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Re: [ustav] Royal Gates on Vigils

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  • kyril@mynachdysantelias.fsnet.co.uk
    ... I assume that you are referring to the Holy Doors (in the Iconostasis) rather than to the Royal Doors (between the narthex and the nave). In this case
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 1, 2005
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      > Message date : Jul 01 2005, 12:15 AM
      > From : "Fr. Alexey Chumakov" <achumakov@...>
      > To : ustav@yahoogroups.com
      > Copy to :
      > Subject : [ustav] Royal Gates on Vigils
      >
      > Greetings in Christ.
      > I have seen variable practices wrt opening and closing the Royal Doors
      > during the vigil service. What do you do in your parishes? For
      > example, besides initial censing and for entrance at Vespers, do you
      > open Royal Doors for litia, do you open them for the great doxology?
      >

      I assume that you are referring to the Holy Doors (in the Iconostasis) rather than to the Royal Doors (between the narthex and the nave). In this case for Lity we follow he rubrics which state that the Holy Doors remain closed. For the Great Doxology we also follow the rubrics and open the Holy Doors.

      Archimandrite Kyril Jenner

      --

      Whatever you Wanadoo:
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    • Fr. John R. Shaw
      ... Royal Doors (between the narthex and the nave). JRS: In Russian, the term Tsarskie Vrata always refers to the Royal Gates of the iconostasis -- and to no
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 1, 2005
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        Archim. Kyril Jenner wrote:

        > I assume that you are referring to the Holy Doors (in the Iconostasis) rather than to the
        Royal Doors (between the narthex and the nave).

        JRS: In Russian, the term "Tsarskie Vrata" always refers to the Royal Gates of the iconostasis
        -- and to no others.

        Consequently, when people who belong to the Russian Church speak English about these
        things, the words "Royal Gates" refer specifically to those of the iconostasis, and not to the
        doors between the narthex and the main body of the church.

        In Greek, the Royal Gates are usually called "Oraia Pili", or "Beautiful Gates".

        In Byzantine monastic or other ancient churches there were ceremonial doors between the
        narthex and the nave, and in some rubrics they are referred to; but in America this term is
        not used. Either there are no such doors, or else they serve a very secondary purpose.

        In Christ
        Fr. John R. Shaw
      • Peter Fekula
        At Vigils in our parish, which follows Russian usage, the Royal (altar) Doors are: - Opened at the beginning for Ps 103 and shut when the censing concludes -
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 1, 2005
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          At Vigils in our parish, which follows Russian usage, the Royal (altar) Doors are:

          - Opened at the beginning for Ps 103 and shut when the censing concludes
          - Opened at the dogmatic theotokion of the Lord I have cried stichera and shut after the prokimenon concludes
          - Opened at the Polyeleos and shut after the clergy returns into the sanctuary after the veneration of the festal icon or Gospel during the canon
          - Opened at the final sticheron of the Praises and shut after the dismissal of Matins

          The Doors remain closed for Lity.

          I've also observed in other parishes the Doors being opened at "Hail Theotokos Virgin," before the conclusion of Vespers.

          Peter Fekula


          On Friday, July 1, 2005 4:22 AM, kyril@... wrote:


          I assume that you are referring to the Holy Doors (in the Iconostasis) rather than to the Royal Doors (between the narthex and the nave). In this case for Lity we follow he rubrics which state that the Holy Doors remain closed. For the Great Doxology we also follow the rubrics and open the Holy Doors.

          Archimandrite Kyril Jenner



          Message date: Jul 01 2005, 12:15 AM
          From: Fr. Alexey Chumakov
          To: ustav@yahoogroups.com

          Greetings in Christ.

          I have seen variable practices wrt opening and closing the Royal Doors during the vigil service. What do you do in your parishes? For example, besides initial censing and for entrance at Vespers, do you open Royal Doors for litia, do you open them for the great doxology?
        • Fr David Straut
          Dear Peter, You have summarised the opening and closing of the Holy Doors at Vigil clearly and succinctly. However, is it not true that if there are New
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 1, 2005
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            Dear Peter,

            You have summarised the opening and closing of the Holy Doors at Vigil
            clearly and succinctly. However, is it not true that if there are New
            Testament readings for the Parables after the prokeimenon (as, for
            example on the Feasts of the Apostles) that the Holy Doors remain open
            until after these New Testament Readings are completed? (We close the
            Holy Doors when the Readings are for the Old Testament.)

            Priest David Straut
            St Eliozabeth the New Martyr Orthodox Church
            Rocky Hill, New Jersey



            --- Peter Fekula <pfekula@...> wrote:


            ---------------------------------
            At Vigils in our parish, which follows Russian usage, the Royal (altar)
            Doors are:

            - Opened at the beginning for Ps 103 and shut when the censing
            concludes
            - Opened at the dogmatic theotokion of the Lord I have cried stichera
            and shut after the prokimenon concludes
            - Opened at the Polyeleos and shut after the clergy returns into the
            sanctuary after the veneration of the festal icon or Gospel during the
            canon
            - Opened at the final sticheron of the Praises and shut after the
            dismissal of Matins

            The Doors remain closed for Lity.

            I've also observed in other parishes the Doors being opened at "Hail
            Theotokos Virgin," before the conclusion of Vespers.

            Peter Fekula


            On Friday, July 1, 2005 4:22 AM, kyril@...
            wrote:


            I assume that you are referring to the Holy Doors (in the Iconostasis)
            rather than to the Royal Doors (between the narthex and the nave). In
            this case for Lity we follow he rubrics which state that the Holy Doors
            remain closed. For the Great Doxology we also follow the rubrics and
            open the Holy Doors.

            Archimandrite Kyril Jenner



            Message date: Jul 01 2005, 12:15 AM
            From: Fr. Alexey Chumakov
            To: ustav@yahoogroups.com

            Greetings in Christ.

            I have seen variable practices wrt opening and closing the Royal Doors
            during the vigil service. What do you do in your parishes? For example,
            besides initial censing and for entrance at Vespers, do you open Royal
            Doors for litia, do you open them for the great doxology?





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          • Cezar Login
            According to the sabbaite Typikon, the great censing at the beginning of the Vigil is performed before the beginning of the service. So the Holy Doors are
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 1, 2005
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              According to the sabbaite Typikon, the great censing at the beginning of the
              Vigil is performed before the beginning of the service. So the Holy Doors
              are opened before the censing, and close immediately after the blessing.



              Also, according to the sabbaite Typikon, the Holy Doors are to be closed
              immediately after the Vespers' Entry, and not after the prokeimenon.

              (however, in the actual Romanian practice the doors are closed after the
              prokeimenon, and if there are readings, only at the end of the last of
              them).



              At Matins, according to the same sabbaite Typikon:

              - at Polyeleos, if there are no magnification, like during some
              Sundays in the winter season, when the Polyeleos is added to the Ps. 118 for
              the length of the night, the Holy Doors are not to be opened. The same when
              there is only Ps. 118. In these cases, I believe the best moment for the
              opening is the chanting of the prokeimenon, before the Gospel reading.

              - the Holy Doors are not to be opened at the Great Doxology, but
              rather after the last litany, for the dismissal.



              Cezar



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Fr. Alexey Chumakov
              Thanks to everyone for explanations. We also open the Doors during censing and ps103, before Dogmatic theotokion until after prokimenon. It seems like there is
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 1, 2005
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                Thanks to everyone for explanations.
                We also open the Doors during censing and ps103, before Dogmatic
                theotokion until after prokimenon. It seems like there is also a
                custom to open at "Theotokos Virgin Rejoice", which is not according
                to Typicon.
                During Matins, at Polyeleos until return to altar, then at
                "Preblagoslovenna esi..." (last stichera of Praises) until dismissal.
                But I do not think this last opening of Gates is directed in Typicon.

                At litia, it also directs us to go outside throughj Northern doors,
                leaving the Royal Gates closed - perhaps the practice of opening them
                has its origins in protodeacons serving with Bishops?


                --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fekula <pfekula@m...> wrote:
                > At Vigils in our parish, which follows Russian usage, the Royal
                (altar) Doors are:
                >
                > - Opened at the beginning for Ps 103 and shut when the censing concludes
                > - Opened at the dogmatic theotokion of the Lord I have cried
                stichera and shut after the prokimenon concludes
                > - Opened at the Polyeleos and shut after the clergy returns into the
                sanctuary after the veneration of the festal icon or Gospel during the
                canon
                > - Opened at the final sticheron of the Praises and shut after the
                dismissal of Matins
                >
                > The Doors remain closed for Lity.
                >
                > I've also observed in other parishes the Doors being opened at "Hail
                Theotokos Virgin," before the conclusion of Vespers.
                >
                > Peter Fekula
                >
                >
                > On Friday, July 1, 2005 4:22 AM, kyril@m... wrote:
                >
                >
                > I assume that you are referring to the Holy Doors (in the
                Iconostasis) rather than to the Royal Doors (between the narthex and
                the nave). In this case for Lity we follow he rubrics which state that
                the Holy Doors remain closed. For the Great Doxology we also follow
                the rubrics and open the Holy Doors.
                >
                > Archimandrite Kyril Jenner
                >
                >
                >
                > Message date: Jul 01 2005, 12:15 AM
                > From: Fr. Alexey Chumakov
                > To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Greetings in Christ.
                >
                > I have seen variable practices wrt opening and closing the Royal
                Doors during the vigil service. What do you do in your parishes? For
                example, besides initial censing and for entrance at Vespers, do you
                open Royal Doors for litia, do you open them for the great doxology?
              • Fr. John Whiteford
                Bishop Peter told me that it is parish practice to open the doors at O Theotokos and Virgin . This is not what they do at Jordanville, but since he told me
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 2, 2005
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                  Bishop Peter told me that it is parish practice to open the doors
                  at "O Theotokos and Virgin". This is not what they do at
                  Jordanville, but since he told me this, that is what we do (except
                  when there is a litia, in which case, the doors remain shut).

                  -Fr. John Whiteford



                  --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. Alexey Chumakov" <achumakov@h...>
                  wrote:
                  > Thanks to everyone for explanations.
                  > We also open the Doors during censing and ps103, before Dogmatic
                  > theotokion until after prokimenon. It seems like there is also a
                  > custom to open at "Theotokos Virgin Rejoice", which is not according
                  > to Typicon.
                  > During Matins, at Polyeleos until return to altar, then at
                  > "Preblagoslovenna esi..." (last stichera of Praises) until
                  dismissal.
                  > But I do not think this last opening of Gates is directed in
                  Typicon.
                  >
                  > At litia, it also directs us to go outside throughj Northern doors,
                  > leaving the Royal Gates closed - perhaps the practice of opening
                  them
                  > has its origins in protodeacons serving with Bishops?
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fekula <pfekula@m...> wrote:
                  > > At Vigils in our parish, which follows Russian usage, the Royal
                  > (altar) Doors are:
                  > >
                  > > - Opened at the beginning for Ps 103 and shut when the censing
                  concludes
                  > > - Opened at the dogmatic theotokion of the Lord I have cried
                  > stichera and shut after the prokimenon concludes
                  > > - Opened at the Polyeleos and shut after the clergy returns into
                  the
                  > sanctuary after the veneration of the festal icon or Gospel during
                  the
                  > canon
                  > > - Opened at the final sticheron of the Praises and shut after the
                  > dismissal of Matins
                  > >
                  > > The Doors remain closed for Lity.
                  > >
                  > > I've also observed in other parishes the Doors being opened
                  at "Hail
                  > Theotokos Virgin," before the conclusion of Vespers.
                  > >
                  > > Peter Fekula
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > On Friday, July 1, 2005 4:22 AM, kyril@m... wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > I assume that you are referring to the Holy Doors (in the
                  > Iconostasis) rather than to the Royal Doors (between the narthex and
                  > the nave). In this case for Lity we follow he rubrics which state
                  that
                  > the Holy Doors remain closed. For the Great Doxology we also follow
                  > the rubrics and open the Holy Doors.
                  > >
                  > > Archimandrite Kyril Jenner
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Message date: Jul 01 2005, 12:15 AM
                  > > From: Fr. Alexey Chumakov
                  > > To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
                  > >
                  > > Greetings in Christ.
                  > >
                  > > I have seen variable practices wrt opening and closing the Royal
                  > Doors during the vigil service. What do you do in your parishes? For
                  > example, besides initial censing and for entrance at Vespers, do you
                  > open Royal Doors for litia, do you open them for the great doxology?
                • Fr. John R. Shaw
                  ... JRS: There are many such divergences. For example, in Jordanville, at the Presanctified Liturgy, the Royal Gates are closed during the singing of Da
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 2, 2005
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                    Fr. John Whiteford wrote:

                    > Bishop Peter told me that it is parish practice to open the doors
                    > at "O Theotokos and Virgin". This is not what they do at
                    > Jordanville, but since he told me this, that is what we do (except
                    > when there is a litia, in which case, the doors remain shut).

                    JRS: There are many such divergences.

                    For example, in Jordanville, at the Presanctified Liturgy, the Royal Gates are closed during the
                    singing of "Da Ispravitsja" (Let My Prayer Arise) as the priest censes. But in most cathedrals
                    and parish churches, the Royal Gates are open at this point -- and the rubrics in the Greek
                    Hieratikon say that the priest censes the main icons of Christ and the Theotokos as well as
                    the Holy Table, so that would imply that the Royal Gates are open.

                    While I was at the cathedral in Chicago, we had a visiting priest from Novgorod, who
                    explained to us that in Novgorod, the Royal Gates remained open during the Great Litany at
                    both the Night Vigil and the Divine Liturgy, and were closed only after the exclamation. With
                    Vl. Alypy's permission, I changed over to that practice myself (until then, I had closed the
                    Royal Gates after the censing at the beginning of the Night Vigil, and not opened them at all
                    till the Little Entrance at the Divine Liturgy).

                    The rubrics in the priest's Sluzhebnik do say that the Royal Gates are closed for the Litany
                    "Let us all say". There is a widespread practice to the contrary, but I personally have always
                    followed that rubric. (If an archimandrite is the main celebrant and there are concelebrant
                    priests, then the Royal Gates are open till the Great Entrance, as Archbishop Seraphim
                    instructed us).

                    An interesting confusion resulting from calling the Royal Gates "the Doors": in the Serbian
                    Church, I have observed concelebrating priests wave the Royal Gates back and forth at the
                    words, "The doors, the doors, let us attend" before the Creed.

                    In fact, the "doors" referred to here are the Western doors of the church, which were closed
                    behind the departing catechumens in the early centuries.

                    In Christ
                    Fr. John R. Shaw
                  • Peter Fekula
                    Dear Father David: I have never observed the Holy Doors being kept open for New Testament readings at Vespers, but I must say that it makes a lot of sense to
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jul 5, 2005
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                      Dear Father David:

                      I have never observed the Holy Doors being kept open for New Testament readings at Vespers, but I must say that it makes a lot of sense to do so. I will discuss this with our priest -- we have an opportunity to adopt this practice at the upcoming feast of Sts. Peter and Paul.

                      Peter Fekula


                      On Friday, July 1, 2005 10:55 AM, Fr David Straut wrote:

                      Dear Peter,

                      You have summarised the opening and closing of the Holy Doors at Vigil clearly and succinctly. However, is it not true that if there are New Testament readings for the Parables after the prokeimenon (as, for example on the Feasts of the Apostles) that the Holy Doors remain open until after these New Testament Readings are completed? (We close the Holy Doors when the Readings are for the Old Testament.)

                      Priest David Straut
                      St Eliozabeth the New Martyr Orthodox Church
                      Rocky Hill, New Jersey


                      --- Peter Fekula wrote:

                      At Vigils in our parish, which follows Russian usage, the Royal (altar) Doors are:

                      - Opened at the beginning for Ps 103 and shut when the censing concludes
                      - Opened at the dogmatic theotokion of the Lord I have cried stichera and shut after the prokimenon
                      concludes
                      - Opened at the Polyeleos and shut after the clergy returns into the sanctuary after the veneration
                      of the festal icon or Gospel during the canon
                      - Opened at the final sticheron of the Praises and shut after the dismissal of Matins

                      The Doors remain closed for Lity.

                      I've also observed in other parishes the Doors being opened at "Hail Theotokos Virgin," before the conclusion of Vespers.

                      Peter Fekula


                      On Friday, July 1, 2005 4:22 AM, kyril@... wrote:

                      I assume that you are referring to the Holy Doors (in the Iconostasis) rather than to the Royal Doors (between the narthex and the nave). In this case for Lity we follow he rubrics which state that the Holy Doors remain closed. For the Great Doxology we also follow the rubrics and open the Holy Doors.

                      Archimandrite Kyril Jenner


                      Message date: Jul 01 2005, 12:15 AM
                      From: Fr. Alexey Chumakov
                      To: ustav@yahoogroups.com

                      Greetings in Christ.

                      I have seen variable practices wrt opening and closing the Royal Doors during the vigil service. What do you do in your parishes? For example, besides initial censing and for entrance at Vespers, do you open Royal Doors for litia, do you open them for the great doxology?
                    • frjsilver@optonline.net
                      Dear Friends -- It makes sense to me, too, to leave the Holy Doors of the altar open if the readings are taken from the New Testament. This is more especially
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jul 5, 2005
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                        Dear Friends --

                        It makes sense to me, too, to leave the Holy Doors of the altar open if the readings are taken from the New Testament.

                        This is more especially true since -- as I was instructed -- we're to remain standing during those NT readings.

                        If the readings are taken from the Old Testament, though, the Holy Doors would be open for 'Wisdom!' and 'Let us be attentive!' We sit down, and the reader begins. When he finishes each section, the Holy Doors are opened again, and we stand up, sitting down again as he begins the next section.

                        Perhaps there are variants of this practice, but this is how I learned it a million or two years ago.

                        Peace and blessings to all.

                        Monk James

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Peter Fekula <pfekula@...>
                        Date: Tuesday, July 5, 2005 11:05 am
                        Subject: Re: [ustav] Royal Gates on Vigils

                        > Dear Father David:
                        >
                        > I have never observed the Holy Doors being kept open for New
                        > Testament readings at Vespers, but I must say that it makes a lot
                        > of sense to do so. I will discuss this with our priest -- we have
                        > an opportunity to adopt this practice at the upcoming feast of
                        > Sts. Peter and Paul.
                        >
                        > Peter Fekula
                        >
                        >
                        > On Friday, July 1, 2005 10:55 AM, Fr David Straut wrote:
                        >
                        > Dear Peter,
                        >
                        > You have summarised the opening and closing of the Holy Doors at
                        > Vigil clearly and succinctly. However, is it not true that if
                        > there are New Testament readings for the Parables after the
                        > prokeimenon (as, for example on the Feasts of the Apostles) that
                        > the Holy Doors remain open until after these New Testament
                        > Readings are completed? (We close the Holy Doors when the Readings
                        > are for the Old Testament.)
                        >
                        > Priest David Straut
                        > St Eliozabeth the New Martyr Orthodox Church
                        > Rocky Hill, New Jersey
                        >
                        >
                        > --- Peter Fekula wrote:
                        >
                        > At Vigils in our parish, which follows Russian usage, the Royal
                        > (altar) Doors are:
                        >
                        > - Opened at the beginning for Ps 103 and shut when the censing
                        > concludes- Opened at the dogmatic theotokion of the Lord I have
                        > cried stichera and shut after the prokimenon
                        > concludes
                        > - Opened at the Polyeleos and shut after the clergy returns into
                        > the sanctuary after the veneration
                        > of the festal icon or Gospel during the canon
                        > - Opened at the final sticheron of the Praises and shut after the
                        > dismissal of Matins
                        >
                        > The Doors remain closed for Lity.
                        >
                        > I've also observed in other parishes the Doors being opened at
                        > "Hail Theotokos Virgin," before the conclusion of Vespers.
                        >
                        > Peter Fekula
                        >
                        >
                        > On Friday, July 1, 2005 4:22 AM,
                        > kyril@... wrote:
                        >
                        > I assume that you are referring to the Holy Doors (in the
                        > Iconostasis) rather than to the Royal Doors (between the narthex
                        > and the nave). In this case for Lity we follow he rubrics which
                        > state that the Holy Doors remain closed. For the Great Doxology we
                        > also follow the rubrics and open the Holy Doors.
                        >
                        > Archimandrite Kyril Jenner
                        >
                        >
                        > Message date: Jul 01 2005, 12:15 AM
                        > From: Fr. Alexey Chumakov
                        > To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        > Greetings in Christ.
                        >
                        > I have seen variable practices wrt opening and closing the Royal
                        > Doors during the vigil service. What do you do in your parishes?
                        > For example, besides initial censing and for entrance at Vespers,
                        > do you open Royal Doors for litia, do you open them for the great
                        > doxology?
                        >
                      • Fr. John R. Shaw
                        ... Vespers, but I must say that it makes a lot of sense to do so. I will discuss this with our priest -- we have an opportunity to adopt this practice at the
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jul 5, 2005
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                          Peter Fekula wrote:

                          > I have never observed the Holy Doors being kept open for New Testament readings at
                          Vespers, but I must say that it makes a lot of sense to do so. I will discuss this with our priest
                          -- we have an opportunity to adopt this practice at the upcoming feast of Sts. Peter and Paul.

                          JRS: The rubrical annuals from Russia direct one to do this -- keep the Royal Gates open if
                          the readings are from the New Testament.

                          In Christ
                          Fr. John R. Shaw
                        • Isaac Lambertsen
                          Dear Father David, Peter & List, I vaguely recall reading of a related practice: When Old Testament readings are being done, it is permitted for congregants to
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jul 5, 2005
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                            Dear Father David, Peter & List,

                            I vaguely recall reading of a related practice: When Old Testament
                            readings are being done, it is permitted for congregants to sit;
                            whereas, if the paramias are from the New Testament, one should remain
                            standing throughout.

                            I cannot now accurately remember where I read this, but it may have
                            been in one of the books authored by the late Fr. David Abramtsov.

                            Sincerely,

                            Isaac Lambertsen


                            On Jul 5, 2005, at 11:05 AM, Peter Fekula wrote:

                            > Dear Father David:
                            >
                            > I have never observed the Holy Doors being kept open for New Testament
                            > readings at Vespers, but I must say that it makes a lot of sense to do
                            > so. I will discuss this with our priest -- we have an opportunity to
                            > adopt this practice at the upcoming feast of Sts. Peter and Paul.
                            >
                            > Peter Fekula
                            >
                            >
                            > On Friday, July 1, 2005 10:55 AM, Fr David Straut wrote:
                            >
                            > Dear Peter,
                            >
                            > You have summarised the opening and closing of the Holy Doors at Vigil
                            > clearly and succinctly. However, is it not true that if there are New
                            > Testament readings for the Parables after the prokeimenon (as, for
                            > example on the Feasts of the Apostles) that the Holy Doors remain open
                            > until after these New Testament Readings are completed? (We close the
                            > Holy Doors when the Readings are for the Old Testament.)
                            >
                            > Priest David Straut
                            > St Eliozabeth the New Martyr Orthodox Church
                            > Rocky Hill, New Jersey
                            >
                            >
                            > --- Peter Fekula wrote:
                            >
                            > At Vigils in our parish, which follows Russian usage, the Royal
                            > (altar) Doors are:
                            >
                            > - Opened at the beginning for Ps 103 and shut when the censing
                            > concludes
                            > - Opened at the dogmatic theotokion of the Lord I have cried stichera
                            > and shut after the prokimenon
                            > concludes
                            > - Opened at the Polyeleos and shut after the clergy returns into the
                            > sanctuary after the veneration
                            > of the festal icon or Gospel during the canon
                            > - Opened at the final sticheron of the Praises and shut after the
                            > dismissal of Matins
                            >
                            > The Doors remain closed for Lity.
                            >
                            > I've also observed in other parishes the Doors being opened at "Hail
                            > Theotokos Virgin," before the conclusion of Vespers.
                            >
                            > Peter Fekula
                            >
                            >
                            > On Friday, July 1, 2005 4:22 AM, kyril@...
                            > wrote:
                            >
                            > I assume that you are referring to the Holy Doors (in the Iconostasis)
                            > rather than to the Royal Doors (between the narthex and the nave). In
                            > this case for Lity we follow he rubrics which state that the Holy
                            > Doors remain closed. For the Great Doxology we also follow the rubrics
                            > and open the Holy Doors.
                            >
                            > Archimandrite Kyril Jenner
                            >
                            >
                            > Message date: Jul 01 2005, 12:15 AM
                            > From: Fr. Alexey Chumakov
                            > To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > Greetings in Christ.
                            >
                            > I have seen variable practices wrt opening and closing the Royal Doors
                            > during the vigil service. What do you do in your parishes? For
                            > example, besides initial censing and for entrance at Vespers, do you
                            > open Royal Doors for litia, do you open them for the great doxology?
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
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                            > URL to archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ustav
                            >
                            > More ustav information and service texts:
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                          • Fr. John R. Shaw
                            ... JRS: There really aren t any rubrics about sitting for the laity. In Russian practice, people generally do not sit. One exception, though, is when
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jul 5, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Isaac Lambertson wrote:

                              > I vaguely recall reading of a related practice: When Old Testament
                              > readings are being done, it is permitted for congregants to sit;
                              > whereas, if the paramias are from the New Testament, one should remain
                              > standing throughout.

                              JRS: There really aren't any rubrics about sitting for the laity. In Russian practice, people
                              generally do not sit.

                              One exception, though, is when patristic homilies are read. But that does not normally
                              happen in parish churches.

                              In Christ
                              Fr. John R. Shaw
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