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Re: [usa-tesla] RF Transmission Direction & the List

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  • Jim Farrer
    ... Perhaps I m being over sensitive, but I think that may possibly have been aimed in my direction. To my recollection, I had put onto
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 3, 2001
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      <snip to>
      >
      > NO ONE ON THIS LIST SHOULD MAKE FUN OF THE FACT THAT
      > I OR ANYONE ELSE SAYS HE 'DOESN'T KNOW THE ANSWER WITHOUT
      > HAVING TO DO SOME RESEARCH'.
      >
      > After all, Tesla was CONTINUALLY doing research.
      >
      <snip from>

      Perhaps I'm being over sensitive, but I think that may possibly have been
      aimed in my direction.

      To my recollection, I had put onto the list, an explantaion of the Faraday disk
      motor/generator. A statement was made -not even sure it was you- to the effect
      that (kinda quote) "if I know the answer right off, I'll say so, but if it
      requires study I probably won't."

      I have no quibble here. But my solution was *not* accepted, and I kind of
      ferreted out that the person talking had not even LOOKED at my solution (at
      that time), but had knoocked both it and me.

      My point is, if an idea is advanced and it is not understood, it's perfectly OK
      not to study it. But *not* to Knock the idea without reading it and trying to
      understand it.

      Jim Farrer
    • Michael Riversong
      Bill Wysock mentioned this story about Tesla & Mark Twain during one of his demonstrations at a Tesla Symposium -- i think it was in 1988. He said that he had
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 5, 2001
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        Bill Wysock mentioned this story about Tesla & Mark Twain during one of his
        demonstrations at a Tesla Symposium -- i think it was in 1988. He said that
        he had seen the same effect with some of his volunteers, and was careful to
        limit the amount of time anyone was on the platform.

        He had one of his coils rigged up so a volunteer could sit on it. Then the
        lights would go out, a million volts of electricity would run through him,
        and lightning would come out of his fingers. Pretty impressive show.

        At 08:24 PM 7/31/01 -0500, you wrote:
        >Jim, J. B. and all,
        >
        >Somewhere I read/heard that this was a vibrating platform... the
        >vibrations apparently did the trick... :^)
        >
        >Similar to some low frequency sonic weapons being experimented with in
        >some countries (France?) for crowd control... with similar effect. Sort
        >of hard to riot under those circumstances... :^)
        >
        >-- Bert --
        >
        >Jim Farrer wrote:
        ><SNIP>
        >>
        >> J.B. just raised a point *today* about Tesla's 'machine' (loosely) which
        loosened the
        >> bowels of Mark Twain. If we are so far ahead of Tesla, and understand
        everything he
        >> did, please explain THAT one!
        ><SNIP>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
        -- Michael Riversong **
        Professional Harpist, Educator, and Writer **
        RivEdu@... ** Phone: (307)635-0900 FAX (413)691-0399
        http://home.earthlink.net/~mriversong
      • Bert Hickman
        Michael and all, National Geographic featured a number of notable Coilers in their July, 1993 Issue on Lightning . Bill Wysock and Richard Hull were among
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 5, 2001
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          Michael and all,

          National Geographic featured a number of notable Coilers in their July,
          1993 Issue on "Lightning". Bill Wysock and Richard Hull were among them.
          One picture shows Bill sitting on top of an insulated metal platform which
          is connected to a large Tesla coil. Bill is holding a metal rod with long
          (3 foot?) sparks issuing from the far end of the rod. Brent Turner has a
          similar picture of him doing the same stunt on his web site. The current
          flowing through the streamers is sufficient to light a small tungsten light
          bulb. For those interested in seeing a copy of this picture, go to:

          http://www.aquila.net/bert.hickman/photos/NatGeogPic1.gif

          To see Brent Turner doing this and other HV stunts, look at BRENT1.JPG
          through BRENT5.JPG at his web site:
          http://www.geocities.com/fubarque99/index.html

          Enjoy!

          -- Bert --
          --
          Bert Hickman
          Stoneridge Engineering
          Email: bert.hickman@...
          Web Site: http://www.teslamania.com

          Michael Riversong wrote:
          >
          > Bill Wysock mentioned this story about Tesla & Mark Twain during one of his
          > demonstrations at a Tesla Symposium -- i think it was in 1988. He said that
          > he had seen the same effect with some of his volunteers, and was careful to
          > limit the amount of time anyone was on the platform.
          >
          > He had one of his coils rigged up so a volunteer could sit on it. Then the
          > lights would go out, a million volts of electricity would run through him,
          > and lightning would come out of his fingers. Pretty impressive show.
          >
          > At 08:24 PM 7/31/01 -0500, you wrote:
          > >Jim, J. B. and all,
          > >
          > >Somewhere I read/heard that this was a vibrating platform... the
          > >vibrations apparently did the trick... :^)
          > >
          > >Similar to some low frequency sonic weapons being experimented with in
          > >some countries (France?) for crowd control... with similar effect. Sort
          > >of hard to riot under those circumstances... :^)
          > >
          > >-- Bert --
          > >
          > >Jim Farrer wrote:
          > ><SNIP>
          > >>
          > >> J.B. just raised a point *today* about Tesla's 'machine' (loosely) which
          > loosened the
          > >> bowels of Mark Twain. If we are so far ahead of Tesla, and understand
          > everything he
          > >> did, please explain THAT one!
          > ><SNIP>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > -- Michael Riversong **
          > Professional Harpist, Educator, and Writer **
          > RivEdu@... ** Phone: (307)635-0900 FAX (413)691-0399
          > http://home.earthlink.net/~mriversong
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • Fred Bach
          ... Jim, Thank you for your note. As I recall I, for one, did write the words you mention. There may have been others, but those sound like my words. I stand
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 6, 2001
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            Jim Farrer wrote:
            >
            > <snip to>
            > >
            > > NO ONE ON THIS LIST SHOULD MAKE FUN OF THE FACT THAT
            > > I OR ANYONE ELSE SAYS HE 'DOESN'T KNOW THE ANSWER WITHOUT
            > > HAVING TO DO SOME RESEARCH'.
            > >
            > > After all, Tesla was CONTINUALLY doing research.
            > >
            > <snip from>
            >
            > Perhaps I'm being over sensitive, but I think that may possibly have been
            > aimed in my direction.
            >
            > To my recollection, I had put onto the list, an explantaion of the Faraday disk
            > motor/generator. A statement was made -not even sure it was you- to the effect
            > that (kinda quote) "if I know the answer right off, I'll say so, but if it
            > requires study I probably won't."

            Jim,

            Thank you for your note.

            As I recall I, for one, did write the words you mention.
            There may have been others, but those sound like my words.
            I stand by them.

            >
            > I have no quibble here. But my solution was *not* accepted, and I kind of
            > ferreted out that the person talking had not even LOOKED at my solution (at
            > that time), but had knoocked both it and me.


            I sure hope that wasn't me. I have been known to knock ideas
            and the 'foolishness' of those who hold them (i.e., holding an
            idea without doing the requisite research first).


            >
            > My point is, if an idea is advanced and it is not understood, it's perfectly OK
            > not to study it. But *not* to Knock the idea without reading it and trying to
            > understand it.


            Agreed, but I *could* knock (a little bit) the idea based on
            my reading only a precis or abstract of it. If the precis/
            abstract is any good, then I think that's almost fair, at least.

            ******

            I have thought about some experiments in clarifying the
            (what some would consider unbelievable) effects described
            on the webpage I cited in a previous post about the problem
            of the rotating cylindrical magnet not generating a voltage
            in the stationary copper disk. However, I am sure that other
            researchers/thinkers have devised the same experiments simply
            because they are so obvious, and some folks probably even have
            carried out these experiments. I have done things *close*
            to that myself, but not that exact experiment.


            We believe that the laws of physics should be the same
            in all inertial frames. But that requires careful thinking.
            The curios thing about the homopolar generator is trying
            to get the different 'inertial frames' straight in one's
            mind. When the magnet AND the copper disk rotate together,
            and a voltage is supposedly measured (by the observer) between
            the edge of the disk and the center rod, it is interesting to
            note that the observer and his measuring 'brushes' are standing
            still, as it were, and this is defining the prime inertial frame.

            Also, it is reported that if the disk is stationary wrt the
            observer and the brushes, that the magnet can rotate and no
            voltage is picked up (I haven't tried this - I am just
            echoing what was on the webpage I cited in a previous post).

            Keep that last setup in mind. Now if a different inertial
            frame could be designed, different from the one we just
            discussed where the disk and brushes were stationary and the
            magnet moved and the brushes picked up no voltage, then in
            this second inertial frame the observer and the rotating magnet
            were in step with each other. The magnet would appear
            stationary to the observer. The disk would be rotating
            **and so would the brush assembly**. In this case, what
            should be picked up on the measurement device? Should the
            observer measure any voltage between the brushes?

            And then we can imagine yet another inertial frame in which
            the magnet and disk are stationary and the brush assembly
            moves. This **ought** to be identical to the situation
            where the brush assembly is stationary and the magnet and
            disk move together and where it is said that voltage is
            produced. But *is* it the same? I don't know, I'd have to
            do some research or do the experiments myself. No time for
            that right now nor in the forseeable future. I welcome
            others to experiment for us (but note that I am not demanding
            it).

            I feel confident that in the last hundred or more years
            someone must have already tried this. This is why an
            exhaustive literature search is called for - even if the
            problem seems simple.

            If it makes Jim any happier, I apologize for my not having
            all the answers.

            .. Fred Bach music@... Opinions are only mine.
          • Jim Farrer
            See === JSF 8/15/01 Great fun reading this. A few comments below. ... === JSF 8/15/01 Teachers, principals, and classmates all despised me too, but just
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 14, 2001
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              See ===>>JSF 8/15/01
              Great fun reading this. A few comments below.

              Jet Black wrote:
              >
              > >
              > >
              > > As I recently said on the ELFRAD list, I don't know everything.
              >
              > But what about in real life Fred ? Applied "stuff" how do you rate ?
              > People I know , _do_ think I know everything , possibly because they can't
              > ask me a question I don't know the answer to or can quickly figure it out
              > the answer in my head < & yes I know a few scientists here>
              > By using high school & trade education , I have a vast general knowledge
              > <first noted by my primary school principal , who despised me @ age 11>

              ===>>JSF 8/15/01 Teachers, principals, and classmates all despised me too,
              but just becuz I couldn't keep my big yap shut in class. Found everything
              to be funny. Haven't changed much in the intervening 60 years, have I.

              > of all things , lateral thinking , & a strong belief that if all the parts are
              > there , the right tools & mind's are at hand "it can be done" , I still
              > maintain nothing is impossible.
              > People will be laughing at our knowledge of all things "scientific" 400

              ===>>JSF 8/15/01 Would you believe 100? I hope its just 40!

              > years from now , just as we laughed at the knowledge & backward thinking of
              > the smartest people around the time James Watt decided to "modify" the
              > model steam engine he had been given to run backwards using some lateral
              > thinking he made the engine run like a demon , thus really putting a boot
              > into the start of the "industrial revolution" (?? possibly wrong
              > revolution) If anyone has not read the story of the developement of the
              > steam engine I suggest you do , it started as a soup maker , believe it or not.
              >
              > > I just learned something the other day about the ionosphere
              > > and how it favours RF transmission more east than west. ...fwb.
              >
              > Do you think that this phenomena has something to do with the direction of
              > the earths rotation ?

              ===>>JSF 8/15/01 Would be nice to know if this favoring is by 76% or 76 X
              10^15 %. Since the air is *relatively* at rest with the rotating earth,
              It eludes me as to why this favoring exists.

              > I'm not an ionisphere "dweller" or user but it would be nice to know that
              > there either is or is not a connection.
              >
              > Will , you do things up in the ionisphere with the HAM radio's ???
              >
              > I tend to concurr with Jim about the list's state , in years gone by people
              > have contributed great knowledge to one of my <slightly dangerous> idea's
              > , such as attracting a full or partial bolt of lightning <easy part> then
              > trying to hold that energy for later use or to resell to the local
              > electrical supplier. The comments and idea's that came out of the
              > discussion helped me understand what I was up against & have been filed &
              > stored on a CD , when I can find a suitable & safe area to do this fringe
              > type of experiment , the file will be found , re-read & seriously
              > re-engineered to suit the proposed field work , when it does something
              > will come out of it , worst case scenario , would be the most magnificient
              > footage ever shot of a groundstrike , (sorry about the tree) best case
              > scenario a useable amount of the energy does get stored and the sacrificial
              > fuses in the device get fried like nothing else ever has before.

              ===>>JSF 8/15/01 I'm actually worried about trying Tesla coil experiments,
              due to the expensive amount of electronic equipment I (and my *neighbors*) own.
              Have a really nice oscilloscope I'd just hate myself for burning it out. Yuk!

              >
              > On "filming" , I can now say goodbye to 8 , 16 & 35 mm film , the beginning
              > of the end for those fun to use but big & bulky pro Panasonic cameras ,
              > getting the rushes done & all the other crap involved with this annoying
              > celluloid menace , the first handheld DVD Video Camcorder has been
              > released by Hitachi ($4K or $8K AUD so it is affordable), it won't take
              > Sony & other DVD tech co's long to bring out something much better by Xmas
              > or the new year.

              ===>>JSF 8/15/01 My camcorder is a big old Panasonic, sits on shoulder, houses
              regular 2 hr VHS cassettes, has 8:1 zoom lens with macro focusing right up to
              the front element. Gets REAL nice flower closeups, unbelievably sharp.
              Recently purchased DAZZLE's Video Creator II, which permits reading in of
              regular VHS cassettes which can then be edited, sent back out to VHS cassette,
              or sent out on the internet. I have three 2 hour cassettes on my hard drive
              right now, which take up about 8 gigs of space. Works well; all of the many
              program bugs can be gotten around. Prints out nice 8 X 10 pics of single
              frames.

              Jim Farrer

              >
              > JB
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            • Jet Black
              ... My camcorder (one of a few actually) comes in a few seperate pieces ,a panasonic too I think, if you ever saw one in it s heyday you d remember it , it
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 15, 2001
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                > From Jim
                >
                >===>>JSF 8/15/01 My camcorder is a big old Panasonic, sits on shoulder, houses
                >regular 2 hr VHS cassettes, has 8:1 zoom lens with macro focusing right up to
                >the front element. Gets REAL nice flower closeups, unbelievably sharp.

                My camcorder (one of a few actually) comes in a few seperate pieces ,a
                panasonic too I think, if you ever saw one in it's heyday you'd remember
                it , it has a standalone VHS video recorder/player (with shoulder strap)
                & a hefty 12VDC NiCad battery mounted inside to power it or it can be run
                off mains power (I need to make a new NiCad as the existing one is dead) it
                has every audio/video , input/output known to man at the time RCA BNC &
                PL259 (??the old CB radio coax connectors) plus 2 x 5 pin plug in pistol
                grip video cameras with motorized zoom lenses all in good working order ,
                with a very small B&W TV monitor (flyback transformer & all) to look
                through to see what your filming , as Jim mentioned the lenses on these old
                camera's are great ,ones good for closeups the other has more of a
                telephoto lense there is also some sort of heating element inside of it so
                I handle them with care usually on tripods ,both have external microphones
                as well as assorted auxilary plugins on the camera the only bigger
                "portable" video camera I've seen was one made by sony , it had wheels on
                it & filmed in B&W
                I have held onto this and other units like my pioneer 8 track tape
                player/recorder (plus tapes), an Onkyo Quadrophonic system , Grundig all
                valve , 16 to 78 rpm "stereogram" with a very broadband radio reciever for
                a number of years now , I could not bear to throw these "clunky" classics
                away , they have no real commercial value , I just knew I had to keep them
                for "the future" as they will never make these things again.
                Tomorrow the reason for keeping them will arrive in the form of an 800Htz
                Celeron 256Mb 40Gig HD , high speed samsung CD Read Writer , 32MB TNT
                video card , probably with a DVD player and another dual video capture card
                I have .Notes will be made on the inputs & outputs of each machine
                (especially the quadrophonic amp , very interesting outputs on it ) and
                they will all get connected to this "well loaded" box in my dedicated "war
                room" in the new house.The "war room" will be totally isolated from the
                other house electricals by a 20Amp /phase 3 phase isolation
                transformer/voltage regulator I picked up as a spoil of war , when I was
                able to lift & move 80 Kilo objects over 100 meters up and down flights of
                stairs with ease.
                The end result ??? who knows , hopefully some very interesting CD's to post
                out to a few of you pending on your preferences , be them audio or visual
                , scientific or recreational.
                Lack of processing power HD space etc etc has limited , no stifled , my
                ability to create and distribute my "art" & scientific projects in a
                format & quality I'm happy with for a _long_ time , although realistically
                it's going to still take 6 months for the setup to be permanently setup &
                drive it all properly the end result should be worth it ( I have plenty of
                8 track classics but lack quality quad records) fitting them all together &
                avoiding earth hums could be a problem , but I'm hopeing the sync lock
                generator will help me join them all together and have them working in harmony

                >Recently purchased DAZZLE's Video Creator II, which permits reading in of
                >regular VHS cassettes which can then be edited, sent back out to VHS cassette,
                >or sent out on the internet. I have three 2 hour cassettes on my hard drive
                >right now, which take up about 8 gigs of space. Works well; all of the many
                >program bugs can be gotten around. Prints out nice 8 X 10 pics of single
                >frames.

                so your getting 6hrs onto 8GB , what frame rate's & sound quality are you
                recording at ?
                I know it will probably take up more space when using my newer _much_
                lighter PAL format super8 or digital video camera's as they have a higher
                resolution than NTSC.I'll take a look at the dazzle site in 12 to 18 hrs ,
                it's been a long , but fruitful day....


                JB
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