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Re: [ustav] Heterodox saints?

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  • Ploverleigh@aol.com
    In a message dated 10/10/01 5:46:45 PM, stephen.r@lycos.com writes: St. Constantiine was baptized on his deathbed. I doubt it was by heretics, given his
    Message 1 of 29 , Oct 31, 2001
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      In a message dated 10/10/01 5:46:45 PM, stephen.r@... writes:

      << >St. Constantiine was baptized on his deathbed. I doubt it was by
      heretics, given his involvement in the 1st council, but I can't confirm that.
      >
      I believe that he was baptized by Eusebius of Nicomedia, who was not an
      Arian, but an "Arian sympathizer"; that is, he belonged to a party that did
      not hold that Our Lord was a created being, but did not want to see the
      Arians condemned for so holding. >>

      And not Pope St. Sylvester, as the Prologue says?
    • Dustin Anastasios Hudson
      ... Sorry to butt into your discussion, I haven t posted on ustav in over a year. but I did a paper on St. Constantine s conversion to Christianity in
      Message 2 of 29 , Nov 1, 2001
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        > And not Pope St. Sylvester, as the Prologue says?

        Sorry to butt into your discussion, I haven't posted on ustav in over
        a year. but I did a paper on St. Constantine's conversion to
        Christianity in college. The idea that St. Sylvester baptised St.
        Constantine is completely false. Since I don't happen to have any
        references from the work sitting at work, if you really are
        interested send me a private email and I'll dig them up.

        That Eusebius of Nicodemia did the baptising on the deathbed is the
        pretty much accepted historical fact.

        In Christ,

        Dustin Anastasios
      • Christian Moulton
        Now, I m woefully ignorant on much of this, but isn t there a little of bad documentation on St. Constantine that was created by some of his enemies? I have
        Message 3 of 29 , Nov 1, 2001
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          Now, I'm woefully ignorant on much of this, but isn't there a little of bad documentation on St. Constantine that was created by some of his enemies? I have no basis for knowing that that was directly tied in with the issue of who baptized him. However, I will say that my initial reaction is to trust St. Nikolai Velimirovic long before I trust a number of "historical documents" if only because I know where St. Nikolai's heart is.

          BTW, Happy Feast of St. John to you all!

          Reader Andrew

          >>> anastasius@... 11/01/01 11:43AM >>>

          > And not Pope St. Sylvester, as the Prologue says?

          Sorry to butt into your discussion, I haven't posted on ustav in over
          a year. but I did a paper on St. Constantine's conversion to
          Christianity in college. The idea that St. Sylvester baptised St.
          Constantine is completely false. Since I don't happen to have any
          references from the work sitting at work, if you really are
          interested send me a private email and I'll dig them up.

          That Eusebius of Nicodemia did the baptising on the deathbed is the
          pretty much accepted historical fact.

          In Christ,

          Dustin Anastasios


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        • Stephen Reynolds
          --Dear Reader Andrew, The story that Pope Sylvester cured Constantine of leprosy and converted and baptized him comes from the _Donation of Constantine_, an
          Message 4 of 29 , Nov 5, 2001
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            --Dear Reader Andrew,

            The story that Pope Sylvester cured Constantine of leprosy and converted and baptized him comes from the _Donation of Constantine_, an eighth-century forgery designed to bolster Papal claims to authority. According to this document, Constantine in gratitude essentially gave the empire to the Pope, who returned it to Constantine as a fief. The document was accepted by pretty nearly everyone as genuine until the fifteenth century, when Lorenzo Valla proved that it was a forgery. But it was not until the end of the eighteenth century that Valla was generally acknowledged to have been correct. No one in this list, I expect, will question that St Nikolai Velimirovic's heart was with God or that his Prologue is a great classic of spiritual literature. On this point he was misinformed--the greatest saints are not infallible about matters of this sort. Since the _Donation of Constantine_ was a charter for papocaesarism, Eastern Christians should feel no obligation to defend it i
            n the face a scholarly consensus that it is in fact a fictitous and propagandistic narrantive.

            Stephen Reynoldws

            On Thu, 01 Nov 2001 11:53:04
            Christian Moulton wrote:
            >Now, I'm woefully ignorant on much of this, but isn't there a little of bad documentation on St. Constantine that was created by some of his enemies? I have no basis for knowing that that was directly tied in with the issue of who baptized him. However, I will say that my initial reaction is to trust St. Nikolai Velimirovic long before I trust a number of "historical documents" if only because I know where St. Nikolai's heart is.
            >
            >BTW, Happy Feast of St. John to you all!
            >
            >Reader Andrew
            >
            >>>> anastasius@... 11/01/01 11:43AM >>>
            >
            >> And not Pope St. Sylvester, as the Prologue says?
            >
            >Sorry to butt into your discussion, I haven't posted on ustav in over
            >a year. but I did a paper on St. Constantine's conversion to
            >Christianity in college. The idea that St. Sylvester baptised St.
            >Constantine is completely false. Since I don't happen to have any
            >references from the work sitting at work, if you really are
            >interested send me a private email and I'll dig them up.
            >
            >That Eusebius of Nicodemia did the baptising on the deathbed is the
            >pretty much accepted historical fact.
            >
            >In Christ,
            >
            >Dustin Anastasios
            >
            >



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