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  • betsytumbas
    ... Saludos de la California, Roberto, Me pregunto si la forma Cristo ha resucitado no es correcta. Es la que normalmento usamos aqui en California. (I am
    Message 1 of 19 , Apr 8 9:44 AM
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      --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Di�cono Roberto Le�n Ram�rez <siluanrobert@...> wrote:
      >
      > Cristo Resucit�
      >
      > En Verdad, Resucit�
      >
      > Di�cono Roberto Le�n R.
      > Santiago de Chile
      >
      ----

      Saludos de la California, Roberto,

      Me pregunto si la forma "Cristo ha resucitado" no es correcta. Es la que normalmento usamos aqui en California.

      (I am wondering if the form "Cristo ha resucitado" isn't correct. It's the one we usually use in California.)

      Muchas gracias,

      Matushka Betsy Tumbas
    • doremiguel
      La salutacion/el saludo Pascual en castellano/espan~ol es: Cristo ha resucitado! La otra forma es incorrecta, a no ser que uno este pensando de la version
      Message 2 of 19 , Apr 8 10:01 AM
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        La salutacion/el saludo Pascual en castellano/espan~ol es: Cristo ha resucitado!
        La otra forma es incorrecta, a no ser que uno este pensando de la version portuguesa (Cristo ressuscitou!)

        The Paschal salutation/greeting in Castilian/Spanish is: Cristo ha resucitado!
        The other form is incorrect, unless one is thinking of the Portuguese version (Cristo ressuscitou!)

        (I have always wondered why Yahoo doesn't allow any punctuation/grammar signs other than the English ones ...)


        --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "betsytumbas" <betsy@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Di�cono Roberto Le�n Ram�rez <siluanrobert@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Cristo Resucit�
        > >
        > > En Verdad, Resucit�
        > >
        > > Di�cono Roberto Le�n R.
        > > Santiago de Chile
        > >
        > ----
        >
        > Saludos de la California, Roberto,
        >
        > Me pregunto si la forma "Cristo ha resucitado" no es correcta. Es la que normalmento usamos aqui en California.
        >
        > (I am wondering if the form "Cristo ha resucitado" isn't correct. It's the one we usually use in California.)
        >
        > Muchas gracias,
        >
        > Matushka Betsy Tumbas
        >
      • Diácono Roberto León Ramírez
        Saludos en Cristo: En las diferentes iglesias Ortodoxas en Chile, usamos Cristo Resucitó . Antiguamente se traducía como Cristo ha Resucitado , pero ya no
        Message 3 of 19 , Apr 9 8:43 AM
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          Saludos en Cristo:

          En las diferentes iglesias Ortodoxas en Chile, usamos "Cristo Resucit�".
          Antiguamente se traduc�a como "Cristo ha Resucitado", pero ya no se usa as�
          desde hace varios a�os, aunque en espa�ol no suena mal.

          Cristo Resucit�

          Di�cono Roberto Le�n

          2010/4/8 doremiguel <eureka_msc_ortod@...>

          >
          >
          >
          >
          > La salutacion/el saludo Pascual en castellano/espan~ol es: Cristo ha
          > resucitado!
          > La otra forma es incorrecta, a no ser que uno este pensando de la version
          > portuguesa (Cristo ressuscitou!)
          >
          > The Paschal salutation/greeting in Castilian/Spanish is: Cristo ha
          > resucitado!
          > The other form is incorrect, unless one is thinking of the Portuguese
          > version (Cristo ressuscitou!)
          >
          > (I have always wondered why Yahoo doesn't allow any punctuation/grammar
          > signs other than the English ones ...)
          >
          >
          > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com <ustav%40yahoogroups.com>, "betsytumbas"
          > <betsy@...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com <ustav%40yahoogroups.com>, Di���cono
          > Roberto Le���n Ram���rez <siluanrobert@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Cristo Resucit���
          > > >
          > > > En Verdad, Resucit���
          > > >
          > > > Di���cono Roberto Le���n R.
          > > > Santiago de Chile
          > > >
          > > ----
          > >
          > > Saludos de la California, Roberto,
          > >
          > > Me pregunto si la forma "Cristo ha resucitado" no es correcta. Es la que
          > normalmento usamos aqui en California.
          > >
          > > (I am wondering if the form "Cristo ha resucitado" isn't correct. It's
          > the one we usually use in California.)
          > >
          > > Muchas gracias,
          > >
          > > Matushka Betsy Tumbas
          > >
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • doremiguel
          There are theological as well as linguistics implications in the use (or misuse) of different translations. This is one of the greatest issues that occur
          Message 4 of 19 , Apr 9 9:07 AM
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            There are theological as well as linguistics implications in the use (or misuse) of different translations. This is one of the greatest issues that occur while translating from the older texts of the Church's services. The fact that many dioceses/parishes use a wrong translation doesn't make that translation the true/correct one. This is widely seen in the translation of Kyrie Eleison, which in Spanish must be translated as Sen~or ten misericordia, but its wrongly translated as Sen~or ten piedad. Both this case as in the Xristos Anesti case the translations offered by me are based on the theological and grammatical translations from the Greek, Slavonic, Latin and Arabic.

            It is only a suggestion/explanation, not a dogma of Faith


            Existen implicaciones teologicas al igual que linguisticas en el uso (o mal uso) de diferentes traducciones. Este es uno de los grandes problemas que ocurren cuando se traduce de los antiguos textos de los oficios de la Iglesia. El hecho que muchas diocesis/parroquias usen una traduccion equivocada no hace de esa traduccion la verdadera/correcta. Esto se observa extensamente en la traduccion de Kyrie Eleison, el cual en espan~ol debe ser traducido como Sen~or ten misericordia, pero es erroneamente traducido como Sen~or ten piedad. Tanto en este caso como en el de Xristos Anesti las traducciones ofrecidas por mi estan basadas en las traducciones teologicas y gramaticales del griego, eslavo, latin y arabe.

            Es solo una sugerencia/explicacion, no un dogma de Fe.
          • stephen_r1937
            Y también en inglés siempre decimos Christ is risen y no Christ arose. And this seems well established, even though the construction--using to be
            Message 5 of 19 , Apr 9 12:05 PM
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              Y también en inglés siempre decimos "Christ is risen" y no "Christ arose."

              And this seems well established, even though the construction--using "to be" rather than "to have" as the auxiliary verb of a principle verb of motion--is pretty much obsolete in ordinary usage.

              As for Yahoo and the punctuation marks, it is the limitation to the ASCII/ANSI repertory that is the problem. Only when finally Unicode is adopted as the standard will we be free from this nonsense.

              !Ojalá que venga pronto! Then I can invert the opening exclamation point. Then I can send text in Greek, and in Slavonic without deforming it by using some new orthography.

              Stephen



              --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "doremiguel" <eureka_msc_ortod@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > There are theological as well as linguistics implications in the use (or misuse) of different translations. This is one of the greatest issues that occur while translating from the older texts of the Church's services. The fact that many dioceses/parishes use a wrong translation doesn't make that translation the true/correct one. This is widely seen in the translation of Kyrie Eleison, which in Spanish must be translated as Sen~or ten misericordia, but its wrongly translated as Sen~or ten piedad. Both this case as in the Xristos Anesti case the translations offered by me are based on the theological and grammatical translations from the Greek, Slavonic, Latin and Arabic.
              >
              > It is only a suggestion/explanation, not a dogma of Faith
              >
              >
              > Existen implicaciones teologicas al igual que linguisticas en el uso (o mal uso) de diferentes traducciones. Este es uno de los grandes problemas que ocurren cuando se traduce de los antiguos textos de los oficios de la Iglesia. El hecho que muchas diocesis/parroquias usen una traduccion equivocada no hace de esa traduccion la verdadera/correcta. Esto se observa extensamente en la traduccion de Kyrie Eleison, el cual en espan~ol debe ser traducido como Sen~or ten misericordia, pero es erroneamente traducido como Sen~or ten piedad. Tanto en este caso como en el de Xristos Anesti las traducciones ofrecidas por mi estan basadas en las traducciones teologicas y gramaticales del griego, eslavo, latin y arabe.
              >
              > Es solo una sugerencia/explicacion, no un dogma de Fe.
              >
            • stephen_r1937
              Y también en inglés siempre decimos Christ is risen y no Christ arose. And this seems well established, even though the construction--using to be
              Message 6 of 19 , Apr 9 12:06 PM
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                Y también en inglés siempre decimos "Christ is risen" y no "Christ arose."

                And this seems well established, even though the construction--using "to be" rather than "to have" as the auxiliary verb of a principle verb of motion--is pretty much obsolete in ordinary usage.

                As for Yahoo and the punctuation marks, it is the limitation to the ASCII/ANSI repertory that is the problem. Only when finally Unicode is adopted as the standard will we be free from this nonsense.

                !Ojalá que venga pronto! Then I can invert the opening exclamation point. Then I can send text in Greek, and in Slavonic without deforming it by using some new orthography.

                Stephen



                --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "doremiguel" <eureka_msc_ortod@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > There are theological as well as linguistics implications in the use (or misuse) of different translations. This is one of the greatest issues that occur while translating from the older texts of the Church's services. The fact that many dioceses/parishes use a wrong translation doesn't make that translation the true/correct one. This is widely seen in the translation of Kyrie Eleison, which in Spanish must be translated as Sen~or ten misericordia, but its wrongly translated as Sen~or ten piedad. Both this case as in the Xristos Anesti case the translations offered by me are based on the theological and grammatical translations from the Greek, Slavonic, Latin and Arabic.
                >
                > It is only a suggestion/explanation, not a dogma of Faith
                >
                >
                > Existen implicaciones teologicas al igual que linguisticas en el uso (o mal uso) de diferentes traducciones. Este es uno de los grandes problemas que ocurren cuando se traduce de los antiguos textos de los oficios de la Iglesia. El hecho que muchas diocesis/parroquias usen una traduccion equivocada no hace de esa traduccion la verdadera/correcta. Esto se observa extensamente en la traduccion de Kyrie Eleison, el cual en espan~ol debe ser traducido como Sen~or ten misericordia, pero es erroneamente traducido como Sen~or ten piedad. Tanto en este caso como en el de Xristos Anesti las traducciones ofrecidas por mi estan basadas en las traducciones teologicas y gramaticales del griego, eslavo, latin y arabe.
                >
                > Es solo una sugerencia/explicacion, no un dogma de Fe.
                >
              • Deacon Michael Bishop
                I concur with Stephen about the punctuation marks. Right now we are extremely limited when it comes to foreign languages. I would love to be able to install
                Message 7 of 19 , Apr 9 1:08 PM
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                  I concur with Stephen about the punctuation marks. Right now we are
                  extremely limited when it comes to foreign languages. I would love to
                  be able to install the operating system on my computer and immediately
                  active the Russian or Ukrainian alphabet for Americans and not for
                  Russians. Right now when I want to type a letter in Russian, I find it
                  is much easier for me to type it in WordPerfect and then use cut and
                  copy. It would be wonderful if I could type in Russian or French or
                  Greek in almost any program that I use.

                  Deacon Michael

                  stephen_r1937 wrote:
                  > Y también en inglés siempre decimos "Christ is risen" y no "Christ arose."
                  >
                  > And this seems well established, even though the construction--using "to be" rather than "to have" as the auxiliary verb of a principle verb of motion--is pretty much obsolete in ordinary usage.
                  >
                  > As for Yahoo and the punctuation marks, it is the limitation to the ASCII/ANSI repertory that is the problem. Only when finally Unicode is adopted as the standard will we be free from this nonsense.
                  >
                  > !Ojalá que venga pronto! Then I can invert the opening exclamation point. Then I can send text in Greek, and in Slavonic without deforming it by using some new orthography.
                  >
                  > Stephen
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "doremiguel" <eureka_msc_ortod@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> There are theological as well as linguistics implications in the use (or misuse) of different translations. This is one of the greatest issues that occur while translating from the older texts of the Church's services. The fact that many dioceses/parishes use a wrong translation doesn't make that translation the true/correct one. This is widely seen in the translation of Kyrie Eleison, which in Spanish must be translated as Sen~or ten misericordia, but its wrongly translated as Sen~or ten piedad. Both this case as in the Xristos Anesti case the translations offered by me are based on the theological and grammatical translations from the Greek, Slavonic, Latin and Arabic.
                  >>
                  >> It is only a suggestion/explanation, not a dogma of Faith
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Existen implicaciones teologicas al igual que linguisticas en el uso (o mal uso) de diferentes traducciones. Este es uno de los grandes problemas que ocurren cuando se traduce de los antiguos textos de los oficios de la Iglesia. El hecho que muchas diocesis/parroquias usen una traduccion equivocada no hace de esa traduccion la verdadera/correcta. Esto se observa extensamente en la traduccion de Kyrie Eleison, el cual en espan~ol debe ser traducido como Sen~or ten misericordia, pero es erroneamente traducido como Sen~or ten piedad. Tanto en este caso como en el de Xristos Anesti las traducciones ofrecidas por mi estan basadas en las traducciones teologicas y gramaticales del griego, eslavo, latin y arabe.
                  >>
                  >> Es solo una sugerencia/explicacion, no un dogma de Fe.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  >
                  > Post message: ustav@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subscribe: ustav-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > Unsubscribe: ustav-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > CONTACT LIST OWNER: ustav-owner@yahoogroups.com
                  > URL to archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ustav
                  >
                  > More ustav information and service texts:
                  > http://www.orthodox.net/ustav
                  > http://www.orthodox.net/services
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  --
                  Deacon Michael Bishop
                  PO Box 23485
                  Baltimore MD 21203-5485
                  http://www.Michael-Bishop.com

                  See you at the Russian Festival
                  15-17 October 2010
                • viatich1002
                  I have been using all those Windows alphabets that you need to add from the control panel and never had any problem with writing in whatever language I needed
                  Message 8 of 19 , Apr 10 6:55 AM
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                    I have been using all those Windows alphabets that you need to add from the control panel and never had any problem with writing in whatever language I needed in any application I used.


                    --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Deacon Michael Bishop <Photo@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I concur with Stephen about the punctuation marks. Right now we are
                    > extremely limited when it comes to foreign languages. I would love to
                    > be able to install the operating system on my computer and immediately
                    > active the Russian or Ukrainian alphabet for Americans and not for
                    > Russians. Right now when I want to type a letter in Russian, I find it
                    > is much easier for me to type it in WordPerfect and then use cut and
                    > copy. It would be wonderful if I could type in Russian or French or
                    > Greek in almost any program that I use.
                    >
                    > Deacon Michael
                    >
                    > stephen_r1937 wrote:
                    > > Y tambi�n en ingl�s siempre decimos "Christ is risen" y no "Christ arose."
                    > >
                    > > And this seems well established, even though the construction--using "to be" rather than "to have" as the auxiliary verb of a principle verb of motion--is pretty much obsolete in ordinary usage.
                    > >
                    > > As for Yahoo and the punctuation marks, it is the limitation to the ASCII/ANSI repertory that is the problem. Only when finally Unicode is adopted as the standard will we be free from this nonsense.
                    > >
                    > > !Ojal� que venga pronto! Then I can invert the opening exclamation point. Then I can send text in Greek, and in Slavonic without deforming it by using some new orthography.
                    > >
                    > > Stephen
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "doremiguel" <eureka_msc_ortod@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> There are theological as well as linguistics implications in the use (or misuse) of different translations. This is one of the greatest issues that occur while translating from the older texts of the Church's services. The fact that many dioceses/parishes use a wrong translation doesn't make that translation the true/correct one. This is widely seen in the translation of Kyrie Eleison, which in Spanish must be translated as Sen~or ten misericordia, but its wrongly translated as Sen~or ten piedad. Both this case as in the Xristos Anesti case the translations offered by me are based on the theological and grammatical translations from the Greek, Slavonic, Latin and Arabic.
                    > >>
                    > >> It is only a suggestion/explanation, not a dogma of Faith
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> Existen implicaciones teologicas al igual que linguisticas en el uso (o mal uso) de diferentes traducciones. Este es uno de los grandes problemas que ocurren cuando se traduce de los antiguos textos de los oficios de la Iglesia. El hecho que muchas diocesis/parroquias usen una traduccion equivocada no hace de esa traduccion la verdadera/correcta. Esto se observa extensamente en la traduccion de Kyrie Eleison, el cual en espan~ol debe ser traducido como Sen~or ten misericordia, pero es erroneamente traducido como Sen~or ten piedad. Tanto en este caso como en el de Xristos Anesti las traducciones ofrecidas por mi estan basadas en las traducciones teologicas y gramaticales del griego, eslavo, latin y arabe.
                    > >>
                    > >> Es solo una sugerencia/explicacion, no un dogma de Fe.
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Post message: ustav@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subscribe: ustav-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Unsubscribe: ustav-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > > CONTACT LIST OWNER: ustav-owner@yahoogroups.com
                    > > URL to archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ustav
                    > >
                    > > More ustav information and service texts:
                    > > http://www.orthodox.net/ustav
                    > > http://www.orthodox.net/services
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Deacon Michael Bishop
                    > PO Box 23485
                    > Baltimore MD 21203-5485
                    > http://www.Michael-Bishop.com
                    >
                    > See you at the Russian Festival
                    > 15-17 October 2010
                    >
                  • stephen_r1937
                    Under Regional & Language Options ? I installed a bunch immediately I got Windows installed, including Cyrillic and Greek. The work fine in the word
                    Message 9 of 19 , Apr 10 11:44 AM
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                      Under "Regional & Language Options"? I installed a bunch immediately I got Windows installed, including Cyrillic and Greek. The work fine in the word processor. But not long ago when I tried to include some Greek text in a message to this forum it was reduced to gibberish when displayed. Even vowels with acute accent are not treated right. The Spanish in my message comes out all right when read directly, but when quoted in a more recent message--just scroll down--even something as simple as the acute accent is turned into nonsense. Doremiguel's message below comes out as he entered it, but at the expense of omitting accents on words that should have them. And this is the simplest level of the problem. Greek or Cyrillic--it's a complete mess!

                      Stephen

                      --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "viatich1002" <innok63@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > I have been using all those Windows alphabets that you need to add from the control panel and never had any problem with writing in whatever language I needed in any application I used.
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Deacon Michael Bishop <Photo@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I concur with Stephen about the punctuation marks. Right now we are
                      > > extremely limited when it comes to foreign languages. I would love to
                      > > be able to install the operating system on my computer and immediately
                      > > active the Russian or Ukrainian alphabet for Americans and not for
                      > > Russians. Right now when I want to type a letter in Russian, I find it
                      > > is much easier for me to type it in WordPerfect and then use cut and
                      > > copy. It would be wonderful if I could type in Russian or French or
                      > > Greek in almost any program that I use.
                      > >
                      > > Deacon Michael
                      > >
                      > > stephen_r1937 wrote:
                      > > > Y tambi�n en ingl�s siempre decimos "Christ is risen" y no "Christ arose."
                      > > >
                      > > > And this seems well established, even though the construction--using "to be" rather than "to have" as the auxiliary verb of a principle verb of motion--is pretty much obsolete in ordinary usage.
                      > > >
                      > > > As for Yahoo and the punctuation marks, it is the limitation to the ASCII/ANSI repertory that is the problem. Only when finally Unicode is adopted as the standard will we be free from this nonsense.
                      > > >
                      > > > !Ojal� que venga pronto! Then I can invert the opening exclamation point. Then I can send text in Greek, and in Slavonic without deforming it by using some new orthography.
                      > > >
                      > > > Stephen
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "doremiguel" <eureka_msc_ortod@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > >>
                      > > >>
                      > > >> There are theological as well as linguistics implications in the use (or misuse) of different translations. This is one of the greatest issues that occur while translating from the older texts of the Church's services. The fact that many dioceses/parishes use a wrong translation doesn't make that translation the true/correct one. This is widely seen in the translation of Kyrie Eleison, which in Spanish must be translated as Sen~or ten misericordia, but its wrongly translated as Sen~or ten piedad. Both this case as in the Xristos Anesti case the translations offered by me are based on the theological and grammatical translations from the Greek, Slavonic, Latin and Arabic.
                      > > >>
                      > > >> It is only a suggestion/explanation, not a dogma of Faith
                      > > >>
                      > > >>
                      > > >> Existen implicaciones teologicas al igual que linguisticas en el uso (o mal uso) de diferentes traducciones. Este es uno de los grandes problemas que ocurren cuando se traduce de los antiguos textos de los oficios de la Iglesia. El hecho que muchas diocesis/parroquias usen una traduccion equivocada no hace de esa traduccion la verdadera/correcta. Esto se observa extensamente en la traduccion de Kyrie Eleison, el cual en espan~ol debe ser traducido como Sen~or ten misericordia, pero es erroneamente traducido como Sen~or ten piedad. Tanto en este caso como en el de Xristos Anesti las traducciones ofrecidas por mi estan basadas en las traducciones teologicas y gramaticales del griego, eslavo, latin y arabe.
                      > > >>
                      > > >> Es solo una sugerencia/explicacion, no un dogma de Fe.
                      > > >>
                      > > >>
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ------------------------------------
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Post message: ustav@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > Subscribe: ustav-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > Unsubscribe: ustav-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > CONTACT LIST OWNER: ustav-owner@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > URL to archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ustav
                      > > >
                      > > > More ustav information and service texts:
                      > > > http://www.orthodox.net/ustav
                      > > > http://www.orthodox.net/services
                      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > --
                      > > Deacon Michael Bishop
                      > > PO Box 23485
                      > > Baltimore MD 21203-5485
                      > > http://www.Michael-Bishop.com
                      > >
                      > > See you at the Russian Festival
                      > > 15-17 October 2010
                      > >
                      >
                    • viatich1002
                      С чего бы это такие непонятные проблемки?
                      Message 10 of 19 , Apr 11 5:00 PM
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                        С чего бы это такие непонятные проблемки?

                        --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "stephen_r1937" <stephen_r1937@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Under "Regional & Language Options"? I installed a bunch immediately I got Windows installed, including Cyrillic and Greek. The work fine in the word processor. But not long ago when I tried to include some Greek text in a message to this forum it was reduced to gibberish when displayed. Even vowels with acute accent are not treated right. The Spanish in my message comes out all right when read directly, but when quoted in a more recent message--just scroll down--even something as simple as the acute accent is turned into nonsense. Doremiguel's message below comes out as he entered it, but at the expense of omitting accents on words that should have them. And this is the simplest level of the problem. Greek or Cyrillic--it's a complete mess!
                        >
                        > Stephen
                        >
                        > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "viatich1002" <innok63@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > I have been using all those Windows alphabets that you need to add from the control panel and never had any problem with writing in whatever language I needed in any application I used.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Deacon Michael Bishop <Photo@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > I concur with Stephen about the punctuation marks. Right now we are
                        > > > extremely limited when it comes to foreign languages. I would love to
                        > > > be able to install the operating system on my computer and immediately
                        > > > active the Russian or Ukrainian alphabet for Americans and not for
                        > > > Russians. Right now when I want to type a letter in Russian, I find it
                        > > > is much easier for me to type it in WordPerfect and then use cut and
                        > > > copy. It would be wonderful if I could type in Russian or French or
                        > > > Greek in almost any program that I use.
                        > > >
                        > > > Deacon Michael
                        > > >
                        > > > stephen_r1937 wrote:
                        > > > > Y tambi�n en ingl�s siempre decimos "Christ is risen" y no "Christ arose."
                        > > > >
                        > > > > And this seems well established, even though the construction--using "to be" rather than "to have" as the auxiliary verb of a principle verb of motion--is pretty much obsolete in ordinary usage.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > As for Yahoo and the punctuation marks, it is the limitation to the ASCII/ANSI repertory that is the problem. Only when finally Unicode is adopted as the standard will we be free from this nonsense.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > !Ojal� que venga pronto! Then I can invert the opening exclamation point. Then I can send text in Greek, and in Slavonic without deforming it by using some new orthography.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Stephen
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "doremiguel" <eureka_msc_ortod@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > >>
                        > > > >>
                        > > > >> There are theological as well as linguistics implications in the use (or misuse) of different translations. This is one of the greatest issues that occur while translating from the older texts of the Church's services. The fact that many dioceses/parishes use a wrong translation doesn't make that translation the true/correct one. This is widely seen in the translation of Kyrie Eleison, which in Spanish must be translated as Sen~or ten misericordia, but its wrongly translated as Sen~or ten piedad. Both this case as in the Xristos Anesti case the translations offered by me are based on the theological and grammatical translations from the Greek, Slavonic, Latin and Arabic.
                        > > > >>
                        > > > >> It is only a suggestion/explanation, not a dogma of Faith
                        > > > >>
                        > > > >>
                        > > > >> Existen implicaciones teologicas al igual que linguisticas en el uso (o mal uso) de diferentes traducciones. Este es uno de los grandes problemas que ocurren cuando se traduce de los antiguos textos de los oficios de la Iglesia. El hecho que muchas diocesis/parroquias usen una traduccion equivocada no hace de esa traduccion la verdadera/correcta. Esto se observa extensamente en la traduccion de Kyrie Eleison, el cual en espan~ol debe ser traducido como Sen~or ten misericordia, pero es erroneamente traducido como Sen~or ten piedad. Tanto en este caso como en el de Xristos Anesti las traducciones ofrecidas por mi estan basadas en las traducciones teologicas y gramaticales del griego, eslavo, latin y arabe.
                        > > > >>
                        > > > >> Es solo una sugerencia/explicacion, no un dogma de Fe.
                        > > > >>
                        > > > >>
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > ------------------------------------
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Post message: ustav@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > Subscribe: ustav-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > Unsubscribe: ustav-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > CONTACT LIST OWNER: ustav-owner@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > URL to archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ustav
                        > > > >
                        > > > > More ustav information and service texts:
                        > > > > http://www.orthodox.net/ustav
                        > > > > http://www.orthodox.net/services
                        > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > --
                        > > > Deacon Michael Bishop
                        > > > PO Box 23485
                        > > > Baltimore MD 21203-5485
                        > > > http://www.Michael-Bishop.com
                        > > >
                        > > > See you at the Russian Festival
                        > > > 15-17 October 2010
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • Jopi Harri
                        ... Very sadly, but to no great surprise, your production is coming through as gibberish when delivered by email. - Jopi Harri
                        Message 11 of 19 , Apr 11 5:47 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          On 12.4.2010 3:00, viatich1002 wrote:
                          > С чего бы �то такие непон�тные проблемки?

                          Very sadly, but to no great surprise, your production is coming
                          through as gibberish when delivered by email.

                          - Jopi Harri


                          > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "stephen_r1937" <stephen_r1937@...> wrote:
                          >> Under "Regional & Language Options"? I installed a bunch immediately I got Windows installed, including Cyrillic and Greek. The work fine in the word processor. But not long ago when I tried to include some Greek text in a message to this forum it was reduced to gibberish when displayed. Even vowels with acute accent are not treated right. The Spanish in my message comes out all right when read directly, but when quoted in a more recent message--just scroll down--even something as simple as the acute accent is turned into nonsense. Doremiguel's message below comes out as he entered it, but at the expense of omitting accents on words that should have them. And this is the simplest level of the problem. Greek or Cyrillic--it's a complete mess!
                          >>
                          >> Stephen
                          >>
                          >> --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "viatich1002" <innok63@> wrote:
                          >>>
                          >>> I have been using all those Windows alphabets that you need to add from the control panel and never had any problem with writing in whatever language I needed in any application I used.
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>> --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Deacon Michael Bishop <Photo@> wrote:
                          >>>> I concur with Stephen about the punctuation marks. Right now we are
                          >>>> extremely limited when it comes to foreign languages. I would love to
                          >>>> be able to install the operating system on my computer and immediately
                          >>>> active the Russian or Ukrainian alphabet for Americans and not for
                          >>>> Russians. Right now when I want to type a letter in Russian, I find it
                          >>>> is much easier for me to type it in WordPerfect and then use cut and
                          >>>> copy. It would be wonderful if I could type in Russian or French or
                          >>>> Greek in almost any program that I use.
                          >>>>
                          >>>> Deacon Michael
                          >>>>
                          >>>> stephen_r1937 wrote:
                          >>>>> Y tambi�n en ingl�s siempre decimos "Christ is risen" y no "Christ arose."
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> And this seems well established, even though the construction--using "to be" rather than "to have" as the auxiliary verb of a principle verb of motion--is pretty much obsolete in ordinary usage.
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> As for Yahoo and the punctuation marks, it is the limitation to the ASCII/ANSI repertory that is the problem. Only when finally Unicode is adopted as the standard will we be free from this nonsense.
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> !Ojal� que venga pronto! Then I can invert the opening exclamation point. Then I can send text in Greek, and in Slavonic without deforming it by using some new orthography.
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> Stephen
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "doremiguel" <eureka_msc_ortod@> wrote:
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>>>
                          >>>>>> There are theological as well as linguistics implications in the use (or misuse) of different translations. This is one of the greatest issues that occur while translating from the older texts of the Church's services. The fact that many dioceses/parishes use a wrong translation doesn't make that translation the true/correct one. This is widely seen in the translation of Kyrie Eleison, which in Spanish must be translated as Sen~or ten misericordia, but its wrongly translated as Sen~or ten piedad. Both this case as in the Xristos Anesti case the translations offered by me are based on the theological and grammatical translations from the Greek, Slavonic, Latin and Arabic.
                          >>>>>>
                          >>>>>> It is only a suggestion/explanation, not a dogma of Faith
                          >>>>>>
                          >>>>>>
                          >>>>>> Existen implicaciones teologicas al igual que linguisticas en el uso (o mal uso) de diferentes traducciones. Este es uno de los grandes problemas que ocurren cuando se traduce de los antiguos textos de los oficios de la Iglesia. El hecho que muchas diocesis/parroquias usen una traduccion equivocada no hace de esa traduccion la verdadera/correcta. Esto se observa extensamente en la traduccion de Kyrie Eleison, el cual en espan~ol debe ser traducido como Sen~or ten misericordia, pero es erroneamente traducido como Sen~or ten piedad. Tanto en este caso como en el de Xristos Anesti las traducciones ofrecidas por mi estan basadas en las traducciones teologicas y gramaticales del griego, eslavo, latin y arabe.
                          >>>>>>
                          >>>>>> Es solo una sugerencia/explicacion, no un dogma de Fe.
                        • Deacon Michael Bishop
                          My first reaction was that maybe viatich1002 is trying to make a point. Then I went to View, Character Encoding, and selected Unicode (UTF-8) and it came out
                          Message 12 of 19 , Apr 11 7:15 PM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            My first reaction was that maybe viatich1002 is trying to make a point.
                            Then I went to View, Character Encoding, and selected Unicode (UTF-8)
                            and it came out perfectly in Russian. Unfortunately my very elementary
                            Russian knowledge does not understand what he is saying. I do not know
                            how to translate the particle that he uses here. He might be asking
                            "why is this such an incomprehensible problem?"

                            Character Encoding happened to work for me this time, but often going to
                            Character Encoding just gives me another set of garbage. I'm using
                            Thunderbird for my e-mail client. I would not know what to do if I were
                            using another e-mail client.

                            I can type in Russian when I wish, but it is somewhat painful because
                            the keyboard arrangement is not convenient. For the "ch" sound I have
                            to use the +/= key. For the "v" sound I have to use the "w" key. This
                            keyboard is set for an American writing in Russian. If I tried to use
                            the original Micro$oft keyboard arrangement, it would take me much
                            longer since only two of the keys are equivalent to the American keyboard.

                            When I'm using anything other than WordPerfect, I do not know how to
                            type: ç, á, é, ï, ¿ ¡ etc. When typing in Greek in WordPerfect, I know
                            how to include the accent marks and breathing marks, but I do not know
                            how to do it when typing in any other software. For the examples given
                            here, I copied the letters from a WordPerfect document.

                            Deacon Michael



                            Jopi Harri wrote:
                            > On 12.4.2010 3:00, viatich1002 wrote:
                            >
                            >> С чего бы это такие непонятные проблемки?
                            >>
                            >
                            > Very sadly, but to no great surprise, your production is coming
                            > through as gibberish when delivered by email.
                            >
                            > - Jopi Harri
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >> --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "stephen_r1937" <stephen_r1937@...> wrote:
                            >>
                            >>> Under "Regional & Language Options"? I installed a bunch immediately I got Windows installed, including Cyrillic and Greek. The work fine in the word processor. But not long ago when I tried to include some Greek text in a message to this forum it was reduced to gibberish when displayed. Even vowels with acute accent are not treated right. The Spanish in my message comes out all right when read directly, but when quoted in a more recent message--just scroll down--even something as simple as the acute accent is turned into nonsense. Doremiguel's message below comes out as he entered it, but at the expense of omitting accents on words that should have them. And this is the simplest level of the problem. Greek or Cyrillic--it's a complete mess!
                            >>>
                            >>> Stephen
                            >>>
                            >>> --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "viatich1002" <innok63@> wrote:
                            >>>
                            >>>> I have been using all those Windows alphabets that you need to add from the control panel and never had any problem with writing in whatever language I needed in any application I used.
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>> --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Deacon Michael Bishop <Photo@> wrote:
                            >>>>
                            >>>>> I concur with Stephen about the punctuation marks. Right now we are
                            >>>>> extremely limited when it comes to foreign languages. I would love to
                            >>>>> be able to install the operating system on my computer and immediately
                            >>>>> active the Russian or Ukrainian alphabet for Americans and not for
                            >>>>> Russians. Right now when I want to type a letter in Russian, I find it
                            >>>>> is much easier for me to type it in WordPerfect and then use cut and
                            >>>>> copy. It would be wonderful if I could type in Russian or French or
                            >>>>> Greek in almost any program that I use.
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>> Deacon Michael
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>> stephen_r1937 wrote:
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>> Y tambi�n en ingl�s siempre decimos "Christ is risen" y no "Christ arose."
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>> And this seems well established, even though the construction--using "to be" rather than "to have" as the auxiliary verb of a principle verb of motion--is pretty much obsolete in ordinary usage.
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>> As for Yahoo and the punctuation marks, it is the limitation to the ASCII/ANSI repertory that is the problem. Only when finally Unicode is adopted as the standard will we be free from this nonsense.
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>> !Ojal� que venga pronto! Then I can invert the opening exclamation point. Then I can send text in Greek, and in Slavonic without deforming it by using some new orthography.
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>> Stephen
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>> --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "doremiguel" <eureka_msc_ortod@> wrote:
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>>> There are theological as well as linguistics implications in the use (or misuse) of different translations. This is one of the greatest issues that occur while translating from the older texts of the Church's services. The fact that many dioceses/parishes use a wrong translation doesn't make that translation the true/correct one. This is widely seen in the translation of Kyrie Eleison, which in Spanish must be translated as Sen~or ten misericordia, but its wrongly translated as Sen~or ten piedad. Both this case as in the Xristos Anesti case the translations offered by me are based on the theological and grammatical translations from the Greek, Slavonic, Latin and Arabic.
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>> It is only a suggestion/explanation, not a dogma of Faith
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>> Existen implicaciones teologicas al igual que linguisticas en el uso (o mal uso) de diferentes traducciones. Este es uno de los grandes problemas que ocurren cuando se traduce de los antiguos textos de los oficios de la Iglesia. El hecho que muchas diocesis/parroquias usen una traduccion equivocada no hace de esa traduccion la verdadera/correcta. Esto se observa extensamente en la traduccion de Kyrie Eleison, el cual en espan~ol debe ser traducido como Sen~or ten misericordia, pero es erroneamente traducido como Sen~or ten piedad. Tanto en este caso como en el de Xristos Anesti las traducciones ofrecidas por mi estan basadas en las traducciones teologicas y gramaticales del griego, eslavo, latin y arabe.
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>> Es solo una sugerencia/explicacion, no un dogma de Fe.
                            >>>>>>>
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            >
                            > Post message: ustav@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subscribe: ustav-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > Unsubscribe: ustav-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > CONTACT LIST OWNER: ustav-owner@yahoogroups.com
                            > URL to archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ustav
                            >
                            > More ustav information and service texts:
                            > http://www.orthodox.net/ustav
                            > http://www.orthodox.net/services
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >

                            --
                            Deacon Michael Bishop
                            PO Box 23485
                            Baltimore MD 21203-5485
                            http://www.Michael-Bishop.com

                            See you at the Russian Festival
                            15-17 October 2010
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