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black vestments

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  • Markku Kinkki
    Finnish Ortodox Church uses black (very dark blue, some of the parishes) vestments at weekdays during Grear Lent and during Great Week except great Tuersday,
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 1, 2002
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      Finnish Ortodox Church uses black (very dark blue, some of the parishes) vestments at weekdays during Grear Lent and during Great Week except great Tuersday, when we use dark red.

      At saturday of Lazarus some parishes uses white vestments. Does some other parish have this same practice?

      At fist day of pentecost ( day of Holy Trinity) we use white, gold or silver. Second day of pentecost ( day of Holy Spirit) we use bright red vestments. From where gomes green at pentecost?

      Markku Kinkki


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • stephen_r1937
      ... or silver. Second day of pentecost ( day of Holy Spirit) we use bright red vestments. From where gomes green at pentecost? ... Perhaps this comes from
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 1, 2002
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        --- In ustav@y..., "Markku Kinkki" <markku.kinkki@k...> wrote:
        >
        > At fist day of pentecost ( day of Holy Trinity) we use white, gold
        or silver. Second day of pentecost ( day of Holy Spirit) we use
        bright red vestments. From where gomes green at pentecost?
        >
        > Markku Kinkki
        >
        Perhaps this comes from Western influence, specifically the Roman
        color sequence, where green is the default color for the season from
        Pentecost to Advent. The Western churches at one time had quite
        diverse customs governing liturgical colors, but the triumph of
        Ultramontanism in the nineteenth century led to uniformity in the
        Roman patriarchate, and when those churches that had retained colored
        vestments at the time of the Reformation (Anglican and Lutheran)
        revived the custom, also in the nineteenth century or in the
        twentieth, they often assumed that the Roman sequence represented
        their own old custom, which it did not. Only the 'English-Rite'
        school of high-church Anglicans, as far as I can remember, did enough
        research to avoid this mistake.

        Stephen Reynolds
      • srbm73
        ... From where gomes green at pentecost? ... Then again, it may come from the Russian usage of decorating the church w/greens for the feast as well covering
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 1, 2002
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          --- In ustav@y..., "stephen_r1937" <stephen.r@l...> wrote:
          > --- In ustav@y..., "Markku Kinkki" <markku.kinkki@k...> wrote:
          > >
          From where gomes green at pentecost?
          > >
          > > Markku Kinkki
          > >
          > Perhaps this comes from Western influence, specifically the Roman
          > color sequence, where green is the default color for the season from
          > Pentecost to Advent.
          > research to avoid this mistake.
          >
          > Stephen Reynolds

          Then again, it may come from the Russian usage of decorating the
          church w/greens for the feast as well covering the floor of the church
          w/grass and branches. At least one English merchant of the 16th
          century noted this Russian usage at Pentecost in his journal.

          In XC,
          Sergius Miller
        • Timothy Hojnicki
          I read somewhere, that black vestments at funerals started at Peter the Great s (or Peter the eh? ...) funeral where all the serving clergy were vested in
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 1, 2002
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            I read somewhere, that black vestments at funerals started at Peter the
            Great's (or Peter the 'eh?'...) funeral where all the serving clergy were
            vested in black to show mourning... Personally the tradition of white make
            more theological sense as believers. Something very calming to a greif
            stricken person the hear the priest vested in Paschal splendor announce to
            the faithful "May He who Rose from the dead..."

            As for the green vestments, a lot of our older parishioners call Pentecost
            "Green Sunday" due to the green leaves scattered about the church. A priest
            explained that as the Holy Spirit brought new life into the Church on
            Pentecost, so the live greens symbolize this....or something to that effect.

            In Christ,

            Timothy

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          • BAUMGARTH@FORDHAM.EDU
            Christ is in our midst! I am not claiming causalty here, but the custom of the Jews is to decorate the synagogue with greens for the feast of Pentecost. It
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 1, 2002
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              Christ is in our midst!
              I am not claiming causalty here, but the custom of the Jews is to
              decorate the synagogue with greens for the feast of Pentecost. It is, I
              think, one of the few customs connected with the Biblical feast, unlike,
              say, Booths or Passover which have myriad liturgical and paraliturgical
              attendant practices. Certainly this use of green cannot be credited to the
              West, where red is used for Pentecost, its forefeast and former octave.
              Dn Patrick



              "Timothy
              Hojnicki" To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
              <thoj@hotmail cc:
              .com> Subject: Re: [ustav] Re: black vestments

              02/01/02
              01:29 PM
              Please
              respond to
              ustav







              I read somewhere, that black vestments at funerals started at Peter the
              Great's (or Peter the 'eh?'...) funeral where all the serving clergy were
              vested in black to show mourning... Personally the tradition of white make
              more theological sense as believers. Something very calming to a greif
              stricken person the hear the priest vested in Paschal splendor announce to
              the faithful "May He who Rose from the dead..."

              As for the green vestments, a lot of our older parishioners call Pentecost
              "Green Sunday" due to the green leaves scattered about the church. A priest

              explained that as the Holy Spirit brought new life into the Church on
              Pentecost, so the live greens symbolize this....or something to that
              effect.

              In Christ,

              Timothy

              _________________________________________________________________
              Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com




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            • stephen_r1937
              ... the Great s (or Peter the eh? ...) funeral where all the serving clergy were vested in black to show mourning... Personally the tradition of white make
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 2, 2002
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                --- In ustav@y..., "Timothy Hojnicki" <thoj@h...> wrote:
                >
                > I read somewhere, that black vestments at funerals started at Peter
                the Great's (or Peter the 'eh?'...) funeral where all the serving
                clergy were vested in black to show mourning... Personally the
                tradition of white make more theological sense as believers.
                Something very calming to a greif stricken person the hear the priest
                vested in Paschal splendor announce to the faithful "May He who Rose
                from the dead..."

                And if this is right then the possibility of Western influence here
                seems pretty strong.
                >
                > As for the green vestments, a lot of our older parishioners call
                Pentecost "Green Sunday" due to the green leaves scattered about the
                church. A priest explained that as the Holy Spirit brought new life
                into the Church on Pentecost, so the live greens symbolize this....or
                something to that effect.

                DearTimothy,

                Both you and Sergius Miller have suggested this as a possible
                explanation for the green vestments on Pentecost, and it seems quite
                possible. In Carpathian Rus' Pentecost is called _Zeleny Svjatky_
                (also _Rusalja_, just as Pascha is called 'Easter' in English)
                because of the greenery with which the churches, and in this province
                also people's houses, are, or at least were, decorated. (Can anyone
                tell us whether this custom has survived the twentieth century?) It
                is also considered an auspicious day for picking medicinal herbs.

                Stephen Reynolds
              • KO63AP
                ... I can confirm that this has survived amongst Ukrainians in the Diaspora. I haven t seen people s homes decorated, but the churches almost always are.
                Message 7 of 7 , Feb 3, 2002
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                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: stephen_r1937 [mailto:stephen.r@...]
                  > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 2:40 PM
                  > To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [ustav] Re: black vestments
                  >
                  > Both you and Sergius Miller have suggested this as a possible
                  > explanation for the green vestments on Pentecost, and it seems quite
                  > possible. In Carpathian Rus' Pentecost is called _Zeleny Svjatky_
                  > (also _Rusalja_, just as Pascha is called 'Easter' in English)
                  > because of the greenery with which the churches, and in this province
                  > also people's houses, are, or at least were, decorated. (Can anyone
                  > tell us whether this custom has survived the twentieth century?) It
                  > is also considered an auspicious day for picking medicinal herbs.
                  >
                  > Stephen Reynolds
                  >

                  I can confirm that this has survived amongst Ukrainians in the Diaspora. I
                  haven't seen people's homes decorated, but the churches almost always are.

                  Andrij H. Bebko
                  andrij@...
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