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Re: The Sunday Octoechos (Old Rite), was: Slavonic Tones in English

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  • Nikita Simmons
    Dear Fr. David, Kenneth, and others It is important to realize that the melodies used by the Church of the Nativity for stichera are Small Znamenny Chant,
    Message 1 of 14 , Feb 1, 2007
      Dear Fr. David, Kenneth, and others

      It is important to realize that the melodies used by the Church of the
      Nativity for stichera are Small Znamenny Chant, which, as far as I am
      aware, is not used as a complete system by the contemporary Russian
      Church. This is primarily because Small Znamenny is not generally
      harmonized. (I don't even know where I could lay my hands on a
      complete set of 8 Tones with 4-part harmony, and my collection is
      fairly large.)

      On the other hand, the CD produced by Fr. Seraphim contains melodies
      (and harmonization) of the familiar standard Kievan or "Obikhod" type
      of melodies you would encounter in the majority of Russian parishes.

      If depends on what your needs are, but either system is traditional
      and pleasant to listen to. Small Znamenny is excellent for mission
      parishes that may have a choir that numbers less than 4 parts, as it
      has enough melodic movement to make unison singing come off very well.
      The more contemporary "Obikhod" melodies sound very meager (and dull)
      when one is forced to sing them unison.

      Nikita

      --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Kenneth Doll" <dollpka@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear Fr. David,
      > Thank you for your feedback.
      > You mentioned the CD being instructional. I have the one Fr.
      > Seraphim used to sell so I am familiar with this type of CD.
      > Perhaps what would be worth doing first is purchasing a CD with more
      > of a liturgical style recording to get a feel for the Znammeny
      > chant. Do you (or anyone) have any suggestions? I would prefer to
      > start this exercise in English if possible.
      > There are some tapes and CDs at the Church of the Nativity web
      > bookstore, but it is not clear if any are Znammeny or in English.
      > In Christ,
      > Kenneth
      >
      > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Fr David Straut <frdavidstraut@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Dear Kenneth,
      > >
      > > I have purchased it. It's nicely produced, well translated. It
      > comes with a CD so you can hear what is written in both traditional
      > and western style notation. (The CD is a basic instructional-type CD,
      > not the type of liturgical music CD that we usually listen to for
      > pleasure). It's great to have a Sunday Octoechos in a hardcover
      > edition like this.
      > >
      > > I do not use it in church because we use Br Isaac's New Rite
      > Octoechos.
      > >
      > > If you're used to and like modern Russian harmonised chant, you'll
      > find the ancient Russian chant hard to get used to. I don't think it
      > will fly with your typical Russian choir. They like their familiar
      > polyphonic music.
      > >
      > > Archpriest David Straut
      > >
      > >
      > > Kenneth Doll <dollpka@> wrote:
      > Has anyone actually purchased this and used it? Any feedback?
      > > I would be interested, but at the suggested price, it would be
      > nice
      > > to know something about it before spending $100.
      > > Kenneth
      > >
      > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, philosoph <philosoph@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I think that the instructive tape is no longer available or in
      > > print, at
      > > > least such was the case when I made inquiry with one book store
      > a
      > > year
      > > > or two back. There does however exist the Sunday Octoechos of
      > > Hieromonk
      > > > German. I had been interested myself to acquire this for
      > various
      > > > reasons. Has anyone perhaps made use of this who might be
      > willing
      > > to
      > > > convey their experiences concerning the instructive CD
      > associated
      > > with it?
      > > >
      > > > This is the description given from www.skjp.org
      > > >
      > > > *The Sunday Octoechos (Old Rite)*
      > > > /tr. Hieromonk German Ciuba/
      > > > The Sunday Texts from the Old Rite Octoechos, in English,
      > followed
      > > by
      > > > annotations of the texts commonly sung, Old Rite notation on the
      > > left,
      > > > modern Western notation on the facing page. A complimentary
      > > > instructional CD of hymns using these Znammeny chants, adapted
      > and
      > > > chanted by Dcn. Mitrophan Simon, will be included at no cost as
      > > long as
      > > > supplies last.
      > > > Item# 3211. (DC: R) *Hard-Bound.* $100.00.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Reader Philosophos
      > > > Victoria, BC Canada
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------
      > > The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email
      > address from your Internet provider.
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
    • Kenneth Doll
      Dear Nikita, Thank you for your reply. As you have correctly observed, we do use the standard Kievan/ Obikhod type of melodies at my parish. I was looking
      Message 2 of 14 , Feb 1, 2007
        Dear Nikita,
        Thank you for your reply. As you have correctly observed, we do use
        the standard Kievan/"Obikhod" type of melodies at my parish.
        I was looking for something to use personally and only perhaps if we
        have small groups at church for some of the reasons you noted below.
        Regards,
        Kenneth

        --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Nikita Simmons" <starina77@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dear Fr. David, Kenneth, and others
        >
        > It is important to realize that the melodies used by the Church of
        the
        > Nativity for stichera are Small Znamenny Chant, which, as far as I
        am
        > aware, is not used as a complete system by the contemporary Russian
        > Church. This is primarily because Small Znamenny is not generally
        > harmonized. (I don't even know where I could lay my hands on a
        > complete set of 8 Tones with 4-part harmony, and my collection is
        > fairly large.)
        >
        > On the other hand, the CD produced by Fr. Seraphim contains melodies
        > (and harmonization) of the familiar standard Kievan or "Obikhod"
        type
        > of melodies you would encounter in the majority of Russian parishes.
        >
        > If depends on what your needs are, but either system is traditional
        > and pleasant to listen to. Small Znamenny is excellent for mission
        > parishes that may have a choir that numbers less than 4 parts, as it
        > has enough melodic movement to make unison singing come off very
        well.
        > The more contemporary "Obikhod" melodies sound very meager (and
        dull)
        > when one is forced to sing them unison.
        >
        > Nikita
        >
        > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Kenneth Doll" <dollpka@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Dear Fr. David,
        > > Thank you for your feedback.
        > > You mentioned the CD being instructional. I have the one Fr.
        > > Seraphim used to sell so I am familiar with this type of CD.
        > > Perhaps what would be worth doing first is purchasing a CD with
        more
        > > of a liturgical style recording to get a feel for the Znammeny
        > > chant. Do you (or anyone) have any suggestions? I would prefer
        to
        > > start this exercise in English if possible.
        > > There are some tapes and CDs at the Church of the Nativity web
        > > bookstore, but it is not clear if any are Znammeny or in English.
        > > In Christ,
        > > Kenneth
        > >
        > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Fr David Straut <frdavidstraut@>
        > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Dear Kenneth,
        > > >
        > > > I have purchased it. It's nicely produced, well translated. It
        > > comes with a CD so you can hear what is written in both
        traditional
        > > and western style notation. (The CD is a basic instructional-type
        CD,
        > > not the type of liturgical music CD that we usually listen to for
        > > pleasure). It's great to have a Sunday Octoechos in a hardcover
        > > edition like this.
        > > >
        > > > I do not use it in church because we use Br Isaac's New Rite
        > > Octoechos.
        > > >
        > > > If you're used to and like modern Russian harmonised chant,
        you'll
        > > find the ancient Russian chant hard to get used to. I don't think
        it
        > > will fly with your typical Russian choir. They like their
        familiar
        > > polyphonic music.
        > > >
        > > > Archpriest David Straut
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Kenneth Doll <dollpka@> wrote:
        > > Has anyone actually purchased this and used it? Any feedback?
        > > > I would be interested, but at the suggested price, it would be
        > > nice
        > > > to know something about it before spending $100.
        > > > Kenneth
        > > >
        > > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, philosoph <philosoph@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > I think that the instructive tape is no longer available or
        in
        > > > print, at
        > > > > least such was the case when I made inquiry with one book
        store
        > > a
        > > > year
        > > > > or two back. There does however exist the Sunday Octoechos
        of
        > > > Hieromonk
        > > > > German. I had been interested myself to acquire this for
        > > various
        > > > > reasons. Has anyone perhaps made use of this who might be
        > > willing
        > > > to
        > > > > convey their experiences concerning the instructive CD
        > > associated
        > > > with it?
        > > > >
        > > > > This is the description given from www.skjp.org
        > > > >
        > > > > *The Sunday Octoechos (Old Rite)*
        > > > > /tr. Hieromonk German Ciuba/
        > > > > The Sunday Texts from the Old Rite Octoechos, in English,
        > > followed
        > > > by
        > > > > annotations of the texts commonly sung, Old Rite notation on
        the
        > > > left,
        > > > > modern Western notation on the facing page. A complimentary
        > > > > instructional CD of hymns using these Znammeny chants,
        adapted
        > > and
        > > > > chanted by Dcn. Mitrophan Simon, will be included at no cost
        as
        > > > long as
        > > > > supplies last.
        > > > > Item# 3211. (DC: R) *Hard-Bound.* $100.00.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Reader Philosophos
        > > > > Victoria, BC Canada
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