Re: [usa-tesla] RF Transmission Direction & the List
- <snip to>
> NO ONE ON THIS LIST SHOULD MAKE FUN OF THE FACT THAT
> I OR ANYONE ELSE SAYS HE 'DOESN'T KNOW THE ANSWER WITHOUT
> HAVING TO DO SOME RESEARCH'.
> After all, Tesla was CONTINUALLY doing research.
Perhaps I'm being over sensitive, but I think that may possibly have been
aimed in my direction.
To my recollection, I had put onto the list, an explantaion of the Faraday disk
motor/generator. A statement was made -not even sure it was you- to the effect
that (kinda quote) "if I know the answer right off, I'll say so, but if it
requires study I probably won't."
I have no quibble here. But my solution was *not* accepted, and I kind of
ferreted out that the person talking had not even LOOKED at my solution (at
that time), but had knoocked both it and me.
My point is, if an idea is advanced and it is not understood, it's perfectly OK
not to study it. But *not* to Knock the idea without reading it and trying to
- Bill Wysock mentioned this story about Tesla & Mark Twain during one of his
demonstrations at a Tesla Symposium -- i think it was in 1988. He said that
he had seen the same effect with some of his volunteers, and was careful to
limit the amount of time anyone was on the platform.
He had one of his coils rigged up so a volunteer could sit on it. Then the
lights would go out, a million volts of electricity would run through him,
and lightning would come out of his fingers. Pretty impressive show.
At 08:24 PM 7/31/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Jim, J. B. and all,loosened the
>Somewhere I read/heard that this was a vibrating platform... the
>vibrations apparently did the trick... :^)
>Similar to some low frequency sonic weapons being experimented with in
>some countries (France?) for crowd control... with similar effect. Sort
>of hard to riot under those circumstances... :^)
>-- Bert --
>Jim Farrer wrote:
>> J.B. just raised a point *today* about Tesla's 'machine' (loosely) which
>> bowels of Mark Twain. If we are so far ahead of Tesla, and understandeverything he
>> did, please explain THAT one!-- Michael Riversong **
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Professional Harpist, Educator, and Writer **
RivEdu@... ** Phone: (307)635-0900 FAX (413)691-0399
- Michael and all,
National Geographic featured a number of notable Coilers in their July,
1993 Issue on "Lightning". Bill Wysock and Richard Hull were among them.
One picture shows Bill sitting on top of an insulated metal platform which
is connected to a large Tesla coil. Bill is holding a metal rod with long
(3 foot?) sparks issuing from the far end of the rod. Brent Turner has a
similar picture of him doing the same stunt on his web site. The current
flowing through the streamers is sufficient to light a small tungsten light
bulb. For those interested in seeing a copy of this picture, go to:
To see Brent Turner doing this and other HV stunts, look at BRENT1.JPG
through BRENT5.JPG at his web site:
-- Bert --
Web Site: http://www.teslamania.com
Michael Riversong wrote:
> Bill Wysock mentioned this story about Tesla & Mark Twain during one of his
> demonstrations at a Tesla Symposium -- i think it was in 1988. He said that
> he had seen the same effect with some of his volunteers, and was careful to
> limit the amount of time anyone was on the platform.
> He had one of his coils rigged up so a volunteer could sit on it. Then the
> lights would go out, a million volts of electricity would run through him,
> and lightning would come out of his fingers. Pretty impressive show.
> At 08:24 PM 7/31/01 -0500, you wrote:
> >Jim, J. B. and all,
> >Somewhere I read/heard that this was a vibrating platform... the
> >vibrations apparently did the trick... :^)
> >Similar to some low frequency sonic weapons being experimented with in
> >some countries (France?) for crowd control... with similar effect. Sort
> >of hard to riot under those circumstances... :^)
> >-- Bert --
> >Jim Farrer wrote:
> >> J.B. just raised a point *today* about Tesla's 'machine' (loosely) which
> loosened the
> >> bowels of Mark Twain. If we are so far ahead of Tesla, and understand
> everything he
> >> did, please explain THAT one!
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> -- Michael Riversong **
> Professional Harpist, Educator, and Writer **
> RivEdu@... ** Phone: (307)635-0900 FAX (413)691-0399
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
- Jim Farrer wrote:
> <snip to>
> > NO ONE ON THIS LIST SHOULD MAKE FUN OF THE FACT THAT
> > I OR ANYONE ELSE SAYS HE 'DOESN'T KNOW THE ANSWER WITHOUT
> > HAVING TO DO SOME RESEARCH'.
> > After all, Tesla was CONTINUALLY doing research.
> <snip from>
> Perhaps I'm being over sensitive, but I think that may possibly have been
> aimed in my direction.
> To my recollection, I had put onto the list, an explantaion of the Faraday disk
> motor/generator. A statement was made -not even sure it was you- to the effect
> that (kinda quote) "if I know the answer right off, I'll say so, but if it
> requires study I probably won't."
Thank you for your note.
As I recall I, for one, did write the words you mention.
There may have been others, but those sound like my words.
I stand by them.
>I sure hope that wasn't me. I have been known to knock ideas
> I have no quibble here. But my solution was *not* accepted, and I kind of
> ferreted out that the person talking had not even LOOKED at my solution (at
> that time), but had knoocked both it and me.
and the 'foolishness' of those who hold them (i.e., holding an
idea without doing the requisite research first).
>Agreed, but I *could* knock (a little bit) the idea based on
> My point is, if an idea is advanced and it is not understood, it's perfectly OK
> not to study it. But *not* to Knock the idea without reading it and trying to
> understand it.
my reading only a precis or abstract of it. If the precis/
abstract is any good, then I think that's almost fair, at least.
I have thought about some experiments in clarifying the
(what some would consider unbelievable) effects described
on the webpage I cited in a previous post about the problem
of the rotating cylindrical magnet not generating a voltage
in the stationary copper disk. However, I am sure that other
researchers/thinkers have devised the same experiments simply
because they are so obvious, and some folks probably even have
carried out these experiments. I have done things *close*
to that myself, but not that exact experiment.
We believe that the laws of physics should be the same
in all inertial frames. But that requires careful thinking.
The curios thing about the homopolar generator is trying
to get the different 'inertial frames' straight in one's
mind. When the magnet AND the copper disk rotate together,
and a voltage is supposedly measured (by the observer) between
the edge of the disk and the center rod, it is interesting to
note that the observer and his measuring 'brushes' are standing
still, as it were, and this is defining the prime inertial frame.
Also, it is reported that if the disk is stationary wrt the
observer and the brushes, that the magnet can rotate and no
voltage is picked up (I haven't tried this - I am just
echoing what was on the webpage I cited in a previous post).
Keep that last setup in mind. Now if a different inertial
frame could be designed, different from the one we just
discussed where the disk and brushes were stationary and the
magnet moved and the brushes picked up no voltage, then in
this second inertial frame the observer and the rotating magnet
were in step with each other. The magnet would appear
stationary to the observer. The disk would be rotating
**and so would the brush assembly**. In this case, what
should be picked up on the measurement device? Should the
observer measure any voltage between the brushes?
And then we can imagine yet another inertial frame in which
the magnet and disk are stationary and the brush assembly
moves. This **ought** to be identical to the situation
where the brush assembly is stationary and the magnet and
disk move together and where it is said that voltage is
produced. But *is* it the same? I don't know, I'd have to
do some research or do the experiments myself. No time for
that right now nor in the forseeable future. I welcome
others to experiment for us (but note that I am not demanding
I feel confident that in the last hundred or more years
someone must have already tried this. This is why an
exhaustive literature search is called for - even if the
problem seems simple.
If it makes Jim any happier, I apologize for my not having
all the answers.
.. Fred Bach music@... Opinions are only mine.
- See ===>>JSF 8/15/01
Great fun reading this. A few comments below.
Jet Black wrote:
>===>>JSF 8/15/01 Teachers, principals, and classmates all despised me too,
> > As I recently said on the ELFRAD list, I don't know everything.
> But what about in real life Fred ? Applied "stuff" how do you rate ?
> People I know , _do_ think I know everything , possibly because they can't
> ask me a question I don't know the answer to or can quickly figure it out
> the answer in my head < & yes I know a few scientists here>
> By using high school & trade education , I have a vast general knowledge
> <first noted by my primary school principal , who despised me @ age 11>
but just becuz I couldn't keep my big yap shut in class. Found everything
to be funny. Haven't changed much in the intervening 60 years, have I.
> of all things , lateral thinking , & a strong belief that if all the parts are===>>JSF 8/15/01 Would you believe 100? I hope its just 40!
> there , the right tools & mind's are at hand "it can be done" , I still
> maintain nothing is impossible.
> People will be laughing at our knowledge of all things "scientific" 400
> years from now , just as we laughed at the knowledge & backward thinking of===>>JSF 8/15/01 Would be nice to know if this favoring is by 76% or 76 X
> the smartest people around the time James Watt decided to "modify" the
> model steam engine he had been given to run backwards using some lateral
> thinking he made the engine run like a demon , thus really putting a boot
> into the start of the "industrial revolution" (?? possibly wrong
> revolution) If anyone has not read the story of the developement of the
> steam engine I suggest you do , it started as a soup maker , believe it or not.
> > I just learned something the other day about the ionosphere
> > and how it favours RF transmission more east than west. ...fwb.
> Do you think that this phenomena has something to do with the direction of
> the earths rotation ?
10^15 %. Since the air is *relatively* at rest with the rotating earth,
It eludes me as to why this favoring exists.
> I'm not an ionisphere "dweller" or user but it would be nice to know that===>>JSF 8/15/01 I'm actually worried about trying Tesla coil experiments,
> there either is or is not a connection.
> Will , you do things up in the ionisphere with the HAM radio's ???
> I tend to concurr with Jim about the list's state , in years gone by people
> have contributed great knowledge to one of my <slightly dangerous> idea's
> , such as attracting a full or partial bolt of lightning <easy part> then
> trying to hold that energy for later use or to resell to the local
> electrical supplier. The comments and idea's that came out of the
> discussion helped me understand what I was up against & have been filed &
> stored on a CD , when I can find a suitable & safe area to do this fringe
> type of experiment , the file will be found , re-read & seriously
> re-engineered to suit the proposed field work , when it does something
> will come out of it , worst case scenario , would be the most magnificient
> footage ever shot of a groundstrike , (sorry about the tree) best case
> scenario a useable amount of the energy does get stored and the sacrificial
> fuses in the device get fried like nothing else ever has before.
due to the expensive amount of electronic equipment I (and my *neighbors*) own.
Have a really nice oscilloscope I'd just hate myself for burning it out. Yuk!
>===>>JSF 8/15/01 My camcorder is a big old Panasonic, sits on shoulder, houses
> On "filming" , I can now say goodbye to 8 , 16 & 35 mm film , the beginning
> of the end for those fun to use but big & bulky pro Panasonic cameras ,
> getting the rushes done & all the other crap involved with this annoying
> celluloid menace , the first handheld DVD Video Camcorder has been
> released by Hitachi ($4K or $8K AUD so it is affordable), it won't take
> Sony & other DVD tech co's long to bring out something much better by Xmas
> or the new year.
regular 2 hr VHS cassettes, has 8:1 zoom lens with macro focusing right up to
the front element. Gets REAL nice flower closeups, unbelievably sharp.
Recently purchased DAZZLE's Video Creator II, which permits reading in of
regular VHS cassettes which can then be edited, sent back out to VHS cassette,
or sent out on the internet. I have three 2 hour cassettes on my hard drive
right now, which take up about 8 gigs of space. Works well; all of the many
program bugs can be gotten around. Prints out nice 8 X 10 pics of single
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> From JimMy camcorder (one of a few actually) comes in a few seperate pieces ,a
>===>>JSF 8/15/01 My camcorder is a big old Panasonic, sits on shoulder, houses
>regular 2 hr VHS cassettes, has 8:1 zoom lens with macro focusing right up to
>the front element. Gets REAL nice flower closeups, unbelievably sharp.
panasonic too I think, if you ever saw one in it's heyday you'd remember
it , it has a standalone VHS video recorder/player (with shoulder strap)
& a hefty 12VDC NiCad battery mounted inside to power it or it can be run
off mains power (I need to make a new NiCad as the existing one is dead) it
has every audio/video , input/output known to man at the time RCA BNC &
PL259 (??the old CB radio coax connectors) plus 2 x 5 pin plug in pistol
grip video cameras with motorized zoom lenses all in good working order ,
with a very small B&W TV monitor (flyback transformer & all) to look
through to see what your filming , as Jim mentioned the lenses on these old
camera's are great ,ones good for closeups the other has more of a
telephoto lense there is also some sort of heating element inside of it so
I handle them with care usually on tripods ,both have external microphones
as well as assorted auxilary plugins on the camera the only bigger
"portable" video camera I've seen was one made by sony , it had wheels on
it & filmed in B&W
I have held onto this and other units like my pioneer 8 track tape
player/recorder (plus tapes), an Onkyo Quadrophonic system , Grundig all
valve , 16 to 78 rpm "stereogram" with a very broadband radio reciever for
a number of years now , I could not bear to throw these "clunky" classics
away , they have no real commercial value , I just knew I had to keep them
for "the future" as they will never make these things again.
Tomorrow the reason for keeping them will arrive in the form of an 800Htz
Celeron 256Mb 40Gig HD , high speed samsung CD Read Writer , 32MB TNT
video card , probably with a DVD player and another dual video capture card
I have .Notes will be made on the inputs & outputs of each machine
(especially the quadrophonic amp , very interesting outputs on it ) and
they will all get connected to this "well loaded" box in my dedicated "war
room" in the new house.The "war room" will be totally isolated from the
other house electricals by a 20Amp /phase 3 phase isolation
transformer/voltage regulator I picked up as a spoil of war , when I was
able to lift & move 80 Kilo objects over 100 meters up and down flights of
stairs with ease.
The end result ??? who knows , hopefully some very interesting CD's to post
out to a few of you pending on your preferences , be them audio or visual
, scientific or recreational.
Lack of processing power HD space etc etc has limited , no stifled , my
ability to create and distribute my "art" & scientific projects in a
format & quality I'm happy with for a _long_ time , although realistically
it's going to still take 6 months for the setup to be permanently setup &
drive it all properly the end result should be worth it ( I have plenty of
8 track classics but lack quality quad records) fitting them all together &
avoiding earth hums could be a problem , but I'm hopeing the sync lock
generator will help me join them all together and have them working in harmony
>Recently purchased DAZZLE's Video Creator II, which permits reading in ofso your getting 6hrs onto 8GB , what frame rate's & sound quality are you
>regular VHS cassettes which can then be edited, sent back out to VHS cassette,
>or sent out on the internet. I have three 2 hour cassettes on my hard drive
>right now, which take up about 8 gigs of space. Works well; all of the many
>program bugs can be gotten around. Prints out nice 8 X 10 pics of single
recording at ?
I know it will probably take up more space when using my newer _much_
lighter PAL format super8 or digital video camera's as they have a higher
resolution than NTSC.I'll take a look at the dazzle site in 12 to 18 hrs ,
it's been a long , but fruitful day....