Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Fathers Kontakion

Expand Messages
  • MM Ossorgin
    Dear List, In case some of you are preparing the service for the Sunday Before Nativity: I noticed on Fr. John s rubrics, he has (I think this is for the
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 1, 2003
      Dear List,

      In case some of you are preparing the service for the Sunday Before
      Nativity:

      I noticed on Fr. John's rubrics, he has (I think this is for the Prophet
      Daniel and Three Youths), after Glory..., the:

      Kontakion *6: A hand-wrought image ye would not worship...

      Where I have:

      Fathers Kontakion *1 SPEC. MEL: ³THE CHOIR OF ANGELS...²

      Be glad, O Bethlehem!/ Make ready, O Ephratha!/ For, lo! she who beareth
      the Lamb and great Shepherd in her womb/ doth make haste to give birth./
      Beholding this, the God-bearing fathers are glad,// with the shepherds
      hymning the Virgin who giveth milk.

      Which is correct?

      In Christ, MM
    • Fr. John R. Shaw
      ... Prophet ... beareth ... birth./ ... JRS: What you have is the Kondak of the Fore-feast of the Nativity: that would be sung after Both now... What Fr.
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 1, 2003
        > Dear List,
        >
        > In case some of you are preparing the service for the Sunday Before
        > Nativity:
        >
        > I noticed on Fr. John's rubrics, he has (I think this is for the
        Prophet
        > Daniel and Three Youths), after Glory..., the:
        >
        > Kontakion *6: A hand-wrought image ye would not worship...
        >
        > Where I have:
        >
        > Fathers Kontakion *1 SPEC. MEL: ³THE CHOIR OF ANGELS...²
        >
        > Be glad, O Bethlehem!/ Make ready, O Ephratha!/ For, lo! she who
        beareth
        > the Lamb and great Shepherd in her womb/ doth make haste to give
        birth./
        > Beholding this, the God-bearing fathers are glad,// with the shepherds
        > hymning the Virgin who giveth milk.

        JRS: What you have is the Kondak of the Fore-feast of the Nativity:
        that would be sung after "Both now..."

        What Fr. John gives is that of the Holy Fathers (and also Dec. 17, St.
        Daniel and the 3 Youths). This is sung after "Gloria", prior to "Both
        now" and the Kondak of the Fore-feast.

        In Christ
        Fr. John R. Shaw
      • MM Ossorgin
        ... Father, bless, Thank you, I mislabeled it as the kontakion of the fathers and copied it, but should have been labeled as the forefeast. Sorry, my mistake.
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 1, 2003
          On 1/1/03 10:16 AM, "Fr. John R. Shaw" <vrevjrs@...> wrote:
          >
          > JRS: What you have is the Kondak of the Fore-feast of the Nativity:
          > that would be sung after "Both now..."
          >
          > What Fr. John gives is that of the Holy Fathers (and also Dec. 17, St.
          > Daniel and the 3 Youths). This is sung after "Gloria", prior to "Both
          > now" and the Kondak of the Fore-feast.


          Father, bless,

          Thank you, I mislabeled it as the kontakion of the fathers and copied it,
          but should have been labeled as the forefeast. Sorry, my mistake. I agree
          that the father's kontakion is in Tone 6:

          O thrice-blessed ones, who did not honor an image wrought by hands,...

          (A different translation than Fr. John's, but the same kontakion. (I got it
          from the Sunday before Nativity menaion service).

          You clarified what I should have asked:

          I show that the kontakion of the forefeast, as you explained, is:

          Fathers Kontakion *1 SPEC. MEL: ³THE CHOIR OF ANGELS...²
          Be glad, O Bethlehem!...

          And that this should be done after Now & ever...

          Fr. John has the kontakion of the forefeast (which the menaion states as the
          kontakion of the forefeast after Ode III in the 23rd service(rubrics from
          SJOKP):

          which is actually that of the feast itself.

          This is a mistake, da eil nyet?

          In Christ, Michael
        • Sergius Miller <srbmillerr@aol.com>
          Dear Michael, If the Sunday before the Nativity is on the 18th or 19th Fr. John s kondak is correct. If the Sunday before is within the prefeast your kondak is
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 2, 2003
            Dear Michael,
            If the Sunday before the Nativity is on the 18th or 19th Fr. John's
            kondak is correct.

            If the Sunday before is within the prefeast your kondak is the
            correct Father's kondak.

            The forefeast kondak is: Today the Virgin cometh to give birth
            ineffably to the preeternal Word....

            In XC,
            Sergius Miller


            --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "MM Ossorgin" <mm@o...> wrote:
            > Dear List,
            >
            > In case some of you are preparing the service for the Sunday Before
            > Nativity:
            >
            > I noticed on Fr. John's rubrics, he has (I think this is for the
            Prophet
            > Daniel and Three Youths), after Glory..., the:
            >
            > Kontakion *6: A hand-wrought image ye would not worship...
            >
            > Where I have:
            >
            > Fathers Kontakion *1 SPEC. MEL: ³THE CHOIR OF ANGELS...²
            >
            > Be glad, O Bethlehem!/ Make ready, O Ephratha!/ For, lo! she who
            beareth
            > the Lamb and great Shepherd in her womb/ doth make haste to give
            birth./
            > Beholding this, the God-bearing fathers are glad,// with the
            shepherds
            > hymning the Virgin who giveth milk.
            >
            > Which is correct?
            >
            > In Christ, MM
          • Sergius Miller <srbmillerr@aol.com>
            ... That should be Fathers ... These alternates are printed and rubricated on p.199 of the December Menaion. ... Before
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 2, 2003
              --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Sergius Miller <srbmillerr@a...>"
              <srbmillerr@a...> wrote:
              > Dear Michael,
              > If the Sunday before the Nativity is on the 18th or 19th Fr. John's
              > kondak is correct.
              >
              > If the Sunday before is within the prefeast your kondak is the
              > correct Father's kondak.

              That should be "Fathers'"
              >
              > The forefeast kondak is: Today the Virgin cometh to give birth
              > ineffably to the preeternal Word....
              >
              > In XC,
              > Sergius Miller

              These alternates are printed and rubricated on p.199 of the December
              Menaion.
              >
              >
              > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "MM Ossorgin" <mm@o...> wrote:
              > > Dear List,
              > >
              > > In case some of you are preparing the service for the Sunday
              Before
              > > Nativity:
              > >
              > > I noticed on Fr. John's rubrics, he has (I think this is for the
              > Prophet
              > > Daniel and Three Youths), after Glory..., the:
              > >
              > > Kontakion *6: A hand-wrought image ye would not worship...
              > >
              > > Where I have:
              > >
              > > Fathers Kontakion *1 SPEC. MEL: ³THE CHOIR OF ANGELS...²
              > >
              > > Be glad, O Bethlehem!/ Make ready, O Ephratha!/ For, lo! she who
              > beareth
              > > the Lamb and great Shepherd in her womb/ doth make haste to give
              > birth./
              > > Beholding this, the God-bearing fathers are glad,// with the
              > shepherds
              > > hymning the Virgin who giveth milk.
              > >
              > > Which is correct?
              > >
              > > In Christ, MM
            • Daniel Olson
              ... There seems to be some confusion over which kontakion of the Fathers should be sung on the Sunday of the Holy Fathers (Sunday before the Nativity). There
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 2, 2003
                On 1/2/03 Fr. John Shaw wrote:

                >> In case some of you are preparing the service for the Sunday Before
                >> Nativity:
                >>
                >> I noticed on Fr. John's rubrics, he has (I think this is for the
                > Prophet
                >> Daniel and Three Youths), after Glory..., the:
                >>
                >> Kontakion *6: A hand-wrought image ye would not worship...
                >>
                >> Where I have:
                >>
                >> Fathers Kontakion *1 SPEC. MEL: ³THE CHOIR OF ANGELS...²
                >>
                >> Be glad, O Bethlehem!/ Make ready, O Ephratha!/ For, lo! she who
                > beareth
                >> the Lamb and great Shepherd in her womb/ doth make haste to give
                > birth./
                >> Beholding this, the God-bearing fathers are glad,// with the shepherds
                >> hymning the Virgin who giveth milk.
                >
                > JRS: What you have is the Kondak of the Fore-feast of the Nativity:
                > that would be sung after "Both now..."
                >
                > What Fr. John gives is that of the Holy Fathers (and also Dec. 17, St.
                > Daniel and the 3 Youths). This is sung after "Gloria", prior to "Both
                > now" and the Kondak of the Fore-feast.

                There seems to be some confusion over which kontakion of the Fathers should
                be sung on the Sunday of the Holy Fathers (Sunday before the Nativity).
                There are actually two kontakion for the Fathers. The first, in Tone 6 ("O
                thrice blessed ones, who did not honor an image wrought by hands...") is
                appointed to be used only when the Sunday of the Fathers falls on 18 or 19
                December, i.e., outside of the forefestal period (by the way, this is the
                same kontakion appointed for the Sunday of the Forefathers).

                The second kontakion of the Fathers, in Tone 1 ("Be glad, O Bethlehem! Make
                ready, O Ephratha...", the text of which was given above by Michael
                Ossorgin) is appointed to be sung when the Sunday of the Fathers falls
                during the forefeastal period (20 through 24 December). It is this kontakion
                of the Fathers that should be sung on this coming Sunday on "Glory..." at
                the Liturgy (and after Ode VI in Matins).

                The kontakion of the forefeast, which is appointed to be sung on "Both
                now...." in the Liturgy is the one in Tone 3 found in the Menaion under 23
                December ("Today the Virgin cometh...").

                Daniel Olson
              • MM Ossorgin
                ... Thank you, Daniel Fr. John Shaw and Sergius Miller for clarifying this! In Christ, Michael
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 2, 2003
                  On 1/2/03 7:40 AM, "Daniel Olson" <daniel@...> wrote:

                  > There seems to be some confusion over which kontakion of the Fathers should
                  > be sung on the Sunday of the Holy Fathers (Sunday before the Nativity).
                  > There are actually two kontakion for the Fathers. The first, in Tone 6 ("O
                  > thrice blessed ones, who did not honor an image wrought by hands...") is
                  > appointed to be used only when the Sunday of the Fathers falls on 18 or 19
                  > December, i.e., outside of the forefestal period (by the way, this is the
                  > same kontakion appointed for the Sunday of the Forefathers).
                  >
                  > The second kontakion of the Fathers, in Tone 1 ("Be glad, O Bethlehem! Make
                  > ready, O Ephratha...", the text of which was given above by Michael
                  > Ossorgin) is appointed to be sung when the Sunday of the Fathers falls
                  > during the forefeastal period (20 through 24 December). It is this kontakion
                  > of the Fathers that should be sung on this coming Sunday on "Glory..." at
                  > the Liturgy (and after Ode VI in Matins).
                  >
                  > The kontakion of the forefeast, which is appointed to be sung on "Both
                  > now...." in the Liturgy is the one in Tone 3 found in the Menaion under 23
                  > December ("Today the Virgin cometh...").
                  >
                  > Daniel Olson

                  Thank you, Daniel Fr. John Shaw and Sergius Miller for clarifying this!

                  In Christ, Michael
                • Fr. John Whiteford <frjohnwhiteford@yaho
                  Thanks for the heads up. I ve corrected it on our site. ... Prophet ... beareth ... birth./ ... shepherds
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jan 2, 2003
                    Thanks for the heads up. I've corrected it on our site.

                    --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "MM Ossorgin" <mm@o...> wrote:
                    > Dear List,
                    >
                    > In case some of you are preparing the service for the Sunday Before
                    > Nativity:
                    >
                    > I noticed on Fr. John's rubrics, he has (I think this is for the
                    Prophet
                    > Daniel and Three Youths), after Glory..., the:
                    >
                    > Kontakion *6: A hand-wrought image ye would not worship...
                    >
                    > Where I have:
                    >
                    > Fathers Kontakion *1 SPEC. MEL: ³THE CHOIR OF ANGELS...²
                    >
                    > Be glad, O Bethlehem!/ Make ready, O Ephratha!/ For, lo! she who
                    beareth
                    > the Lamb and great Shepherd in her womb/ doth make haste to give
                    birth./
                    > Beholding this, the God-bearing fathers are glad,// with the
                    shepherds
                    > hymning the Virgin who giveth milk.
                    >
                    > Which is correct?
                    >
                    > In Christ, MM
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.