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Re: [usshipsoftheline] Re: Vermont ship of the line model

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  • James Friedman
    I think that in all actually they would have been listed as an 80 because I don t believe the chasers were included in the gun count.   James ... I think that
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 9, 2013
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      I think that in all actually they would have been listed as an 80 because I don't believe the chasers were included in the gun count.
       
      James

      From: alanpara <alanpara@...>
      To: usshipsoftheline@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2013 7:25 PM
      Subject: [usshipsoftheline] Re: Vermont ship of the line model
       
      James,
      In spite of the number of gun ports they were listed as 74's. In fact the New Orleans, a 74, was reported to have been able to carry up to 130 guns. The Constitution, a 44, carried as many as 52 guns.
      Al

      --- In mailto:usshipsoftheline%40yahoogroups.com, James Friedman <thunder1970nn@...> wrote:
      >
      > Al,
      >  
      > In spite of the label for the Vermont model, she is an 84 not a 74. That's also the number I came up with countint the gun ports and includes the 2 bow chasers & the 4 stern chasers.
      >  
      > James
      >
      >
      > >________________________________
      > > From: alanpara <alanpara@...>
      > >To: mailto:usshipsoftheline%40yahoogroups.com
      > >Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 11:47 PM
      > >Subject: [usshipsoftheline] Vermont ship of the line model
      > >
      > >
      > > 
      > >
      > >My name is Al and I am a brand new member. I am a 24 year Navy vet and have been interested in American ships of the line for about four years. I bought the model Vermont about two weeks ago at an auction in Dallas. I have posted some pictures of it in an album. If anyone might have an idea who built it I would love to know. My pictures are not great but it is a very high quality model and the workmanship is superb. I cannot find anywhere on it where the builder might have put his name. I will post better pictures when I can get it outside under better light.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >

    • alanpara
      All the American ships of the line, except Pennsylvania, were authorized, designed and listed as 74 s. North Carolina was listed as a 74 and was pierced for
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 9, 2013
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        All the American ships of the line, except Pennsylvania, were authorized, designed and listed as 74's. North Carolina was listed as a 74 and was pierced for 102 guns. The list that has them listed as 84 gun ships may be a mistake, I've never seen anything official that lists an American ship as an 84. All the ships on that list were 74's. They are listed as 74's in Chappelle, Canney, Shiflett and the Naval History Division publication "American Ships of the Line."
        Al

        --- In usshipsoftheline@yahoogroups.com, James Friedman <thunder1970nn@...> wrote:
        >
        > I think that in all actually they would have been listed as an 80 because I don't believe the chasers were included in the gun count.
        >  
        > James
        >
        >
        > >________________________________
        > > From: alanpara <alanpara@...>
        > >To: usshipsoftheline@yahoogroups.com
        > >Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2013 7:25 PM
        > >Subject: [usshipsoftheline] Re: Vermont ship of the line model
        > >
        > >
        > > 
        > >
        > >James,
        > >In spite of the number of gun ports they were listed as 74's. In fact the New Orleans, a 74, was reported to have been able to carry up to 130 guns. The Constitution, a 44, carried as many as 52 guns.
        > >Al
        > >
        > >--- In mailto:usshipsoftheline%40yahoogroups.com, James Friedman <thunder1970nn@> wrote:
        > >>
        > >> Al,
        > >>  
        > >> In spite of the label for the Vermont model, she is an 84 not a 74. That's also the number I came up with countint the gun ports and includes the 2 bow chasers & the 4 stern chasers.
        > >>  
        > >> James
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> >________________________________
        > >> > From: alanpara <alanpara@>
        > >> >To: mailto:usshipsoftheline%40yahoogroups.com
        > >> >Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 11:47 PM
        > >> >Subject: [usshipsoftheline] Vermont ship of the line model
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> > 
        > >> >
        > >> >My name is Al and I am a brand new member. I am a 24 year Navy vet and have been interested in American ships of the line for about four years. I bought the model Vermont about two weeks ago at an auction in Dallas. I have posted some pictures of it in an album. If anyone might have an idea who built it I would love to know. My pictures are not great but it is a very high quality model and the workmanship is superb. I cannot find anywhere on it where the builder might have put his name. I will post better pictures when I can get it outside under better light.
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • Hugh Donald Curran
        I believe the disparity as to the differences in number of guns in rating category as to the actual guns on board was the result of breakthroughs in Naval
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 9, 2013
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          I believe the disparity as to the differences in number of guns in rating category as to the actual guns on board was the result of breakthroughs in Naval Ordinance which provided superior fire power with less and lighter cannons and naval rifles.

          Best Regards
          Hugh Curran
          On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 7:59 PM, alanpara <alanpara@...> wrote:
           

          All the American ships of the line, except Pennsylvania, were authorized, designed and listed as 74's. North Carolina was listed as a 74 and was pierced for 102 guns. The list that has them listed as 84 gun ships may be a mistake, I've never seen anything official that lists an American ship as an 84. All the ships on that list were 74's. They are listed as 74's in Chappelle, Canney, Shiflett and the Naval History Division publication "American Ships of the Line."
          Al

          --- In usshipsoftheline@yahoogroups.com, James Friedman <thunder1970nn@...> wrote:
          >
          > I think that in all actually they would have been listed as an 80 because I don't believe the chasers were included in the gun count.
          >  
          > James
          >
          >
          > >________________________________
          > > From: alanpara <alanpara@...>
          > >To: usshipsoftheline@yahoogroups.com
          > >Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2013 7:25 PM
          > >Subject: [usshipsoftheline] Re: Vermont ship of the line model
          > >
          > >
          > > 
          > >
          > >James,
          > >In spite of the number of gun ports they were listed as 74's. In fact the New Orleans, a 74, was reported to have been able to carry up to 130 guns. The Constitution, a 44, carried as many as 52 guns.
          > >Al
          > >
          > >--- In mailto:usshipsoftheline%40yahoogroups.com, James Friedman <thunder1970nn@> wrote:
          > >>
          > >> Al,
          > >>  
          > >> In spite of the label for the Vermont model, she is an 84 not a 74. That's also the number I came up with countint the gun ports and includes the 2 bow chasers & the 4 stern chasers.
          > >>  
          > >> James
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> >________________________________
          > >> > From: alanpara <alanpara@>
          > >> >To: mailto:usshipsoftheline%40yahoogroups.com
          > >> >Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 11:47 PM
          > >> >Subject: [usshipsoftheline] Vermont ship of the line model
          > >> >
          > >> >
          > >> > 
          > >> >
          > >> >My name is Al and I am a brand new member. I am a 24 year Navy vet and have been interested in American ships of the line for about four years. I bought the model Vermont about two weeks ago at an auction in Dallas. I have posted some pictures of it in an album. If anyone might have an idea who built it I would love to know. My pictures are not great but it is a very high quality model and the workmanship is superb. I cannot find anywhere on it where the builder might have put his name. I will post better pictures when I can get it outside under better light.
          > >> >
          > >> >
          > >> >
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >


        • alanpara
          Hugh, That is true and also, each individual Captain had leeway in arming his ship. Most chose to add more guns. I just did some more reading and Constitution,
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 9, 2013
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            Hugh,
            That is true and also, each individual Captain had leeway in arming his ship. Most chose to add more guns. I just did some more reading and Constitution, rated as a 44, carried as many as 56 guns. Even though she was rated a frigate, she was armed more like a light ship of the line.
            Al

            --- In usshipsoftheline@yahoogroups.com, Hugh Donald Curran <hughdonald@...> wrote:
            >
            > I believe the disparity as to the differences in number of guns in
            > rating category as to the actual guns on board was the result of
            > breakthroughs in Naval Ordinance which provided superior fire power with
            > less and lighter cannons and naval rifles.
            >
            > Best Regards
            > Hugh Curran
            > On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 7:59 PM, alanpara <alanpara@...> wrote:
            >
            > > **
            > >
            > >
            > > All the American ships of the line, except Pennsylvania, were authorized,
            > > designed and listed as 74's. North Carolina was listed as a 74 and was
            > > pierced for 102 guns. The list that has them listed as 84 gun ships may be
            > > a mistake, I've never seen anything official that lists an American ship as
            > > an 84. All the ships on that list were 74's. They are listed as 74's in
            > > Chappelle, Canney, Shiflett and the Naval History Division publication
            > > "American Ships of the Line."
            > > Al
            > >
            > > --- In usshipsoftheline@yahoogroups.com, James Friedman <thunder1970nn@>
            > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I think that in all actually they would have been listed as an 80
            > > because I don't believe the chasers were included in the gun count.
            > > > Â
            > > > James
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > >________________________________
            > > > > From: alanpara <alanpara@>
            > > > >To: usshipsoftheline@yahoogroups.com
            > > > >Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2013 7:25 PM
            > > > >Subject: [usshipsoftheline] Re: Vermont ship of the line model
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >Â
            > > > >
            > > > >James,
            > > > >In spite of the number of gun ports they were listed as 74's. In fact
            > > the New Orleans, a 74, was reported to have been able to carry up to 130
            > > guns. The Constitution, a 44, carried as many as 52 guns.
            > > > >Al
            > > > >
            > > > >--- In mailto:usshipsoftheline%40yahoogroups.com, James Friedman
            > > <thunder1970nn@> wrote:
            > > > >>
            > > > >> Al,
            > > > >> ÂÂ
            > > > >> In spite of the label for the Vermont model, she is an 84 not a 74.
            > > That's also the number I came up with countint the gun ports and includes
            > > the 2 bow chasers & the 4 stern chasers.
            > > > >> ÂÂ
            > > > >> James
            > > > >>
            > > > >>
            > > > >> >________________________________
            > > > >> > From: alanpara <alanpara@>
            > > > >> >To: mailto:usshipsoftheline%40yahoogroups.com
            > > > >> >Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 11:47 PM
            > > > >> >Subject: [usshipsoftheline] Vermont ship of the line model
            > > > >> >
            > > > >> >
            > > > >> >ÂÂ
            > > > >> >
            > > > >> >My name is Al and I am a brand new member. I am a 24 year Navy vet
            > > and have been interested in American ships of the line for about four
            > > years. I bought the model Vermont about two weeks ago at an auction in
            > > Dallas. I have posted some pictures of it in an album. If anyone might have
            > > an idea who built it I would love to know. My pictures are not great but it
            > > is a very high quality model and the workmanship is superb. I cannot find
            > > anywhere on it where the builder might have put his name. I will post
            > > better pictures when I can get it outside under better light.
            > > > >> >
            > > > >> >
            > > > >> >
            > > > >>
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
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