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[ustav] Re: Liturgical Colors

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  • Claudia Maxey
    Dear Father Seraphim, Father Bless! I am very interested in the use of different colored vestments in our services. Where could I get a copy of the Handbook
    Message 1 of 27 , May 29, 1999
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      Dear Father Seraphim,
      Father Bless!
      I am very interested in the use of different colored vestments in our
      services. Where could I get a copy of the "Handbook of Liturgics: Vigil,
      Divine
      Liturgy and Various Appendices"? Also, is there any source that explains
      how the different colors were incorporated into the different seasons and
      feastdays? Does anyone know how universal is the use of certain colors for
      certain feastdays (e.g. blue vestment for feastdays of the Theotokos)? Is
      the use of different colors stressed more in the Russian parishes?
      In Christ,
      Claudia Maxey



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    • Rev. John R. Shaw
      Although there are many questions in the following posting that I am not in a position to answer, I do remember one detail about the title vs. position of
      Message 2 of 27 , Jun 1, 1999
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        Although there are many questions in the following posting that I am not
        in a position to answer, I do remember one detail about the title vs.
        position of "archimandrite" that may be helpful to some:
        Thus, at the 1971 ROCA Sobor in Montreal, I was one of the
        subdeacons, and at one of the many Liturgies, a Fr. Theodore, hitherto
        Hegumen, was elevated to the dignity of Archimandrite, which was an honor
        corresponding to "Archpriest" or "Protopriest" for a non-monastic priest.
        At one point I remarked to Fr. Theodore that I had expected him to be
        given an archimandrite's crozier (staff, zhezl, posokh). Fr. Theodore said
        that "this is done *only* if the archimandrite is the head of a
        monastery". (Also a participant in the Sobor was Archim. Anthony Grabbe,
        then head of the Russian Jerusalem Mission, who did have such a staff of
        office).
        In Jordanville, there were "many archimandrites" when I was a
        seminarian, yes; but only old Archim. Panteleimon (Nizhnik), who was the
        founder of the monastery and theoretically the head, had an
        archimandrite's "zhezl".

        On Mon, 31 May 1999, Bishop Tikhon wrote:

        > An Archimandrite Sergei Kelleher wrote:
        >
        > > I find it quite easy to believe Archimandrite Robert Taft's
        > >suggestion that ...
        >
        > etc.
        >
        > What are the parameters of the usage of the title "Archimandrite" in the
        > Roman Catholic Church? Is this title awarded to diocesan clergy? To regular
        > clergy? If "diocesan" clergy, are they diocesan clergy in a diocese of one
        > or other of the Roman Catholic Eastern Rites, or in, say, a local diocese
        > of the Church in Ireland or America? If "regular clergy", would that be
        > only given to, say, Jesuits or Augustinians assigned to serve in the Roman
        > Catholic Churches known as "Russian Catholic", i.e., derived from the
        > initiative of Exarch Leonid Fedorov? I know, and am not surprised by it,
        > that in the Roman Catholic Ukrainian Rite Monastery out here in California,
        > they have such standard eastern monastic titles as are current in the
        > Orthodox Church, but I was surprised, to learn that Archimandrite Sergei
        > Kelleher is, apparently, a Roman Catholic Priest of the Eastern Rite
        > serving it Ireland! I had recently read a program that listed
        > "Archimandrite Robert Taft", but, it seems that though I thought I had
        > stored this item in memory, it had, in fact, ended up in the recycle bin,
        > where it might have remained, had not I begun reading on the ustav list.
        > Please forgive me if I am violating any guidelines: I merely want to know
        > if I am getting more or less learned "input" from someone who is a leader
        > of a large Eastern Rite monastery, a la the one at Chevetogne, or am
        > reading "input" from a representative of an Eastern Rite Roman Catholicism
        > concerned with imitating as closely as possible the polity and nomenclature
        > of the Orthodox. In the case of Very Rev. Professor Taft, was this not some
        > kind of award given as a kind of flower in the hat to someone so successful
        > in certain Orthodox circles? Surely Professor Taft has not formed a
        > monastery within the Jesuit order? I would also be a little disappointed to
        > learn that the Church of Rome would follow the bad (to me) practice of some
        > Greek Orthodox dioceses of automatically entitling every celibate Priest
        > "Archimandrite" six months after ordination to the Priesthood?
        >
        > May I ask too, how many Archimandrites are now at Jordanville? At one time
        > there were " a lot", but I believe that was in the days when there may have
        > been many Archimandrites at large, driven from their own monasteries. There
        > were a lot at St. Tikhon's once, too, but I think those days are gone.
        >
        > Love,
        > +B.T.
        >
        >
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      • PraviSrbin@aol.com
        In a message dated 5/31/99 10:23:48 AM Central Daylight Time, mmalama@cadvision.com writes:
        Message 3 of 27 , Jun 1, 1999
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          In a message dated 5/31/99 10:23:48 AM Central Daylight Time,
          mmalama@... writes:

          << Serbian parish here, the people would approach to ask my blessing! >>

          Unfortunately, in the Serbian Church, priests do not wear pectoral crosses
          unless they are a Protopresbyter-Stavrofor. It is the equivalence to a
          Mitred priest in ROCOR.

          In Christ,
          Nikolaj

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        • Bishop Tikhon
          Deacon James wrote: Original Article: http://www.egroups.com/group/ustav/?start=1826 Readers & sub-deacons outside the Russian ... And even in many Russian
          Message 4 of 27 , Jun 2, 1999
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            Deacon James wrote:
            Original Article: http://www.egroups.com/group/ustav/?start=1826
            Readers & sub-deacons outside the Russian
            > Church do not seem to wear cassocks at all, & seem somewhat confused by
            > the practice

            And even in many Russian Churches readers and subdeacons do not wear
            "cassocks". In fact, in many Russian Churches, the sides of the Stikharia
            worn by Church-Servitors, including Subdeacons and Readers, are often sewn
            right up, so that, if the Stikharion is long enough, no "cassock" need be
            worn under it. Further, some guidance by Our Father among the Saints, John
            of Shanghai and San Francisco, Wonderworker, that those serving in the
            Altar must not wear neckties, would be superfluous for the *main* body of
            those serving in the Altar as candle-bearers, ponomars, et cetera, who
            should be Readers, if they were expected to be wearing "cassocks." No one
            would think to wear a necktie under the high, close-fitting collar of the
            Russian "cassock."
            As for practice *outside* the Russian Church, which Deacon James has
            brought up, it may be noted that Psalmist/Readers in the Greek Church
            *customarily* wear outer "cassocks!" Why, that woman in the GOA, Deedee
            Jackette, lets herself be photographed in her outer "cassock", I
            understand, and objections are made solely on the basis of her being
            female, and no one has thought to say that an untonsured Reader (in the
            case of the Greeks) or that no one who is not a Sacred Servitor, as opposed
            to the Church Servitors, may wear an outer "cassock" at all! Of course, in
            the Greek American Churches, one rarely sees the Priests and Deacons in
            anything but a black "clergy suit", and they sometimes do not even deign to
            wear a cassock under their liturgical vestments! The *only* person
            regularly wearing a "cassock" of any type in those parishes is the Psalmist!
            In my experience that includes many Russian parishes, I would say that the
            Reader or Subdeacon that wears a "cassock" around the Church is
            exceptional; however, it is certainly de rigueur amongst converts and in
            mission parishes: there one can be almost sure that the tonsured reader
            will wear his "cassock" at every available opportunity. Some older Russians
            that visit a mission parish made up largely of converts may be expected to
            remark something like,"Well, if those are not all Priests, why are they
            dressed like Priests?"
            Of course, Russian Orthodox Seminarians, whether tonsured reader or not,
            are often specially blessed to wear a cassock upon matriculation. In
            America, it's something like "part of registration" to order a "cassock."
            With feelings of deepest respect to all Deacons, whom I always envy, in a way,
            +Bishop Tikhon


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          • Trfcc@aol.com
            Doesn t DeeDee Jacquet actually just wear a black graduation/choir gown? In my travels I have rarely seen even the psalti wearing true exorason, but instead
            Message 5 of 27 , Jun 2, 1999
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              Doesn't DeeDee Jacquet actually just wear a black graduation/choir gown? In
              my travels I have rarely seen even the psalti wearing true exorason, but
              instead they opt for these cheaper, lighter weight gowns that are no longer
              than the knee.
              Hieromonk Christopher

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            • damianj@juno.com
              In my former Romanian parish, I saw the priest wear 2 colors: Gold brocade and Black & gold brocade for funerals and Holy Friday . I don t know if that was
              Message 6 of 27 , Jun 5, 1999
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                In my former Romanian parish, I saw the priest wear 2 colors: Gold
                brocade and Black & gold brocade for funerals and Holy Friday . I don't
                know if that was just his/their local practice or if the different colors
                are used more often in Russian parishes. In our OCA parish (Russian
                style), our priest and deacon have every color and wear them for the
                appropriate days.

                janet


                On Sat, 29 May 1999 21:52:46 -0500 claudia2@... (Claudia Maxey)
                writes:
                >Dear Father Seraphim,
                >Father Bless!
                >I am very interested in the use of different colored vestments in our
                >services. Where could I get a copy of the "Handbook of Liturgics:
                >Vigil,
                >Divine
                >Liturgy and Various Appendices"? Also, is there any source that
                >explains
                >how the different colors were incorporated into the different seasons
                >and
                >feastdays? Does anyone know how universal is the use of certain
                >colors for
                >certain feastdays (e.g. blue vestment for feastdays of the
                >Theotokos)? Is
                >the use of different colors stressed more in the Russian parishes?
                >In Christ,
                >Claudia Maxey
                >
                >
                >
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                >
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                >
                >
                >
                >

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              • Livenet
                Dear Claudia: The Handbook was prepared by Fr. Alexis Duncan, the Sub-Dean of the Southern Deanery of ROCOR. His address is Joy of All Who Sorrow ROC 2810
                Message 7 of 27 , Jun 7, 1999
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                  Dear Claudia:

                  The Handbook was prepared by Fr. Alexis Duncan, the Sub-Dean of the Southern
                  Deanery of ROCOR. His address is
                  Joy of All Who Sorrow ROC
                  2810 Napa Valley
                  Cumming, GA 30041-8029
                  phone: 770/886-7111
                  Sincerely, Fr. Seraphim Stephens
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Claudia Maxey <claudia2@...>
                  To: ustav@egroups.com <ustav@egroups.com>
                  Date: Saturday, June 05, 1999 8:25 AM
                  Subject: [ustav] Re: Liturgical Colors


                  >Dear Father Seraphim,
                  >Father Bless!
                  >I am very interested in the use of different colored vestments in our
                  >services. Where could I get a copy of the "Handbook of Liturgics: Vigil,
                  >Divine
                  >Liturgy and Various Appendices"? Also, is there any source that explains
                  >how the different colors were incorporated into the different seasons and
                  >feastdays? Does anyone know how universal is the use of certain colors for
                  >certain feastdays (e.g. blue vestment for feastdays of the Theotokos)? Is
                  >the use of different colors stressed more in the Russian parishes?
                  >In Christ,
                  >Claudia Maxey
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                  >
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                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


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                • Michael Dykes
                  Dear ustavers, Does anyone have a list of the appropriate Liturgical Colors for the Altar, icon stands, etc. for the various seasons of the Orthodox Church
                  Message 8 of 27 , Aug 16, 1999
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                    Dear ustavers,

                    Does anyone have a list of the appropriate Liturgical Colors for the
                    Altar, icon stands, etc. for the various seasons of the Orthodox Church
                    Year? (Nativity, Dormition, Great Lent, Pascha, Pentecost, weekdays
                    after Pentecost,etc.)

                    Sincerly,
                    Michael Dykes
                    _________________________________________________________
                    Do You Yahoo!?
                  • Rudolph von Abele
                    Two realted questions: (1) In traditional Russian usage, in what color is the Church vested during the Nativity Fast? (2) On Sundays, is the entire Church
                    Message 9 of 27 , Nov 21, 2003
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                      Two realted questions:

                      (1) In traditional Russian usage, in what color is the Church vested
                      during the Nativity Fast?

                      (2) On Sundays, is the entire Church changed back to gold, or does
                      the priest simply vest in gold, leaving the Church in dark colors?

                      -- Fr Seraphim von Abele
                    • Peter Fekula
                      Generally, in Russian churches the vestments are red during the Nativity Fast. This holds true for weekdays and Sundays -- red all the way through (no gold at
                      Message 10 of 27 , Nov 21, 2003
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                        Generally, in Russian churches the vestments are red during the Nativity Fast. This holds true for weekdays and Sundays -- red all the way through (no gold at all), except for the feast of the Entry of the Theotokos, when blue vestments are used.

                        I'm curious as to when people change their vestments from red to white. In our parish, our priest generally serves Matins of Dec. 24 (the preceding evening) in red, but Vespers and Liturgy on the morning of the 24th in white.

                        What do others do?

                        Peter Fekula


                        On Friday, November 21, 2003 2:44 PM, Rudolph von Abele wrote:

                        Two realted questions:

                        (1) In traditional Russian usage, in what color is the Church vested during
                        the Nativity Fast?

                        (2) On Sundays, is the entire Church changed back to gold, or does the priest
                        simply vest in gold, leaving the Church in dark colors?

                        -- Fr Seraphim von Abele
                      • Sergius Miller
                        ... white. In our parish, our priest generally serves Matins of Dec. 24 (the preceding evening) in red, but Vespers and Liturgy on the morning of the 24th in
                        Message 11 of 27 , Nov 21, 2003
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                          --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fekula <pfekula@m...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I'm curious as to when people change their vestments from red to
                          white. In our parish, our priest generally serves Matins of Dec. 24
                          (the preceding evening) in red, but Vespers and Liturgy on the
                          morning of the 24th in white.
                          >
                          > What do others do?
                          >
                          > Peter Fekula

                          Dear Peter,
                          Our usage in the OCA cathedral in D.C. is the same, viz.,
                          Vespers/Liturgy on the 24th in white/gold festal vestments having
                          used red throughout the Nativity Fast from after the feast of the
                          Entry of the Theotokos.

                          In XC,
                          Sergius
                          >
                          >
                          > On Friday, November 21, 2003 2:44 PM, Rudolph von Abele wrote:
                          >
                          > Two realted questions:
                          >
                          > (1) In traditional Russian usage, in what color is the Church
                          vested during
                          > the Nativity Fast?
                          >
                          > (2) On Sundays, is the entire Church changed back to gold, or does
                          the priest
                          > simply vest in gold, leaving the Church in dark colors?
                          >
                          > -- Fr Seraphim von Abele
                        • Kenneth Doll
                          FWIW, I have seen red for Vespers and St. Basil s Liturgy with the change to white only for vigil of Great Compline and Matins. Kenneth ... does
                          Message 12 of 27 , Nov 24, 2003
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                            FWIW, I have seen red for Vespers and St. Basil's Liturgy with
                            the change to white only for vigil of Great Compline and Matins.

                            Kenneth

                            --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Sergius Miller" <srbmillerr@a...>
                            wrote:
                            > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fekula <pfekula@m...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > I'm curious as to when people change their vestments from red to
                            > white. In our parish, our priest generally serves Matins of Dec. 24
                            > (the preceding evening) in red, but Vespers and Liturgy on the
                            > morning of the 24th in white.
                            > >
                            > > What do others do?
                            > >
                            > > Peter Fekula
                            >
                            > Dear Peter,
                            > Our usage in the OCA cathedral in D.C. is the same, viz.,
                            > Vespers/Liturgy on the 24th in white/gold festal vestments having
                            > used red throughout the Nativity Fast from after the feast of the
                            > Entry of the Theotokos.
                            >
                            > In XC,
                            > Sergius
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > On Friday, November 21, 2003 2:44 PM, Rudolph von Abele wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Two realted questions:
                            > >
                            > > (1) In traditional Russian usage, in what color is the Church
                            > vested during
                            > > the Nativity Fast?
                            > >
                            > > (2) On Sundays, is the entire Church changed back to gold, or
                            does
                            > the priest
                            > > simply vest in gold, leaving the Church in dark colors?
                            > >
                            > > -- Fr Seraphim von Abele
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