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Re: [ustav] May a Deacon give Communion in the absence of a Priest?

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  • ieromonaco Gabriele
    Christ is Risen this is now off topic, and I fear that such a thread, as it is coming out, could cause an avalanche of vetriolic messages that do no good to
    Message 1 of 35 , May 3, 2006
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      Christ is Risen

      this is now off topic, and I fear that such a thread, as it is coming out,
      could cause an avalanche of vetriolic messages that do no good to anybody
      and for sure harm the Church (whatever your Church is). So I ask: would the
      reverend fathers (whose comments on many topics caught my interest, and won
      my gratitude) keep it private?
      thanks in advance

      in the Risen Lord
      hmnk Gabriele (who has no time for fights)

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <frjsilver@...>
      To: <ustav@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 1:37 AM
      Subject: Re: [ustav] May a Deacon give Communion in the absence of a Priest?


      > Dear Friends --
      >
      > I repeat what I wrote to you earlier: no OCA bishop has ever blessed a
      > 'deacon to serve liturgy as a priest'. It hasn't happened, can't happen,
      > won't ever happen.
      >
      > Fr Kirill remains misinformed.
      >
      > Peace and blessings of the Lord's resurrection to all.
      >
      > Monk James
      >
      > Christ is risen from the dead, by His death trampling Death,
      > and upon those in the tombs bestowing life.
      >
      > And, since He has bestowed upon us everlasting life,
      > we adore His resurrection on the third day.
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Ierei Kirill <kirbart@...>
      > Date: Tuesday, May 2, 2006 12:09 am
      > Subject: Re: [ustav] May a Deacon give Communion in the absence of a
      > Priest?
      >
      >> Well.. finally I get hold of the primary source and now I had name of
      >> the deacon, parish and bishop. Also I have two names of the bishops
      >> of ROCOR, that has been consulted about this matter and their answers
      >> were as intriguing as OCA bishop decision. So, those who are still
      >> interested, please ask me privately, otherwise I'm going to send this
      >> to monk James, priest Alban and Whiteford, hoping that they will
      >> retract their wild accusations publicly.
      >>
      >> Ierei Kirill
      >>
      >> --- "Fr. John Whiteford" <frjohnwhiteford@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> > I agree. I know that some deacons in the OCA and the Antiochian
      >> > Archdiocese have been given blessings to distribute the reserve
      >> > sacrament in the context of an "enhanced" typika (the "Deacon's
      >> > Mass", as it is sometimes jokingly referred to), but I don't
      >> > believe any bishop would bless a deacon to consecrate the
      >> > Eucharist.
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > frjsilver@... wrote:
      >> > Christ is risen! Truly risen!
      >> >
      >> > Dear Friends --
      >> >
      >> > No OCA bishop gave a blessing for any such thing, no matter what Fr
      >> > Kirill and his schismatic group think about the OCA. He's
      >> > misinformed and spreading vicious gossip. He should be ashamed of
      >> > himself and repent his sin.
      >> >
      >> > Monk James
      >> >
      >> > ----- Original Message -----
      >> > From: Ierei Kirill
      >> > Date: Thursday, April 27, 2006 9:43 am
      >> > Subject: Re: [ustav] May a Deacon give Communion in the absence of
      >> > a Priest?
      >> >
      >> > > Just in order to add to the spectrum of the odd practises, I was
      >> > told
      >> > > by one well knowing individual that one OCA bishop gave his
      >> > blessing
      >> > > for the deacon to serve liturgy as a priest, as this deacon was
      >> > not
      >> > > willing to become a priest at all. I was very scandalized in a
      >> > > beggining, and express my dismay, but later into conversation, I
      >> > > realized that there is no reason for worrying as that happened in
      >> > > OCA, and Mysteries anyway wouldn't be performed, would it be
      >> > deacon,
      >> > > priest, or bishop.
      >> > >
      >> > > Ierei Kirill
      >> > >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > Post message: ustav@yahoogroups.com
      >> > Subscribe: ustav-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >> > Unsubscribe: ustav-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >> > CONTACT LIST OWNER: ustav-owner@yahoogroups.com
      >> > URL to archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ustav
      >> >
      >> > More ustav information and service texts:
      >> > http://www.orthodox.net/ustav
      >> > http://www.orthodox.net/services
      >> >
      >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > Fr. John Whiteford
      >>
      >> >
      >> > St. Jonah Orthodox Church
      >> > Parish Home Page: http://www.saintjonah.org/
      >> > ROCOR Discussion Group:
      >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-rocor/
      >> > Parish News: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjonah/
      >> > Blog: http://fatherjohn.blogspot.com/
      >> >
      >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >> >
      >> >
      >>
      >>
      >> Parish web site:
      >> http://www.freewebs.com/rusorthodox
      >>
      >> __________________________________________________
      >> Do You Yahoo!?
      >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      >> http://mail.yahoo.com
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> Post message: ustav@yahoogroups.com
      >> Subscribe: ustav-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >> Unsubscribe: ustav-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >> CONTACT LIST OWNER: ustav-owner@yahoogroups.com
      >> URL to archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ustav
      >>
      >> More ustav information and service texts:
      >> http://www.orthodox.net/ustav
      >> http://www.orthodox.net/services
      >>
      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      > Post message: ustav@yahoogroups.com
      > Subscribe: ustav-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > Unsubscribe: ustav-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > CONTACT LIST OWNER: ustav-owner@yahoogroups.com
      > URL to archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ustav
      >
      > More ustav information and service texts:
      > http://www.orthodox.net/ustav
      > http://www.orthodox.net/services
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • fatherharryl
      Christ is Risen! I agree except that that is quite an accusation against the OCA. It does need addressed, no? This list can contain things that are not
      Message 35 of 35 , May 3, 2006
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        Christ is Risen!
        I agree except that that is quite an accusation against the OCA. It
        does need addressed, no? This list can contain things that are not
        edifying but when an accusation is made, the person giving it must be
        given some sort of reprimand if there is no proof of the accusation.
        I myself have a hard time believe that the OCA would have permitted
        such a thing with a deacon. A "pro-Liturgy"/presanctified Typika
        yes, but a full Liturgy by a deacon? I'm sorry but the burden of
        proof is on the one who made the accusation..., and an apology is in
        order if he is mistaken. And the implication that the liturgy is not
        valid even if by bishop or priest...? I believe that the discussion
        is not scandelous but the initial accusation is if it is not true,
        and that now, we all should remain silent and hear the proof, and if
        there is not proof disregard the accusation and await an apology to
        the Bishops and priest who were scandelized by the accusation.
        Fr. Haralampij Linsinbigler

        --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "ieromonaco Gabriele"
        <ieromonacogabriele@...> wrote:
        >
        > Christ is Risen
        >
        > this is now off topic, and I fear that such a thread, as it is
        coming out,
        > could cause an avalanche of vetriolic messages that do no good to
        anybody
        > and for sure harm the Church (whatever your Church is). So I ask:
        would the
        > reverend fathers (whose comments on many topics caught my interest,
        and won
        > my gratitude) keep it private?
        > thanks in advance
        >
        > in the Risen Lord
        > hmnk Gabriele (who has no time for fights)
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: <frjsilver@...>
        > To: <ustav@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 1:37 AM
        > Subject: Re: [ustav] May a Deacon give Communion in the absence of
        a Priest?
        >
        >
        > > Dear Friends --
        > >
        > > I repeat what I wrote to you earlier: no OCA bishop has ever
        blessed a
        > > 'deacon to serve liturgy as a priest'. It hasn't happened, can't
        happen,
        > > won't ever happen.
        > >
        > > Fr Kirill remains misinformed.
        > >
        > > Peace and blessings of the Lord's resurrection to all.
        > >
        > > Monk James
        > >
        > > Christ is risen from the dead, by His death trampling Death,
        > > and upon those in the tombs bestowing life.
        > >
        > > And, since He has bestowed upon us everlasting life,
        > > we adore His resurrection on the third day.
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: Ierei Kirill <kirbart@...>
        > > Date: Tuesday, May 2, 2006 12:09 am
        > > Subject: Re: [ustav] May a Deacon give Communion in the absence
        of a
        > > Priest?
        > >
        > >> Well.. finally I get hold of the primary source and now I had
        name of
        > >> the deacon, parish and bishop. Also I have two names of the
        bishops
        > >> of ROCOR, that has been consulted about this matter and their
        answers
        > >> were as intriguing as OCA bishop decision. So, those who are
        still
        > >> interested, please ask me privately, otherwise I'm going to send
        this
        > >> to monk James, priest Alban and Whiteford, hoping that they will
        > >> retract their wild accusations publicly.
        > >>
        > >> Ierei Kirill
        > >>
        > >> --- "Fr. John Whiteford" <frjohnwhiteford@...> wrote:
        > >>
        > >> > I agree. I know that some deacons in the OCA and the
        Antiochian
        > >> > Archdiocese have been given blessings to distribute the reserve
        > >> > sacrament in the context of an "enhanced" typika (the "Deacon's
        > >> > Mass", as it is sometimes jokingly referred to), but I don't
        > >> > believe any bishop would bless a deacon to consecrate the
        > >> > Eucharist.
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> > frjsilver@... wrote:
        > >> > Christ is risen! Truly risen!
        > >> >
        > >> > Dear Friends --
        > >> >
        > >> > No OCA bishop gave a blessing for any such thing, no matter
        what Fr
        > >> > Kirill and his schismatic group think about the OCA. He's
        > >> > misinformed and spreading vicious gossip. He should be ashamed
        of
        > >> > himself and repent his sin.
        > >> >
        > >> > Monk James
        > >> >
        > >> > ----- Original Message -----
        > >> > From: Ierei Kirill
        > >> > Date: Thursday, April 27, 2006 9:43 am
        > >> > Subject: Re: [ustav] May a Deacon give Communion in the
        absence of
        > >> > a Priest?
        > >> >
        > >> > > Just in order to add to the spectrum of the odd practises, I
        was
        > >> > told
        > >> > > by one well knowing individual that one OCA bishop gave his
        > >> > blessing
        > >> > > for the deacon to serve liturgy as a priest, as this deacon
        was
        > >> > not
        > >> > > willing to become a priest at all. I was very scandalized in
        a
        > >> > > beggining, and express my dismay, but later into
        conversation, I
        > >> > > realized that there is no reason for worrying as that
        happened in
        > >> > > OCA, and Mysteries anyway wouldn't be performed, would it be
        > >> > deacon,
        > >> > > priest, or bishop.
        > >> > >
        > >> > > Ierei Kirill
        > >> > >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> > Post message: ustav@yahoogroups.com
        > >> > Subscribe: ustav-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >> > Unsubscribe: ustav-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >> > CONTACT LIST OWNER: ustav-owner@yahoogroups.com
        > >> > URL to archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ustav
        > >> >
        > >> > More ustav information and service texts:
        > >> > http://www.orthodox.net/ustav
        > >> > http://www.orthodox.net/services
        > >> >
        > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> > Fr. John Whiteford
        > >>
        > >> >
        > >> > St. Jonah Orthodox Church
        > >> > Parish Home Page: http://www.saintjonah.org/
        > >> > ROCOR Discussion Group:
        > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-rocor/
        > >> > Parish News: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjonah/
        > >> > Blog: http://fatherjohn.blogspot.com/
        > >> >
        > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> Parish web site:
        > >> http://www.freewebs.com/rusorthodox
        > >>
        > >> __________________________________________________
        > >> Do You Yahoo!?
        > >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > >> http://mail.yahoo.com
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> Post message: ustav@yahoogroups.com
        > >> Subscribe: ustav-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >> Unsubscribe: ustav-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >> CONTACT LIST OWNER: ustav-owner@yahoogroups.com
        > >> URL to archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ustav
        > >>
        > >> More ustav information and service texts:
        > >> http://www.orthodox.net/ustav
        > >> http://www.orthodox.net/services
        > >>
        > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Post message: ustav@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subscribe: ustav-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > > Unsubscribe: ustav-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > > CONTACT LIST OWNER: ustav-owner@yahoogroups.com
        > > URL to archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ustav
        > >
        > > More ustav information and service texts:
        > > http://www.orthodox.net/ustav
        > > http://www.orthodox.net/services
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
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