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Re: Holy Annunciation / Holy Saturday

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  • syd_reg
    This would be the only time when the Polyelos and the Magnification would be sung before the singing of Blessed art Thou . It seems to be like a step
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 1, 2007
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      This would be the only time when the Polyelos and the
      Magnification would be sung before the singing of "Blessed art
      Thou". It seems to be like a step backwards in the service. However
      in singing the Magnification only once there may be an element of
      shortening what will be quite a long service.

      Not to dare question the typikon! - but a more logical way (to me
      anyway)would be to sing the Polyelos straight after the
      Troparions, follow this by the Stasis, then the Magnification
      followed by "Blessed art Thou". I believe that the typikon requires
      that on Sunday vigils the 17th Kathisma would be sung all year and
      during winter (and some other times) the Polyelos would precede this
      and lengthen the service.

      The icon will probably have to be placed next to the plaschanitsa, or
      possibly in some parishes that have a tradition of covering the
      plaschanitsa with the coverings from the Holy Gifts and the Gospel it
      may be possible to lie the icon on the plaschanitsa itself (maybe
      covering Christ's feet).

      Is anyone considering any adjustments to the order prescribed in the
      typikon to make the service more manageable (read "shorter")?

      Nick

      --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "boulia_1" <eledkovsky@...> wrote:
      >
      > Father, (and I know that the more learned among us will correct me
      > and educate us all if I'm wrong): I believe that the censing at the
      > Magnification is not called for in this case since, as is customary
      > at the end of the Stasis at Great Saturday Matins, a full censing
      > occurs during the singing of the "Blessed art Thou, Lord, teach me
      > Thy statutes: The assembly of angels was amzed..." A second,
      > repeated ("povtornago") censing would be redundant.
      >
      > Now, it's curious... where will the festal icon be? The
      plaschanitsa
      > (winding shroud) will be out!!
      >
      >
      > --Elizabeth
      >
      >
      > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John Whiteford"
      > <frjohnwhiteford@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I am working my way through the rubrics for Holy Saturday /
      > > Annunciation this year, and at the Magnification (Velichaniye)
      the
      > > Jordanville rubrics say: "Byez povtornago kazhdenie khrama". (I
      am
      > > using to the Russian I typically encounter in the Jordanville
      > calendar,
      > > but when I come across an unusual rubric, I like to make sure I
      am
      > > reading it correctly).
      > >
      > > I am correct in taking this to mean that we do not cense the
      > Church,
      > > but just stand censing in front of the icon of the feast while
      > singing
      > > the Magnification? Also, in normal parish practice, when a feast
      > of
      > > the Theotokos falls on a Sunday, the Magnification is sung only
      > once by
      > > the clergy. Does the fact that the Jordanville Rubrics do not
      > provide
      > > a psalm verse here indicate that this would also be true on Holy
      > > Saturday?
      > >
      > > -Fr. John Whiteford
      > >
      >
    • boulia_1
      Nick -- I don t have books in front of me at the moment, but my recollection was that the polyelos came not before, as you wrote below, but AFTER the stasis,
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 1, 2007
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        Nick -- I don't have books in front of me at the moment, but my
        recollection was that the polyelos came not before, as you wrote
        below, but AFTER the stasis, which concludes with the singing
        of "Blessed art Thou..." Did you have a typo in your message?

        Remember that "Blessed art Thou" as we have it at usual Vigils is
        ordinarily prescribed for SUNDAY (Resurrectional) MATINS. I've
        actually never thought about it til now, but, like the prokimenon,
        this is another way in which the Great Saturday matins service leads
        us to the celebration of the resurrection, isn't it?

        --Elizabeth
        --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "syd_reg" <nkulikov@...> wrote:
        >
        > This would be the only time when the Polyelos and the
        > Magnification would be sung before the singing of "Blessed art
        > Thou". It seems to be like a step backwards in the service.
        However
        > in singing the Magnification only once there may be an element of
        > shortening what will be quite a long service.
        >
        > Not to dare question the typikon! - but a more logical way (to me
        > anyway)would be to sing the Polyelos straight after the
        > Troparions, follow this by the Stasis, then the Magnification
        > followed by "Blessed art Thou". I believe that the typikon
        requires
        > that on Sunday vigils the 17th Kathisma would be sung all year and
        > during winter (and some other times) the Polyelos would precede
        this
        > and lengthen the service.
        >
        > The icon will probably have to be placed next to the plaschanitsa,
        or
        > possibly in some parishes that have a tradition of covering the
        > plaschanitsa with the coverings from the Holy Gifts and the Gospel
        it
        > may be possible to lie the icon on the plaschanitsa itself (maybe
        > covering Christ's feet).
        >
        > Is anyone considering any adjustments to the order prescribed in
        the
        > typikon to make the service more manageable (read "shorter")?
        >
        > Nick
        >
        > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "boulia_1" <eledkovsky@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Father, (and I know that the more learned among us will correct
        me
        > > and educate us all if I'm wrong): I believe that the censing at
        the
        > > Magnification is not called for in this case since, as is
        customary
        > > at the end of the Stasis at Great Saturday Matins, a full censing
        > > occurs during the singing of the "Blessed art Thou, Lord, teach
        me
        > > Thy statutes: The assembly of angels was amzed..." A second,
        > > repeated ("povtornago") censing would be redundant.
        > >
        > > Now, it's curious... where will the festal icon be? The
        > plaschanitsa
        > > (winding shroud) will be out!!
        > >
        > >
        > > --Elizabeth
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John Whiteford"
        > > <frjohnwhiteford@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I am working my way through the rubrics for Holy Saturday /
        > > > Annunciation this year, and at the Magnification (Velichaniye)
        > the
        > > > Jordanville rubrics say: "Byez povtornago kazhdenie khrama".
        (I
        > am
        > > > using to the Russian I typically encounter in the Jordanville
        > > calendar,
        > > > but when I come across an unusual rubric, I like to make sure I
        > am
        > > > reading it correctly).
        > > >
        > > > I am correct in taking this to mean that we do not cense the
        > > Church,
        > > > but just stand censing in front of the icon of the feast while
        > > singing
        > > > the Magnification? Also, in normal parish practice, when a
        feast
        > > of
        > > > the Theotokos falls on a Sunday, the Magnification is sung only
        > > once by
        > > > the clergy. Does the fact that the Jordanville Rubrics do not
        > > provide
        > > > a psalm verse here indicate that this would also be true on
        Holy
        > > > Saturday?
        > > >
        > > > -Fr. John Whiteford
        > > >
        > >
        >
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