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[ustav] Re: During the Priest's Communio

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  • Matanna@aol.com
    Dear Steve, ... would be so silent on a point in the service which can take so long?
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 30, 1998
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      Dear Steve,

      >How can it be that the Typikon, which is so detailed about nearly everything,
      would be so silent on a point in the service which can take so long?<

      Well, if done properly, the Communion verses can be rather long. I don't know
      all of them, but for example there's a Cherubimic Hymn (the one that starts
      out in unison) to the same melody as "Blessed are they whom Thou has chosen."
      Each phrase of the verse is sung, the Alleluia is sung, and if there's still
      time, well, a choir can start over, like they do if the Cherubimic Hymn
      doesn't allow enough time for the priest to cense and say the prayers. If the
      choir sings the given verse to the proper melody, slowly and with reverence,
      it could in theory take up the full amount of time needed.

      But, for another, this is an area where the priest can provide for the needs
      of the people, as we've seen. If almost no one comes to Vigil, it makes sense
      to sing the things from Matins that explain the feast at this point. If you're
      in a parish (they exist) where everyone comes late, this is a good place to
      sing the troparion and kondakion, so those who missed it will hear it. Perhaps
      it wasn't MEANT as a space for remedial reflection, but all things come
      together for good, HERE's the chance that the priest and choir director,
      working in tandem, have to express to the people the full import of the feast.
      We have so many opportunities to reach out to each other.

      What works in one parish would never work in another, but, that's okay. A
      priest and a choir director should know the people well enough to know if
      readings or chanting, prayers or psalms are more appropriate.

      In Jordanville, where they have MANY clergy to commune, sometimes a seminarian
      will be assigned to give a sermon during the clergy communion, to get practice
      where there are people available to critique both content and delivery
      intelligently. This practice is important, but can be hard on both speaker and
      listener. A Russian friend told me of the time her daughter, then a toddler,
      grew impatient as the sermon went on and on and on and on as the poor
      seminarian searched fruitlessly for a way to end it. When he paused for
      breath, the woman's daughter said, emphatically, "Ameen!"

      The seminarian got the hint, the sermon ended, and it was time for the people
      to commune.

      Matushka Ann Lardas
      matanna@...
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    • Malcolm Jenner
      ... Can someone please inform us as to where one might obtain a copy of this work? I have done a provisional arrangement to English words of the melodies for
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 1, 1998
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        At 15:19 30/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
        >I agree with Peter and Daniel. The only place I have seen a collection of
        >all the Communion Hymns with melismatic melodies is in the square-note
        >Slavonic obikhod for Divine Liturgy, reprinted by Vladyka Vitaly in Montreal
        >a few years ago. However, I am not musician enough to attempt their
        >arrangement in English. It would be a great project for someone to do this,
        >then record them for those of us who are musically challenged.
        >

        Can someone please inform us as to where one might obtain a copy of this
        work? I have done a provisional arrangement to English words of the
        melodies for weekdays and Sundays from various versions (both harmonized
        and "square note") that I have available, but I would like to check them
        against other versions before publishing them.


        Archimandrite Kyril Jenner.
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      • Rev. John R. Shaw
        While all of these remedies have something to recommend them, as a priest for going on 23 years I feel the question should also be posed as to why the
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 1, 1998
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          While all of these remedies have something to recommend them, as a priest
          for going on 23 years I feel the question should also be posed as to why
          the celebrant--especially in the absence of a large number of
          clergy--should so prolong the time as to make these remedies necessary. My
          experience has been that the division of the Lamb, the distribution of the
          BOdy and Blood to one priest and deacon, the saying of the presecribed
          prayers before and after the priest's communion, normally can be done
          without hurrying while the choir sings Ps. 33 at a normal rate. The
          blessing of icons, the churching of women and the like, all are
          inappropriate during the Divine Liturgy. Sometimes there may be many
          people for confession, but there is rarely any real justification for
          their making a habit of arriving late so that this cannot be done prior to
          the Divine Liturgy.
          Fr. John R. Shaw

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        • David James
          The Slavonic notnii obikhod (I m sorry, I don t know the proper title) is in two volumes: one for the All-Night Vigil, and the other for the Divine Liturgy.
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 1, 1998
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            The Slavonic "notnii obikhod" (I'm sorry, I don't know the proper title) is
            in two volumes: one for the All-Night Vigil, and the other for the Divine
            Liturgy. It may be obtained from:

            Synod Bookstore
            75 E 93rd St
            New York, NY 10128
            Tel: 212 369-0288
            E-mail: synod@...

            David James
            dmjames@...

            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Malcolm Jenner [SMTP:cm1984@...]
            > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 5:18 AM
            > To: ustav@egroups.com
            > Subject: [ustav] Re: During the Priest's Communio
            >
            > At 15:19 30/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
            > >I agree with Peter and Daniel. The only place I have seen a collection of
            > >all the Communion Hymns with melismatic melodies is in the square-note
            > >Slavonic obikhod for Divine Liturgy, reprinted by Vladyka Vitaly in
            > Montreal
            > >a few years ago. However, I am not musician enough to attempt their
            > >arrangement in English. It would be a great project for someone to do
            > this,
            > >then record them for those of us who are musically challenged.
            > >
            >
            > Can someone please inform us as to where one might obtain a copy of this
            > work? I have done a provisional arrangement to English words of the
            > melodies for weekdays and Sundays from various versions (both harmonized
            > and "square note") that I have available, but I would like to check them
            > against other versions before publishing them.
            >
            >
            > Archimandrite Kyril Jenner.
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > Free Web-based e-mail groups -- http://www.eGroups.com
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          • Serge Keleher
            Archimandrite Kyril (Jenner) asks where one might obtain the square-note Slavonic obikhod for Divine Liturgy, reprinted by Vladyka Vitaly in Montreal a few
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 1, 1998
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              Archimandrite Kyril (Jenner) asks where one might obtain "the square-note
              Slavonic obikhod for Divine Liturgy, reprinted by Vladyka Vitaly in
              Montreal a few years ago." I bought my copy at the bookstore at
              Jordanville; if it's still in print they probably still have it.
              Much of that material, and more besides, was reprinted in a
              square-note Obikhod published at Chevetogne which may also still be in
              print - write to the bookstore at Chevetogne and ask them. They may or may
              not respond to this e-mail address:
              monasterechevetogne@...

              somewhat later Chevetogne also reprinted the square-note music version of
              the Lenten Triodion and the Pentecostarion in one volume.

              (Archimandrite) Serge
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