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More cross-referencing

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  • hmkzosimas
    From the Theotokia following Doxasticon packet (SJKP), Tone I, Tuesday Matins: The harlot, the prodigal and the thief have I surpassed, and the publican and
    Message 1 of 3 , Oct 12, 2006
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      From the "Theotokia following Doxasticon" packet (SJKP), Tone I, Tuesday Matins:

      The harlot, the prodigal and the thief have I surpassed, and the publican and the Ninevites
      have I excelled in transgressions. Woe is me! What shall I do? How shall I escape torment,
      wretch that I am? O pure one, I fall down before thee: take pity on me in thy mercy, as thy
      Son saved those others!

      The same Theotokion from the Tone I Octoechos (SJKP), Tuesday Matins Aposticha:

      I have surpassed the harlot and the prodigal,/ I have done worse things than the thief/
      and have exceeded the publican and the Ninevites in transgressions./ What shall I do?
      How shall I, the accursed one, avoid torment?/ O pure one, I fall down before thee,
      crying:// Have pity on me in thy mercy as thy Son once saved them.

      Which of these is more accurate; is there another translation more accurate than these?


      Also, from the "Theotokia following Doxasticon" packet (SJKP), Tone I, Wednesday Evening,
      the first line reads:

      Rejoice, O Virgin, thou joy of the forefathers,

      In the Octoechos, Wednesday Evening Vespers Aposticha it reads:

      Rejoice thou joy of thine ancestors,

      Does the "O Virgin" part belong there?


      I check a lot of this stuff on line at Fr. Leo Schefe's site, www.tcgalaska.com/glt, which
      contains basically all the Menaion and Octoechos etc. in Greek, but the Greek apparently
      doesn't always correspond with the Slavonic, and I have no access to the Slavonic (unless
      someone knows of a handy website that I'm not aware of). Thank you in advance for your
      help.
    • Kyril Jenner
      ... From: hmkzosimas To: Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 8:29 PM Subject: [ustav] More cross-referencing
      Message 2 of 3 , Oct 12, 2006
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        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "hmkzosimas" <HieromonkZosimas@...>
        To: <ustav@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 8:29 PM
        Subject: [ustav] More cross-referencing


        > From the "Theotokia following Doxasticon" packet (SJKP), Tone I, Tuesday
        > Matins:
        >
        > The harlot, the prodigal and the thief have I surpassed, and the publican
        > and the Ninevites
        > have I excelled in transgressions. Woe is me! What shall I do? How shall I
        > escape torment,
        > wretch that I am? O pure one, I fall down before thee: take pity on me in
        > thy mercy, as thy
        > Son saved those others!
        >
        > The same Theotokion from the Tone I Octoechos (SJKP), Tuesday Matins
        > Aposticha:
        >
        > I have surpassed the harlot and the prodigal,/ I have done worse things
        > than the thief/
        > and have exceeded the publican and the Ninevites in transgressions./ What
        > shall I do?
        > How shall I, the accursed one, avoid torment?/ O pure one, I fall down
        > before thee,
        > crying:// Have pity on me in thy mercy as thy Son once saved them.
        >
        > Which of these is more accurate; is there another translation more
        > accurate than these?
        >

        The first of these two seems to be the better.

        >
        > Also, from the "Theotokia following Doxasticon" packet (SJKP), Tone I,
        > Wednesday Evening,
        > the first line reads:
        >
        > Rejoice, O Virgin, thou joy of the forefathers,
        >
        > In the Octoechos, Wednesday Evening Vespers Aposticha it reads:
        >
        > Rejoice thou joy of thine ancestors,
        >
        > Does the "O Virgin" part belong there?

        No. That seems to have crept in from the Theotokion of Thursday Mattins.


        >
        >
        > I check a lot of this stuff on line at Fr. Leo Schefe's site,
        > www.tcgalaska.com/glt, which
        > contains basically all the Menaion and Octoechos etc. in Greek, but the
        > Greek apparently
        > doesn't always correspond with the Slavonic, and I have no access to the
        > Slavonic (unless
        > someone knows of a handy website that I'm not aware of). Thank you in
        > advance for your
        > help.
        >
        >

        There is quite a lot of Slavonic material at
        http://www.liturgy.ru/docs/docs_all/graphics.php . Not a complete Menaion
        (only selected major and minor feasts), but most other things.

        Archimandrite Kyril Jenner
      • William J. Churchill
        ... www.tcgalaska.com/glt, which ... the Greek apparently ... the Slavonic (unless ... in advance for your ... Try http://orthlib.billchurchill.com ~BC
        Message 3 of 3 , Oct 13, 2006
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          --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "hmkzosimas" <HieromonkZosimas@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > I check a lot of this stuff on line at Fr. Leo Schefe's site,
          www.tcgalaska.com/glt, which
          > contains basically all the Menaion and Octoechos etc. in Greek, but
          the Greek apparently
          > doesn't always correspond with the Slavonic, and I have no access to
          the Slavonic (unless
          > someone knows of a handy website that I'm not aware of). Thank you
          in advance for your
          > help.
          >

          Try http://orthlib.billchurchill.com

          ~BC
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