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Re: [ustav] Lazarus (Moore) Odes

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  • Dale Dickerson
    I hope you publish all his translation efforts.   I think it is because I used the Authorized Version with the 1662 Book of Common Prayer  Morning and
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 1, 2013
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      I hope you publish all his translation efforts.
       
      I think it is because I used the Authorized Version with the 1662 Book of Common Prayer  Morning and Evening Prayer for years. (That was before I became Orthodox.) Personally, I am not comfortable hearing current English converted to Elizabethan English on the fly during liturgy. Most times the person  is adding a few thee and thine, etc. However wording and word meanings can be different. It hits my ears like a fingernail on a blackboard. Given a choice, I want hear Greek or Church Slavonic and not pseudo Elizabethan English done on the fly. I avoid worshiping at a few churches because the pseudo English used is unsettling to my ears. 
       
      Dale Dickerson

        
      --- On Tue, 1/1/13, Macrina Lewis <macrina440@...> wrote:


      From: Macrina Lewis <macrina440@...>
      Subject: Re: [ustav] Lazarus (Moore) Odes
      To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, January 1, 2013, 8:39 PM



       



      Thanks for the tip. I may look into that. You guys are all such a great resource!
      I guess it surprises me quite a bit that there are readers from archaic-language parishes that would use a modern translation of the Psalter liturgically at all. I would not be comfortable "translating" from a modern version in church at all myself. So in our parish, even though I'm publishing this, we will continue to use HTM for everything. At any rate, we will discuss again including the Odes.

      Does anyone know of a modern translation by someone Orthodox of the Odes? I'd feel much better maintaining that kind of consistency in our publication.

      Certainly the best option would be if our UK compadres will include the odes in their archaic version and I can include a modern translation in ours. I'll post and let everyone know when I hear from them.

      In Christ,
      Macrina
      anaphorapress.com

      On Jan 1, 2013, at 4:05 PM, Silouan Philip THompson wrote:

      > On 1/1/13 2:58 PM, Macrina Lewis wrote:
      >> My question regarding the inclusion of the archaic odes from HTM with the modern Fr. L Psalter is, why would you not just use the blue HTM Psalter for the Odes if you need them? Is there really an advantage to including them in the Fr. Lazarus Psalter?
      >
      > If I'm going to buy a liturgical Psalter to use at the cliros, then it's
      > got to have the Biblical Odes in it. During Lent you need the Odes in
      > order to serve daily Matins; if my Psalter were missing the Odes, then
      > I'd have to have a second Psalter containing the Odes. I'd rather juggle
      > as few books as possible at the cliros.
      >
      > Suggestion: If there's not a text by Fr Lazarus, then at a minimum you
      > might ask some of your editing team to work over Brenton's translation,
      > which is in the public domain. With some editing for accuracy and
      > beauty, it's at least a starting place.
      >
      > In Christ,
      > Deacon Silouan
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • James
      FYI The Russian Orthodox Psalter translated by David James and published by Holy Trinity Monastery in Jordanville also has the biblical odes and other material
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 3, 2013
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        FYI The Russian Orthodox Psalter translated by David James and published by Holy Trinity Monastery in Jordanville also has the biblical odes and other material (as well as the prayers after each kathisma) It is based on the Coverdale translation that survived in the English Book of Common Prayer.

        Rdr. James Morgan

        --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Silouan Philip THompson wrote:
        >
        > On 1/1/13 2:58 PM, Macrina Lewis wrote:
        > > My question regarding the inclusion of the archaic odes from HTM with the modern Fr. L Psalter is, why would you not just use the blue HTM Psalter for the Odes if you need them? Is there really an advantage to including them in the Fr. Lazarus Psalter?
        >
        > If I'm going to buy a liturgical Psalter to use at the cliros, then it's
        > got to have the Biblical Odes in it. During Lent you need the Odes in
        > order to serve daily Matins; if my Psalter were missing the Odes, then
        > I'd have to have a second Psalter containing the Odes. I'd rather juggle
        > as few books as possible at the cliros.
        >
        > Suggestion: If there's not a text by Fr Lazarus, then at a minimum you
        > might ask some of your editing team to work over Brenton's translation,
        > which is in the public domain. With some editing for accuracy and
        > beauty, it's at least a starting place.
        >
        > In Christ,
        > Deacon Silouan
        >
      • subdeaconmichaelastley
        Thank you, all, for your characteristically helpful responses. I m so grateful for this place. M
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 11, 2013
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          Thank you, all, for your characteristically helpful responses.

          I'm so grateful for this place.

          M

          --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "stephen_r1937" wrote:
          >
          > Or his printer may have omitted them; apparently the printer was not inclined even to correct errors in typesetting. I don't know who has Fr Lazarus's papers, but it would be useful to see what he really intended.
          >
          > Stephen
          >
          > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "starina77" wrote:
          > >
          > > I think that Archimandrite Lazarus was OK with using the existing KJV translation for these, or else he would have supplied a translation in his Psalter. (I also know that there were some financial constrains on the printing budget, and he might have chosen to omit them to keep the costs down.)
          > >
          > > Nikita
          > >
          > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "subdeaconmichaelastley" wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Dear fathers, sisters, brothers,
          > > >
          > > > A blessed feast of St Finnian of Clonard, St Herman of Alaska, or St Spyridon the Wonderworker, depending on where you are.
          > > >
          > > > I know that one of the criticisms of the psalter of Archimandrite Lazarus was that he did not include the odes of the canon. Does anybody know a place online or have access to his translations of them, if such exist? If so, please would be so good as to direct me to them? I'm particularly looking for the Song of the Three Holy Youths.
          > > >
          > > > Thank you.
          > > >
          > > > In Christ,
          > > > Michael
          > > >
          > >
          >
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