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Re: [ustav] services this weekend 10/21

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  • kyril@mynachdysantelias.fsnet.co.uk
    I seem to remember that we had a discussion of this topic some years ago. From memory the opinion emerged that the older Typikon gives the date as the Sunday
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 20, 2012
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      I seem to remember that we had a discussion of this topic some years ago. From memory the opinion emerged that the older Typikon gives the date as the Sunday nearest to October 11th (i.e. between 8th and 14th October), but that following the upgrading (in the Russian tradition) of all the feasts of the Twelve Apostles, in order to avoid a clash of services with St James on October 9th the commemoration of the Holy Fathers was changed to the Sunday on or after 11th October.


      Archimandrite Kyril Jenner




      > Message Received: Oct 20 2012, 05:40 PM
      > From: "Philip Sokolov"
      > To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
      > Cc:
      > Subject: Re: [ustav] services this weekend 10/21
      >
      > Daniel Olson wrote:
      >
      > > The Slavonic Menaion states in this regard:
      > >
      > > "If the 11th day of the current month [i.e., October] occurs on a
      > > Sunday, the service of the fathers of the Seventh Council is sung on
      > > that day. But If [it occurs] on Wednesday, their service is sung on the
      > > preceding Sunday; and if [it occurs] on Thursday, their service is sung
      > > on the following Sunday.
      > >
      > > Since 11 October in 2013 falls on Wednesday, in accordance the the
      > > above stated provisions, the service of the fathers is performed on the
      > > preceding Sunday, which falls on 8 October.
      >
      > Does the Typikon agree with the Menaion?
      >
      > --Philip
      >
      >
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    • Daniel Olson
      ... While this may well be the case, the actual practice of the contemporary Russian Church follows the prescription in the Menaion, thereby performing the
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 21, 2012
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        On Sat, Oct 20, 2012, Archimandrite Kyill (Jenner) wrote:

        > I seem to remember that we had a discussion of this topic some years ago. From memory the opinion emerged that the older Typikon gives the date as the Sunday nearest to October 11th (i.e. between 8th and 14th October), but that following the upgrading (in the Russian tradition) of all the feasts of the Twelve Apostles, in order to avoid a clash of services with St James on October 9th the commemoration of the Holy Fathers was changed to the Sunday on or after 11th October.

        While this may well be the case, the actual practice of the contemporary Russian Church follows the prescription in the Menaion, thereby performing the service of the Holy Fathers of the Seventh Council on the Sunday nearest 11 October rather than on the Sunday on or after 11 October.

        For example, in 2006, when the feast of the Apostle James (9 October) last fell on Sunday, the Moscow Patriarchate in its "Liturgical Instructions" prescribed only the commemoration of the Holy Fathers of the Seventh Council on that Sunday and transferred the feast of the Apostle James to the preceding day, Saturday, 8 October. In ROCOR, according to the Jordanville calendar for 2006, the commemoration of the Holy Fathers of the Seventh Council and that of the Apostle James were to be combined and performed together on Sunday, 9 October. There is a rule for such a combination in the Typicon when the commemoration of the Apostle John the Theologian (8 May) falls on the Sunday after the Ascension, whereon the commemoration of the Fathers of the First Council occurs.

        If Fr. Kyrill's interpretation is correct, it would seem that it is not being followed in actual practice � at least not in the Russian Church.

        Daniel Olson

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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