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Re: Canon for Dormition

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  • sputnikpsalomschchika
    In an ideal world, at an ideal klrios, the singers either all read music or they all know the music by heart. Not all of us are blessed with people who possess
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 10, 2004
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      In an ideal world, at an ideal klrios, the singers either all read
      music or they all know the music by heart.

      Not all of us are blessed with people who possess one or both of the
      above skills. That is why I say, we will muddle through. We will do
      our best.

      Reader Michael



      --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "stephen_r1937" <stephen.r@l...> wrote:
      > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "sputnikpsalomschchika"
      <malloy.2@o...> wrote:
      > > We'll muddle through somehow.
      > >
      > > Thanks to both of your for you much appreciated insights. I'm
      serious...

      > Thinking outside the box in this case brings us face to face with
      traditional practice. A single cantor, or two or three people if you
      have them, can do the irmosy and katavasiae. That way you could
      actually sing the irmosy to the Znamenny melodies; but if that seems
      too radical they can of course be sung to the Common Chant melodies.
      The assumption that the Canon can't be sung if the choir can't
      sight-read it is another result of the decline of the kliros in
      18th-19th century Russia, and its not-quite-but-almost-complete
      replacement by the choir loft. In the 20th century the choir loft
      experienced a crisis, and almost no one remembered the ancestral
      practice.
      >
      > Stephen
    • stephen_r1937
      Dear Janet, There are still such cantors among the Serbs and among the Carpatho-Rusyns and Galicians, although there have been severe problems in training
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 11, 2004
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        Dear Janet,

        There are still such cantors among the Serbs and among the Carpatho-Rusyns and Galicians, although there have been severe problems in training cantors both in the West (because of small and often poor communities, and because of the spread of Russian choral singing among those who have no such ancestral tradition) and in the home countries (because of anti-christian governments during much of the 20th century). The "straight" singing you mention is in fact too often material never intended for congregational singing; what the congregation is expected to sing is a greatly oversimplified melodic line, originally intended to be embedded in a dense harmonic structure, in a style of singing that consists primarily of chord progressions. Expecting the entire congregation to sing everything is one extreme; expecting them to remain silent, perhaps praying with a prayer rope, while listening to either a) a trained psalt or perhaps several of them singing everything at the kliros, or b) a choir singing choral composition from a loft or from some place in the nave, is the other extreme.

        If a choir that could sight-read polyphonic compositions were necessary for church singing, our original congregations--just about all of those founded over a generation ago--would have read services instead of singing them.

        Stephen

        --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Janet M Damian <damianj@j...> wrote:
        > Dear Stephen,
        > you are absolutely right. and we're dealing with the "congregational
        > singing" issue as well. in some places, the entire congregation is
        > expected to sing everything, so therefore a lot is omitted and music is
        > simplified to "straight" I'm glad you mentioned trained chanters, we've
        > lost that talent/art except in the Byzantine traditions.
        >
        > janet
        >
        >
        >
        > > >
        > > Thinking outside the box in this case brings us face to face with
        > > traditional practice. A single cantor, or two or three people if
        > > you have them, can do the irmosy and katavasiae. That way you could
        > > actually sing the irmosy to the Znamenny melodies; but if that seems
        > > too radical they can of course be sung to the Common Chant melodies.
        > > The assumption that the Canon can't be sung if the choir can't
        > > sight-read it is another result of the decline of the kliros in
        > > 18th-19th century Russia, and its not-quite-but-almost-complete
        > > replacement by the choir loft. In the 20th century the choir loft
        > > experienced a crisis, and almost no one remembered the ancestral
        > > practice.
        > >
        > > Stephen
        > >
        > >
      • stephen_r1937
        ... True enough, but one or two who can read music and practice a bit beforehand suffice for irmosy, theotokia, etc. Stephen
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 11, 2004
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          --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "sputnikpsalomschchika" <malloy.2@o...> wrote:
          > In an ideal world, at an ideal klrios, the singers either all read
          > music or they all know the music by heart.
          >
          > Not all of us are blessed with people who possess one or both of the
          > above skills.

          True enough, but one or two who can read music and practice a bit beforehand suffice for irmosy, theotokia, etc.

          Stephen
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