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Re: [ustav] Re: All Saints of Britain

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  • frjsilver@optonline.net
    How is this to be understood? In ancient tradition, the only church founded by both Sts Peter and Paul is the church at Rome, highly respected for its
    Message 1 of 17 , Jun 23, 2008
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      How is this to be understood?

      In ancient tradition, the only church founded by both Sts Peter and Paul is the church at Rome, highly respected for its orthodoxy for half the christian centuries, but now so fallen..

      Monk James

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: James Morgan
      Date: Monday, June 23, 2008 6:53 pm
      Subject: [ustav] Re: All Saints of Britain
      To: ustav@yahoogroups.com

      > I notice that the Antiochian Archdiocese in the USA does not
      > serve the
      > feast of All Saints of America, but SS Peter and Paul along with the
      > Resurrectional material, they being the patrons of the Patriarchate.
      >
      > Rdr. James Morgan
      > Olympia, WA
      >
      > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John Whiteford"
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > For one, our Bishops have appointed that we celebrate all
      > saints of
      > Russia.
      > >
      > > For another, All the saints of America thus far have been saints
      > of the Russian Church... included St. Raphael Hawaweeny, and so are
      > included in that celebration.
      > >
      > > -Fr. John Whiteford
      > >
      > > frjsilver@... wrote:
      > > Why would we in North America not commemorate All Saints of North
      > America on the 2nd Sunday?!
      > >
      > > Monk James
      > >
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Fr. John Whiteford
      I suspect it is simply a matter of this coming Sunday being the feast of Ss. Peter and Paul on the New Calendar. That would seem to making doing the feast of
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 23, 2008
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        I suspect it is simply a matter of this coming Sunday being the feast of Ss. Peter and Paul on the New Calendar.

        That would seem to making doing the feast of all saints of America problematic for those on the New Calendar.

        -Fr. John Whiteford

        frjsilver@... wrote: How is this to be understood?

        In ancient tradition, the only church founded by both Sts Peter and Paul is the church at Rome, highly respected for its orthodoxy for half the christian centuries, but now so fallen..

        Monk James

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: James Morgan
        Date: Monday, June 23, 2008 6:53 pm
        Subject: [ustav] Re: All Saints of Britain
        To: ustav@yahoogroups.com

        > I notice that the Antiochian Archdiocese in the USA does not
        > serve the
        > feast of All Saints of America, but SS Peter and Paul along with the
        > Resurrectional material, they being the patrons of the Patriarchate.
        >
        > Rdr. James Morgan
        > Olympia, WA
        >
        > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John Whiteford"
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > For one, our Bishops have appointed that we celebrate all
        > saints of
        > Russia.
        > >
        > > For another, All the saints of America thus far have been saints
        > of the Russian Church... included St. Raphael Hawaweeny, and so are
        > included in that celebration.
        > >
        > > -Fr. John Whiteford
        > >
        > > frjsilver@... wrote:
        > > Why would we in North America not commemorate All Saints of North
        > America on the 2nd Sunday?!
        > >
        > > Monk James
        > >
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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        Fr. John Whiteford
        St. Jonah Orthodox Church
        Parish Home Page: http://www.saintjonah.org/
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      • Meg Lark
        On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 8:30 PM, Fr. John Whiteford ... [ml] Exactly right. Kissing your right hand, Meg Lark, unhappily in an NC parish -- óÌÁ×Á
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 24, 2008
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          On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 8:30 PM, Fr. John Whiteford
          <frjohnwhiteford@...> wrote:

          > I suspect it is simply a matter of this coming Sunday being the feast of Ss.
          > Peter and Paul on the New Calendar.
          >
          > That would seem to making doing the feast of all saints of America
          > problematic for those on the New Calendar.

          [ml] Exactly right.

          Kissing your right hand,
          Meg Lark, unhappily in an NC parish

          --
          Слава Богу за всё!
        • Dn. Sergius Miller
          ... feast of Ss. Peter and Paul on the New Calendar. ... problematic for those on the New Calendar. ... Yes, Fr. John, I agree. BUT for the OCA the Rubrics
          Message 4 of 17 , Jun 24, 2008
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            --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John Whiteford"
            <frjohnwhiteford@...> wrote:
            >
            > I suspect it is simply a matter of this coming Sunday being the
            feast of Ss. Peter and Paul on the New Calendar.
            >
            > That would seem to making doing the feast of all saints of America
            problematic for those on the New Calendar.
            >
            > -Fr. John Whiteford


            Yes, Fr. John, I agree. BUT for the OCA the Rubrics Book tries to
            combine the feast of Sts. Peter & Paul w/the Resurrection AND All
            Sts. of N.A. This is an absolutely infelicitous solution. All
            Saints of the North America should have been transferred to the
            following Sunday. It is afterall a very recent & somewhat moveable
            feast & of lesser rank than Sts. Peter & Paul which does have an
            afterfeast of one day, as do the two major feast days of St. John the
            Baptist.

            In XC,
            Dn. Sergius Miller
          • Peter Fekula
            I agree with Deacon Sergius.While in the Old Calendar the feast of Sts. Peter and Paul cannot fall as early as the 2nd Sunday after Pentecost, the Nativity
            Message 5 of 17 , Jun 24, 2008
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              I agree with Deacon Sergius.

              While in the Old Calendar the feast of Sts. Peter and Paul cannot fall as early as the 2nd Sunday after Pentecost, the Nativity of the Forerunner (June 24/July 7) can, and did in 2002. The ROCOR rubrics at the time directed that the commemoration of the Saints of Russia be moved to the following Sunday, 1/14 July (after the Apostles' Fast, for a change), so as not to displace or minimize the vigil-rank commemoration for the Forerunner..

              I'm not sure what was indicated in the Moscow Patriarchate's rubrics.

              Peter Fekula



              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Dn. Sergius Miller" [srbmillerr@...]
              Sent: 06/24/2008 07:19 PM GMT
              To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [ustav] Re: All Saints of Britain



              --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John Whiteford"
              <frjohnwhiteford@...> wrote:
              >
              > I suspect it is simply a matter of this coming Sunday being the
              feast of Ss. Peter and Paul on the New Calendar.
              >
              > That would seem to making doing the feast of all saints of America
              problematic for those on the New Calendar.
              >
              > -Fr. John Whiteford


              Yes, Fr. John, I agree. BUT for the OCA the Rubrics Book tries to
              combine the feast of Sts. Peter & Paul w/the Resurrection AND All
              Sts. of N.A. This is an absolutely infelicitous solution. All
              Saints of the North America should have been transferred to the
              following Sunday. It is afterall a very recent & somewhat moveable
              feast & of lesser rank than Sts. Peter & Paul which does have an
              afterfeast of one day, as do the two major feast days of St. John the
              Baptist.

              In XC,
              Dn. Sergius Miller






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            • WILLIAM BAUMGARTH
              The last time that this coincidence of feasts took place, when our cathedral parish combined the two set of liturgical texts as the St. Tykhon typikon
              Message 6 of 17 , Jun 25, 2008
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                The last time that this coincidence of feasts took place, when our
                cathedral parish combined the two set of liturgical texts as the St.
                Tykhon typikon stipulated (including two Apostol and Gospel readings), I
                recall Archbishop Peter, Memory Eternal, in tone of annoyance, explaining
                that the Feast of the Pre-eminent Apostles was the universal exaltation of
                them by the Church catholic, whereas the commemoration of All Saints of
                North America was a mere local celebration. No combination of liturgical
                texts was warranted in his view.
                Patrick

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Philosoph Uhlman
                I am hoping that someone could send me a copy of the usual setting of Memory Eternal in Russian. We are serving a funeral for one of the Older Russians in our
                Message 7 of 17 , Aug 2, 2008
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                  I am hoping that someone could send me a copy of the usual setting of
                  Memory Eternal in Russian. We are serving a funeral for one of the
                  Older Russians in our parish who just pasted away. I have tried looking
                  on the internet, but have had trouble with this probably due to my poor
                  Russian skills. We had always been able to sing this is Slavonic in the
                  past without music, but many of the members of our current choir don't
                  have experience singing any Slavonic, except Pascha - so we need the
                  music. If you can help I would really appreciate it.

                  Thank you.

                  Reader Philosoph Uhlman
                  St. Sophia
                  Victoria BC Canada
                • Cindy Williams
                  Dear Philosoph, I have a copy which I could fax to you -- we re in transition with our computers and I don t think we re set up right now to scan and e-mail
                  Message 8 of 17 , Aug 2, 2008
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                    Dear Philosoph,
                    I have a copy which I could fax to you -- we're in transition with our computers and I don't think we're set up right now to scan and e-mail this to you. My husband is already at church and I'll be leaving shortly for Vigil, but I'll check my e-mail when I get home in a few hours. If you send a fax number to me off-list (cktwms@...) I'll be happy to fax it. Otherwise, I can also check with my husband to see if we can scan it and send it as an attachment. Perhaps in a few hours someone else will already have responded, but if not I'll be happy to help if I can.
                    In Christ,
                    (Matushka)Cindy Williams
                    -- Philosoph Uhlman <philosoph@...> wrote:
                    I am hoping that someone could send me a copy of the usual setting of
                    Memory Eternal in Russian. We are serving a funeral for one of the
                    Older Russians in our parish who just pasted away. I have tried looking
                    on the internet, but have had trouble with this probably due to my poor
                    Russian skills. We had always been able to sing this is Slavonic in the
                    past without music, but many of the members of our current choir don't
                    have experience singing any Slavonic, except Pascha - so we need the
                    music. If you can help I would really appreciate it.

                    Thank you.

                    Reader Philosoph Uhlman
                    St. Sophia
                    Victoria BC Canada


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                  • Deacon Michael Bishop
                    I have also been trying to find it and I ran into the same problem that Philosoph experienced. In my Panikhida book, this is just about the only thing that I
                    Message 9 of 17 , Aug 2, 2008
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                      I have also been trying to find it and I ran into the same problem that
                      Philosoph experienced. In my Panikhida book, this is just about the
                      only thing that I am missing.

                      I need it in modern Russian letters. I do not do transliteration and I
                      have a difficult time reading the Old Cyrillic script. If you don't
                      mind, I can also send you my fax number off-list. My fax machine is not
                      set up to accept fax, but I think that I can correct that. I'm not
                      sure. I have not received a fax on it for over a year.

                      Thank you.

                      Deacon Michael

                      Cindy Williams wrote:
                      > Dear Philosoph,
                      > I have a copy which I could fax to you -- we're in transition with our computers and I don't think we're set up right now to scan and e-mail this to you. My husband is already at church and I'll be leaving shortly for Vigil, but I'll check my e-mail when I get home in a few hours. If you send a fax number to me off-list (cktwms@...) I'll be happy to fax it. Otherwise, I can also check with my husband to see if we can scan it and send it as an attachment. Perhaps in a few hours someone else will already have responded, but if not I'll be happy to help if I can.
                      > In Christ,
                      > (Matushka)Cindy Williams
                      > -- Philosoph Uhlman <philosoph@...> wrote:
                      > I am hoping that someone could send me a copy of the usual setting of
                      > Memory Eternal in Russian. We are serving a funeral for one of the
                      > Older Russians in our parish who just pasted away. I have tried looking
                      > on the internet, but have had trouble with this probably due to my poor
                      > Russian skills. We had always been able to sing this is Slavonic in the
                      > past without music, but many of the members of our current choir don't
                      > have experience singing any Slavonic, except Pascha - so we need the
                      > music. If you can help I would really appreciate it.
                      >
                      > Thank you.
                      >
                      > Reader Philosoph Uhlman
                      > St. Sophia
                      > Victoria BC Canada
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      >
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                      >
                      >
                      >
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                      >
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                      Deacon Michael Bishop
                      PO Box 23485
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                      See you at the Russian Festival
                      17-19 October 2008
                    • gregent@aol.com
                      In a message dated 8/2/2008 2:07:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, philosoph@shaw.ca writes: I am hoping that someone could send me a copy of the usual setting
                      Message 10 of 17 , Aug 2, 2008
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                        In a message dated 8/2/2008 2:07:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                        philosoph@... writes:

                        I am hoping that someone could send me a copy of the usual setting of
                        Memory Eternal in Russian.


                        _http://www.orthodoxia.org/music/pdf/panich3.pdf_
                        (http://www.orthodoxia.org/music/pdf/panich3.pdf)

                        Memory Eternal is on the last page.

                        Gregory Staples




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