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[ustav] Wedding Project

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  • m. Photini Henderson
    Question on Crowns: In the Russian (old, but not old old) tradition, apparently the crowns are held over the heads. Would it be an error if someone marrying
    Message 1 of 10 , Jun 2, 1999
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      Question on Crowns:

      In the Russian (old, but not old old) tradition,
      apparently the crowns are held over the heads. Would
      it be an error if someone marrying in the new rite
      would have the crowns on the head rather than held
      over the heads? Is this a severe violation, or can
      this be allowed?

      In Christ,

      Photini


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    • Fr. Basil Rhodes & Mat. Joan Rhodes
      Dear Matushka, Hi! It is my understanding that in accordance with Serbian custom, the crowns *are* worn. Isn t that right? Fr. Basil ... eGroups.com home:
      Message 2 of 10 , Jun 2, 1999
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        Dear Matushka,

        Hi! It is my understanding that in accordance with Serbian custom, the
        crowns *are* worn. Isn't that right?

        Fr. Basil

        m. Photini Henderson wrote:

        > Question on Crowns:
        >
        > In the Russian (old, but not old old) tradition,
        > apparently the crowns are held over the heads. Would
        > it be an error if someone marrying in the new rite
        > would have the crowns on the head rather than held
        > over the heads? Is this a severe violation, or can
        > this be allowed?
        >
        > In Christ,
        >
        > Photini
        >
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      • Bishop Tikhon
        At 06:33 PM 6/2/99 -0700, Photini wrote: Would ... If, as I ve always thought, the reason for not placing the wedding crowns on the head of the bride and groom
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 2, 1999
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          At 06:33 PM 6/2/99 -0700, Photini wrote:

          Would
          >it be an error if someone marrying in the new rite
          >would have the crowns on the head rather than held
          >over the heads? Is this a severe violation, or can
          >this be allowed?

          If, as I've always thought, the reason for not placing the wedding crowns
          on the head of the bride and groom in the Russian Church was due to their
          having to be used over and over, and the consequent dangers of contracting,
          oh, lice or ringworm or something, I would say that there is no reason not
          to allow the crowns to rest on the heads: in fact, there are not a few
          engravings that show the metal crowns, in fact, resting on those heads.
          Nevertheless, I am sure that in antiseptic America there would be many who
          would be leery of placing a crown having a well-worn lining on one's head.
          Not placing the crown on the heads is a matter of usage, accepted,
          customary usage. There is no rubric directing that the crowns be held
          *over* the heads of the bridal pair.
          There are many, however, that simply want to challenge every bit of pious
          custom that exists if it is not down in black and white. This seems to me
          to be an attitude coming from outside the Orthodox Church, coming perhaps
          from such Roman Catholic and High Lutheran circles that consider the Church
          to be "Constantly Undergoing Reformation and Renovation," and therefore,
          needful of "Correction and Restoration." Perhaps it also reflects a
          prejudice in favor of inspired spontaneity over pious custom.
          Love,
          +B.T.

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        • Rev. John R. Shaw
          In Bulgakov s Nastol naja Kniga , on p. 1243, in the middle of lengthy footnote 20, it says, The crowns should be specifically put on the heads of the bride
          Message 4 of 10 , Jun 3, 1999
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            In Bulgakov's "Nastol'naja Kniga", on p. 1243, in the middle of lengthy
            footnote 20, it says, "The crowns should be specifically put on the heads
            of the bride and groom; the expression of the Trebnik that 'a groomsman
            shall hold the crowns from behind' is to be understood in the sense that
            during the procession around the lectern they are to be held or
            supported..."
            This is not the current practice in the Russian Church, but since
            this book was not only approved by the censors but reprinted many times,
            and is still held in esteem today, it is permissible to place the crowns
            on the heads of the bride and groom--instead of over them, like halos.

            On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, m. Photini Henderson wrote:

            > Question on Crowns:
            >
            > In the Russian (old, but not old old) tradition,
            > apparently the crowns are held over the heads. Would
            > it be an error if someone marrying in the new rite
            > would have the crowns on the head rather than held
            > over the heads? Is this a severe violation, or can
            > this be allowed?
            >
            > In Christ,
            >
            > Photini
            >
            >
            > _________________________________________________________
            > Do You Yahoo!?
            >
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > eGroups Spotlight:
            > "Veterans Resources" - Find out more about the US Department
            > of Veteran Affairs and relevant court cases.
            > http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/183
            >
            >
            > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/ustav
            > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
            >
            >
            >
            >


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          • Rev. John R. Shaw
            In Bulgakov s Nastol naja Kniga , on p. 1243, in the middle of lengthy footnote 20, it says, The crowns should be specifically put on th
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 3, 1999
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              In Bulgakov's "Nastol'naja Kniga", on p. 1243, in the middle of lengthy
              footnote 20, it says, "The crowns should be specifically put on th
            • Michael Malloy
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 3, 1999
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              • damianj@juno.com
                If your parish is 100% Russian, it may be a little t tradition problem to wear the crowns, but let me assure you, in every other Orthodox tradition except
                Message 7 of 10 , Jun 3, 1999
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                  If your parish is 100% Russian, it may be a little "t" tradition problem
                  to wear the crowns, but let me assure you, in every other Orthodox
                  tradition except the Russians, the crowns are worn, not held above the
                  heads. We wore our flowered crowns, Ukrainian style, at our wedding in a
                  mostly Russian parish 5 years ago. no one was freaked about it.

                  janet


                  On Wed, 2 Jun 1999 18:33:56 -0700 (PDT) "m. Photini Henderson"
                  <mhen_derson@...> writes:
                  >Question on Crowns:
                  >
                  >In the Russian (old, but not old old) tradition,
                  >apparently the crowns are held over the heads. Would
                  >it be an error if someone marrying in the new rite
                  >would have the crowns on the head rather than held
                  >over the heads? Is this a severe violation, or can
                  >this be allowed?
                  >
                  >In Christ,
                  >
                  >Photini
                  >
                  >
                  >_________________________________________________________
                  >Do You Yahoo!?
                  >
                  >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >eGroups Spotlight:
                  >"Veterans Resources" - Find out more about the US Department
                  >of Veteran Affairs and relevant court cases.
                  >http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/183
                  >
                  >
                  >eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/ustav
                  >http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

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                • Fr. Michael Spainhoward
                  Dear Matushka, The Holy Spirit has Descended! Having read the multitude of responses to your original post, I would respond by simply having, as you did, the
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jun 3, 1999
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                    Dear Matushka,
                    The Holy Spirit has Descended!
                    Having read the multitude of responses to your original post, I would
                    respond by simply having, as you did, the young lady inquire of her
                    priest or bishop. I have a mixed parish and have used full "imperial"
                    crowns, floral wreaths, and simple gold bands with icons on them. I
                    prefer the "imperial" style crowns and always place them directly on the
                    heads of the couple. In preparation for which I always instruct the
                    bride (and groom these days) not to be too elaborate with the hairdos.
                    :-)

                    Pray for me.

                    In His Love,
                    Fr. Michael

                    ----------
                    > From: m. Photini Henderson <mhen_derson@...>
                    > To: ustav@egroups.com
                    > Subject: [ustav] Wedding Project
                    > Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 6:33 PM
                    >
                    > Question on Crowns:
                    >
                    > In the Russian (old, but not old old) tradition,
                    > apparently the crowns are held over the heads. Would
                    > it be an error if someone marrying in the new rite
                    > would have the crowns on the head rather than held
                    > over the heads? Is this a severe violation, or can
                    > this be allowed?
                    >
                    > In Christ,
                    >
                    > Photini
                    >
                    >
                    > _________________________________________________________
                    > Do You Yahoo!?
                    >
                    >
                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > eGroups Spotlight:
                    > "Veterans Resources" - Find out more about the US Department
                    > of Veteran Affairs and relevant court cases.
                    > http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/183
                    >
                    >
                    > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/ustav
                    > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >

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                  • spasi@erols.com
                    wrote: Original Article: http://www.egroups.com/group/ustav/?start=1874 ... Dear Matushka, I just attended a double wedding
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jun 15, 1999
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                      <37560026.f843e47-@...> wrote:
                      Original Article: http://www.egroups.com/group/ustav/?start=1874
                      > Dear Matushka,
                      >
                      > Hi! It is my understanding that in accordance with Serbian custom, the
                      > crowns *are* worn. Isn't that right?
                      >
                      Dear Matushka,

                      I just attended a double wedding (one after the other) Bulgarian (Exarchate) and the crowns were worn but the kumovi carried candles instead of the crowns that the best men do in the Americanized Russian. Same deal in the Macedonian and Serbian but I have also seen Serb wedding following the Russian custom. Greeks wear the crowns and have especially wonderful display boxes to put the wedding crowns in to save them. This is also made significant in the service for the removal of the crowns which are intended to be worn for a week.

                      Galina


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                    • mhen_derson@yahoo.com
                      I was unable to receive this rich text format attachment ... Would the sender be able to send it directly to me in plain text to mhen_derson@yahoo.com Thank
                      Message 10 of 10 , Aug 8, 1999
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                        I was unable to receive this rich text format attachment ... Would the
                        sender be able to send it directly to me in plain text to

                        mhen_derson@...

                        Thank you so much.

                        In Christ,

                        Photini

                        <3.0.3.32.19990603081051.00695b4-@...-state.edu> wrote:
                        original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/ustav/?start=1879
                        > I was told in our Serbian church that the crowns are placed on the
                        couple's heads as opposed to Greek practice where they are merely held
                        above the heads.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Michael Malloy -
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                        >
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