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Re: [usa-tesla] Boscovich Conference in England 22 July 2013

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  • Chris Swinson
    England ? where abouts ? Chris ... England ? where abouts ? Chris On 19/04/2013 22:54, ROGER ANDERTON wrote: I shall summarise the spill - Tesla was working
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 20, 2013
      England ? where abouts ?

      Chris



      On 19/04/2013 22:54, ROGER ANDERTON wrote:
      I shall summarise the spill - Tesla was working from Boscovich's theory. Tesla and Boscovich were from same country. Boscovich #1 scientist of that country and Tesla #2. So if you are working on Tesla physics, you ideally should know about Boscovich. This year's conference in England. I hope to be there, be pleased to meet anyone else who is able to get across the pond.
      Roger

      Boscovich Conference in England 22 July 2013

      Papers presented dealing with Boscovich's influence on: substance, modern particle physics, modern Greek science, mind and cosmology, in Slovenia, in Romania, philology, influence on Heisenberg, classical electromagnetic fields, quantum mechanics, computing, poetry and cartography.

      Previous year- Boscovich conference in Athens, and year before that in Italy.

      Papers as follows:



      Aleksandar Petrovic | University of Belgrade, Serbia

      Tomislav Petković | University of Zagreb, Faculty of Electrical Engineering and Computing, Department of Applied Physics, Croatia

      George Vlahakis | Hellenic Open University, Greece

      Marko Ursic | University of Ljubljana, Slovenia

      Stanislav Joze Juznic | ZRC SAZU, Slovenia

      Magda Stavinschi | Astronomical Institute of the Romanian Academy, Romania

      Danko Kamcevski | Independent scholar, Serbia

      Tina Domazet | University of Zagreb, Faculty of Electrical Engineering and Computing, Croatia
      Maja Zokić | University of Zagreb, Croatia


      Dragan Poljak | University of Split, FESB, Croatia
      Franjo Sokolić | University of Split, PMF, Croatia
      Mirko Jakić | University of Split, FFST, Croatia


      Peter Lukan | University of Ljubljana, Slovenia


      Nataša Ž. Mišić | Lola Institute, Serbia


      Nada Savkovic | University of Novi Sad, Serbia


      Mirela Altic | Institute of Social Sciences, Croatia




    • ROGER ANDERTON
      Hi Chris, Its part of - 24th International Congress of History of Science, Technology and Medicine at Manchester http://www.ichstm2013.com/ Roger
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 20, 2013
        Hi Chris,

        Its part of -

        24th International Congress of History of Science, Technology and Medicine


        at Manchester



        Roger









        From: Chris Swinson <list@...>
        To: usa-tesla@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, 20 April 2013, 9:14
        Subject: Re: [usa-tesla] Boscovich Conference in England 22 July 2013

         
        England ? where abouts ?

        Chris



        On 19/04/2013 22:54, ROGER ANDERTON wrote:
        I shall summarise the spill - Tesla was working from Boscovich's theory. Tesla and Boscovich were from same country. Boscovich #1 scientist of that country and Tesla #2. So if you are working on Tesla physics, you ideally should know about Boscovich. This year's conference in England. I hope to be there, be pleased to meet anyone else who is able to get across the pond.
        Roger

        Boscovich Conference in England 22 July 2013

        Papers presented dealing with Boscovich's influence on: substance, modern particle physics, modern Greek science, mind and cosmology, in Slovenia, in Romania, philology, influence on Heisenberg, classical electromagnetic fields, quantum mechanics, computing, poetry and cartography.

        Previous year- Boscovich conference in Athens, and year before that in Italy.

        Papers as follows:



        Aleksandar Petrovic | University of Belgrade, Serbia

        Tomislav Petković | University of Zagreb, Faculty of Electrical Engineering and Computing, Department of Applied Physics, Croatia

        George Vlahakis | Hellenic Open University, Greece

        Marko Ursic | University of Ljubljana, Slovenia

        Stanislav Joze Juznic | ZRC SAZU, Slovenia

        Magda Stavinschi | Astronomical Institute of the Romanian Academy, Romania

        Danko Kamcevski | Independent scholar, Serbia

        Tina Domazet | University of Zagreb, Faculty of Electrical Engineering and Computing, Croatia
        Maja Zokić | University of Zagreb, Croatia


        Dragan Poljak | University of Split, FESB, Croatia
        Franjo Sokolić | University of Split, PMF, Croatia
        Mirko Jakić | University of Split, FFST, Croatia


        Peter Lukan | University of Ljubljana, Slovenia


        Nataša Ž. Mišić | Lola Institute, Serbia


        Nada Savkovic | University of Novi Sad, Serbia


        Mirela Altic | Institute of Social Sciences, Croatia






      • Clayton Bonser
        Hello all, Just a short message by way of introduction, and a brief outline of why I m here. My name is Clay, and I have what might be called something of an
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 20, 2013

          Hello all,

          Just a short message by way of introduction, and a brief outline of why I'm here.

          My name is Clay, and I have what might be called something of an interest in all kinds of everything. My background is primarily from mechanical engineering, so physics naturally is of interest too, especially classical. Unfortunately I don't have a great deal of knowledge about electricity, especially high voltage.

          My reason for joining this group is pretty specific. I want to learn about Tesla coils, and particularly whether it is feasible and practical to use a small coil to drive a plasma globe. I know this may seem like small potatoes, but it's a starting point.

          I have found a fair few diagrams for circuits to drive plasma balls, many using flyback transformers to get the high voltage required. I have also come across circuits using the same transformers to drive Tesla coils.

          So, questions-

          Can a Tesla coil be a practical source of high voltage suitable for driving a plasma ball?  The ball I plan on driving first is about 8 inches diameter, and I think filled with helium in a partial vacuum.

          Is there a fairly simple circuit that doesn't create redundancy? By this I mean if I can use a flyback transformer to drive a globe, what would be the point of using the same component to drive a coil to drive a globe?
          With regards to the circuit, I would like if possible to avoid spark gap circuits, as I will be trying for long term reliability. I have seen a circuit using valves (electron tubes to U.S. residents) that could be do-able. However, I'm no electronics wizz by any account, and the circuit I have seen uses 120V without a transformer. Here in Australia the mains voltage is 240V and I don't know how to rework the diagram so local mains voltage could be used. Part of the reason I would consider a valve circuit is purely aesthetic. I would like to create something with a bit of a "scientific experiment" air to it. I don't like the ethos of the steampunk movement, and would prefer all parts and construction to be functional.

          I think that's enough questions for now.

          Thanks for reading, and for any help or advice in advance.

          Clay.
        • McGalliard, Frederick B
          Hi. I am a physicist, with enough EE to be dangerous. Plasma globes generally use argon, I think, because that is easily ionized and makes great long streamers
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 22, 2013

            Hi. I am a physicist, with enough EE to be dangerous.

            Plasma globes generally use argon, I think, because that is easily ionized and makes great long streamers that take longer to quench. It is also used in welding a lot, so it is pretty easy to obtain.

            The driver for the Tesla coil is an amplifier of some sort connected to a resonant transformer. I have seen quite small circuits powered by a few hundred watts provided by a fairly simple transistor circuit used to power a neon sign. Way smaller than the huge 60 Hz neon sign transformer I near killed myself with in the old days. The classic driver is an AC arc, who’s negative resistance is used to force high power oscillation at the resonant frequency of the primary/secondary. I have never quite figured out how the coupling works. The primary and secondary are pretty loosely coupled and usually on an air core. You could probably use a ferrite core but that would dramatically lower the resonant frequency and tightly couple the two coils, which would limit the peak voltage I think. The idea of loosely coupling the coils is so the secondary voltage can rise without inducing a high enough voltage in the primary to prevent effective power transfer.

            I always wondered why no one uses the resonance to produce very high currents for plasma experiments? But high voltage arcs are just so much more artistically satisfying.

             

            From: usa-tesla@yahoogroups.com [mailto:usa-tesla@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Clayton Bonser
            Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 2:24 AM
            To: usa-tesla@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [usa-tesla] New Member

             

             


            Hello all,

            Just a short message by way of introduction, and a brief outline of why I'm here.

            My name is Clay, and I have what might be called something of an interest in all kinds of everything. My background is primarily from mechanical engineering, so physics naturally is of interest too, especially classical. Unfortunately I don't have a great deal of knowledge about electricity, especially high voltage.

            My reason for joining this group is pretty specific. I want to learn about Tesla coils, and particularly whether it is feasible and practical to use a small coil to drive a plasma globe. I know this may seem like small potatoes, but it's a starting point.

            I have found a fair few diagrams for circuits to drive plasma balls, many using flyback transformers to get the high voltage required. I have also come across circuits using the same transformers to drive Tesla coils.

            So, questions-

            Can a Tesla coil be a practical source of high voltage suitable for driving a plasma ball?  The ball I plan on driving first is about 8 inches diameter, and I think filled with helium in a partial vacuum.

            Is there a fairly simple circuit that doesn't create redundancy? By this I mean if I can use a flyback transformer to drive a globe, what would be the point of using the same component to drive a coil to drive a globe?
            With regards to the circuit, I would like if possible to avoid spark gap circuits, as I will be trying for long term reliability. I have seen a circuit using valves (electron tubes to U.S. residents) that could be do-able. However, I'm no electronics wizz by any account, and the circuit I have seen uses 120V without a transformer. Here in Australia the mains voltage is 240V and I don't know how to rework the diagram so local mains voltage could be used. Part of the reason I would consider a valve circuit is purely aesthetic. I would like to create something with a bit of a "scientific experiment" air to it. I don't like the ethos of the steampunk movement, and would prefer all parts and construction to be functional.

            I think that's enough questions for now.

            Thanks for reading, and for any help or advice in advance.

            Clay.

          • Bert Hickman
            Hi Clay, ... A better source of information (from experienced Tesla Coilers and HV enthusiasts) would be the Tesla Coil Mailing List at http://www.pupman.com.
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 23, 2013
              Hi Clay,

              Clayton Bonser wrote:
              >
              > Hello all,
              >
              > Just a short message by way of introduction, and a brief outline of
              > why I'm here.
              >
              > My name is Clay, and I have what might be called something of an
              > interest in all kinds of everything. My background is primarily from
              > mechanical engineering, so physics naturally is of interest too,
              > especially classical. Unfortunately I don't have a great deal of
              > knowledge about electricity, especially high voltage.
              >
              > My reason for joining this group is pretty specific. I want to learn
              > about Tesla coils, and particularly whether it is feasible and
              > practical to use a small coil to drive a plasma globe. I know this
              > may seem like small potatoes, but it's a starting point.

              A better source of information (from experienced Tesla Coilers and HV
              enthusiasts) would be the Tesla Coil Mailing List at
              http://www.pupman.com Another possibility is the 4HV list at
              http://4hv.org However, don't ask for detailed plans or specific
              instruction on the latter list - its against their rules... :^)

              >
              > I have found a fair few diagrams for circuits to drive plasma balls,
              > many using flyback transformers to get the high voltage required. I
              > have also come across circuits using the same transformers to drive
              > Tesla coils.

              A plasma ball can be driven from virtually any high-frequency (typically
              10's of kHz - MHz) HV source. The HV source is typically an RF power
              oscillator, a small Tesla Coil, a flyback transformer and oscillator.
              You can even drive it off an ignition coil driver, but the high voltage
              pulses may give you small electrical shocks when touching the globe.

              Plasma globes are capacitively excited. The high voltage terminal is
              usually surrounded by glass, and the internal gas discharges originate
              from the opposite surface of the glass. The discharges are technically
              called "dielectric barrier discharges". The electrically-conducting
              internal discharge forms one "plate", the glass is the dielectric, and
              the excited electrode is the other plate of a small capacitor. And,
              capacitors permit RF or pulsed currents to flow between the HV terminal
              to the gases inside the plasma globe. Various combinations of noble
              gases can be used at relatively higher pressures (up to atmospheric).
              Air can be used by partially evacuating the globe. More exotic gas
              blends may add a small amount of a halogen, such as iodine or bromine.

              >
              > So, questions-
              >
              > Can a Tesla coil be a practical source of high voltage suitable for
              > driving a plasma ball?

              Yes. However, the power must be kept low to avoid overheating the glass
              (via dielectric heating) - this can cause a local hot spot that then
              punctures the glass.

              The ball I plan on driving first is about 8
              > inches diameter, and I think filled with helium in a partial vacuum.

              This should work fine. Helium is not quite as flashy as neon, xenon, or
              krypton.

              >
              > Is there a fairly simple circuit that doesn't create redundancy? By
              > this I mean if I can use a flyback transformer to drive a globe, what
              > would be the point of using the same component to drive a coil to
              > drive a globe?

              A flyback transformer will work. However, some flyback transformers may
              contain an internal HV rectifier. This must be removed or bypassed - you
              want to drive the plasma globe directly from a pulsed AC or RF source
              for best operation.

              > With regards to the circuit, I would like if possible
              > to avoid spark gap circuits, as I will be trying for long term
              > reliability.

              Your plasma globe only needs a low power (watts - 10's of watts) source.
              No need for a noisy, NO2-generating spark gap.

              > I have seen a circuit using valves (electron tubes to
              > U.S. residents) that could be do-able. However, I'm no electronics
              > wizz by any account, and the circuit I have seen uses 120V without a
              > transformer. Here in Australia the mains voltage is 240V and I don't
              > know how to rework the diagram so local mains voltage could be used.
              > Part of the reason I would consider a valve circuit is purely
              > aesthetic.

              I'd suggest powering a solid state oscillator/transformer off a "wall
              wart" - a plug-in power supply - that way, you're working with a low
              voltage DC power supply and not dangerous line voltage.

              > I would like to create something with a bit of a
              > "scientific experiment" air to it. I don't like the ethos of the
              > steampunk movement, and would prefer all parts and construction to be
              > functional.
              >
              > I think that's enough questions for now.
              >
              > Thanks for reading, and for any help or advice in advance.
              >
              > Clay.

              Some possible circuits:

              Self-excited flyback:
              http://www.powerlabs.org/flybackdriver.htm
              http://www.personal.psu.edu/sdb229/plasma%20ball%20power%20supply.html

              Timer-driven flyback:
              http://www.eleccircuit.com/efficient-flyback-driver-circuit-by-ic-555-irf510/
              http://hackerfriendly.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/arc-speaker.png
              http://pe2bz.philpem.me.uk/Power/-%20HV/Hv-801-Projects/hv-page.htm (see
              High Voltage driver near bottom of page)

              Inverter circuit:
              http://users.silenceisdefeat.net/~lgtngstk/Sites/transist/transist.htm

              Bert
              --
              Bert Hickman
              Stoneridge Engineering
              http://www.capturedlightning.com
              ***********************************************************************
              World's source for "Captured Lightning" Lichtenberg Figure sculptures,
              magnetically "shrunken" coins, and scarce/out of print technical books
              ***********************************************************************

              >
              >
            • McGalliard, Frederick B
              Hi. Bert’s input is great but I would opt, if you have the confidence in dealing with high voltages, to rectify the AC line voltage as input so the RF
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 23, 2013

                Hi. Bert’s input is great but I would opt, if you have the confidence in dealing with high voltages, to rectify the AC line voltage as input so the RF switching section has 2-300VDC to work with. A lot of PWM power supplies do that to avoid the front end transformer, which adds a lot of weight and volume. If you do not design your own, just picking one you feel confident building should do the trick. I just always liked the challenge of running off the rectified line. But it has been a while since I created a lot of smoke.

                 

                From: usa-tesla@yahoogroups.com [mailto:usa-tesla@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bert Hickman
                Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 7:35 AM
                To: usa-tesla@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [usa-tesla] New Member

                 

                 

                Hi Clay,

                Clayton Bonser wrote:

                >
                > Hello all,
                >
                > Just a short message by way of introduction, and a brief outline of
                > why I'm here.
                >
                > My name is Clay, and I have what might be called something of an
                > interest in all kinds of everything. My background is primarily from
                > mechanical engineering, so physics naturally is of interest too,
                > especially classical. Unfortunately I don't have a great deal of
                > knowledge about electricity, especially high voltage.
                >
                > My reason for joining this group is pretty specific. I want to learn
                > about Tesla coils, and particularly whether it is feasible and
                > practical to use a small coil to drive a plasma globe. I know this
                > may seem like small potatoes, but it's a starting point.

                A better source of information (from experienced Tesla Coilers and HV
                enthusiasts) would be the Tesla Coil Mailing List at
                http://www.pupman.com. Another possibility is the 4HV list at
                http://4hv.org. However, don't ask for detailed plans or specific
                instruction on the latter list - its against their rules... :^)

                >
                > I have found a fair few diagrams for circuits to drive plasma balls,
                > many using flyback transformers to get the high voltage required. I
                > have also come across circuits using the same transformers to drive
                > Tesla coils.

                A plasma ball can be driven from virtually any high-frequency (typically
                10's of kHz - MHz) HV source. The HV source is typically an RF power
                oscillator, a small Tesla Coil, a flyback transformer and oscillator.
                You can even drive it off an ignition coil driver, but the high voltage
                pulses may give you small electrical shocks when touching the globe.

                Plasma globes are capacitively excited. The high voltage terminal is
                usually surrounded by glass, and the internal gas discharges originate
                from the opposite surface of the glass. The discharges are technically
                called "dielectric barrier discharges". The electrically-conducting
                internal discharge forms one "plate", the glass is the dielectric, and
                the excited electrode is the other plate of a small capacitor. And,
                capacitors permit RF or pulsed currents to flow between the HV terminal
                to the gases inside the plasma globe. Various combinations of noble
                gases can be used at relatively higher pressures (up to atmospheric).
                Air can be used by partially evacuating the globe. More exotic gas
                blends may add a small amount of a halogen, such as iodine or bromine.

                >
                > So, questions-
                >
                > Can a Tesla coil be a practical source of high voltage suitable for
                > driving a plasma ball?

                Yes. However, the power must be kept low to avoid overheating the glass
                (via dielectric heating) - this can cause a local hot spot that then
                punctures the glass.

                The ball I plan on driving first is about 8
                > inches diameter, and I think filled with helium in a partial vacuum.

                This should work fine. Helium is not quite as flashy as neon, xenon, or
                krypton.

                >
                > Is there a fairly simple circuit that doesn't create redundancy? By
                > this I mean if I can use a flyback transformer to drive a globe, what
                > would be the point of using the same component to drive a coil to
                > drive a globe?

                A flyback transformer will work. However, some flyback transformers may
                contain an internal HV rectifier. This must be removed or bypassed - you
                want to drive the plasma globe directly from a pulsed AC or RF source
                for best operation.

                > With regards to the circuit, I would like if possible
                > to avoid spark gap circuits, as I will be trying for long term
                > reliability.

                Your plasma globe only needs a low power (watts - 10's of watts) source.
                No need for a noisy, NO2-generating spark gap.

                > I have seen a circuit using valves (electron tubes to
                > U.S. residents) that could be do-able. However, I'm no electronics
                > wizz by any account, and the circuit I have seen uses 120V without a
                > transformer. Here in Australia the mains voltage is 240V and I don't
                > know how to rework the diagram so local mains voltage could be used.
                > Part of the reason I would consider a valve circuit is purely
                > aesthetic.

                I'd suggest powering a solid state oscillator/transformer off a "wall
                wart" - a plug-in power supply - that way, you're working with a low
                voltage DC power supply and not dangerous line voltage.

                > I would like to create something with a bit of a
                > "scientific experiment" air to it. I don't like the ethos of the
                > steampunk movement, and would prefer all parts and construction to be
                > functional.
                >
                > I think that's enough questions for now.
                >
                > Thanks for reading, and for any help or advice in advance.
                >
                > Clay.

                Some possible circuits:

                Self-excited flyback:
                http://www.powerlabs.org/flybackdriver.htm
                http://www.personal.psu.edu/sdb229/plasma%20ball%20power%20supply.html

                Timer-driven flyback:
                http://www.eleccircuit.com/efficient-flyback-driver-circuit-by-ic-555-irf510/
                http://hackerfriendly.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/arc-speaker.png
                http://pe2bz.philpem.me.uk/Power/-%20HV/Hv-801-Projects/hv-page.htm (see
                High Voltage driver near bottom of page)

                Inverter circuit:
                http://users.silenceisdefeat.net/~lgtngstk/Sites/transist/transist.htm

                Bert
                --
                Bert Hickman
                Stoneridge Engineering
                http://www.capturedlightning.com
                ***********************************************************************
                World's source for "Captured Lightning" Lichtenberg Figure sculptures,
                magnetically "shrunken" coins, and scarce/out of print technical books
                ***********************************************************************

                >
                >

              • Clayton Bonser
                I d like to thank the people who have taken the time to make replies to my enquiries. To be honest though, some of the replies seem to me to be cryptic, and I
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 24, 2013
                  I'd like to thank the people who have taken the time to make replies to my enquiries.

                  To be honest though, some of the replies seem to me to be cryptic, and I can't see how they relate to my initial questions. This may be at least in part because, as I said at first, I am not very knowledgeable on the subject of electronics.

                  Even so, some of what was written has prompted me to do more research, and helped me to be more refined in what I am looking for. Since my first post I have learnt a lot about thermionic emission, and the workings of radio valves.
                  Now I have a very rudimentary understanding that I would probably need a diode and probably to triodes, although a pentode or two would be just as useful. The idea of a coil driven by valves is still attractive to me, partly because I can still remember when they were the dominant technology, and partly because I think their warm glow and the graceful curves of the older Bakelite based valves just looks good.

                  With more web searching I have found a number of different circuits, and I'm giving them consideration. Some are for driving what would be an enormous coil for my purpose, others for smaller coils. If nothing else, figuring out how each circuit achieves its ends is interesting.

                  In all, I think I might take the advice on a solid state circuit first, and look at valves further on, as they present their own high voltage and current difficulties. (One source of electrocution at a time seems a sensible path.) Probably something using a 12V D.C. power pack would make a reasonable starting point.

                  Thanks again, and if anyone wants to volunteer any further advice, for instance preferred circuits for small coils, I'd be appreciative. I will also have a look at suggested web sites and other lists too.

                  Regards,
                  Clay.
                • McGalliard, Frederick B
                  Love vacuum tubes, but they are high impedance and high voltage switches. Just because they are tough as nails, electronically that is, does not mean they can
                  Message 8 of 9 , Apr 24, 2013

                    Love vacuum tubes, but they are high impedance and high voltage switches. Just because they are tough as nails, electronically that is, does not mean they can take anything you give them though. Too much current and the plates can get red hot. Might check the ham circuit for tube oscillators that would do the trick. I do think transistors are just so much simpler though.

                     

                    From: usa-tesla@yahoogroups.com [mailto:usa-tesla@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Clayton Bonser
                    Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 3:43 AM
                    To: usa-tesla@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [usa-tesla] New Member

                     

                     

                    I'd like to thank the people who have taken the time to make replies to my enquiries.

                    To be honest though, some of the replies seem to me to be cryptic, and I can't see how they relate to my initial questions. This may be at least in part because, as I said at first, I am not very knowledgeable on the subject of electronics.

                    Even so, some of what was written has prompted me to do more research, and helped me to be more refined in what I am looking for. Since my first post I have learnt a lot about thermionic emission, and the workings of radio valves.
                    Now I have a very rudimentary understanding that I would probably need a diode and probably to triodes, although a pentode or two would be just as useful. The idea of a coil driven by valves is still attractive to me, partly because I can still remember when they were the dominant technology, and partly because I think their warm glow and the graceful curves of the older Bakelite based valves just looks good.

                    With more web searching I have found a number of different circuits, and I'm giving them consideration. Some are for driving what would be an enormous coil for my purpose, others for smaller coils. If nothing else, figuring out how each circuit achieves its ends is interesting.

                    In all, I think I might take the advice on a solid state circuit first, and look at valves further on, as they present their own high voltage and current difficulties. (One source of electrocution at a time seems a sensible path.) Probably something using a 12V D.C. power pack would make a reasonable starting point.

                    Thanks again, and if anyone wants to volunteer any further advice, for instance preferred circuits for small coils, I'd be appreciative. I will also have a look at suggested web sites and other lists too.

                    Regards,
                    Clay.

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