us" has a melody that is unmistakably in Tone 1 of the Znamenny chant, and does not know the Old Rite melody. In addition it has melodies for several other exaposteilarion podobny, but by no means for all fifteen.

                        It does look like an opportunity for composers. But some of the existing melodies are serviceable.

                        The Byz. chant melodies are more flexible than other podobny, and could be fairly easily adapted to English; in addition, they are quite lovely.

                        Some Byzantine-style melodies preserved in Bulgaria were published by Dinev, and adapted for Russian choirs by Kustovsky; they appear as "Bolgarsky Rospev" in his _Eksapostilarii i svetil'ny_ (Moscow: Pravoslavnye Moskovskie regentskie kursy, 2000), a collection of old an more recently composed melodies that I am pleased to recommend.

                        Stephen



                        --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "David Lucs" <dlucs@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Exapostilaria originally had their own collection of special melodies and the hymn stood out as the
                        > high point of matins (even more important than the Kanon or Great Doxology). This is still apparent
                        > by the prominence of the exapostilarion during matins of Holy Week.
                        >
                        > Based on my research these settings have been lost in most traditions - especially the Russian,
                        > where as Brad and Philip mention, they are now either read or sung in the troparion tone 3 melody.
                        > While some melodies still exist or have been recently harmonized, there are specific automelons for
                        > major feasts with lesser feasts and saints assigned prosomia.
                        >
                        > As English speakers and singers it's totally reasonable (in my opinion) to compose new special
                        > melodies since none exist, thereby enhancing the text and giving exapostilaria a more prominent
                        > chant melody.
                        > -David
                        >
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: ustav@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ustav@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bradley Anderson
                        > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 1:39 AM
                        > To: ustav ustav
                        > Subject: Re: [ustav] Matins melodies
                        >
                        > Sessional hymns, hypakoe, and exapostilaria are all commonly read (i.e.
                        > chanted recto tono) in the Russian tradition.
                        >
                        > Based on the names of the special melodies that are appointed in the service books, it seeems clear
                        > that sessional hymns are meant to be sung to troparion melodies, so that is what I have always used.
                        > I have been taught that the hypakoe is to be sung to a troparion melody as well if it is sung, but
                        > that may be incorrect. Again, based on special melodies, the Praises are clearly intended to be
                        > sung to sticheron melodies, and .
                        >
                        > The St. Vlad's service books for Holy Week tend to set sessional hymns to sticheron melodies, but I
                        > don't know if this is a peculiarity of those books or if it reflects a common Russian practice.
                        >
                        > Exapostilaria, when a tone is specified, are always appointed to either Tone 2 or 3. There are some
                        > special exapostilarion melodies specified in the service books that are fairly easily accessible in
                        > the Russian tradition, and if none is specified, "Hearken, ye women..." can be used as a generic
                        > melody when it is sung.
                        >
                        > Reader Edward (Brad) Anderson
                        >
                        >
                        > On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 10:21 PM, Philip Sokolov <phils@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > **
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Deacon Silouan Thompson wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > Just now, I'm curious about the sessional hymns after Psalter
                        > > > readings and elsewhere,
                        > >
                        > > Read, or sung with Stikheron melodies.
                        > >
                        > > > the hypakoe
                        > >
                        > > Same.
                        > >
                        > > > antiphons,
                        > >
                        > > "From my youth" (Tone 4) has several well-known settings. We sing
                        > > Valaam Chant.
                        > >
                        > > I use some nice Galician settings for all the other tones, but I don't
                        > > think they're well-known. Unfortunately, I think they're often omitted.
                        > >
                        > > > and exapostilaria.
                        > >
                        > > Read or sung with Troparion Tone 3. Special melodies exist for many feasts.
                        > >
                        > > In Christ,
                        > > Philip
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        >
                        > Post message: ustav@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subscribe: ustav-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                        > to archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ustav
                        >
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                        > http://www.orthodox.net/services
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                        >
                      • stephen_r1937
                        Yes, that s right, Bradley; I should have been clearer. I have just posted another response, about the exaposteilaria. The Anabathmoe (Stepenna) are provided
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jul 22, 2013
                          Yes, that's right, Bradley; I should have been clearer. I have just posted another response, about the exaposteilaria.

                          The Anabathmoe (Stepenna) are provided with melodies in Zamennyj Chant, should anyone want to sing them. These are available in Sputnik Psalomshchika and in the Holy Synod collections, although it would probably be worth the effort to check these against neumatic manuscripts.

                          Hypakoae are usually read (also by the Greeks), but there is no particular reason not to sing them to troparion melodies. At least one ms Irmologion from SW Rus' provides simple melodies for them.

                          --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Bradley Anderson <andersonwbradley@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Stephen, you are only talking about sessional hymns, correct?
                          > On Jul 22, 2013 1:16 PM, "stephen_r1937" <stephen_r1937@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > **
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > No, they are not sung to melodies for stichera; they are regarded as
                          > > troparia, and the usual Russian practice is to use the troparion melodies
                          > > for the tone of the week, or of the tone appointed for specific sessional
                          > > hymns.
                          > >
                          > > However, they are predominantly podobny. In Russian usage, you might hear
                          > > podobny for stichera in a monastery, but hardly anyone knows that podobny
                          > > for troparia exist. However, where the chant tradition of SW has not been
                          > > suppressed or allowed to fall into desuetude, a number of podobny for
                          > > sessionals are still in use, and more can be recovered from old
                          > > manuscripts. Byzantine chant has a rich collection of such melodies, but
                          > > they can be sung only to the Greek texts or to metered translations.
                          > >
                          > > Stephen
                          > >
                          > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "silouanthompson" <himself@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > I am beginning to rework how we serve Sunday morning Matins, which I
                          > > expect we will eventually begin serving as part of Saturday's vigil service
                          > > as is usual in our diocese. I will probably post a number of related
                          > > questions over the coming weeks.
                          > > >
                          > > > Just now, I'm curious about the sessional hymns after Psalter readings
                          > > and elsewhere, the hypakoe, antiphons, and exapostilaria. Are these usually
                          > > sung according to a stichiron melody? A troparion melody? Or are they read
                          > > (i.e. in a "church voice")?
                          > > >
                          > > > My priest's response to questions of this sort is "Let me know what you
                          > > find out." Practices here in ROCOR's Western American Diocese will be most
                          > > immediately useful to us, but I'm interested in practices from all over.
                          > > >
                          > > > Thank you in advance!
                          > > >
                          > > > In Christ,
                          > > > Deacon Silouan Thompson
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • Philip Sokolov
                          ... I have checked the Synodal Collection (Tserkovno-Pevcheski Sbornik, 1904) Volume III, Part II, Holy Week. It has all the Sedalny for Holy Friday Matins,
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jul 22, 2013
                            Bradley Anderson wrote:

                            > The St. Vlad’s service books for Holy Week tend to set sessional hymns to
                            > sticheron melodies, but I don’t know if this is a peculiarity of the
                            > Crestwood books or if it reflects a common Russian practice. Others could
                            > be more enlightening on that point.

                            I have checked the Synodal Collection (Tserkovno-Pevcheski Sbornik,
                            1904) Volume III, Part II, Holy Week. It has all the Sedalny for Holy
                            Friday Matins, and they are all set to stikheron melodies.

                            --Philip
                          • stephen_r1937
                            The sedalny for this day are not podobny, or at least the current liturgical books do not indicate that they are. For the preceding days of Holy Week, all but
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jul 23, 2013
                              The sedalny for this day are not podobny, or at least the current liturgical books do not indicate that they are. For the preceding days of Holy Week, all but a few are designated as podobny in the Menaeon, and the melodies are common ones for sedalny, and are classified as troparia. What does the Synodal Sbornik do with these?

                              Stephen

                              --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Philip Sokolov <phils@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Bradley Anderson wrote:
                              >
                              > > The St. Vlad's service books for Holy Week tend to set sessional hymns to
                              > > sticheron melodies, but I don't know if this is a peculiarity of the
                              > > Crestwood books or if it reflects a common Russian practice. Others could
                              > > be more enlightening on that point.
                              >
                              > I have checked the Synodal Collection (Tserkovno-Pevcheski Sbornik,
                              > 1904) Volume III, Part II, Holy Week. It has all the Sedalny for Holy
                              > Friday Matins, and they are all set to stikheron melodies.
                              >
                              > --Philip
                              >
                            • Philip Sokolov
                              ... The Sedalny for Holy Saturday Matins in Tone 1, the group before the Canon which starts, Joseph begged Thy holy body from Pilate... , are there, set to a
                              Message 14 of 15 , Aug 4 9:49 PM
                                Stephen R. wrote:

                                > > I have checked the Synodal Collection (Tserkovno-Pevcheski Sbornik,
                                > > 1904) Volume III, Part II, Holy Week. It has all the Sedalny for Holy
                                > > Friday Matins, and they are all set to stikheron melodies.
                                >
                                > The sedalny for this day are not podobny, or at least the current
                                > liturgical books do not indicate that they are. For the preceding days
                                > of Holy Week, all but a few are designated as podobny in the Menaeon,
                                > and the melodies are common ones for sedalny, and are classified as
                                > troparia. What does the Synodal Sbornik do with these?

                                The Sedalny for Holy Saturday Matins in Tone 1, the group before the
                                Canon which starts, "Joseph begged Thy holy body from Pilate...", are
                                there, set to a special melody ("po nashevu podobna"), harmonized, of
                                course.

                                None of the other sedalny are set that I can find, including the other
                                Tone 1 Sedalen at Holy Saturday after Ode 3 ("The soldiers keeping watch
                                over Thy tomb, O Savior...").

                                I think Jopi is right, that they are assumed to be read.

                                --Philip
                              • stephen_r1937
                                Thanks for the information!
                                Message 15 of 15 , Aug 6 10:25 AM
                                  Thanks for the information!

                                  --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Philip Sokolov <phils@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Stephen R. wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > > I have checked the Synodal Collection (Tserkovno-Pevcheski Sbornik,
                                  > > > 1904) Volume III, Part II, Holy Week. It has all the Sedalny for Holy
                                  > > > Friday Matins, and they are all set to stikheron melodies.
                                  > >
                                  > > The sedalny for this day are not podobny, or at least the current
                                  > > liturgical books do not indicate that they are. For the preceding days
                                  > > of Holy Week, all but a few are designated as podobny in the Menaeon,
                                  > > and the melodies are common ones for sedalny, and are classified as
                                  > > troparia. What does the Synodal Sbornik do with these?
                                  >
                                  > The Sedalny for Holy Saturday Matins in Tone 1, the group before the
                                  > Canon which starts, "Joseph begged Thy holy body from Pilate...", are
                                  > there, set to a special melody ("po nashevu podobna"), harmonized, of
                                  > course.
                                  >
                                  > None of the other sedalny are set that I can find, including the other
                                  > Tone 1 Sedalen at Holy Saturday after Ode 3 ("The soldiers keeping watch
                                  > over Thy tomb, O Savior...").
                                  >
                                  > I think Jopi is right, that they are assumed to be read.
                                  >
                                  > --Philip
                                  >
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