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Re: [ustav] re: Granny was right

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  • Anna Voellmecke
    ... The features you describe are certainly wrong, since they are not features of Standard American English. However, are these people using a speaking voice
    Message 1 of 8 , Aug 9, 2006
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      At 09:05 AM 8/9/2006, you wrote:

      >We have a small group of people in our
      >parish who read and sing with a highly affectatious pronunciation.

      The features you describe are certainly wrong, since they are not
      features of Standard American English. However, are these people
      using a speaking voice when making these obnoxious sounds, or
      chanting recto tono, as is proper? I would think doing the latter
      would be less likely to bring out these weird affectations

      Anna V.
    • Philip Silouan Thompson
      ... Are these the same people who speak with a general American accent but pronounce God as Goahd ? ( Gord if you drop the R) Between that and the anomalous
      Message 2 of 8 , Aug 9, 2006
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        Don Hackenberry wrote:
        > We have a small group of people in our
        > parish who read and sing with a highly affectatious pronunciation. It
        > seriously detracts from comprehension of what is being read. To me, the
        > most obnoxious feature is the trilled "r"s.

        Are these the same people who speak with a general American accent but
        pronounce God as"Goahd"? ("Gord" if you drop the R) Between that and
        the anomalous Italian R's, I've always wondered why some seminaries
        teach people it's reverent to speak with a fake foreign accent.

        Silouan
      • Maria Armstrong
        Maybe Madeleine Marshall s book (The singer s guide to English diction) would help them? ;-) Very good book for English diction when singing. But then, if they
        Message 3 of 8 , Aug 9, 2006
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          Maybe Madeleine Marshall's book (The singer's guide to English diction)
          would help them? ;-) Very good book for English diction when singing.
          But then, if they know it all, why read a book, right?
          maria.

          On Wed, 9 Aug 2006 10:05:17 -0400 "Don Hackenberry"
          <donhackenberry@...> writes:
          > Dear Fr John and All,
          >
          > Thank you very much for mentioning "victuals". Lo, the Random
          > House
          > Dictionary also says it's "vittles". We have a small group of
          > people in our
          > parish who read and sing with a highly affectatious pronunciation.
          > It
          > seriously detracts from comprehension of what is being read. To me,
          > the
          > most obnoxious feature is the trilled "r"s. Now, if you were born
          > in
          > Scotland it's your birthright, but you have a range of other speech
          > characteristics which it blends in nicely with. And if your
          > language is a
          > Slavic one, that's the right way to pronounce an "r". But if
          > you're
          > speaking English on the North American continent, it isn't. There
          > is
          > another reason to avoid affectation besides comprehension: the
          > content of
          > the reading is truth and reality, but the affectation suggests to
          > the hearer
          > that it is as phony as the pronunciation. These people are under
          > the thumb
          > of a "he who knows it all can learn nothing" person.
          >
          > There, I've been wanting to ventilate about that for a long
          > time. Thank
          > you for moving me to do it.
          >
          > Best,
          > v
        • James Morgan
          Thank you for sharing, Don! I hope you feel better now..... Then there s the unto ay-jawz of ay-jawz school of clerical mispronunciation.... Jim of
          Message 4 of 8 , Aug 9, 2006
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            Thank you for sharing, Don! I hope you feel better now.....

            Then there's the "unto ay-jawz of ay-jawz' school of clerical
            mispronunciation....

            Jim of Olym,wearing his silly hat. Strange things can happen when clergy
            concelebrate.

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Maria Armstrong
            Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:27 AM
            To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [ustav] re: Granny was right

            Maybe Madeleine Marshall's book (The singer's guide to English diction)
            would help them? ;-) Very good book for English diction when singing. But
            then, if they know it all, why read a book, right?
            maria.

            On Wed, 9 Aug 2006 10:05:17 -0400 "Don Hackenberry"
            <donhackenberry@...> writes:
            > Dear Fr John and All,
            >
            > Thank you very much for mentioning "victuals". Lo, the Random
            > House Dictionary also says it's "vittles". We have a small group of
            > people in our parish who read and sing with a highly affectatious
            pronunciation.
            > It seriously detracts from comprehension of what is being read. To me,
            the
            > most obnoxious feature is the trilled "r"s. Now, if you were born in
            > Scotland it's your birthright, but you have a range of other speech
            > characteristics which it blends in nicely with. And if your language is
            a
            > Slavic one, that's the right way to pronounce an "r". But if you're
            > speaking English on the North American continent, it isn't. There
            > is another reason to avoid affectation besides comprehension: the
            > content of the reading is truth and reality, but the affectation suggests
            to
            > the hearer that it is as phony as the pronunciation. These people are
            under
            > the thumb of a "he who knows it all can learn nothing" person.
            >
            > There, I've been wanting to ventilate about that for a long
            > time. Thank you for moving me to do it.
            >
            > Best,
          • Don Hackenberry
            Dear All, One area where I gained insight from you is that it s an Italian r they re emulating, not a Scottish or Slavic one. (And one of these persons
            Message 5 of 8 , Aug 9, 2006
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              Dear All,

              One area where I gained insight from you is that it's an Italian "r"
              they're emulating, not a Scottish or Slavic one. (And one of these persons
              wouldn't be caught dead with Bortnyansky, and Bortnyansky wouldn't be caught
              dead with him.)

              Jim, I will feel better until about half a week from now. When I hear
              records in Slavonic, I never hear anything comparable to this. Does it
              happen, and my non-native ears don't pick it up, or does it not happen?

              Best,

              Don
            • James Morgan
              Don, you should have been at the PSALM conference. 200 voices all singing O Heavenly King in English, using the same words, in at least 5 or 6 part harmony!
              Message 6 of 8 , Aug 9, 2006
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                Don, you should have been at the PSALM conference. 200 voices all singing O
                Heavenly King in English, using the same words, in at least 5 or 6 part
                harmony! And I heard no arguments over Ye vs You or Thee, or over Znamenny
                vs Prostopenie etc. It was remarkably calm, but we all agreed that we need
                unity and that it can come from the kliros. One naughty person suggested
                privately that if all the hierarchs were herded into a suite with no
                bathroom privileges for about 8 hours, they would find unity.....

                Yours for the 'r' sound, whether Italian, Russian or Scottish, as long as
                everyone does it the same way! Ah, the unity of the rrrrrrrrr!

                Rdr. James
                Olympia, WA

                -----Original Message-----
                From: ustav@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ustav@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don
                Hackenberry
                Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 7:13 PM
                To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [ustav] re: Granny was right

                Dear All,

                One area where I gained insight from you is that it's an Italian "r"
                they're emulating, not a Scottish or Slavic one. (And one of these persons
                wouldn't be caught dead with Bortnyansky, and Bortnyansky wouldn't be caught
                dead with him.)

                Jim, I will feel better until about half a week from now. When I hear
                records in Slavonic, I never hear anything comparable to this. Does it
                happen, and my non-native ears don't pick it up, or does it not happen?

                Best,

                Don
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