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Re: Deacons' and Readers' Sticharia

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  • S. Miller
    Father James wrote: A tonsured reader (except in some russian usages) wears his orarium crossed over his back but in front keeps both ends hanging straight
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 11, 2011
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      Father James wrote: A tonsured reader (except in some russian usages) wears his orarium crossed
      over his back but in front keeps both ends hanging straight down either side
      of his chest.

      Sorry, Father James. Readers only wear an orarion if given a blessing to so. It is not part of a readers vesture. There really is no difference between the ends crossed & the ends hanging down. Again we have here someone's made up rule. Please note that subdeacons originally (& still appear to be required)to wrap the orar arounf the waist as though it were a belt.

      Dn. Sergius Miller

      --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "James Silver" <frjsilver@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear Friends --
      >
      > The stikharions worn by acolytes, readers, hypodeacons, and deacons are
      > identical, whether sewn up the sides (more typical) or buttoned up the sides
      > (in imitation of episcopal vestments which are assumed to have people to
      > button them for the wearer). This is a matter of taste, but it might well
      > be more proper to leave the buttoned versions of all vestments to the
      > bishops.
      >
      > But there's another matter of liturgical vesture which needs to be
      > considered here, and that is how the various orders wear their orariums.
      >
      > Acolytes who aren't tonsured as readers or hypodeacons wear no orarium, and
      > are considered not to be clergy of even the lowest rank. St John
      > Maximovich of San Francisco required such acolytes to remove their
      > stikharions before receiving Holy Communion, and approach the holy cup in
      > their ordinary clothing.
      >
      > A tonsured reader (except in some russian usages) wears his orarium crossed
      > over his back but in front keeps both ends hanging straight down either side
      > of his chest.
      >
      > A hypodeacon wears his orarium crossed front and back, just as do the
      > deacons after 'Our Father' when approaching for Holy Communion.
      >
      > Peace and blessings to all.
      >
      > Monk James
      >
      > From: ustav@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ustav@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
      > Stephen Shott
      > Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 6:44 AM
      > To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [ustav] Deacons' and Readers' Sticharia
      >
      >  
      > Hello,
      >
      > i have a question about sticharia for readers. I have heard the sticharia
      > with buttoned sides referred to as deacons' sticharia, as opposed to those
      > with sown sides worn by altar servers/acolytes. Recently however I came
      > across a statement that the deacons' sticharia are appropriate for tonsured
      > persons (including readers) while the acolytes' sticharia are appropriate
      > for non-tonsured altar servers.
      >
      > Which style of sticharion should a reader ideally wear?
      >
      > Many thanks.
      >
      > In Christ,
      >
      > Stephen
      >
    • David
      When I read his posting I assumed Fr. James was referring to readers with the bishop s blessing. I received this blessing with an orarium from the bishop on
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 11, 2011
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        When I read his posting I assumed Fr. James was referring to readers
        with the bishop's blessing. I received this blessing with an orarium
        from the bishop on my 20th anniversary as a tonsured reader.

        Regards,

        rdr. David




        --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "S. Miller" <srbmillerr@...> wrote:
        >
        > Sorry, Father James. Readers only wear an orarion if given a blessing
        to so. It is not part of a readers vesture.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Deacon Philip Turner
        I think that the (made up) rule of acolytes, sewn up; tonsured readers and above, with buttons comes from the fact that you can see through the sides when it
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 11, 2011
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          I think that the (made up) rule of acolytes, sewn up; tonsured readers and above, with buttons comes from the fact that you can see through the sides when it is open with buttons. The open side is ok with a cassock underneath - but doesn't look so good with a loud colour t-shirt and jeans or shorts.

          Deacon Philip

          --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "S. Miller" <srbmillerr@...> wrote:
          >
          > Made up rules. Wear either.
          >
          > DnS
          >
          > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Shott <s.shott@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello,
          > >
          > > i have a question about sticharia for readers. I have heard the sticharia with buttoned sides referred to as deacons' sticharia, as opposed to those with sown sides worn by altar servers/acolytes. Recently however I came across a statement that the deacons' sticharia are appropriate for tonsured persons (including readers) while the acolytes' sticharia are appropriate for non-tonsured altar servers.
          > >
          > > Which style of sticharion should a reader ideally wear?
          > >
          > > Many thanks.
          > >
          > > In Christ,
          > >
          > > Stephen
          > >
          >
        • S. Miller
          OR put cassocks on the servers. DnS
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 12, 2011
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            OR put cassocks on the servers.

            DnS


            --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Deacon Philip Turner" <mildert@...> wrote:
            >
            > I think that the (made up) rule of acolytes, sewn up; tonsured readers and above, with buttons comes from the fact that you can see through the sides when it is open with buttons. The open side is ok with a cassock underneath - but doesn't look so good with a loud colour t-shirt and jeans or shorts.
            >
            > Deacon Philip
            >
            > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "S. Miller" <srbmillerr@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Made up rules. Wear either.
            > >
            > > DnS
            > >
            > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Shott <s.shott@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hello,
            > > >
            > > > i have a question about sticharia for readers. I have heard the sticharia with buttoned sides referred to as deacons' sticharia, as opposed to those with sown sides worn by altar servers/acolytes. Recently however I came across a statement that the deacons' sticharia are appropriate for tonsured persons (including readers) while the acolytes' sticharia are appropriate for non-tonsured altar servers.
            > > >
            > > > Which style of sticharion should a reader ideally wear?
            > > >
            > > > Many thanks.
            > > >
            > > > In Christ,
            > > >
            > > > Stephen
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Deacon Philip Turner
            A good solution, but I thought that normally a cassock could only be worn by someone with a special blessing. D. Philip
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 12, 2011
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              A good solution, but I thought that normally a cassock could only be worn by someone with a special blessing.

              D. Philip

              --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "S. Miller" <srbmillerr@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > OR put cassocks on the servers.
              >
              > DnS
              >
              >
              > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Deacon Philip Turner" <mildert@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I think that the (made up) rule of acolytes, sewn up; tonsured readers and above, with buttons comes from the fact that you can see through the sides when it is open with buttons. The open side is ok with a cassock underneath - but doesn't look so good with a loud colour t-shirt and jeans or shorts.
              > >
              > > Deacon Philip
              > >
              > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "S. Miller" <srbmillerr@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Made up rules. Wear either.
              > > >
              > > > DnS
              > > >
              > > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Shott <s.shott@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Hello,
              > > > >
              > > > > i have a question about sticharia for readers. I have heard the sticharia with buttoned sides referred to as deacons' sticharia, as opposed to those with sown sides worn by altar servers/acolytes. Recently however I came across a statement that the deacons' sticharia are appropriate for tonsured persons (including readers) while the acolytes' sticharia are appropriate for non-tonsured altar servers.
              > > > >
              > > > > Which style of sticharion should a reader ideally wear?
              > > > >
              > > > > Many thanks.
              > > > >
              > > > > In Christ,
              > > > >
              > > > > Stephen
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • Fr Deacon Michael Bishop
              If one is a monk or tonsured reader, he is expected to wear a cassock. There are made-up rules about when a reader can and cannot wear a cassock. I remember a
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 12, 2011
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                If one is a monk or tonsured reader, he is expected to wear a cassock.
                There are made-up rules about when a reader can and cannot wear a
                cassock. I remember a long discussion on this on the Indiana list many
                years ago when I happened to comment that I was walking from my car to
                my apartment in my cassock and somebody picked up on that and questioned
                it.

                The conclusion drawn from this discussion was that a reader is supposed
                to wear a cassock only during services. I forgot what was the
                conclusion for a subdeacon, not that it matters. Later I had a
                discussion with my priest and he told me that as a reader, I am a member
                of the clergy and that I should wear my cassock at any and all church
                functions, including the Greek Festival.

                A few weeks later I went to the Greek Festival and was in cassock. When
                I went through the food line, the head of the kitchen was there and told
                the line people to put certain items on my tray and when I got to the
                cashier, I asked "How much do I owe?" and he said "Nothing." The man
                who took me there also got his meal free.

                At our parish the altar servers wear cassocks under their sticharia. I
                have no idea when or why this practice started, but I suspect that it
                was because the sticharia often left much to be desired. When the
                service is done, they take off their cassocks and sticharia. Reader
                Joseph and I keep our cassocks on while at the church.

                A sticharion today costs approximately $100 each and up, depending on
                size and source. A Roman Catholic cassock, which our altar servers
                wear, costs $60 and can be washed in a washing machine.

                Deacon Michael

                On Tuesday 12 Jul 2011 09:37, Deacon Philip Turner wrote:
                > A good solution, but I thought that normally a cassock could only be
                > worn by someone with a special blessing.
                >
                > D. Philip
                >
                > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ustav%40yahoogroups.com>, "S.
                > Miller" <srbmillerr@...> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > OR put cassocks on the servers.
                > >
                > > DnS
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ustav%40yahoogroups.com>,
                > "Deacon Philip Turner" <mildert@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > I think that the (made up) rule of acolytes, sewn up; tonsured
                > readers and above, with buttons comes from the fact that you can see
                > through the sides when it is open with buttons. The open side is ok with
                > a cassock underneath - but doesn't look so good with a loud colour
                > t-shirt and jeans or shorts.
                > > >
                > > > Deacon Philip
                > > >
                > > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ustav%40yahoogroups.com>, "S.
                > Miller" <srbmillerr@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Made up rules. Wear either.
                > > > >
                > > > > DnS
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ustav%40yahoogroups.com>,
                > Stephen Shott <s.shott@> wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Hello,
                > > > > >
                > > > > > i have a question about sticharia for readers. I have heard the
                > sticharia with buttoned sides referred to as deacons' sticharia, as
                > opposed to those with sown sides worn by altar servers/acolytes.
                > Recently however I came across a statement that the deacons' sticharia
                > are appropriate for tonsured persons (including readers) while the
                > acolytes' sticharia are appropriate for non-tonsured altar servers.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Which style of sticharion should a reader ideally wear?
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Many thanks.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > In Christ,
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Stephen
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                >
                > No virus found in this message.
                > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                > Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3760 - Release Date: 07/12/11
                >

                --
                Deacon Michael Bishop
                PO Box 422
                Baltimore MD 21203
                http://www.Michael-Bishop.com

                See you at the Russian Festival
                14-16 October 2011
              • kyril@mynachdysantelias.fsnet.co.uk
                ... That is how I was vested for the whole time (less than one hour) during which I was a subdeacon. Archimandrite Kyril Jenner
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 12, 2011
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                  > Message Received: Jul 11 2011, 12:33 PM
                  > From: "S. Miller"
                  > To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
                  > Cc:
                  > Subject: [ustav] Re: Deacons' and Readers' Sticharia
                  >
                  >

                  >
                  > Please note that subdeacons originally (& still appear to be required)to wrap the orar arounf the waist as though it were a belt.
                  >
                  >

                  That is how I was vested for the whole time (less than one hour) during which I was a subdeacon.

                  Archimandrite Kyril Jenner
                • stephen_r1937
                  Oregon did that? Stephen
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jul 12, 2011
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                    Oregon did that?

                    Stephen

                    --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "S. Miller" <srbmillerr@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > OR put cassocks on the servers.
                    >
                    > DnS
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Deacon Philip Turner" <mildert@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I think that the (made up) rule of acolytes, sewn up; tonsured readers and above, with buttons comes from the fact that you can see through the sides when it is open with buttons. The open side is ok with a cassock underneath - but doesn't look so good with a loud colour t-shirt and jeans or shorts.
                    > >
                    > > Deacon Philip
                    > >
                    > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "S. Miller" <srbmillerr@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Made up rules. Wear either.
                    > > >
                    > > > DnS
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Shott <s.shott@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Hello,
                    > > > >
                    > > > > i have a question about sticharia for readers. I have heard the sticharia with buttoned sides referred to as deacons' sticharia, as opposed to those with sown sides worn by altar servers/acolytes. Recently however I came across a statement that the deacons' sticharia are appropriate for tonsured persons (including readers) while the acolytes' sticharia are appropriate for non-tonsured altar servers.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Which style of sticharion should a reader ideally wear?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Many thanks.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > In Christ,
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Stephen
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • S. Miller
                    Teehee! Actually DC. dnS
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jul 12, 2011
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                      Teehee! Actually DC.

                      dnS

                      --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "stephen_r1937" <stephen_r1937@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Oregon did that?
                      >
                      > Stephen
                      >
                      > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "S. Miller" <srbmillerr@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > OR put cassocks on the servers.
                      > >
                      > > DnS
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Deacon Philip Turner" <mildert@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > I think that the (made up) rule of acolytes, sewn up; tonsured readers and above, with buttons comes from the fact that you can see through the sides when it is open with buttons. The open side is ok with a cassock underneath - but doesn't look so good with a loud colour t-shirt and jeans or shorts.
                      > > >
                      > > > Deacon Philip
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "S. Miller" <srbmillerr@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Made up rules. Wear either.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > DnS
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Shott <s.shott@> wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Hello,
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > i have a question about sticharia for readers. I have heard the sticharia with buttoned sides referred to as deacons' sticharia, as opposed to those with sown sides worn by altar servers/acolytes. Recently however I came across a statement that the deacons' sticharia are appropriate for tonsured persons (including readers) while the acolytes' sticharia are appropriate for non-tonsured altar servers.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Which style of sticharion should a reader ideally wear?
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Many thanks.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > In Christ,
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Stephen
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Fr Deacon Michael Bishop
                      Interesting. Unfortunately, I could not get a good view of the front. But I did learn something. Deacon Michael ... -- Deacon Michael Bishop PO Box 422
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jul 12, 2011
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                        Interesting. Unfortunately, I could not get a good view of the front.
                        But I did learn something.

                        Deacon Michael

                        On Tuesday 12 Jul 2011 12:34, S. Miller wrote:
                        >
                        > See an Old Believer subdeacon vested this way.
                        >
                        > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqcJPbG7vKk&feature=related
                        > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqcJPbG7vKk&feature=related>
                        >
                        > dnS
                        >
                        > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ustav%40yahoogroups.com>, kyril@...
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > Message Received: Jul 11 2011, 12:33 PM
                        > > > From: "S. Miller"
                        > > > To: ustav@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ustav%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > > > Cc:
                        > > > Subject: [ustav] Re: Deacons' and Readers' Sticharia
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Please note that subdeacons originally (& still appear to be
                        > required)to wrap the orar arounf the waist as though it were a belt.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > That is how I was vested for the whole time (less than one hour)
                        > during which I was a subdeacon.
                        > >
                        > > Archimandrite Kyril Jenner
                        > >

                        --
                        Deacon Michael Bishop
                        PO Box 422
                        Baltimore MD 21203
                        http://www.Michael-Bishop.com

                        See you at the Russian Festival
                        14-16 October 2011
                      • S. Miller
                        Fr. Kyril: The orar looks to have been tied in the front. Is that in accord w/your wearing of the orar? Dn. Sergius
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jul 13, 2011
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                          Fr. Kyril:

                          The orar looks to have been tied in the front. Is that in accord w/your wearing of the orar?

                          Dn. Sergius

                          --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, kyril@... wrote:
                          >
                          > > Message Received: Jul 11 2011, 12:33 PM
                          > > From: "S. Miller"
                          > > To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Cc:
                          > > Subject: [ustav] Re: Deacons' and Readers' Sticharia
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          > > Please note that subdeacons originally (& still appear to be required)to wrap the orar arounf the waist as though it were a belt.
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          > That is how I was vested for the whole time (less than one hour) during which I was a subdeacon.
                          >
                          > Archimandrite Kyril Jenner
                          >
                        • kyril@mynachdysantelias.fsnet.co.uk
                          From unreliable memory (it was nearly 40 years ago): the orarion was the double orarion (Greek style - I was ordained by a Greek Archbishop). It was folded
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jul 13, 2011
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                            From unreliable memory (it was nearly 40 years ago): the orarion was the "double" orarion (Greek style - I was ordained by a Greek Archbishop). It was folded end to end and then put round my waist and tied like a sash (front right).

                            Archimandrite Kyril Jenner


                            > Message Received: Jul 13 2011, 05:44 PM
                            > From: "S. Miller"
                            > To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
                            > Cc:
                            > Subject: [ustav] Re: Deacons' and Readers' Sticharia
                            >
                            >
                            > Fr. Kyril:
                            >
                            > The orar looks to have been tied in the front. Is that in accord w/your wearing of the orar?
                            >
                            > Dn. Sergius
                            >
                            > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, kyril@... wrote:
                            > >
                            > > > Message Received: Jul 11 2011, 12:33 PM
                            > > > From: "S. Miller"
                            > > > To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > Cc:
                            > > > Subject: [ustav] Re: Deacons' and Readers' Sticharia
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Please note that subdeacons originally (& still appear to be required)to wrap the orar arounf the waist as though it were a belt.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > That is how I was vested for the whole time (less than one hour) during which I was a subdeacon.
                            > >
                            > > Archimandrite Kyril Jenner
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
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                          • srbm73
                            This fits the illustration of a subdeacon in John Glen King The Rites and Ceremonies of the Greek Church in Russia. London: 1772. DnSergius
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jul 13, 2011
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                              This fits the illustration of a subdeacon in John Glen King "The Rites and Ceremonies of the Greek Church in Russia." London: 1772.

                              DnSergius



                              --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, kyril@... wrote:
                              >
                              > From unreliable memory (it was nearly 40 years ago): the orarion was the "double" orarion (Greek style - I was ordained by a Greek Archbishop). It was folded end to end and then put round my waist and tied like a sash (front right).
                              >
                              > Archimandrite Kyril Jenner
                              >
                              >
                              > > Message Received: Jul 13 2011, 05:44 PM
                              > > From: "S. Miller"
                              > > To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Cc:
                              > > Subject: [ustav] Re: Deacons' and Readers' Sticharia
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Fr. Kyril:
                              > >
                              > > The orar looks to have been tied in the front. Is that in accord w/your wearing of the orar?
                              > >
                              > > Dn. Sergius
                              > >
                              > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, kyril@ wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > > Message Received: Jul 11 2011, 12:33 PM
                              > > > > From: "S. Miller"
                              > > > > To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > Cc:
                              > > > > Subject: [ustav] Re: Deacons' and Readers' Sticharia
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Please note that subdeacons originally (& still appear to be required)to wrap the orar arounf the waist as though it were a belt.
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > That is how I was vested for the whole time (less than one hour) during which I was a subdeacon.
                              > > >
                              > > > Archimandrite Kyril Jenner
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ------------------------------------
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Post message: ustav@yahoogroups.com
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                              > >
                              > > More ustav information and service texts:
                              > > http://www.orthodox.net/ustav
                              > > http://www.orthodox.net/services
                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
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