Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [usa-tesla] Disk/Motor/Dynamo and DK's Missing Homopolar Design

Expand Messages
  • Jim Farrer
    See JSF 8/32 below (8/31 after midnight). ... JSF 8/32 I m jes a little ole electronic tech WAY out of my depth here, so everything I say is with a BIG
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 31, 2000
    • 0 Attachment
      See JSF>> 8/32 below (8/31 after midnight).

      Paul Eitson wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > [eGroups] My Groups | usa-tesla Main Page | Start a new
      > group!
      >
      > James Paul Moore wrote:
      > >
      > > From: "Fred McGalliard" <frederick.b.mcgalliard@...>
      > > > On the configuration of Faraday disk motor/generators. There are two
      > > > ways to get the current out without brushes on the outer edge of the
      > > > disk. One is to generate a high frequency AC signal, and couple it
      > out
      > > > across a capacitor plate.
      > >
      > > So you'd actually be reversing the magnetic field to produce AC in the
      > > disk?
      > >
      > > This wouldn't necessarily have to be very high frequency, since
      > > the voltage is very low, a very high capacitance could probably
      > > be achieved without too much trouble.
      >
      > Suppose you had two disk stacks on one shaft of opposite charge. On an
      > entirely separate shaft would be two more disk stacks. The rotors of
      > each disk stack would face the oppositely charged disk stack on the
      > other shaft. Both of these would be suspended in oil so that a capacitor
      > was formed one each end of the two shafts. If the Tesla turbine is used
      > as a pump the oil would be circulated between the two disk stack, from
      > the outside of one disk stack to the inside of the other. This would
      > form an oil type capacitor that would store direct current. This
      > arrangement also forms the Tesla fluid gear "which can be made to
      > conform any gearing ratio" (Not an exact quote.)
      >
      > Note here that the disk stack forms one electrode of the capacitor. This
      > implies no energy loss normally associated with transferring current to
      > a capacitor.
      >
      > > > One could also do this with a disk made of a large number of narrow
      > > > plate sections, insulated from each other, and covering about half
      > the
      > > > disk face.
      > >
      > > Hmm, I'm not sure that would work. Instead of a disk rotating
      > > through a magnetic field, you get a bar of metal and magnet
      > > rotating around an axis. Without knowing how the current
      > > is generated in the first place I can't speculate much :)
      > >
      > > > A less elegant idea, place two disks on either side of a disk which
      > is
      > > > the opposite pole to the outside pole section.
      > > <snip>
      > > > The result would
      > > > be two disks with a cylindrical connection between them, a north pole
      > > > inside, and a south pole outside, with the iron return part of the
      > > > center shaft. The current would come in the center of one disk, and
      > exit
      > > > the center of the other.
      > >
      > > I rendered an image of a setup very similar to that a couple
      > > years ago and posted the URL to this list. I suppose that
      > > image is long gone by now, but I don't suppose anyone happened
      > > to save it?
      > >
      > > </>>>JPM comments start here</><<<<
      > >
      > > I think that I remember this pic, DK... and in fact I did save it, at
      > > least for a long time I had it. It was in color, and had a gold or
      > > copperish, or brassy look to it? Maybe I could find it on an ancient HD
      > > on an off line PC? I will look... I was quite impressed with it at
      > > the time. I however, did not remember that it was you who posted it.
      > > Did you ever get a chance to try this config out in a working model?
      > > >>>>
      > >
      > > How about two separate disk and magnet structures, one with
      > > positive at the hub, one with negative at the hub, arranged
      > > so that their rims make rolling contact. With a fairly thick
      > > disk and nice smooth edges the contact resistance should be
      > > low enough to allow heavy current flow.
      >
      > If both were suspended in oil would form the capacitor I mention above ,
      > this would allow a no contact rotational surface.
      >
      > > DK
      > >
      > > </>>.JPM comment<<<<
      > >
      > > Dk... this is an interesting idea... but I am afraid that it would
      > > not be practical for the simple fact that the RPMs must be extremely
      > > high to produce good results in a homopolar system, and rolling edges
      > > would be a problem at high speed, I think...
      >
      > Is some good sound material such as titanium could be used the generator
      > could be turned at up to 25,000 rpm by a Tesla turbine. Just for the
      > sake of interest, compute the current produced by a 30 foot wide ring
      > just 3 foot wide turning at only 1000 rpm. The air speed at the outside
      > edge (say if the stack formed a tesla turbine/ air pump), would be close
      > to 500 mph, at this speed the air could be ejected against a curved
      > surface possibly causing ionization and certainly a great deal of heat
      > due to the compressive force of several thousand cubic ft/min of air
      > striking a surface. . If the surface were correctly curved, the coanda
      > effect would occur.


      JSF>> 8/32
      I'm jes a little ole electronic tech WAY out of my depth here, so everything
      I say is with a BIG IF!
      I'd guess that the disk requirement is that it be a conductor, and be
      non-magnetic. I'd guess that lead would work, if not over stressed. I see no
      reason why titanium would not work, but I don't know how conductive it is.
      Some stainless steel is non-magnetic, and should work. But I have some
      stainless steel exhaust pipes on my motor home, and they are attracted by a
      magnet.

      Your idea of air hot enough to ionize at the disk rim is FASCINATING!! I
      thought at first that this ionized air could substitute for brushes, but I'm
      afraid that the voltage drop across the ionized air would be greater than
      the E out of the generator.

      Jim

      >
      > Lets go on with the idle speculation about a 30 foot wide generator if
      > you will pardon my flights of fantasy. If the outside edge of the disk
      > stack were oppositely charged from the surrounding curved (frisbee like)
      > surface it could be possible that the air passing thru the turbine would
      > take on a charge. The oppositely charged curved surface would be
      > attractive. (If I am correct in my previous assumption.)
      > >
      > > However... if the two edges were connected via some type of liquid
      > > mercury contact... then this may not be a major concern? Interesting
      > > line of thought. I never get tired of 'Homopolar Dynamo', discussions!
      > >
      > > JPM
      > >
      > > "A nation of sheep will beget a government
      > > of wolves." -- E.R. Murrow
    • Fred McGalliard
      How about pulling a good stiff roughing vacuum, and use a low temperature plasma instead of a metal to conductive fluid connection?
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 1, 2000
      • 0 Attachment
        How about pulling a good stiff roughing vacuum, and use a low
        temperature plasma instead of a metal to conductive fluid connection?
      • James P Moore
        ... relating to the method of connection between the disc or a homopolar, and the current drawing feed, to a load, I assume... ... JPM reply to FM 9-1-00
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 1, 2000
        • 0 Attachment
          </> FM... suggestion 9-1-00 concerning the 'Homopolar-Tesla-Turbine' scheme?
                            relating to the method of connection between the disc or a homopolar,
                            and the current drawing feed, to a load, I assume...
           

          How about pulling a good stiff roughing vacuum, and use a low
          temperature plasma instead of a metal to conductive fluid connection?

          </>JPM reply to FM 9-1-00 concerning his conductive suggestion.

          Fred... I LOVE THIS IDEA... but the main consideration would be
          how to keep it all cooled and vacuumized, I suppose? That might
          be where the "Tesla-Turbine" could shine out? Wonder if anyone
          has ever tried to pump a rough vacuum via a 'Tesla-Turbine'?

          Tesla had some other good equipment designs for pumping a nice
          vacuum, using some type of vibrating piston setup I think? Do
          you know anything about this equipment design. However, there
          are good rotory vacuum pumps availible at reasonable prices
          I think. I just don't know what types of volumes that they handle.

          Great 'Blue Sky' session folks... keep those creative ideas flowin!

          JPM

          "If common sense were always correct... Quantum Mechanics and
                   Relativity theory won't exist" -Fred McGalliard- (8-2000)


           
        • James P Moore
          ... JPM * 9-1-00 In the article that I posted to the list... Tesla was intrigued by a machine that he referred to as... Sir William Thompson s Current
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 1, 2000
          • 0 Attachment

            Anyone on the list know anything about ... Sir William Thomson's "current accumulator".
            Where could I find information related to this device, that so impressed Tesla, at the time of his
            writing the article " Notes on A Unipolar Dynamo". I would like to learn more about this
            "current accumulator".
            By the way... if anybody wants higher resolution tif images to match the 3 figures for Tesla's
            article, just let me know and I can fire them off your direction... later....

            JPM

            </>JPM * 9-1-00

                     In the article that I posted to the list... Tesla was intrigued by a machine
                     that he referred to as... Sir William Thompson's "Current Accumulator"
                     and at the time of the reading... I didn't realize that 'Sir William Thompson'
                     and 'Lord Kelvin'... are one in the same. He became know as 'Lord Kelvin'
                     after being knighted by the royal family. He played a large part to pushing
                     physical science forward... by his formulation of the 'Laws of Thermodynamics'

                     Here is a bit of general background on Sir William...
                     I want to read more about his 'Current Accumuator"
                    machine, if info can be found!!

            (1866-92) SIR WILLIAM THOMSON Scottish engineer, mathematician,
            and physicist,
            who profoundly influenced the scientific thought of his generation.

            Thomson, who was knighted and raised to the peerage in
            recognition of his work in engineering and physics, was
            foremost among the small group of British scientists who
            helped to lay the foundations of modern physics.

            His contributions to science included a major role
            in the development of the second law of thermodynamics;
            The absolute temperature scale (measured in Kelvins);
            the dynamical theory of heat; the mathematical analysis
            of electricity and magnetism, including the basic ideas
            for the electromagnetic theory of light; the geophysical
            determination of the age of the Earth; and fundamental
            work in hydrodynamics.

            His theoretical work on submarine telegraphy and his inventions
            for use on submarine cables aided Britain in capturing a
            preeminent place in world communication during the 19th century.


            The style and character of Thomson's scientific and
            engineering work reflected his active personality. While
            a student at the Universityof Cambridge, he was awarded
            silver sculls for winning the university championship in
            racing single-seater rowing shells.

            He was an inveterate traveller all of his life,
            spending much time on the Continent and making several
            trips to the United States.

            In later life he commuted between homes in London and
            Glasgow. Thomson risked his life several times during
            the laying of the first transatlantic cable. Thomson's
            world view was based in part on the belief that all
            phenomena that caused force--such as electricity,
            magnetism, and heat--were the result of invisible
            material in motion.

            This belief placed him in the forefront of those
            scientists who opposed the view that forces were
            produced by imponderable fluids. By the end of the
            century, however, Thomson, having persisted in his
            belief, found himself in opposition to the
            positivistic outlook that proved to be a prelude
            to 20th-century quantum mechanics and relativity.

            Consistency of world view eventually placed him counter
            to the mainstream of science. But Thomson's consistency
            enabled him to apply a few basic ideas to a number of
            areas of study. He brought together disparate areas of
            physics--heat, thermodynamics, mechanics, hydrodynamics,
            magnetism, and electricity--and thus played a all physical
            change as energy-related phenomena. 

            Thomson was also the first to suggest that there were
            mathematical analogies between kinds of energy. His
            success as a synthesizer of theories about energy places
            him in the same position in 19th-century physics as Sir
            Isaac Newton has in 17th-century physics or Albert Einstein
            in 20th-century physics. All of these great synthesizers
            prepared the ground for the next grand leap forward in science.
             
                     ******End of Brief Biography******

            Quite a thinker wouldn't you say!!! He and Tesla were friends,
            and exchanged many letters and notes, from what I have heard!
            Can you imagine the conversations between those two mental giants!
            Sounds like 'Lord Kelvin'... (sounds better than Thomson don't you
            think?)... believed in the aether, just as Tesla did!!! He would
            have had a 'Unified Theory' that linked all physical phenomena
            together in an integral way, if he had lived longer, maybe?

            So... what about Lord Kelvin's "Current Accumulator"... if anyone
            can did up some information related to it's properties and or
            designs... I certainly would appreciate this, VERY MUCH... later...

            JPM




                   " There is no natural process the only result of
                which is to cool a heat reservoir and do external work."
               <2nd Law of Thermodynamics as expressed by Lord Kelvin>
          • Jim Farrer
            Dear James: Your text was placed in an attachment file called Part 1.1--- in a nice square box, which one has to click to bring up. 1. So you know how this
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 5, 2000
            • 0 Attachment
              Dear James:

              Your text was placed in an attachment file called Part 1.1--- in a nice square
              box, which one has to click to bring up.
              1. So you know how this happened? It has happened to me a couple times and
              I know not why.

              2. When I click on the "Part 1..." up it comes, but read-only, and I cannot
              reply to it. iI can END the data file , to the screen below and then REPLY.
              But now I can't recall what I'm trying to reply to.
              Jim Farrer

              Box drawn by hand below to simulate what I see. JSF



              James P Moore wrote:
              >
              ___________________________________________
              ¦ Part 1.1Type: Plain Text (text/plain)¦
              ¦_________________________________________¦
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.