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Re: The Sunday Octoechos (Old Rite), was: Slavonic Tones in English

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  • Kenneth Doll
    Dear Fr. David, Thank you for your feedback. You mentioned the CD being instructional. I have the one Fr. Seraphim used to sell so I am familiar with this
    Message 1 of 14 , Jan 31, 2007
      Dear Fr. David,
      Thank you for your feedback.
      You mentioned the CD being instructional. I have the one Fr.
      Seraphim used to sell so I am familiar with this type of CD.
      Perhaps what would be worth doing first is purchasing a CD with more
      of a liturgical style recording to get a feel for the Znammeny
      chant. Do you (or anyone) have any suggestions? I would prefer to
      start this exercise in English if possible.
      There are some tapes and CDs at the Church of the Nativity web
      bookstore, but it is not clear if any are Znammeny or in English.
      In Christ,
      Kenneth

      --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Fr David Straut <frdavidstraut@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Dear Kenneth,
      >
      > I have purchased it. It's nicely produced, well translated. It
      comes with a CD so you can hear what is written in both traditional
      and western style notation. (The CD is a basic instructional-type CD,
      not the type of liturgical music CD that we usually listen to for
      pleasure). It's great to have a Sunday Octoechos in a hardcover
      edition like this.
      >
      > I do not use it in church because we use Br Isaac's New Rite
      Octoechos.
      >
      > If you're used to and like modern Russian harmonised chant, you'll
      find the ancient Russian chant hard to get used to. I don't think it
      will fly with your typical Russian choir. They like their familiar
      polyphonic music.
      >
      > Archpriest David Straut
      >
      >
      > Kenneth Doll <dollpka@...> wrote:
      Has anyone actually purchased this and used it? Any feedback?
      > I would be interested, but at the suggested price, it would be
      nice
      > to know something about it before spending $100.
      > Kenneth
      >
      > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, philosoph <philosoph@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I think that the instructive tape is no longer available or in
      > print, at
      > > least such was the case when I made inquiry with one book store
      a
      > year
      > > or two back. There does however exist the Sunday Octoechos of
      > Hieromonk
      > > German. I had been interested myself to acquire this for
      various
      > > reasons. Has anyone perhaps made use of this who might be
      willing
      > to
      > > convey their experiences concerning the instructive CD
      associated
      > with it?
      > >
      > > This is the description given from www.skjp.org
      > >
      > > *The Sunday Octoechos (Old Rite)*
      > > /tr. Hieromonk German Ciuba/
      > > The Sunday Texts from the Old Rite Octoechos, in English,
      followed
      > by
      > > annotations of the texts commonly sung, Old Rite notation on the
      > left,
      > > modern Western notation on the facing page. A complimentary
      > > instructional CD of hymns using these Znammeny chants, adapted
      and
      > > chanted by Dcn. Mitrophan Simon, will be included at no cost as
      > long as
      > > supplies last.
      > > Item# 3211. (DC: R) *Hard-Bound.* $100.00.
      > >
      > >
      > > Reader Philosophos
      > > Victoria, BC Canada
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email
      address from your Internet provider.
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Nikita Simmons
      Dear Fr. David, Kenneth, and others It is important to realize that the melodies used by the Church of the Nativity for stichera are Small Znamenny Chant,
      Message 2 of 14 , Feb 1, 2007
        Dear Fr. David, Kenneth, and others

        It is important to realize that the melodies used by the Church of the
        Nativity for stichera are Small Znamenny Chant, which, as far as I am
        aware, is not used as a complete system by the contemporary Russian
        Church. This is primarily because Small Znamenny is not generally
        harmonized. (I don't even know where I could lay my hands on a
        complete set of 8 Tones with 4-part harmony, and my collection is
        fairly large.)

        On the other hand, the CD produced by Fr. Seraphim contains melodies
        (and harmonization) of the familiar standard Kievan or "Obikhod" type
        of melodies you would encounter in the majority of Russian parishes.

        If depends on what your needs are, but either system is traditional
        and pleasant to listen to. Small Znamenny is excellent for mission
        parishes that may have a choir that numbers less than 4 parts, as it
        has enough melodic movement to make unison singing come off very well.
        The more contemporary "Obikhod" melodies sound very meager (and dull)
        when one is forced to sing them unison.

        Nikita

        --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Kenneth Doll" <dollpka@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dear Fr. David,
        > Thank you for your feedback.
        > You mentioned the CD being instructional. I have the one Fr.
        > Seraphim used to sell so I am familiar with this type of CD.
        > Perhaps what would be worth doing first is purchasing a CD with more
        > of a liturgical style recording to get a feel for the Znammeny
        > chant. Do you (or anyone) have any suggestions? I would prefer to
        > start this exercise in English if possible.
        > There are some tapes and CDs at the Church of the Nativity web
        > bookstore, but it is not clear if any are Znammeny or in English.
        > In Christ,
        > Kenneth
        >
        > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Fr David Straut <frdavidstraut@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > Dear Kenneth,
        > >
        > > I have purchased it. It's nicely produced, well translated. It
        > comes with a CD so you can hear what is written in both traditional
        > and western style notation. (The CD is a basic instructional-type CD,
        > not the type of liturgical music CD that we usually listen to for
        > pleasure). It's great to have a Sunday Octoechos in a hardcover
        > edition like this.
        > >
        > > I do not use it in church because we use Br Isaac's New Rite
        > Octoechos.
        > >
        > > If you're used to and like modern Russian harmonised chant, you'll
        > find the ancient Russian chant hard to get used to. I don't think it
        > will fly with your typical Russian choir. They like their familiar
        > polyphonic music.
        > >
        > > Archpriest David Straut
        > >
        > >
        > > Kenneth Doll <dollpka@> wrote:
        > Has anyone actually purchased this and used it? Any feedback?
        > > I would be interested, but at the suggested price, it would be
        > nice
        > > to know something about it before spending $100.
        > > Kenneth
        > >
        > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, philosoph <philosoph@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I think that the instructive tape is no longer available or in
        > > print, at
        > > > least such was the case when I made inquiry with one book store
        > a
        > > year
        > > > or two back. There does however exist the Sunday Octoechos of
        > > Hieromonk
        > > > German. I had been interested myself to acquire this for
        > various
        > > > reasons. Has anyone perhaps made use of this who might be
        > willing
        > > to
        > > > convey their experiences concerning the instructive CD
        > associated
        > > with it?
        > > >
        > > > This is the description given from www.skjp.org
        > > >
        > > > *The Sunday Octoechos (Old Rite)*
        > > > /tr. Hieromonk German Ciuba/
        > > > The Sunday Texts from the Old Rite Octoechos, in English,
        > followed
        > > by
        > > > annotations of the texts commonly sung, Old Rite notation on the
        > > left,
        > > > modern Western notation on the facing page. A complimentary
        > > > instructional CD of hymns using these Znammeny chants, adapted
        > and
        > > > chanted by Dcn. Mitrophan Simon, will be included at no cost as
        > > long as
        > > > supplies last.
        > > > Item# 3211. (DC: R) *Hard-Bound.* $100.00.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Reader Philosophos
        > > > Victoria, BC Canada
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ---------------------------------
        > > The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email
        > address from your Internet provider.
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
      • Kenneth Doll
        Dear Nikita, Thank you for your reply. As you have correctly observed, we do use the standard Kievan/ Obikhod type of melodies at my parish. I was looking
        Message 3 of 14 , Feb 1, 2007
          Dear Nikita,
          Thank you for your reply. As you have correctly observed, we do use
          the standard Kievan/"Obikhod" type of melodies at my parish.
          I was looking for something to use personally and only perhaps if we
          have small groups at church for some of the reasons you noted below.
          Regards,
          Kenneth

          --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Nikita Simmons" <starina77@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dear Fr. David, Kenneth, and others
          >
          > It is important to realize that the melodies used by the Church of
          the
          > Nativity for stichera are Small Znamenny Chant, which, as far as I
          am
          > aware, is not used as a complete system by the contemporary Russian
          > Church. This is primarily because Small Znamenny is not generally
          > harmonized. (I don't even know where I could lay my hands on a
          > complete set of 8 Tones with 4-part harmony, and my collection is
          > fairly large.)
          >
          > On the other hand, the CD produced by Fr. Seraphim contains melodies
          > (and harmonization) of the familiar standard Kievan or "Obikhod"
          type
          > of melodies you would encounter in the majority of Russian parishes.
          >
          > If depends on what your needs are, but either system is traditional
          > and pleasant to listen to. Small Znamenny is excellent for mission
          > parishes that may have a choir that numbers less than 4 parts, as it
          > has enough melodic movement to make unison singing come off very
          well.
          > The more contemporary "Obikhod" melodies sound very meager (and
          dull)
          > when one is forced to sing them unison.
          >
          > Nikita
          >
          > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Kenneth Doll" <dollpka@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Dear Fr. David,
          > > Thank you for your feedback.
          > > You mentioned the CD being instructional. I have the one Fr.
          > > Seraphim used to sell so I am familiar with this type of CD.
          > > Perhaps what would be worth doing first is purchasing a CD with
          more
          > > of a liturgical style recording to get a feel for the Znammeny
          > > chant. Do you (or anyone) have any suggestions? I would prefer
          to
          > > start this exercise in English if possible.
          > > There are some tapes and CDs at the Church of the Nativity web
          > > bookstore, but it is not clear if any are Znammeny or in English.
          > > In Christ,
          > > Kenneth
          > >
          > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Fr David Straut <frdavidstraut@>
          > > wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Dear Kenneth,
          > > >
          > > > I have purchased it. It's nicely produced, well translated. It
          > > comes with a CD so you can hear what is written in both
          traditional
          > > and western style notation. (The CD is a basic instructional-type
          CD,
          > > not the type of liturgical music CD that we usually listen to for
          > > pleasure). It's great to have a Sunday Octoechos in a hardcover
          > > edition like this.
          > > >
          > > > I do not use it in church because we use Br Isaac's New Rite
          > > Octoechos.
          > > >
          > > > If you're used to and like modern Russian harmonised chant,
          you'll
          > > find the ancient Russian chant hard to get used to. I don't think
          it
          > > will fly with your typical Russian choir. They like their
          familiar
          > > polyphonic music.
          > > >
          > > > Archpriest David Straut
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Kenneth Doll <dollpka@> wrote:
          > > Has anyone actually purchased this and used it? Any feedback?
          > > > I would be interested, but at the suggested price, it would be
          > > nice
          > > > to know something about it before spending $100.
          > > > Kenneth
          > > >
          > > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, philosoph <philosoph@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > I think that the instructive tape is no longer available or
          in
          > > > print, at
          > > > > least such was the case when I made inquiry with one book
          store
          > > a
          > > > year
          > > > > or two back. There does however exist the Sunday Octoechos
          of
          > > > Hieromonk
          > > > > German. I had been interested myself to acquire this for
          > > various
          > > > > reasons. Has anyone perhaps made use of this who might be
          > > willing
          > > > to
          > > > > convey their experiences concerning the instructive CD
          > > associated
          > > > with it?
          > > > >
          > > > > This is the description given from www.skjp.org
          > > > >
          > > > > *The Sunday Octoechos (Old Rite)*
          > > > > /tr. Hieromonk German Ciuba/
          > > > > The Sunday Texts from the Old Rite Octoechos, in English,
          > > followed
          > > > by
          > > > > annotations of the texts commonly sung, Old Rite notation on
          the
          > > > left,
          > > > > modern Western notation on the facing page. A complimentary
          > > > > instructional CD of hymns using these Znammeny chants,
          adapted
          > > and
          > > > > chanted by Dcn. Mitrophan Simon, will be included at no cost
          as
          > > > long as
          > > > > supplies last.
          > > > > Item# 3211. (DC: R) *Hard-Bound.* $100.00.
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Reader Philosophos
          > > > > Victoria, BC Canada
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