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Re: [ustav] three Holy God vs two Holy Gods then Glory

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  • Fr_David Straut
    Dear Presbytera, As far as I know, there is no instance of a twofold repetition of the Holy God in the Eastern Orthodox Church. We sing or say Holy God, Holy
    Message 1 of 8 , Aug 16, 2008
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      Dear Presbytera,
      As far as I know, there is no instance of a twofold repetition of the Holy
      God in the Eastern Orthodox Church. We sing or say 'Holy God, Holy Mighty,
      Holy Immortal, have mercy on us' three times because of our belief in a
      Trinity of Persons in the Godhead.

      In Christ,

      Archpriest David Straut



      2008/8/16 presphotini <presphotini@...>

      > Could someone please again articulate for (both) arguments, the
      > theological correctedness of
      >
      > Three Holy God then the Glory to the Father
      >
      > vs
      >
      > Two Holy God then Glory to the Father.
      >
      > Thank you.
      >
      > In Christ,
      >
      > Photini
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Deacon Michael Bishop
      In Orthodoxy everything we do in in groups of three because in the Trinity there is one God in THREE Persons. You never say Lord, have mercy twice at the
      Message 2 of 8 , Aug 16, 2008
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        In Orthodoxy everything we do in in groups of three because in the
        Trinity there is one God in THREE Persons. You never say "Lord, have
        mercy" twice at the end of some petitions. You say it either once or
        three times.

        Deacon Michael

        presphotini wrote:
        > Could someone please again articulate for (both) arguments, the
        > theological correctedness of
        >
        > Three Holy God then the Glory to the Father
        >
        > vs
        >
        > Two Holy God then Glory to the Father.
        >
        > Thank you.
        >
        > In Christ,
        >
        > Photini
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        >
        > Post message: ustav@yahoogroups.com
        > Subscribe: ustav-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > Unsubscribe: ustav-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > CONTACT LIST OWNER: ustav-owner@yahoogroups.com
        > URL to archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ustav
        >
        > More ustav information and service texts:
        > http://www.orthodox.net/ustav
        > http://www.orthodox.net/services
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >

        --
        Deacon Michael Bishop
        PO Box 23485
        Baltimore MD 21213-5485
        http://www.Michael-Bishop.com

        See you at the Russian Festival
        17-19 October 2008
      • Fr. Seraphim
        I M WONDERING IF THE QUESTION REFERS TO THE WAY WE SING THE THREE-oops-sorry for caps-she may be referring to two Holy Gods, Glory, and partial, and then one
        Message 3 of 8 , Aug 16, 2008
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          I'M WONDERING IF THE QUESTION REFERS TO THE WAY WE SING THE THREE-oops-sorry
          for caps-she may be referring to two Holy Gods, Glory, and partial, and then
          one more full---as maybe opposed to saying the Holy God three times straight
          and then the Glory, which I've never heard in our Services.

          Fr. Seraphim Stephens



          _____

          From: ustav@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ustav@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          Deacon Michael Bishop
          Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 11:04 AM
          To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [ustav] three Holy God vs two Holy Gods then Glory



          In Orthodoxy everything we do in in groups of three because in the
          Trinity there is one God in THREE Persons. You never say "Lord, have
          mercy" twice at the end of some petitions. You say it either once or
          three times.

          Deacon Michael

          presphotini wrote:
          > Could someone please again articulate for (both) arguments, the
          > theological correctedness of
          >
          > Three Holy God then the Glory to the Father
          >
          > vs
          >
          > Two Holy God then Glory to the Father.
          >
          > Thank you.
          >
          > In Christ,
          >
          > Photini
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          >
          > Post message: ustav@yahoogroups. <mailto:ustav%40yahoogroups.com> com
          > Subscribe: ustav-subscribe@ <mailto:ustav-subscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
          yahoogroups.com
          > Unsubscribe: ustav-unsubscribe@
          <mailto:ustav-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
          > CONTACT LIST OWNER: ustav-owner@ <mailto:ustav-owner%40yahoogroups.com>
          yahoogroups.com
          > URL to archives: http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ustav>
          yahoo.com/group/ustav
          >
          > More ustav information and service texts:
          > http://www.orthodox <http://www.orthodox.net/ustav> .net/ustav
          > http://www.orthodox <http://www.orthodox.net/services> .net/services
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >

          --
          Deacon Michael Bishop
          PO Box 23485
          Baltimore MD 21213-5485
          http://www.Michael- <http://www.Michael-Bishop.com> Bishop.com

          See you at the Russian Festival
          17-19 October 2008





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Lewis Whitaker
          or twelve, or FOURTY times! :) Lew On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Deacon Michael Bishop
          Message 4 of 8 , Aug 16, 2008
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            or twelve, or FOURTY times! :)

            Lew

            On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Deacon Michael Bishop <
            Photo@...> wrote:

            > In Orthodoxy everything we do in in groups of three because in the
            > Trinity there is one God in THREE Persons. You never say "Lord, have
            > mercy" twice at the end of some petitions. You say it either once or
            > three times.
            >
            > Deacon Michael
            >
            > presphotini wrote:
            > > Could someone please again articulate for (both) arguments, the
            > > theological correctedness of
            > >
            > > Three Holy God then the Glory to the Father
            > >
            > > vs
            > >
            > > Two Holy God then Glory to the Father.
            > >
            > > Thank you.
            > >
            > > In Christ,
            > >
            > > Photini
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------
            > >
            > >
            > > Post message: ustav@yahoogroups.com <ustav%40yahoogroups.com>
            > > Subscribe: ustav-subscribe@yahoogroups.com<ustav-subscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
            > > Unsubscribe: ustav-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<ustav-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
            > > CONTACT LIST OWNER: ustav-owner@yahoogroups.com<ustav-owner%40yahoogroups.com>
            > > URL to archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ustav
            > >
            > > More ustav information and service texts:
            > > http://www.orthodox.net/ustav
            > > http://www.orthodox.net/services
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > --
            > Deacon Michael Bishop
            > PO Box 23485
            > Baltimore MD 21213-5485
            > http://www.Michael-Bishop.com
            >
            > See you at the Russian Festival
            > 17-19 October 2008
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Dn. Sergius Miller
            ... oops-sorry ... and then ... straight ... Dear Father, We do it 3 (not 2) times, then GNE, the partial, and once more. Dn. Sergius Miller
            Message 5 of 8 , Aug 16, 2008
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              --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. Seraphim" <fr.seraphim@...> wrote:
              >
              > I'M WONDERING IF THE QUESTION REFERS TO THE WAY WE SING THE THREE-
              oops-sorry
              > for caps-she may be referring to two Holy Gods, Glory, and partial,
              and then
              > one more full---as maybe opposed to saying the Holy God three times
              straight
              > and then the Glory, which I've never heard in our Services.
              >
              > Fr. Seraphim Stephens _____
              >

              Dear Father,

              We do it 3 (not 2) times, then GNE, the partial, and once more.

              Dn. Sergius Miller
            • Deacon Michael Bishop
              Deacon Sergius is absolutely correct. However, I used to belong to a parish which sang it twice instead of three times. In my mind, this is absolutely
              Message 6 of 8 , Aug 16, 2008
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                Deacon Sergius is absolutely correct. However, I used to belong to a
                parish which sang it twice instead of three times. In my mind, this is
                absolutely incorrect. I think that this same parish sang it only twice
                after the Great Doxology of Matins also.

                Maybe the issue is really that of repetition. In many of our feasts we
                repeat certain hymns and many parishes would do them only once. If the
                service is bilingual, they would do it in one language the first time
                and in the other language the second time.

                Singing Holy God only twice instead of three times might be the way that
                some parishes are dealing with repetition.

                Many parishes also skip most of or all of the Litany before the Lord's
                Prayer because it is a repetition of the Litany after the Great
                Entrance. Many parishes also skip the Litanies after the Gospel, most
                of which are repetition. But the prayers that the priest says are not
                repetition, but the people don't hear them any way and many service
                books do not print them.

                Deacon Michael

                Dn. Sergius Miller wrote:
                > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. Seraphim" <fr.seraphim@...> wrote:
                >
                >>I'M WONDERING IF THE QUESTION REFERS TO THE WAY WE SING THE THREE-
                >
                > oops-sorry
                >
                >>for caps-she may be referring to two Holy Gods, Glory, and partial,
                >
                > and then
                >
                >>one more full---as maybe opposed to saying the Holy God three times
                >
                > straight
                >
                >>and then the Glory, which I've never heard in our Services.
                >>
                >>Fr. Seraphim Stephens _____
                >>
                >
                >
                > Dear Father,
                >
                > We do it 3 (not 2) times, then GNE, the partial, and once more.
                >
                > Dn. Sergius Miller
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                >
                > Post message: ustav@yahoogroups.com
                > Subscribe: ustav-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > Unsubscribe: ustav-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > CONTACT LIST OWNER: ustav-owner@yahoogroups.com
                > URL to archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ustav
                >
                > More ustav information and service texts:
                > http://www.orthodox.net/ustav
                > http://www.orthodox.net/services
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >

                --
                Deacon Michael Bishop
                PO Box 23485
                Baltimore MD 21213-5485
                http://www.Michael-Bishop.com

                See you at the Russian Festival
                17-19 October 2008
              • Fr. Seraphim
                Sorry-we do it three times also-I must be missing a finger on my right hand! Fr. Seraphim _____ From: ustav@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ustav@yahoogroups.com] On
                Message 7 of 8 , Aug 16, 2008
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                  Sorry-we do it three times also-I must be missing a finger on my right hand!

                  Fr. Seraphim



                  _____

                  From: ustav@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ustav@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  Deacon Michael Bishop
                  Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:02 PM
                  To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [ustav] Re: three Holy God vs two Holy Gods then Glory



                  Deacon Sergius is absolutely correct. However, I used to belong to a
                  parish which sang it twice instead of three times. In my mind, this is
                  absolutely incorrect. I think that this same parish sang it only twice
                  after the Great Doxology of Matins also.

                  Maybe the issue is really that of repetition. In many of our feasts we
                  repeat certain hymns and many parishes would do them only once. If the
                  service is bilingual, they would do it in one language the first time
                  and in the other language the second time.

                  Singing Holy God only twice instead of three times might be the way that
                  some parishes are dealing with repetition.

                  Many parishes also skip most of or all of the Litany before the Lord's
                  Prayer because it is a repetition of the Litany after the Great
                  Entrance. Many parishes also skip the Litanies after the Gospel, most
                  of which are repetition. But the prayers that the priest says are not
                  repetition, but the people don't hear them any way and many service
                  books do not print them.

                  Deacon Michael

                  Dn. Sergius Miller wrote:
                  > --- In ustav@yahoogroups. <mailto:ustav%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Fr.
                  Seraphim" <fr.seraphim@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >>I'M WONDERING IF THE QUESTION REFERS TO THE WAY WE SING THE THREE-
                  >
                  > oops-sorry
                  >
                  >>for caps-she may be referring to two Holy Gods, Glory, and partial,
                  >
                  > and then
                  >
                  >>one more full---as maybe opposed to saying the Holy God three times
                  >
                  > straight
                  >
                  >>and then the Glory, which I've never heard in our Services.
                  >>
                  >>Fr. Seraphim Stephens _____
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  > Dear Father,
                  >
                  > We do it 3 (not 2) times, then GNE, the partial, and once more.
                  >
                  > Dn. Sergius Miller
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  >
                  > Post message: ustav@yahoogroups. <mailto:ustav%40yahoogroups.com> com
                  > Subscribe: ustav-subscribe@ <mailto:ustav-subscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
                  yahoogroups.com
                  > Unsubscribe: ustav-unsubscribe@
                  <mailto:ustav-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                  > CONTACT LIST OWNER: ustav-owner@ <mailto:ustav-owner%40yahoogroups.com>
                  yahoogroups.com
                  > URL to archives: http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ustav>
                  yahoo.com/group/ustav
                  >
                  > More ustav information and service texts:
                  > http://www.orthodox <http://www.orthodox.net/ustav> .net/ustav
                  > http://www.orthodox <http://www.orthodox.net/services> .net/services
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  --
                  Deacon Michael Bishop
                  PO Box 23485
                  Baltimore MD 21213-5485
                  http://www.Michael- <http://www.Michael-Bishop.com> Bishop.com

                  See you at the Russian Festival
                  17-19 October 2008





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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