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Re:Tranfiguration-Chronologically...when did the event take place??

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  • Philip
    Dear Dn Sergius, The date of 6th August for the Transfiguration appears in the 1559 Book of Common Prayer
    Message 1 of 25 , Aug 11, 2009
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      Dear Dn Sergius,

      The date of 6th August for the Transfiguration appears in the 1559 Book of Common Prayer http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/1559/Kalendar_1559.htm#Almanac.

      In XC,

      Dn Philip

      --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Dn. Sergius Miller" <srbmillerr@...> wrote:
      >
      > Sear Stephen,
      >
      > The LBW has just previous to Ash Wednesday, The Transfiguration of the Lord, the Last Sunday afyer Epiphany. Remember there was no pre-Lent. The LW has the same. Of course, the Missouri services never had Aug. 6.
      >
      > The Sarum books did have the 6 Aug. No Book of Common Prayer had 6 Aug. until the American Book of 1892. The group of Prayer Books of the 1920s all added it to the calendar, oops, kalendar. No Prayer Book had a "last Sun. after" until the American 1979.
      >
      > DnS
      >
      >
      > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "stephen_r1937" <stephen_r1937@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Dn Sergius,
      > >
      > > Did they revert to last-Sunday-after-Epiphany-unless-there-is-only-one, or what?
      > >
      > > Maybe someone with better library resources can tell us about the history of the celebration of Transfiguration in the Book of Common Prayer. All I can come up with is the Canadian BCP of of 1959 (still "tradutional") and the American of 1977 (modernized), both of which have the Aug. 6th date. I expect that England did not have 6 August yet when Henry VIII broke with Rome, but I don't know--this would be a parallel case of a development in northern European , where there was no uniform practice in the 16th century.
      > >
      > > Stephen
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Dn. Sergius Miller" <srbmillerr@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Syephen,
      > > >
      > > > Yes, that is the Common Service rubric.
      > > >
      > > > The LBW of 1978 & the Missouri LW both eliminated the 6 Aug. celebration.
      > > >
      > > > DnS
      > > >
      > > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "stephen_r1937" <stephen_r1937@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > (A further note on Transfiguration among the Lutherans) I don't have access to the Common Service, but I am now looking at the Missouri Synod's _Lutheran Hymnal_ of 1941, the liturgical part of which is a knock-off of the Common Service. Nothing at all is prescribed for 6 August. On the Sixth Sunday after the Epiphany, there is this rubric:
      > > > >
      > > > > "The Introit, Collect Epistle, Gradual, and Gospel for the Transfiguration shall be used on the last Sunday after the Epiphany in each year, except when there is only one Sunday after the Epiphany." The texts and scriptural references that follow are indeed those of the Transfiguration. This is either the rubric from the Common Service verbatim or a revision of it, and shows that the rubric for 6 August that I quoted from the 1958 Service Book & Hymnal is that of the Common Service or as close as makes no difference. No propers are provided in SBH 1958 for the Sixth Sunday after Epiphany, but there is a rubric there too: "[pilcrow] For the Introit, Collect, Lesson, Epistle, Gradual, and Gospel, see The Transfiguration of Our Lord, p. 111 [for 6 August]. [pilcrow] The Propers for this Sunday may be used on the Last Sunday after The Epiphany, except when there is only one Sunday after the Epiphany."
      > > > >
      > > > > So on years when there are six Sundays after the Epiphany, Transfiguration is either omitted on 6 August or celebrated twice in the year? It strikes me as odd, but no doubt comes from a certain diffidence about shifting the Transfiguration from its accustomed day to 6 August. Hunyady János, where are you?
      > > > >
      > > > > Stephen
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Dn. Sergius Miller
      ... Yes, as a black letter day meaning it was disregarded liturgically. No propers for the day were supplied until the illegal book of 1928. DnS
      Message 2 of 25 , Aug 11, 2009
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        --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Philip" <mildert@...> wrote:


        Yes, as a black letter day meaning it was disregarded liturgically. No propers for the day were supplied until the illegal book of 1928.

        DnS


        > Dear Dn Sergius,
        >
        > The date of 6th August for the Transfiguration appears in the 1559 Book of Common Prayer http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/1559/Kalendar_1559.htm#Almanac.
        >
        > In XC,
        >
        > Dn Philip
        >
        > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Dn. Sergius Miller" <srbmillerr@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Sear Stephen,
        > >
        > > The LBW has just previous to Ash Wednesday, The Transfiguration of the Lord, the Last Sunday afyer Epiphany. Remember there was no pre-Lent. The LW has the same. Of course, the Missouri services never had Aug. 6.
        > >
        > > The Sarum books did have the 6 Aug. No Book of Common Prayer had 6 Aug. until the American Book of 1892. The group of Prayer Books of the 1920s all added it to the calendar, oops, kalendar. No Prayer Book had a "last Sun. after" until the American 1979.
        > >
        > > DnS
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "stephen_r1937" <stephen_r1937@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Dn Sergius,
        > > >
        > > > Did they revert to last-Sunday-after-Epiphany-unless-there-is-only-one, or what?
        > > >
        > > > Maybe someone with better library resources can tell us about the history of the celebration of Transfiguration in the Book of Common Prayer. All I can come up with is the Canadian BCP of of 1959 (still "tradutional") and the American of 1977 (modernized), both of which have the Aug. 6th date. I expect that England did not have 6 August yet when Henry VIII broke with Rome, but I don't know--this would be a parallel case of a development in northern European , where there was no uniform practice in the 16th century.
        > > >
        > > > Stephen
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Dn. Sergius Miller" <srbmillerr@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Syephen,
        > > > >
        > > > > Yes, that is the Common Service rubric.
        > > > >
        > > > > The LBW of 1978 & the Missouri LW both eliminated the 6 Aug. celebration.
        > > > >
        > > > > DnS
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "stephen_r1937" <stephen_r1937@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > (A further note on Transfiguration among the Lutherans) I don't have access to the Common Service, but I am now looking at the Missouri Synod's _Lutheran Hymnal_ of 1941, the liturgical part of which is a knock-off of the Common Service. Nothing at all is prescribed for 6 August. On the Sixth Sunday after the Epiphany, there is this rubric:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > "The Introit, Collect Epistle, Gradual, and Gospel for the Transfiguration shall be used on the last Sunday after the Epiphany in each year, except when there is only one Sunday after the Epiphany." The texts and scriptural references that follow are indeed those of the Transfiguration. This is either the rubric from the Common Service verbatim or a revision of it, and shows that the rubric for 6 August that I quoted from the 1958 Service Book & Hymnal is that of the Common Service or as close as makes no difference. No propers are provided in SBH 1958 for the Sixth Sunday after Epiphany, but there is a rubric there too: "[pilcrow] For the Introit, Collect, Lesson, Epistle, Gradual, and Gospel, see The Transfiguration of Our Lord, p. 111 [for 6 August]. [pilcrow] The Propers for this Sunday may be used on the Last Sunday after The Epiphany, except when there is only one Sunday after the Epiphany."
        > > > > >
        > > > > > So on years when there are six Sundays after the Epiphany, Transfiguration is either omitted on 6 August or celebrated twice in the year? It strikes me as odd, but no doubt comes from a certain diffidence about shifting the Transfiguration from its accustomed day to 6 August. Hunyady János, where are you?
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Stephen
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
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