Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [ustav] Pentecostarion Question

Expand Messages
  • Deacon Michael Bishop
    My understanding and experience is that from Pascha until Pentecost we do not sing or say O Heavenly King. In its place, we sing Christ is risen. We
    Message 1 of 5 , May 28, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      My understanding and experience is that from Pascha until Pentecost we
      do not sing or say "O Heavenly King." In its place, we sing "Christ is
      risen." We still do "O come, let us worship."

      Between Ascension and Pentecost, we sing the Troparion of the feast
      instead of "O Heavenly King," if I am not mistaken.

      The error has to do with "O come, let us worship."

      Deacon Michael


      Michel Englert wrote:
      > XB!
      >
      >
      >>In my copy of 'A Prayerbook for Orthodox Christians' by Holy
      >>Transfiguration
      >>Monastery published in 1987, on page 189 there is a rubric which states,
      >>
      >>And from the Holy and Great Sunday of Pascha until the giving up of Pascha
      >>on the eve of the Feast of Ascension, in place of Holy God, Holy Mighty,
      >>Holy Immortal. and O come, let us worship. we say, Christ is risen from the
      >>dead. (3)
      >>
      >>My parish priest in the GOA says that this may be in error and he has never
      >>head of that. I would like to know if it is in error, or is it some local
      >>tradition that this is based on.
      >
      >
      > I agree with your parish priest: this seems like an error and/or like a local
      > tradition.
      >
      > The usual (russian) tradition is to sing/read "Christ is risen..." at the
      > beginning of every service, that is:
      > 1) "Christ is risen..." instead of "O Heavenly King..." (at compline, evening &
      > morning prayers, midnight service, 3th hour, Divine Liturgy and 9th hour).
      > 2) "Christ is risen..." instead of "O come, let us worship..." (1st hour, 6th
      > hour and all kind of vespers).
      > 3) "Christ is risen..." added at the beginning of matins (that do not start
      > with "O Heavenly King..." or "O come, let us worship...")
      >
      > This means that:
      > a) "O Heavenly King..." is never read/sung in the period of Pasha while
      > b) "O come, let us worship..." is still read at compline, evening & morning
      > prayers, midnight service, 3th and 9th hour.
      >
      > I find that 2) is not very logic, I would not read/sing "Christ is risen..."
      > instead of "O come, let us worship...", but "Christ is risen..." and then "O
      > come, let us worship...". But I haven't invented the tradition... :-)
      >
      > Have a nice day,
      > Michel
      > (in Copenhagen, Denmark)
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      >
      > Post message: ustav@yahoogroups.com
      > Subscribe: ustav-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > Unsubscribe: ustav-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > CONTACT LIST OWNER: ustav-owner@yahoogroups.com
      > URL to archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ustav
      >
      > More ustav information and service texts:
      > http://www.orthodox.net/ustav
      > http://www.orthodox.net/services
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >

      --
      Deacon Michael Bishop
      PO Box 23485
      Baltimore MD 21213-5485
      http://www.Michael-Bishop.com

      See you at the Russian Festival
      17-19 October 2008
    • graham woolfenden
      As we will find on page 362 of this year s Bogosluzhebnye Ukazaniya (Moscow), After the exclamation, Blessed is our God... the Trisagion is read... -
      Message 2 of 5 , May 28, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        As we will find on page 362 of this year's Bogosluzhebnye Ukazaniya (Moscow), "After the exclamation, "Blessed is our God..." the Trisagion is read... " - nothing is said about the Troparion of the feast!

        To put it simply: "O come let us worship" is only used during Pascha at services that have a full beginning. From Ascension to Pentecost, 'O Heavenly King' is omitted wherever it would occur, and is not replaced by anything.

        Hegumen Gregory.




        ----- Original Message ----
        From: Deacon Michael Bishop <Photo@...>
        To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:00:08 AM
        Subject: Re: [ustav] Pentecostarion Question


        My understanding and experience is that from Pascha until Pentecost we
        do not sing or say "O Heavenly King." In its place, we sing "Christ is
        risen." We still do "O come, let us worship."

        Between Ascension and Pentecost, we sing the Troparion of the feast
        instead of "O Heavenly King," if I am not mistaken.

        The error has to do with "O come, let us worship."

        Deacon Michael

        Michel Englert wrote:
        > XB!
        >
        >
        >>In my copy of 'A Prayerbook for Orthodox Christians' by Holy
        >>Transfiguration
        >>Monastery published in 1987, on page 189 there is a rubric which states,
        >>
        >>And from the Holy and Great Sunday of Pascha until the giving up of Pascha
        >>on the eve of the Feast of Ascension, in place of Holy God, Holy Mighty,
        >>Holy Immortal. and O come, let us worship. we say, Christ is risen from the
        >>dead. (3)
        >>
        >>My parish priest in the GOA says that this may be in error and he has never
        >>head of that. I would like to know if it is in error, or is it some local
        >>tradition that this is based on.
        >
        >
        > I agree with your parish priest: this seems like an error and/or like a local
        > tradition.
        >
        > The usual (russian) tradition is to sing/read "Christ is risen..." at the
        > beginning of every service, that is:
        > 1) "Christ is risen..." instead of "O Heavenly King..." (at compline, evening &
        > morning prayers, midnight service, 3th hour, Divine Liturgy and 9th hour).
        > 2) "Christ is risen..." instead of "O come, let us worship..." (1st hour, 6th
        > hour and all kind of vespers).
        > 3) "Christ is risen..." added at the beginning of matins (that do not start
        > with "O Heavenly King..." or "O come, let us worship...")
        >
        > This means that:
        > a) "O Heavenly King..." is never read/sung in the period of Pasha while
        > b) "O come, let us worship..." is still read at compline, evening & morning
        > prayers, midnight service, 3th and 9th hour.
        >
        > I find that 2) is not very logic, I would not read/sing "Christ is risen..."
        > instead of "O come, let us worship...", but "Christ is risen..." and then "O
        > come, let us worship...". But I haven't invented the tradition... :-)
        >
        > Have a nice day,
        > Michel
        > (in Copenhagen, Denmark)
        >
        > ------------ --------- --------- ------
        >
        >
        > Post message: ustav@yahoogroups. com
        > Subscribe: ustav-subscribe@ yahoogroups. com
        > Unsubscribe: ustav-unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. com
        > CONTACT LIST OWNER: ustav-owner@ yahoogroups. com
        > URL to archives: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/ustav
        >
        > More ustav information and service texts:
        > http://www.orthodox .net/ustav
        > http://www.orthodox .net/services
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >

        --
        Deacon Michael Bishop
        PO Box 23485
        Baltimore MD 21213-5485
        http://www.Michael- Bishop.com

        See you at the Russian Festival
        17-19 October 2008


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Kyril Jenner
        ... From: Deacon Michael Bishop To: Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [ustav]
        Message 3 of 5 , May 28, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Deacon Michael Bishop" <Photo@...>
          To: <ustav@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 4:00 PM
          Subject: Re: [ustav] Pentecostarion Question


          > My understanding and experience is that from Pascha until Pentecost we
          > do not sing or say "O Heavenly King." In its place, we sing "Christ is
          > risen." We still do "O come, let us worship."
          >
          > Between Ascension and Pentecost, we sing the Troparion of the feast
          > instead of "O Heavenly King," if I am not mistaken.
          >

          According to the rubrics I have inherited the only place where the Troparion
          of the Ascension replaces "Heavenly King" is in the Priest's prayers
          immediately before the opening Blessing at Divine Liturgy. On "Soul
          Saturday" used the Troparion for the Departed ("With wisdom profound") at
          the same point.

          The same Troparia also replace "We have seen the true Light" after
          Communion.


          Archimandrite Kyril Jenner

          http://www.mynachdy-sant-elias.org.uk
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.